Bluebird
MuskieFever
Posted 6/26/2010 11:25 AM (#447390)
Subject: Bluebird




Posts: 572


Location: Maplewood, MN
This past week, we went from fishing an overcast day with light rain and post storm conditions, to the next day being a bluebird, no wind, and 80 degrees. We had no production on the bluebird skies. My question is, how do you approach bluebird conditions? The obvious is to target deeper weed edges, but what else and what presentations?
Slow Rollin
Posted 6/26/2010 11:27 AM (#447391 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: RE: Bluebird




Posts: 619


when that bluebird hit, it was not deeper, a few active fish had moved up shallow and were caught on faster moving bucktails, real shallow, less than 5 fow
Hawkeye
Posted 6/26/2010 11:39 AM (#447393 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: RE: Bluebird


Honestly, I try to avoid fishing by a set of rules. (If it’s cloudy fish shallow, if it’s sunny fish deep, etc.) The problem there is that in every circumstance there are just to many variables and too many ‘exceptions to the rule”.

I usually just try to find a pattern by trying various lures in different places, regardless of the weather too much. My experience is that Musky’s don’t play by the rules, and you just never know what or where they’ll hit. That's my take, anyway.
619musky
Posted 6/26/2010 1:18 PM (#447406 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: Re: Bluebird





Posts: 264


Muskie Fever: you should be able to come up with your own bluebird sky pattern, so man up and go out their.
Slow Rollin
Posted 6/26/2010 1:21 PM (#447407 - in reply to #447406)
Subject: Re: Bluebird




Posts: 619


hey 619 i heard they are biting on the Wi River, blue showgirl, 4 fow, on sunny days at 12:05 i had too, all in fun

Edited by Slow Rollin 6/26/2010 1:23 PM
jerryb
Posted 6/26/2010 3:03 PM (#447420 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: RE: Bluebird




Posts: 688


Location: Northern IL
Some may not adhere to any rules and I certainly could be in that category however,, there are guidelines that we can use to up our chances. 1st you must know that no matter where you are fishing on a post cold front day things are going to be tough, 2nd if you must fish then except this fact and look forward to better activity the following day. If you have something else pressing this would be a good time to take care of things.

If you have a lake that is gin clear on one side of the road and another with a dark yellow green color then fish on the dark colored lake. If you have 2 lakes with identical water color, fish the deeper one.

Understand movements if any, will be short and will probably occur late in the day, however if you got out at sun up some fish could still carry over from the previous day if they moved in the evening, the mid day in most likelihood would be time wasted, "IF" you know the lake, other wise learning new areas and investing time mapping bottom features is never time wasted.

Understand it's never a lure that catches the fish but the depth and speed the fishermen places the bait "where",,, that triggers the take.


Edited by jerryb 6/26/2010 3:07 PM
ulbian
Posted 6/26/2010 3:12 PM (#447423 - in reply to #447420)
Subject: RE: Bluebird




Posts: 1168


jerryb - 6/26/2010 4:03 PM

1st you must know that no matter where you are fishing on a post cold front day things are going to be tough




I disagree with this statement. I know a handful of lakes that are better on post frontal days than they are when fronts are approaching. Those days of "muskie weather" you go someplace else. I had this conversation with a very accomplished angler this past week about one body of water in particular. We had a good laugh about how you throw all of these so called "rules" out the window regarding this lake.

Why let an assumption that things will be tough on a post frontal day keep you off the water? Not all fish are going to eat when storms are moving in. Not all will be shut right down after fronts have moved through. Don't let a widely accepted theory that is too often passed along as "fact" discourage you from fishing post frontal conditions. Fish are catchable on these days. It just requires you to think a little bit and get away from the "monkey see, monkey do mentality."
Slow Rollin
Posted 6/26/2010 3:41 PM (#447425 - in reply to #447423)
Subject: RE: Bluebird




Posts: 619


ulbian - 6/26/2010 3:12 PM

jerryb - 6/26/2010 4:03 PM

1st you must know that no matter where you are fishing on a post cold front day things are going to be tough




I disagree with this statement. I know a handful of lakes that are better on post frontal days than they are when fronts are approaching. Those days of "muskie weather" you go someplace else. I had this conversation with a very accomplished angler this past week about one body of water in particular. We had a good laugh about how you throw all of these so called "rules" out the window regarding this lake.

Why let an assumption that things will be tough on a post frontal day keep you off the water? Not all fish are going to eat when storms are moving in. Not all will be shut right down after fronts have moved through. Don't let a widely accepted theory that is too often passed along as "fact" discourage you from fishing post frontal conditions. Fish are catchable on these days. It just requires you to think a little bit and get away from the "monkey see, monkey do mentality."


do you put cowbells away on those tougher days?
ulbian
Posted 6/26/2010 5:00 PM (#447430 - in reply to #447425)
Subject: Re: Bluebird




Posts: 1168


I never use cowbells on "tougher" or "easier" days. I don't throw bucktails of any kind. Anyone who has ever fished with me will tell you that. Spinnerbaits are a different story, but inline bucktails...nope.
jerryb
Posted 6/26/2010 5:09 PM (#447432 - in reply to #447423)
Subject: RE: Bluebird




Posts: 688


Location: Northern IL
Well Bob,

You don't mention the lake, 's's but let me assure you if you catch any fish on any kind of regular basis, post frontal conditions, and let me be perfectly clear they COULD be SPANKED,, big time before the front moves through. Because A fish is a fish is a fish, north, south, east, or west they ALL react the same, it's nothing special You or any angler does do to make them go.

Give me the Lakes and I'll be happy to send a few guys over to put a woopen on that lake.

Edited by jerryb 6/26/2010 5:11 PM
MuskieFever
Posted 6/26/2010 5:41 PM (#447436 - in reply to #447406)
Subject: Re: Bluebird




Posts: 572


Location: Maplewood, MN
619musky - 6/26/2010 1:18 PM

Muskie Fever: you should be able to come up with your own bluebird sky pattern, so man up and go out their.


learn how to spell 'there' then we'll talk.

JM
Posted 6/26/2010 7:00 PM (#447440 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: RE: Bluebird


Tough crowd here on this one. J Some variables on the Bluebird sky: sometimes it’s a post-frontal thing, but not always. Sometimes it’s just a stable weather clear sunny sky. Then there’s the particular lake you happen to be on…could be dark water, or might be reasonably clear water. The point is, I do different things in different situations. Might even depend on what time of year it is. Not trying to talk down on you, MuskieFever, but depending what the circumstances are can lead to different approaches in fishing it.

What you describe in your original post doesn’t sound like a cold front sky. Just sounds like a clear, sunny, early summer sky that showed up after a few days of clouds and rain moved out. I’ve had some trips where the bite was decent during 3-4 cloudy days, then shut down a lot the day when the sun showed up. Seems like the best fishing usually happens during prolonged stable periods. And the bite can slow down when the changes happen. (But…sure, not always.)

I approach days like you’re describing pretty similar to Bass fishing. I hit the shorelines with bucktails and topwaters early and late, and then try deeper weed edges and stump fields with lures like Big Game Twitchbaits, Squirrley Jakes and other cranks during the mid-day. Depending on the lake and the fish’s mood that’s kind of my go-to pattern.

MuskieFever
Posted 6/26/2010 9:31 PM (#447455 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: Re: Bluebird




Posts: 572


Location: Maplewood, MN
thanks for the input. by the way, me and 619 are buds, just messin around
619musky
Posted 6/27/2010 2:25 PM (#447524 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: Re: Bluebird





Posts: 264


Oddly enough, i do the best on the clearest lake i fish on the brightest days, chrome blades seem to work best in the clearest water reflecting the most sunlight, and burning them seems to be the ticket on bluebird days.
ulbian
Posted 6/27/2010 7:12 PM (#447559 - in reply to #447432)
Subject: RE: Bluebird




Posts: 1168


jerryb - 6/26/2010 6:09 PM

Well Bob,

You don't mention the lake, 's's but let me assure you if you catch any fish on any kind of regular basis, post frontal conditions, and let me be perfectly clear they COULD be SPANKED,, big time before the front moves through. Because A fish is a fish is a fish, north, south, east, or west they ALL react the same, it's nothing special You or any angler does do to make them go.

Give me the Lakes and I'll be happy to send a few guys over to put a woopen on that lake.


Well Jerry,

Let me assure you if you catch any fish on any kind of regular basis, pre frontal conditions, and let me be perfectly clear they COULD be SPANKED,, big time....

You like to think that there is a certain set of rules that can be applied to every body of water at any time, anywhere. Why then does Pete Maina refer in one of his books to a "Lake Opposite" where you do the opposite of what you think you should be doing?

Your first post on this thread had you writing that fish not being active on post frontal bluebird days is an absolute. How do you figure? The animal kingdom is not ruled by a set of absolutes. Muskies are part of the animal kingdom. Baitfish are part of the animal kingdom. If these absolutes apply like you suggest they do then why even bother fishing or hunting in certain conditions?

This "monkey see, monkey do" mentality makes me laugh. You know, the type of mindset that limits the weak minded to never thinking against the grain or outside of the box. Muskies will only eat surface baits when the temps are in a certain range. You have to fish windblown areas, non windblown areas will never have fish. I'm sorry but I just can't allow myself to fall prey to a type of thinking where other possibilities outside of these widely accepted "rules" exist.

The funny part of this to me is that there are two fisheries within 20 minutes of me that act totally different and the locals know this. On pre-frontal days you won't see many locals at all on Lake A, but instead they will be on Lake B because it follows along more closely with what you "should" be doing. On post frontal bluebird sky days the locals are hammering the crap out of Lake A but will avoid Lake B at all costs. The fish might have a cross regional sharing of characteristics but is every body of water you have ever fished on identical? Is LOTW the same as Melton Hill? Is Green Bay the same as the WI River? No two muskie fisheries are the same...some can be very similar but no two muskie lakes or rivers are created equally. To think that they all, from Cave Run, Melton Hill, Green River, Lake St. Clair, Green Bay, Moen Chain, etc. can be approached the exact same way is just plain foolish.



RyanJoz
Posted 6/27/2010 10:06 PM (#447579 - in reply to #447559)
Subject: RE: Bluebird




Posts: 1711


Location: Mt. Zion, IL
ulbian - 6/27/2010 7:12 PM

To think that they all, from Cave Run, Melton Hill, Green River, Lake St. Clair, Green Bay, Moen Chain, etc. can be approached the exact same way is just plain foolish.



The method of EFFECTIVELY using spoonplugs to locate active fish and fish producing structures can be applied anywhere, anytime.

Don't knock it til you try it. My father and I have had many multiple fish days using this method of locating active fish, and fish producing structures. We have used it so intensively on some lakes that about 90% of the time we can tell you where the fish will be and how they move. Jerry is right my friend.
BenR
Posted 6/27/2010 10:47 PM (#447583 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: Re: Bluebird


If this is true, why don't spoonpluggers win tournaments or catch records? It would seem pretty simple according to you folks....BR
RyanJoz
Posted 6/28/2010 8:48 AM (#447622 - in reply to #447583)
Subject: Re: Bluebird




Posts: 1711


Location: Mt. Zion, IL
BenR - 6/27/2010 10:47 PM

If this is true, why don't spoonpluggers win tournaments or catch records? It would seem pretty simple according to you folks....BR


Because there are so few that do it is the best non-arrogant answer I can come up with. Your statement is very absolute. I choose not to fish tournaments because of how they are run/the attitude of those involved. That is a personal choice of mine, maybe others have the same opinion, I do not know, but a statement like yours is very childish.
musky-skunk
Posted 6/28/2010 9:06 AM (#447626 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: RE: Bluebird





Posts: 785


Don't make us send you boys to your rooms! We wouldn't want to have to spank you or issue time outs or something lol. Everyone has his or her own opinion based on there experience... which is the point of these forums... to share those experiences in hopes of learning something new. I personally love bluebird days with no wind... it makes for a really good night bite sometimes... but obviously not always. In the daytime I generally avoid it and do my scouting on lakes until evening. But thats just me.
Makintrax73
Posted 6/28/2010 9:19 AM (#447627 - in reply to #447622)
Subject: Re: Bluebird





Posts: 156


RyanJoz - 6/28/2010 8:48 AM

BenR - 6/27/2010 10:47 PM

If this is true, why don't spoonpluggers win tournaments or catch records? It would seem pretty simple according to you folks....BR


Because there are so few that do it is the best non-arrogant answer I can come up with. Your statement is very absolute. I choose not to fish tournaments because of how they are run/the attitude of those involved. That is a personal choice of mine, maybe others have the same opinion, I do not know, but a statement like yours is very childish.


Ryan, I didn't take the question as childish at all. There is a ton of money in winning tournaments. If there was a better method of fishing out there I would think that someone out there would be taking advantage of it. I don't have a good understanding of the method so maybe some are using the method just not the lure? Anyway I think the question is a valid point for discussion.
BenR
Posted 6/28/2010 9:37 AM (#447630 - in reply to #447622)
Subject: Re: Bluebird


RyanJoz - 6/28/2010 8:48 AM

BenR - 6/27/2010 10:47 PM

If this is true, why don't spoonpluggers win tournaments or catch records? It would seem pretty simple according to you folks....BR


Because there are so few that do it is the best non-arrogant answer I can come up with. Your statement is very absolute. I choose not to fish tournaments because of how they are run/the attitude of those involved. That is a personal choice of mine, maybe others have the same opinion, I do not know, but a statement like yours is very childish.


It is a valid question and it goes towards all types of fish not just muskies. Your response did seem to hint of a touched nerve and perhaps a "childish" flavor to it. I also did not ask why you don't fish tournaments, I asked about spoonpluggers...BR
RyanJoz
Posted 6/28/2010 9:39 AM (#447632 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: Re: Bluebird




Posts: 1711


Location: Mt. Zion, IL
First, sorry if I seemed irritated but I am always catching crap from people for spoonplugging, especially from tournament anglers (both bass and muskies).

It is long hard work and it can be very boring and that is really why i think most people don't do it. I am not saying casting or trolling is harder here so please don't take it that way.

You are constantly getting hung up on snags and such, and you get snagged probably 20-30 times before you catch one fish. Until a few years ago we used to lose lures quite regularly until a fellow spoonplugger showed us his lure retriever (probably 4-5 lures/day). We have located some amazing pieces of structure for bass fishing where we average 70 to 150 fish days. Some of the fish are small, some of the schools are very large. Depending on the feeding cycle, one school may be active and another inactive. The lake i fish for bass we have used the spoonplugging method so meticulously that we don't have to use it anymore except during periods of inactivity to locate stragglers. Come to central IL and I will show you, with largemouth bass, how effective this method has been for us. I have adapted the method (heavier gear, leaders, etc) for muskies and have been successful on Shelbyville, and Kinkaid. I have had about a dozen 6 fish days on Shelbyville, and even an 11 fish day (not counting below the spillway at Shelbyville). Kinkaid has yielded a few 4 fish days, but I am still trying to deal with the weeds and such there.
Simple fisherman
Posted 6/28/2010 4:30 PM (#447712 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: Re: Bluebird




Posts: 69


Location: Pittsburgh
Musky fever here are some of my thoughts I use while fishing and you or anybody else can certainly agree or disagree with me. first the rules.

Rule #1 Dont listen in Grammar class as a lad
Rule #2 Fishing can be enjoyable any calendar day
Rule#3 Buck Perrys Guidelines are not rules and he said so.They are Guidelines to Catching fish
Rule #4 If you want to catch more fish follow Rule #3
Rule #5 Spoonplugs are not the only lures that work
Rule #6 Post frontal fishing is always tougher.
Rule #7 Any day fishing is a great day if you let it be
Rule #8 ALL fisherman LIE but me.
Rule #9 All successful fisherman are spoonpluggers they just dont use spoonplugs or call themselves such but they sure as heck fish somewhere within the guidelines on most days.
Rule #10 If you fish any flood control impoundments with a clean bottom use the 800s even if you shortline.
Rule #11 Never get in a internet hullabaloo with BenR
MuskieFever
Posted 6/28/2010 4:58 PM (#447717 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: Re: Bluebird




Posts: 572


Location: Maplewood, MN
alright this is gettin outta hand. i was askin what people do for their own bluebird days. not all these #*^@ battles on if post frontal is better or worse. i enjoy fishing, everyone on here does. i was simply asking how to up your odds of catching if forced to fish a bluebird
Simple fisherman
Posted 6/28/2010 5:39 PM (#447728 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: Re: Bluebird




Posts: 69


Location: Pittsburgh
Sorry Muskie Fever didnt mean to give the impression of argument. Mostly tongue in cheek to my replies here. But cant seem to express this on here just not internet savy not a young man. to answer your question Buck perry really did make me a better fisherman and his guidelines truly are worth alook.
dtaijo174
Posted 6/28/2010 6:15 PM (#447736 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: Re: Bluebird





Posts: 1169


Location: New Hope MN
I fish the off of the deep edge first, then turn around and fish edge, then over the structure. I keep doing this till i start getting action. After 2 follows or so, I'll stick to the depth/structure that they followed from. Probably not the best method out there, but that's what I do and it's worked well. In post coldfronts on the few lakes i fish, I find most suspended off the structure or on the deepest edge, but not always.
jerryb
Posted 6/28/2010 9:19 PM (#447783 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: RE: Bluebird




Posts: 688


Location: Northern IL
Wish I had some time to respond but heading out on a trip, just got back from one and landed 34 muskie to 48" and about a 100 walleye to 29" and others stuff,,,, doing that monkey see thing, that will be the day!! What a frickin joke!!!!
Kingfisher
Posted 6/29/2010 3:52 PM (#447931 - in reply to #447420)
Subject: RE: Bluebird




Posts: 1106


Location: Muskegon Michigan
jerryb - 6/26/2010 4:03 PM

Some may not adhere to any rules and I certainly could be in that category however,, there are guidelines that we can use to up our chances. 1st you must know that no matter where you are fishing on a post cold front day things are going to be tough, 2nd if you must fish then except this fact and look forward to better activity the following day. If you have something else pressing this would be a good time to take care of things.

If you have a lake that is gin clear on one side of the road and another with a dark yellow green color then fish on the dark colored lake. If you have 2 lakes with identical water color, fish the deeper one.

Understand movements if any, will be short and will probably occur late in the day, however if you got out at sun up some fish could still carry over from the previous day if they moved in the evening, the mid day in most likelihood would be time wasted, "IF" you know the lake, other wise learning new areas and investing time mapping bottom features is never time wasted.

Understand it's never a lure that catches the fish but the depth and speed the fishermen places the bait "where",,, that triggers the take.


That is pretty well said. For me fishing on Bluebird days has been some of my best times on the water. However we were trolling most of those times and fishing St. Clair. Planer boards have a way of dealing with those spooky fish. However here are some other things to do when its bluebird on clear water.

Use very natural colors like coppers and Browns,tans and browns and just plain browns. Try to fish the low light times like the first hour of light and the last hour of light. Make long casts to keep yourself away from wary fish. Fish inside of heavy cover like dense weeds using weedless jigs and spinnerbaits. Fish deep for those fish laying on the bottom. Troll plain and simple. Troll with planer boards and watch your numbers go up. I got my personal best casting during the morning of a Bluebird day. That same day we caught three other mid 40 inch fish on the same tan and brown lure. We casted to dense Cabbage beds and twitched these fish into striking. That day we got two in the morning and two in the evening. We could have slept from 11 am till 5 pm. and probably should have .. Also think about night fishing during bluebird times. Hope this helps. Mike
Slow Rollin
Posted 7/2/2010 3:19 PM (#448386 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: RE: Bluebird




Posts: 619


what is spoonplugging?
dway
Posted 7/2/2010 6:19 PM (#448395 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: RE: Bluebird




Posts: 107


Location: central illinois
I don't know what spoonplugging is either. Is it just jigging a spoon? Where the hell have I been? I don't believe I've even read any articles or seen any shows about this technique, honestly.
RyanJoz
Posted 7/2/2010 8:33 PM (#448405 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: Re: Bluebird




Posts: 1711


Location: Mt. Zion, IL
to learn about spoonplugging, one must read the book by Buck Perry titled "Spoonplugging, guide to lunker catches". more info can be found if you google spoonplugging.
Kingfisher
Posted 7/3/2010 1:54 PM (#448459 - in reply to #448405)
Subject: Re: Bluebird




Posts: 1106


Location: Muskegon Michigan
Yesterday , bluebird skies and only light winds. Went 8 for 14 on St. Clair with most fish coming on natural browns and Perch patterns. Wind picked up towards evening and the wife got her 4th 50 inch fish. Get this on a bluebird Perch ( new color for us at Talonz)


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jerryb
Posted 7/6/2010 9:51 PM (#448800 - in reply to #448459)
Subject: Re: Bluebird




Posts: 688


Location: Northern IL
Nice job Mike!

My good friend John Bales just posted this http://www.spoonplug.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1010 on the spoonpluggers site and I thought it was right on the money, for those of who have never heard of Buck Perry.

John is probably one of the best at "doing" what it takes and one who best understands what Mr. Perry was teaching, (many claim to but very few actually do). Buck said that "Al Lindner was the best spoonplugger in the country" and that is probably true, but John Bales and others most who rarely are heard from, internet, are right there as well.

Ben, there is nothing simple or easy about any success, goes with out saying. However Mr. Perry spells out a set of guidelines in his teachings that will increase your catches, 'IF" you stick to them. I'll tell ya I came into this fishing thing 15 years ago not knowing a stinking thing. I too thought color mattered, what a dummy I was... joke,, So I tell you this with all humility and say it doesn't take any special person to catch 1500+ muskie fishing for them about 1/2 the year,, Also I know there are some who have never read a single word or they don't claim too, or heard of Mr. Perry and they catch a lot of really big fish. But I grantee that any good knowledgeable spoonplugger who went along with any such person could spell out to the letter "why" they are being successful and can point right to it in Buck's material.

Sorry MF never meant for this to get off track, but your question does not have a simple answer so if you can plan your fishing around the weather do so, if not be ready to put zeros in your log.

Bob, the foolish one here...
"Is LOTW the same as Melton Hill? Is Green Bay the same as the WI River? No two muskie fisheries are the same...some can be very similar but no two muskie lakes or rivers are created equally. To think that they all, from Cave Run, Melton Hill, Green River, Lake St. Clair, Green Bay, Moen Chain, etc. can be approached the exact same way is just plain foolish."

I know these lakes, in fact I've fished just about all of them, plus another 100 or so, but you missed the point buddy, I never said, let me say this right, "Buck" never said any two bodies of water were the same???? or should we look at them the exact same, did you ever read the section on lake types? H%ll there are never 2 days the same.... You certainly can't fish a 24' thermocline at Cave Run in University bay. Or could you troll a 53' breakline in November at Lotw the same way in St. Clair? But you may fish in a very similar way Green Bay and St. Clair and Lotw and Cave Run depending on the time of the year.

But comments that focus on the "how" will always get the fishermen into trouble! The how is the easy part of catching a fish. The focus should 99.99% of the time be on the "where", what depth and at what speed and learning what "A" fish will do and what he won't, "most of the time" with the conditions we are faced with at the time. Fish are fish and there are very few differences, yes there are slight differences but they all react to stimuli, some for longer periods of time, some shorter but it's up to the fishermen to get good enough at identifying the situation.

We should take in as much information as available before launching the boat, "if" we decide a lake is worthy of our time, believe it or not all lakes are worth fishing. We then look at the features in the lake and after a day on the water again reevaluate, if more time is needed so be it. It's an on going learning experience. Buck said it took him on average 4 days to put a lake in his back pocket, it take the rest of us,,, longer.

Ryan sent me a pm or email, haven't fished Shelbyville but a hand full of times, but Kinkaid I do know is loaded, a few years back we had a 22 muskie day there and 96 in three consecutive weekends, the 7 hours back and forth was a pain but the kids had a good time.

Enjoy John's comments, it's good!
djwilliams
Posted 7/8/2010 11:37 AM (#449012 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: RE: Bluebird




Posts: 767


Location: Ames, Iowa
Get out early in the morning or in the evening, or get in the weeds- otherwise... troll.
Will Schultz
Posted 7/8/2010 1:47 PM (#449035 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: Re: Bluebird





Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Anything ever written on structure fishing, by anyone other than Buck Perry, is taken from his teaching. You can tell those who write/talk that aren't familiar with correct terminology. For instance, structure isn't cover and cover isn't structure but you need cover to have good structure, it makes me cringe when someone calls weeds "structure".

http://spoonplug.net/
jerryb
Posted 7/8/2010 10:16 PM (#449127 - in reply to #449035)
Subject: Re: Bluebird




Posts: 688


Location: Northern IL
Will,
Let me help you out just a tad, yes you are correct "Anything ever written on structure fishing by anyone other than Buck Perry, (has) taken (It) from his teachings". This is a fact! However as Mr. Perry has written in order for a structure to be good it must lead all the way from the shallows to the deepest water in the area, however again some of the "best" structure situations exists without a single blade of grass or cover, so no, a structure situation does not need "cover" to make it productive, just a route for the fish to follow.

And yes I too cringe, mostly laugh out loud.. when the TV/ writers or guide says they know what structure is. I once attended a seminar titled "Structure" by a well known book writer/ speaker and so called deep thinker in the industry, name will remain anonymous for his own protection, Remember Todd? He started his talk by asking if anyone in the audience knew of Buck Perry? Very few if any besides myself raised their hands, he had a room full of naive participants, if I may say "monkey sees monkey do" musky fishermen in the palm of his hand, he went on to tell this group of how bait, and wind, and the moon, and the color of their bait was "structure", I was so discussed I walked out thinking these guys will never understand....... with this much confusion being pushed on them. As I said I came into this fishing thing not knowing a thing and I was willing to learn as long as I felt it fell into the realm of common sense.

Edited by jerryb 7/8/2010 11:04 PM
HomeTime
Posted 7/9/2010 6:17 AM (#449148 - in reply to #447390)
Subject: Re: Bluebird





Posts: 247


Location: Uxbridge Ontario
Super sunny calm hot days have yielded some pretty good results for us over the years on a range of different baits. What seems to stay consistent on the super clear water I fish is Black or Perch. Typically smaller fish always go for the faster moving blade baits (inline and spinners) and the big fish hit slow moving presentations like Hell Hounds and most commonly Suicks. I find that the fish on these days are usually not very aggressive and take their time deciding if they want to bite. Jerking in the suick, most often than not you watch the muskie stalk the bait up to about 8-10 ft from the boat and they just nip the bait on the pause. Weighted suicks that are water logged and stay suspended seem to be key as the bait stays in their face on the pause. Just my experience, but between me and a few other buddies, we have nailed about 10 50"+ fish on these days in the last 2 years. But the fishing is usually quiet slow and sighting is less than par.

Edited by HomeTime 7/9/2010 6:18 AM
Kingfisher
Posted 7/16/2010 9:15 AM (#450241 - in reply to #448800)
Subject: Re: Bluebird




Posts: 1106


Location: Muskegon Michigan
jerryb - 7/6/2010 10:51 PM

Nice job Mike!


I'll tell ya I came into this fishing thing 15 years ago not knowing a stinking thing. I too thought color mattered, what a dummy I was... joke,, So I tell you this with all humility and say it doesn't take any special person to catch 1500+ muskie fishing for them about 1/2 the year,,

I dont know if you are kidding or not with that statement. I can assure you color does matter on many systems. Lakes like St. Clair where all your baits are running in basic formation at the same depth each day one color seems to shine over the others. Maybe its contrast but it still means difference in color even if its black and white. Gold blade versus Nickle blades etc. Brite yellows vs. dark browns etc. Perch vs 9$bass etc. Color matters and anyone telling you otherwise is misleading you. Some of best Muskie fishermen in world buy lures from me and they have definite preferences in color. Another thing I find true is that in crank baits the type of body is regional. For instance Shad style lures in the 4 to 6 inch range are preferred in southern states like Ohio, Indiana , southern Illinois and Kentucky where longer body styles work better in northern states like Michigan and Wisconsin.

As far as structure goes? Its all structure to me if it holds fish. Rocks, weeds, drops, holes, a log on the bottom or a wreck. Anything that changes the bottom contour is of interest to me. Spoonplugging , hmm I have been accused of spoonplugging before. Buck said fish are either shallow , deep or somewhere inbetween. Now there's a brilliant statement. Perry used no bow line and different size spoon plugs to test depth and maintain certain depth but it was and is today an outdated tactic which by your own admission gets you snagged up a lot. Not my cup of tea. I prefer to fish above them not on the bottom. Today we have GPS, sonar with side imaging and water temp sensors that we can use to find and target fish. I care not who invented structure fishing but care more today about how fish relate to structure, cover and temperature layers. To me weeds, breaks, drops and suspended fish all figure into my day on the water. Buck perry was was a good teacher in his day and his stuff still works but Ill take my electronics and crankbaits any day over no bow line and spoon plugs. Been there done that.

The last part of the statement is pure rubbish. Anyone can catch 1500 plus muskies fishing for them half the year? Thats averaging 150 fish per year for ten years. Thats misinformation at its best. Only accomplished anglers will ever top 1000 muskies in a life time. The exception to that is the fisherman who targets lakes like Fluke Lake in Ontario where where anyone can catch 10 fish in one day.

I read Bucks book. It was a good read. I learned a few things and added to what I already knew and what I am still learning Im a pretty good fisherman. So this post was about Blue bird days and how to catch fish in those conditions. I posted pictures of our catch on a bluebird day. W e trolled natural colors using planer boards to get our lures away from the boat. On blue bird days with clear water and light winds fish tend to be boat shy which is why the planer boards work so good. Today I would like to know who invented Planer boards as that is the man who put those fish in my boat. Mike