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Posts: 1185
Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | The Wisconsin Conservation Congress Hearings are this next Monday, April 12, 2010 at 7pm
The hearings are held in each county statewide. Here is the list of locations:
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/nrboard/congress/spring_hearings/2010/2010%20...
You don't have to stay for the whole hearing process and question reading. You can get there early, vote and leave, please make sure to look at the write in votes which will be posted on the wall at the hearings. If you have the time and patience, staying for the whole thing and voicing support for the musky issues would be good.
The big musky issue is on the Conservation Congress Vote Section, the property owners are asking for putting the Pelican Lake size limit back to 34 inches from the 50" we got passed just a couple of years ago. It is most important to get this voted down in Oneida County. If you can make the trip, please go there. At very least go to a hearing anywhere in the state and get your vote in. Voicing your support in a thought out PC manner when they read the question goes a long way with the voters also. I will be making my statement at the Winnebago hearings and the C & R Musky Club members will be covering the other local counties.
You don't have to attend in the county you reside in.
Other musky questions are to keep the 45" size limit on Little Saint Germain and question # 94, to change the 34 inch mimimun length on Whitefish Lake to 50 inches. Question # 96, states that property owners on Lake Redstone want to change the mimimun from 40 inches to 50 inches.
Here is a copy of the hearing book:
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/nrboard/congress/spring_hearings/2010/2010%20... |
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Location: APPLETON, WI | thanks for the heads up, Joe. I'll plan on attending one of the meetings... probably the one here in Winnebago County. |
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Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Please vote NO to all of these!! There are way too many smaller lakes that will be impacted by allowing trolling. I don't think allowing trolling on all lakes is the way to go.
QUESTIONS 24, 25, 26 & 27 – Motor trolling in Ashland, Iron, Price and Sawyer Counties Currently motor trolling is only allowed on the Kakagon River and sloughs in Ashland County, Pike Lake and Round Lake in Price County, and Chetac, Grindstone, Lac Courte Oreilles, Nelson, Round, Whitefish and Windigo Lakes in Sawyer County. Opening all waters in Ashland, Iron, Price and Sawyer Counties would allow motor trolling in approximately 700 additional waters. Prohibitions on motor trolling are socially-driven and have been handled by the Department of Natural Resources on a county-by-county basis in line with local preference. Currently motor trolling is allowed county-wide in 18 of the state’s 72 counties. Motor trolling poses no other biological threat to muskellunge, walleye, or any other species than conventional angling, and the Department of Natural Resources endorses removal of motor trolling prohibitions wherever that removal is locally supported.
Do you favor allowing motor trolling in all waters in Ashland County? 24. YES _______ NO ______
Do you favor allowing motor trolling in all waters in Iron County, excluding Etna, Grey, Lost, Minette, Oriole, Pardee and Sherman lakes, which straddle the Iron-Vilas County line? 25. YES _______ NO ______
Do you favor allowing motor trolling in all waters in Price County? 26. YES ______ NO ______
Do you favor allowing motor trolling in all waters in Sawyer County? 27. YES ______ NO ______ |
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| Honestly, I'd like to see more trolling allowed in waters in WI. You feel small lakes will be impacted by trolling? Impacted how? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Guest - 4/6/2010 8:45 AM
Honestly, I'd like to see more trolling allowed in waters in WI. You feel small lakes will be impacted by trolling? Impacted how?
Steve/Slamr ... is there a place where i can go and search all of my posts that were deleted so that i can copy and paste into the argument that's about to happen on this thread? LOL
just got a boat with a kicker ... somebody shoot me if i ever use it!!! |
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Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | It's purely selfish on my part! Some of these smaller flowages and lakes are nothing but a widening of a river. There just isn't room for casters and trollers. I own a cabin on a 500 acre flowage that is really two narrow 250 acre basins. In the legal backtrolling days, there were many problems with people working a drift accross a piece of structure only to have a troller basically pass you, cut you off, and troll accross the structure you were working. Not cool in my books. I would support trolling on bodies of water over 1000 acres, but not ALL lakes. |
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Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Hey Sled!!
I was thinking the same thing!! I've got the arguement going on 2 boards already and I'm waiting for the 3rd to start anytime now!!
Edited by KenK 4/6/2010 9:01 AM
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| Is it even an option to just 'vote in' the right to troll in some of these northeastern counties? It was my understanding that the regulations of counties in the Ceded Territories are somewhat governed by Tribal agreements. So, if part of that agreement is "no trolling", then can it just be voted on and changed? Anybody up to date and clear on that care to share? |
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Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Hawkeye,
It's on the official ballot, so I don't think that Tribal aggreements affect hook and liners rights to troll. The agreements with the tribes are more geared toward the safe-harvest levels of a lake. If the tribe spears more, it just lowers the bag limit for other anglers. |
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Location: APPLETON, WI | For me, personally... I'll probably vote - NO.
'm pretty much a die-hard caster. Always have been and I feel more "connected" in a way to my fishing experience. Driving around aimlessly on the lake with a couple of lures behind the boat... well, I don't know... I guess I don't really see the skill in that. Again, for me, personally... I'd rather feel more connected to the experience and cast.
And on a smaller body of water, it is a bit frustrating when attempting to work an area by casting and you're constantly being strong-armed by a couple of guys trolling. Seems like once the kicker motors are in operation, all functional boating etiquette goes right out the window. But that's just my experience.
Edited by PSYS 4/6/2010 12:46 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, WI | The following is what I plan to present at the hearings next week, my parents have owned property on Pelican Lake since the early 60s, in the town of Enterprise. There is NO big LOCAL effort to lower the size limit. The Question is very misleading and regarding the Lake Association and Town of Schoepke flat out FALSE. It is very disheartening to me that this question was worded the way it was without any supporting documentation.
We need to show up in MASS to vote this down, it sets a VERY BAD precedence if this is allowed to advance to the next step. WE NEED TO STOP IT NOW!!!! Please GO VOTE! All previous increases could be in jeopardy!
Nail A Pig!
Mike
Musky Resolution Position Paper, Pelican Lake, 2005
Pelican Lake in Oneida County has proven to be a high-quality musky fishery, with a long history of producing quality fish. The lake is located in an area that receives heavy fishing pressure, an area average of 34 angler-hours/acres/year. The last creel survey on Pelican Lake showed it to have nearly double that pressure, with 62 angler-hours/acre/year. For years Pelican Lake musky populations were sustained through natural reproduction, supplemented with stocking. (Over 20,000 fingerling, an average of 1,549 per year, from 1985 through 1998.) The supplemental stocking program was suspended in 1998, forcing the lake to rely on natural recruitment to sustain the entire population. Considering stocking has been halted, spring spearing, and the large number of anglers visiting the lake, long touted as “The Home of the Musky,” there is concern that the musky population may be adversely affected. With the WDNR’s limited budget and manpower, they will not be able to complete a musky population survey until 2011 & 2012, this is14 years after the stocking program was halted. This has the potential of creating 14 years of recruitment problems, an entire generation of musky.
With its vast forage base, Pelican Lake has the potential to produce excellent musky. The goal is to protect these fish to a larger size, allowing them more opportunity to pass on their quality genes. These fish would be protected through their most prolific spawning years. This would maintain or improve the musky fishing without negatively impacting other species, as has proven to be the case for many other lakes in northern WI, MN, and Canada. It would also improve the chances the lake will sustain a naturally reproducing population of musky. All the while giving anglers the opportunity to catch and release the fish as they grow.
We have the chance to protect and improve the fishing on Pelican Lake for everyone, and local anglers, young and old, that have been surveyed are very excited about the prospect of a better, self-sustaining, musky fishery. Maintaining Pelican Lake as a class musky fishery, will have positive economic benefits for both local businesses and property owners.
To continue the storied past of Pelican Lake, we propose a resolution to protect the population of musky by one of the following options:
The above proposal was presented at the July 16th 2005 Pelican Lake Property Owners Association Meeting, where 78% of the 89 attendees supported a higher minimum length limit, while 18% were against and 3% indifferent. Furthermore, a 50-inch minimum length limit (57% of positive votes) was more popular with Association members than either a 45-inch minimum (24%) or 40 to 50-inch protected slot (19%).
At the 2006 Association meeting there was again a vote on this issue. After discussion a vote was taken on whether or not to withdraw the previous support of the association. A vote passed stating that the association would remain neutral on the issue and a letter would be sent to the WDNR and the Conservation congress stating such.
NO vote has ever been taken at the Lake Association Meetings to support going back to a 34” size limit on Musky, as the proposed question suggests.
Also to my knowledge no letter was ever received by the Conservation Congress or by the WDNR that said the Lake Association or the Town of Schoepke ever passed resolutions supporting lowering the Musky Size Limit, as the question suggests.
The Town Board of Enterprise, which borders the western end of the lake did vote on such a resolution, however that town board is chaired by the author of this proposed question and the actual citizens never were able to vote on such a resolution. Just the limited members of the Town Board lead by the author. These rules changes are open to the public comment and vote at these spring hearings and in 2006 at this very meeting Oneida County passed a 50” size limit increase by approximately 80% and now we are back again without even giving the rule change a chance to show results. All the same potential problems still exist on Pelican Lake as they did at that time.
The question as worded is very misleading as to how the local residents feel about the 50” size limit, there is NO consensus by a large group opposed to the 50” limit and no documentation other than that from the Town Board of Enterprise has been presented showing support to lower the size limit. The residents of the Town of Enterprise were never given the opportunity to weigh in on the issue. The lake is going to be studied over the next few years, please give the biologist a chance to determine what is best for the lake based on good science, not on the words of a few people opposed to change.
And regarding the argument that children aren’t able to keep and enjoy their largest fish under the current regulations:
Even a 34” minimum prevents a child or novice from keeping his first or largest if it is 30”. The opportunity to educate the novice or child on the benefits of catch and release and the great feeling you get from releasing a top predator to fight another day are flip side benefits. Many anglers believe that a truly large musky is too valuable to be caught only once. That fish of a lifetime might never have been there if another angler had chosen not to release it. A reproduction is an excellent option for someone wishing to memorialize a past accomplishment. Many of the best taxidermists now offer reproductions at the same price as skin mounts and it is extremely difficult to tell the difference between the two. With higher limits, and a naturally reproducing population, more people will have the opportunity to catch that first or personnel best musky.
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Location: APPLETON, WI | Very well written, Mike! |
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Location: Smith Creek | Yup, well said Mike, and if I didn't have to stay home in Price and try to shoot down this trolling BS I'd definitely go to Oneida to shoot down this size limit BS. |
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Location: Barrington, Il | Trolling won't hurt the fishery. This is another social issue and not science based. You can't argue science just when it fits your arguement. |
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Posts: 576
Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Do you remember the backtrolling days? Can you imagine fishing a 200 acre lake and along comes a troller with a spread as far as the eye can see that cuts off your drift and proceeds to run this spread accross the structure you are working? It's bad enough having casters cut you off, but a boat that looks like he's trolling in Green Bay or something doing it? C'mon get real!! Not what I want on my home waters!! Limit it to lakes over 1000 acres and you get my vote!! It's bad enough with the low size limits, limited stocking, and native spearing, now you want to give the Little Johnnie group yet another way to catch and kill muskies? Not on my watch!! |
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Location: Smith Creek | Two issues I have with trolling: As Ken said our lakes and river are too small to troll, and the CPR ethic in these counties is some of the worst in the country. Increasing opportunities to harvest muskies is not a good idea around these parts. |
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Posts: 576
Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Flambeauski,
My cabin is in Price too!! When I bought 10 years ago, I was appalled by the dead musky pictures at the bait shops and the general lack of CPR compared to say Vilas or Oneida. I hate to say in 10 years, very little has changed. The same ones keeping are still keeping and teaching their children the same. Allowing trolling without regard to lake size or size limits is the wrong way to go!! |
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| Now because I troll I am a "Little Johnnie" and kill every fish I catch? And worse yet, on YOUR waters. Give me a break. People present arguments that are this pee poor and wonder why cannot change the minds of others. Ever think that maybe it is your tact, or lack there of. I think myself, like many could get on board with the limiting of trolling to lakes over a certain size, but them you don't stop when your ahead and you keep talking. Was on the fence about this one, but now know which way I will vote. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | scares_fish - 4/6/2010 1:59 PM
Now because I troll I am a "Little Johnnie" and kill every fish I catch?
never saw you being singled out there scares_fish.
Edited by jonnysled 4/6/2010 2:10 PM
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| "now you want to give the Little Johnnie group"
Singled out, no.........casted (no pun intended) into a "group" that simply "catch and kill muskies" because I use a certain legal fishing method.......... yes. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Mike, any way to put what you wrote onto a nice 1 page handout? It sure would be nice to handout what you wrote at the meetings. Those on the boards here can make printouts, and hand them out prior to the meetings starting. I am sure you could get several volunteers in counties across the state to stand at the doors before hand to distribute the handout.
Just a thought.
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Location: minocqua, wi. | scares_fish - 4/6/2010 2:16 PM
"now you want to give the Little Johnnie group"
KenK ... just look at his avatar ... he's sending out good vibes and kumbaya. sure it's legal to troll ... keep at it where it's legal. i'd imagine you have plenty of great places to do that including the bay of pigs. it's a legal way to enjoy the sport.
up-north it's legal to row-troll and it's really cool ... try that too
casting is a gas especially on lakes that only have a weed edge or a handfull of productive zones.
plenty of zen headed your way ... no reason to get all antsy |
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Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | scares_fish,
Never said that! Just saying that the group that will keep, will just have another tool to use! Small lakes cannot take a hit like that. Wisconsin has too many issues already, native spearing, 34 inch size limits, reduced budget, reduced stocking, etc. and without fixing them first, the introduction motor trolling is a big mistake! |
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| Plan on taking 4 or 5 outdoor enthusiasts to vote pro musky. |
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Location: Smith Creek | what Ken said
Edited by Flambeauski 4/6/2010 2:56 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, WI | I was going to mention in the first post that anybody can and should print out my original post and use however you want.
The best way to get a document would be to copy and paste my text into a word documents.
As is, it’s a two page doc at 12pt. If you drop it to 8pt it will fit on one page. Feel free to streamline it however you want for your particular meeting.
If someone could read it at the different counties that would also be great.
Thanks
Mike
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Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | Here is what I'm going to bring for ammo to the Winnebago County Hearings:
Thanks for all the info Mike. Please correct any of the following if it is inacurate.
Facts:
1) The Pelican Lake Association has not recently voted in favor or not on changing the size limit back to 34". In 2005 the lake association voted 78% in favor of higher size limits. In 2006 they voted to be nuetral.
2) This rule change proposal was written and submitted by a chairperson of the Town Board of Enterprise with support of other board members. Residents of Enterprise were never able to vote on the resolution.
3) At spring hearings of 2006, Oneida County passed the 50" by 80% and it also passed statewide by a large margin, thus the regulation change.
4) Pelican has not been stocked since 1998. The musky population estimates have shown drastic decreases in numbers. Recent capture rates of small (naturally reproduced) muskies is very low. We need to protect the fish we have left.
5) The 50" limit has only been in place for 2 seasons. We need much more time to be able to see a difference.
7) The WDNR biologist for Pelican lake is in favor of the 50" limit for biological reasons.
7) Pelican Lake is locally touted, "The Home of the Musky" |
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Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | I found this when searching the internet for Pelican Lake musky information:
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/nrboard/congress/spring_hearings/2009/resolut...
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Location: Rhinelander, WI | Joe, your bullets points are correct and look good except in #4 there will not be an official pop estimate until 2011-2012, however anual fall shocking studies (done by the tribes) have shown very few young of year musky, few enough that the biologists that look at those studies have taken notice and have some concern, tribal and WDNR.
The item you attached to the second post is the actual resolution voted on in Oneida county last year. It is full of false hoods.
There was not a room full of people up in arms at any Lake Association meeting. In 2006 there were a couple guys that wanted it revoted on and they used every negative argument in the book to try and justify their argument. After long decision it turned into a he said, she said argument and the 2006 vote was taken to remain neutral and it passed by a 39 to 26 margin. Much closer than the 2005 vote in favor of protecting the fish, which passed by a 69 to 16 margin. The Lake Association never had wishes to remove the 50” size limit and NEVER took such action. The current Association Boards position is that depending on who shows up to the meetings the support could go either way therefore they will not discuss the issue as the place to do it is at the CC meetings, and they have bigger issues to deal with like Aquatic Invasive Species.
After talking to the Town Clerk of Shoepke yesterday and today a review of meeting minutes going back to 2004 reviled that there was never Town Board action taken on this issue one way or the other and no letter could have been sent without it. The WDNR never received any letters from Shoepke and the CC members I know never received letters from Shoepke. The only letters were from Tiger Guth and the Town of Enterprise. I don’t know if that was official Town Board action or just Mr. Guth sending the letter, but at no time was resident input asked for.
Nail A Pig!
Mike |
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | We're planning on attending the Oneida County hearing to support the Pelican Lake question along with others.
And please, everyone out there open your mind and vote 'yes' to the trolling proposal. It's time (way overdue) for Northern Wisconsin to step out of the dark ages and allow anglers to fish with a widely accepted sportfishing technique. The no-troll law is an absolute joke, please get out and vote to hopefully bring this to an end.
JS
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Location: Barrington, Il | Right on, Jason! |
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Location: Smith Creek | Try to get trolling legalized in Vilas or Oneida.
We have 6 and a half million acres of trollable water in Wisconsin. Like the CLIFS guys, "I know but I want to spear THERE"
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| Please vote YES on all the trolling questions! There is no biological reason for there not to be trolling. Minnesota has trolling on all their lakes and pretty much everybody agrees that they have a better fishery then we do. And yes I know MN only allows 1 rod but I don't see that making much of a difference especially with C&R as popular is now.
If you are so greedy as to not want trolling on your little lake then would you also be in favor of not allowing casting on the bigger lakes? |
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| The more I thought about it I wonder if it really matters how we vote on these issues. How many years have we voted yes to a higher size limit on Green Bay? The DNR will do what they want to regardless of how we vote. The feral cat issue is another one that we voted in and the DNR shot down. |
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Location: Smith Creek | MN lets their muskies get to spawning age before their eligible for harvest, too. There's no biological reason to allow harvest of an apex predator before spawning age.
I don't think people grasp how many muskies and walleyes in their prime get thumped or gut hooked in this area. |
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Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | As long as you can legally harvest 1 musky per day, 34 inches long, with a posession limit of 2.
As long as you can walk in to any bait shop and legally buy and use single hook sucker rigs.
As long as the natives are spearing spawning muskies.
As long as the DNR has substantially curtailed stocking due to budgets.
As long as the DNR cannot fully enforce the present rules due to budgets.
As long as there are new invasive species being found.
As long as there is insufficient population and harvest data.
Why would you open up an area to trolling?
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | KenK - 4/9/2010 8:30 PM
As long as you can legally harvest 1 musky per day, 34 inches long, with a posession limit of 2.
As long as you can walk in to any bait shop and legally buy and use single hook sucker rigs.
As long as the natives are spearing spawning muskies.
As long as the DNR has substantially curtailed stocking due to budgets.
As long as the DNR cannot fully enforce the present rules due to budgets.
As long as there are new invasive species being found.
As long as there is insufficient population and harvest data.
Why would you open up an area to trolling?
Why wouldn't you open that area to trolling? The above mentioned have NOTHING to do with trolling. The biggest harvest of muskies comes from non-muskie anglers and the tribes. Keep pushing the fear tactics, it works in politics so why not fisheries? I even read an article in the Lakeland Times today by John Detloff (who has a TON of credibility) saying trolling will expand the milfoil problem. Yeah, that makes sense, nice propaganda attempt from a guy who thinks higher size limits in NWI will kill tourism...
Ask the pioneers of C&R muskie fishing - Lindners, Bucher, Saric, Maina, what they think of trolling in NWI. Ask Jordan Weekes (highly respected biologist) what he thinks of trolling in NWI.
Where is the data showing that trolling has ever negatively effected a fish population? That's right, it doesn't exist. Oh yeah, 'We don't need data, we just know it will happen'. More selfish attitudes from people who 'don't like trolling'. Show some facts why trolling is bad. That's right, there are none.
Why will the largest concentration of lakes in the world be decimated by this sportfishing technique?
Doesn't make sense. The world used to be flat, too. Get out and vote 'yes' on Monday.
As always, keep'n it real....
JS |
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| Flamaue, trolling will result in LESS gut hooked fish. |
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Location: APPLETON, WI | I don't understand...? It's a matter of personal preference, isn't it? Troll. Don't troll. Convincing someone they need to vote YES to trolling doesn't sound like it's any different than convincing me I should've voted for Obummer. ...oh, it's not? Funny. Because that's what it sounds like to me. Post some facts that trolling will benefit a fishery. Oh. Yeah. You can't. I'll post up some legitimate documentation that trolling will harm a fishery. Oh. Right. I can't. That's because it smells like a matter of personal opinion to me. That's the cool thing about voting. I don't need to justify why I'm voting the way that I am anymore than you need to justify your reasoning. The main thing is - we're voting. That's all that matters. |
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | 'It's a matter of personal preference, isn't it? Troll. Don't troll'
-Yes, same as MN or Canada. At least allow us that option
'Post some facts that trolling will benefit a fishery.'
-OK, Post some facts that casting will 'benefit a fishery'. Or that rowtrolling or sucker fishing actually 'benefit' a fishery. My exact point, you've proven it. Casting hasn't hurt a fish population anywhere, neither has trolling. But we ban one.
That's because it smells like a matter of personal opinion to me.
-So let's legislate against personal choice.
I realize I'm not going to change anyone's mind, but the old-school traditional bs across the board which keeps WI the most non-progressive state in the MW (in regards to MANY things) is very frustrating. I have nothing personal against those who disagree with me, and hope if you're ever up in the Minocqua area you drop me a line and we can go grab a brew and argue our points over a game of big buck hunter 
JS
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| The funny part of the debate is the largest fish are found in areas where trolling is the main way of fishing...I am not sure there is a trophy muskie lake or river that does not allow it...however you can find plenty of non trophy lakes that do not allow trolling....in WI...BR |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | BenR - 4/9/2010 10:20 PM
The funny part of the debate is the largest fish are found in areas where trolling is the main way of fishing...I am not sure there is a trophy muskie lake or river that does not allow it...however you can find plenty of non trophy lakes that do not allow trolling....in WI...BR
Ben,... Wrong..... Most of the trophy lakes in Wi. DON'T allow motor trolling..... I'm with J.Solan and J,Weeks on this one.
Didn't Mr. Gelb boat a few Trophys on non MOTOR trolling lakes?
There IS no data that proves that trolling will hurt a fishery !! Maybe limit rods to two per person........What ever......... Wi. muskie mgt. is messed up for sure.....What a shame.
Jerome
Jerome |
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| Top H2O - 4/9/2010 11:10 PM
BenR - 4/9/2010 10:20 PM
The funny part of the debate is the largest fish are found in areas where trolling is the main way of fishing...I am not sure there is a trophy muskie lake or river that does not allow it...however you can find plenty of non trophy lakes that do not allow trolling....in WI...BR
Ben,... Wrong..... Most of the trophy lakes in Wi. DON'T allow motor trolling..... I'm with J.Solan and J,Weeks on this one.
Didn't Mr. Gelb boat a few Trophys on non MOTOR trolling lakes?
There IS no data that proves that trolling will hurt a fishery !! Maybe limit rods to two per person........What ever......... Wi. muskie mgt. is messed up for sure.....What a shame.
Jerome
Jerome
Jerome, I was making the point that the world class fisheries for muskies around the world allow trolling. I don't think there are really any serious trophy fisheries in WI outside of GB. Point being that if you look at the places people go to catch mid to upper 50's, they troll. If those fisheries can survive I have no doubt the lakes in WI would be fine...Sorry you did not get the point, seems to a theme with you...BR |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Ben,
Your right, I didn't get your point,,,, maybe make your point a bit more clear the next time . Common sense is what I understand the most.
I missed your point ,again, sorry. I thought we were talking about Wisconson.
Jerome
Edited by Top H2O 4/9/2010 11:32 PM
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| Yes, I was pointing out how pretty much every other area of the muskie realm allow trolling and have far better trophy potential...hopefully that is clear for you...BR |
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| Sorry Jason, I will be voting NO on the trolling questions. A few reasons why.
I drool at the prospect of being able to attack basins, being able to keep my baits in the strikezone the ENTIRE time. Only limited to the amount of gas in my tank. Try to do that while casting. In basin fishing, trolling is a HUGE advantage.
6 line trolling? Ha, those who have trolled with me know if there is 4 guys in the boat we will be doing 12 lines. Try to do that casting.
I know Im not the only one that thinks this way, and will do it if legal. Most fisherman pound shoreline and docks. Trolling really isnt an option. How many 40lbers hauled out of the basins will get people thinking the other way. Look at the excitement Gelbs fish created. Now if everyone can do what hes doing with their motors and not their shoulders I would guess a lot more would be doing it. I know I would.
I also happen to be a guide. I would defiantly take advantage of this. Every person that goes through my boat would learn this. Would defiantly increase the catch rates for the neophytes. 9 lines for an accomplished troller, is much better than 3 lines casting between a guide and his two clients who have never worked a baitcaster before. With clients why would we even bother to cast anymore?
Trolling is already legal on every body of water in Wisconsin, its called row trolling.
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Posts: 4342
Location: Smith Creek | Anyone who wants trolling legalized should visit Butternut Lake in october and count the boats drifting aimlessly with 3 or 4 sucker floats. Some are quick sets, some are single hooks. If those single hook guys are allowed to troll they could easily waste half a dozen fish before they get their trophy.
BTW, I've spent plenty of time trolling Big V, LCO, and Grindstone, to name a few. To compare those lakes (big and deep, with 50" size limits) to the puddles in Price, Ashland and Sawyer is absurd. |
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| Flambeauski - 4/10/2010 9:06 AM
Anyone who wants trolling legalized should visit Butternut Lake in october and count the boats drifting aimlessly with 3 or 4 sucker floats. Some are quick sets, some are single hooks. If those single hook guys are allowed to troll they could easily waste half a dozen fish before they get their trophy.
BTW, I've spent plenty of time trolling Big V, LCO, and Grindstone, to name a few. To compare those lakes (big and deep, with 50" size limits) to the puddles in Price, Ashland and Sawyer is absurd.
I have been there and seen that.
Butternut is a ''pro harvest'' lake. And if you mean harvest by saying ''waste'' I can see your point. I was there last october and personally witnessed three sub forty inch caught and kept in one day. And witnessed some boats power trolling regardless of laws.
Power trolling will put more fish in the boat I think everone knows that.
The muskies in Butternut look good due to lower dencities. But over harvest in many lakes can happen quickly.
cpr ''ethics'' is stronger today than it has ever been in time. and that is great!
Personally I think there is room for harvest and that it can be benifical to some fisheries. This is a great topic that I dont have an answer for.
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Posts: 584
| "I drool at the prospect of being able to attack basins, being able to keep my baits in the strikezone the ENTIRE time. Only limited to the amount of gas in my tank. Try to do that while casting. In basin fishing, trolling is a HUGE advantage.
I know Im not the only one that thinks this way, and will do it if legal. Most fisherman pound shoreline and docks. Trolling really isnt an option. How many 40lbers hauled out of the basins will get people thinking the other way. Look at the excitement Gelbs fish created. Now if everyone can do what hes doing with their motors and not their shoulders I would guess a lot more would be doing it. I know I would."
Why is it that we don't want anglers to be able to effectively catch big fish in N. WI.?
With all the big fish destinations in MN and ONT and elsewhere, do we really want to legislate our resources to prevent anglers from catching big fish?
Edited by Matt DeVos 4/10/2010 12:00 PM
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Location: Smith Creek | Guest, when I said waste I was referring to fish caught on single hook rigs and released so the fisherman can continue fishing.
Mr. Sloan, you've spent enough time in a boat with Lijewski and I've finished behind him in enough tournaments to know he fishes for fish weekend warriors don't have the skill and determination to catch casting. Trolling will make a lot of those fish accessible to anglers that don't have the same C&R ethic that we share. If we can get size limits restructured I'd be more than willing to consider trolling on a lake by lake basis. |
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Posts: 32970
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Flambeauski,
'Trolling will make a lot of those fish accessible to anglers that don't have the same C&R ethic that we share.'
Those fish are accessible to all using currently legal tactics. Single hook rigs should be removed from all the stores, and if we collectively tell the stores that, they eventually will listen.
Let's do a better job of educating those folks. Minnesota allows trolling...right? Fishing's pretty good over there, even on the metro Lakes, I hear.
For trolling or against, at least keep the arguments real.
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Posts: 69
Location: Pittsburgh | Gentleman living in a state that allows trolling may I offer this perspective. Those that are the better than average casters are going to be the better trollers, location is always first. Courtesy has no technique. trolling successfully is by no means a easy way to catch fish consistently just as casting is not. I am absolutely convinced smaller bodys of water should be restricted, here it is a no motor rule. Only because a small lake is exactly that a small lake.I would take a look at the licence sales for the last 15yrs in your state ,if I were guiding, and see which way they were trending to see what should change to reverse negative trends. if someone could answer a ? I see these spearers using decoys is this legal for open water and ice fishing in wiscon, minn.
Edited by Simple fisherman 4/10/2010 5:10 PM
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Posts: 576
Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | "Let's do a better job of educating those folks. Minnesota allows trolling...right? Fishing's pretty good over there, even on the metro Lakes, I hear. "
Steve, with all due respect, they also have higher size limits too. I think therein lies the better fishing part.
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Posts: 576
Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Steve,
One more time and then I'm done. What if the 34 inch limit is reinstated on Pelican and what if next year the DNR proposes opening up all waters in Oneida to motor trolling, don't you think those that feel "trophy fish are in the eye of the beholder and a person should be able to keep a musky if they wish" will now have yet another highly effective tool in their arsenal to do so? That's all I'm trying to say! I can't believe what I see every year.
I'm done, win or lose, please vote your conscience Monday! |
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| quit speculating (guessing) and look around for relevant examples to predict what will happen with trolling in place.
Pewaukee, Okauchee, Monona, Waubesa: all highly pressured urban waters with poor water quality and trolling is allowed.
in the case on Madison Chain lakes, the average size of fish caught has been steadily increasing ever since the minimum size limit was raised to 45".
heck, even Wingra which is more size-comparable to some of those northern ponds people are talking about, has seen an improving size structure with reduced stocking and a higher size limit. lots of trollers out there who manage to co-exist with casters and sailboats and kayaks.
how could those lakes maintain populations of good-sized fish if trolling is an "easy" way for people to rape the resource? because harvest isn't a result of technique, and trolling isn't an "easy" path to fish. a quasi-biological opposition to trolling is crap, imho.
for those who oppose it for reasons of "tradition", i'm okay with that. i disagree, but at least it's a real reason and i can understand it.
i'll vote "yes" for trolling, and i'll vote "yes" for any size limit increases that come up. for trolling because it increases opportunities, and for size limits because that's the real way to protect fish from harvest.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Can't say it better than that. |
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | This is actually a really good example of a debate.
I'm pretty much done with it, said my piece, but to answer a question:
Yes, I've spent more time in the boat with Lijewski than I care to admit. Mark rarely fishes suspended muskies, so trolling wouldn't really effect the areas he targets.
Best of luck to everyone this season.
JS |
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Posts: 576
Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | OK, I said I was done, but again you are citing an example of a fishery where the mininum size is 45 inches, but the lakes in question have a 34 inch limit with a 50% at best C&R rate, the thumps can be heard far and wide.
Best of luck in 2010, nail a fatty!!
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| Not to mention Lambeau what is the acreage on the Mad Chain lakes? Im all for trolling on select bodies of water but I feel size limits in northern Wi are a MUCH MORE IMPORTANIT ISSUE THEN TROLLING.
Mr Musky |
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Location: Smith Creek | lambeau - 4/10/2010 6:21 PM
how could those lakes maintain populations of good-sized fish if trolling is an "easy" way for people to rape the resource?
Easy, higher size limits, and excellent catch and release ethic, neither of which this area has.
I'm through with this as well, my final thought is I disagreed with the no trolling rule until I lived on a lake in Price for several years, and observed how the locals and tourists fished. I truly feel more muskies will be harvested if trolling is legalized.
If you weren't there then you don't know. |
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| There's a lot of talk about good fishing in Minnesota with legal trolling, but there is a big difference between two guys trolling two baits in a 15,000-acre lake in Minnesota and two guys trolling six baits in a 100-acre lake in northern Wisconsin.
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| KenK - 4/10/2010 8:19 PM
OK, I said I was done, but again you are citing an example of a fishery where the mininum size is 45 inches, but the lakes in question have a 34 inch limit with a 50% at best C&R rate, the thumps can be heard far and wide.
Best of luck in 2010, nail a fatty!!
Focker Out!
A 50% C&R rate? Do you hae any data to back that up? Overall the % released is WAY above that. |
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| Dear Mr. Huh?
Trolling will surely put more baits in the water -- few anglers cast three baits at a time -- at prime depths for longer periods. It seems likely more fish will be caught. Since the release rate is not 100 percent, more fish will be intentionally killed.
We also know that not all released fish survive, so there will also be a certain level of collateral damage.
Trolling will mean more dead fish.
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Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Huh,
Until you live on a lake in the area, you really have no idea what really happens up there!! Thump, thump, thump..... |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The size limit in MN is recently raised to it's current state wide, same with the other waters mentioned. Trolling has been allowed throughout history on those waters. Same with Cave Run, Illinois, Iowa, in fact, about everywhere but N Wisconsin. There's LOTS of smaller waters across the country that are very good Muskie destinations where trolling is legal.
Tradition is the reason trolling isn't legal up here now. If that's the wish of the majority, I'm fine with that. If it isn't, and the law changes, I'm fine with that too.
Harvest isn't a symptom of trolling... not cause and effect either way. Trolling is not an automatic success story..by a long shot.
If harvest is as bad as some say in the area in question, then education and raised size limits (and because of the CC, one is not possible here without the other) are needed...badly.
If the limit on Pelican goes back to 34", it won't be trolling if allowed that kills the lake, it'll be harvest....no matter what method is used to catch the fish. |
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Posts: 1270
| I wonder how all the other states that allow trolling have any fish left after hearing all you guys talk about trollers raping and piliaging the resources. After listening to you I would expect to go to LVD and see a visable line in the water where no musky is alive right at the state line because surely every musky north of the state line must have been caugth and thumped by the evil trollers in Michigan. But the funny thing is when I go there I catch more fish on the MI side than the WI side. But factual evidence be #*^@ed I guess you guys know better than all the other states in the counrty because you have lived on a lake in the one small area of the counrty that doesn't allow trolling for historical reasons. And then I guess we don't know what we are talking about because we don't live on a lake. I guess that only those who live on the lake should have a voice in the regulations and maybe even only they should be allowed to fish it also.
Will more fish be caught is trolling is legalized? Most likely there will be more caught and since the release rate is not 100% then yes more fish will end up dieing but that number will be minescule. Let's outlaw double 10 bladed bucktails while we are at it becuase more people are catching fish on these lately so they are killing more fish also. |
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Posts: 1168
| The bickering on threads like this is giving me second thoughts about going out and voting. I was going to go, now I'm not so sure.
Seriously....go and vote for what you want to vote for. If I was someone who doesn't give a rats butt about muskies and stumbled onto threads like this I'd think; "What a bunch of whiners..." We might perceive that muskie anglers are a huge group but in the grand scheme of things it's a niche hobby in the entire freshwater fishing realm. When we put our minds to it and go out and support a common cause we have a very loud voice that is ultimately better for the sport in the form of increased size limits. We are passionate, we all want to catch bigger fish, and when we join together and back each other up great things can happen. The turnout a few years ago statewide on the Pelican Lake increase was phenomenal. It's a great example of what we can accomplish when we put our minds to it.
Too often we get ticked off at one another over what strain should be stocked, trolling, where size limits should be, too much pressure, too little pressure, the world record, etc., etc., etc. We sound like a bunch of old blue hairs sitting at the beauty shop bickering over what Barbara or Rosie or Whoopi said on the latest episode of "The View." In some ways we all need to grow up, myself included. Now is not the time to bicker...go and support the stuff that is important to you. I personally will respect you more if you vote for something I don't agree with than if you don't go and vote at all. If you don't go and make your voice heard then in my mind you don't have the right to go and complain that things didn't go your way. Just go and do what you have to do this week. This argument was tiresome on the first thread it showed up on. I believe this is now the third. Let me know when it's over, I'll be out talking these hearings up to people I know so they can go and vote on this stuff too.
Edited by ulbian 4/10/2010 11:32 PM
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Location: APPLETON, WI | Amen to that. |
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WI Conservation Congress Hearings April 12th - PLEASE ATTEND