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Posts: 138
Location: Utah | How many of you consistently troll in the prop wash? We've been doing it a lot with a lot more success than I thought. However we've missed a few hits as I'm think'n the drag was set to tight (lure hooks were sharp). So question; Should you use less drag when trolling the prop wash? Thanks in advance K2 |
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Posts: 256
Location: MadCity Wisconsin | In Wisconsin we can troll designated waters, usually in the Southern part of the state with 3 lines per angler. I always have one down rod in the propwash and that is the bait that gets hit more than any others. Very effective. Common wisdom here is that the prop stirs up the baitfish below the boat and the muskies key on the scattered baitfish. One thing is certain.........muskies do not fear your boat or motor prop. Over here the trolling bite doesnt start until late spring to eary summer unless you target the weed beds.
If you are not hooking up the fish are neutral, if they really want the bait they will hookup. Star Drag........back off 1/2 to 3/4 of a revolution on the reel, that will give you about 5 lbs. of pressure on the pull.
Our season here is still a month away, gotta be fun to fish this early.
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Posts: 97
Location: Pickering, ON | All the time.
It does help to back it off a little bit. You still want a deep bend in the rod to keep the tension on, but at the same time let the fish get a bit of distance from the boat - more than anything it buys you time to get the boat in neutral and the rod out of the holder. It also keeps them down - when they hit with less than 30' of line out the tendency is for them to go airborne and throw hooks. Having the drag a touch looser gives them the ability to dive.
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| There are more factors than just the drag of the reel. Rod material and line type and line length are the other factors to use as well. I use solid fiberglass rods and superbraid with the drag close to but not locked down for about 80% hookups. I used to use composite material rods in the past with looser drag and missed too many fish. I tightened up the drag but it didn't seem to help much.
The fiberglass rod for me was the key for the prop wash hookups. I also use a 4 -5 foot hard mono leader that stretches some and I go fairly fast at 4-6 mph. I get the hookset from the snapback of the fiberglass rod, a little from the leader and a bit from the drag if it's a bigger fish.
Another thing to fine tune is turning your boat to the opposite side the fish hits on to drive hooks in.
My prop wash rod has 15 ft or less from the bait to the boat. |
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Posts: 2332
Location: SE, WI. | DEFINATELY A LESSER AMOUNT OF DRAG COMPARED TO LONG LINING!!!  |
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Posts: 191
Location: WV | Do not put boat in neutral until rod in hand and then tell driver-neutral. jw |
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Posts: 344
Location: Musky Country | Got a question about this...
Can you guys see the lures in the prop wash? |
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Posts: 480
| spinnerbaits you can see in the prop wash, some smaller cranks are visable, deep driver cranks no.
But I am setting up a camera this year on a pole to record boat side action. |
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| do you also do that in clear water?
i have caught a lots of fish in the prop wash in brown water,but i have never try that in clear water |
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Posts: 480
| both clear and stained, stained or clear around weed beds and clear on sand breaks |
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Posts: 1308
Location: WI | I like propwash trolling. Generally I think trolling is pretty boring, but it's kind of cool to look over your shoulder and see the baits right there behind the boat, barely under water. I like 3oz spinnerbaits with #10 blades at 3-4mph. |
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Posts: 1530
| on st clair, prop wash trolling is a normal boat set up. we use 10fters. soft tip rods, normally fiberglass graphite composition. drag settings are loose. if you hit weeds you would here the clicker. best results are when theres a chop on the lake. my favorite is 8 ounces and 20ft of line. another aspect to try is 4 ounces and 40 ft. that puts baits just beyond the water turbelence. remember a 30lber needs a little give, thats why we set drags loose. terminal failures happen with drags locked down.trolling at 4mph your baits travelling approx 8ft per second.
hope these thoughts help you out. |
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Posts: 1425
Location: St. Lawrence River | Steve Reinstra - 4/4/2010 1:13 PM
Our season here is still a month away, gotta be fun to fish this early.
Yeahh ours is two months away still  ..I'll have to settle for chasing walleyes for a month |
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Posts: 1185
Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | 2 years ago I was turned onto a good down rod bite on Green Bay. This was not a good pattern in 09' though. 9ft of line out with a Baby Depthraider (no extra weight). I missed the first 4 fish. Then Shep told me to loosen my drag. I did and didn't loose any more fish. I think this put 8 in the boat the fall of 08'. The drag was just tight enough to keep the bait from pulling line out. A weed would make it click. I still don't get why a looser drag keeps more fish pinned while trolling, all I know is it definetly works, even on planner board lines. I use Spiderwire Stealth 80#, Black River Rods (Live and Troll 8') and Okuma Convector and Catalina Line counter reels. They are a little overkill but work for Salmon too. It is nice to have a good fighting stick in your hand when you have a 20# Salmon and he's still goin the other way with 400 feet of line out. They are just right for cranked up muskies over 50" too.
Edited by Jomusky 4/5/2010 3:49 PM
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| Rule of thumb says lot of line out you want a tighter drag and a short amount of line out you want a looser drag. It's easy to control when you are trolling. The tricky part is having the drag set properly for casting as a bite near the end of a bomb cast would require a tight drag, but if the fish didn't hit until the figure 8, you want a somewhat looser drag. |
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Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | Prop wash trolling??? What is that??? LOL...I've been working on and using Wiley Lures for nearly all of my muskie fishing career. I learned the short-line, propwash trolling techniques long ago from the best in the business, Dale Wiley himself. It is an effective way to catch early season skis over weed flats and in shallow water. At times, we will actually run down rods out the side of the boat with no more that 3 or 4 feet of line out. Talk about excitement when a fish hits right by the boat and sky rockets out of the water right near the motors! When it comes to muskie trolling, no techniques should be overlooked and most ideas will work, so don't ever be afraid of getting creative with it. Good Luck! |
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Posts: 1530
| actually prop wash trolling was implemented on l.s.c. before planer boards. in the 1950,s till the early 1970,s it was the only way other then long line.. before cranks as we know them now. pikie minnows, big spoons and large flatfish. homer was the king of it.. a gret method wnen theres a good chop. uneven boataction in waves makes baits run erratic.i bet theres very few that know what a meat rod is. |
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Posts: 723
| definitely run a LOOSE drag!
cost me a mid 40 last year that ate with maybe 4ft of line out,
just put the rod in the holder, checked the drag, seemed ok,
sat down, zzzzzzaahhhhhh!!!! I look back as im staring pretty much face to face
with a wide open mouth, fish went aireborn immediately,
then kaploosh! got me wet n was gone!
had taken my boss out for his first time trolling,
I think he poo'ed himself
oh yeah, and make sure you turn your clickers on!!!!!
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| I would hope you shouldn't need your clickers on with two people when prop wash trolling  Definitely use a light drag |
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Posts: 723
| most of us put rods in the wash, and also planers out as well,
my buddy didnt turn his clicker on last year, cost him a large fish,
and one of my baits.
as dumb as it sounds, have seen it time and again. |
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Posts: 143
Location: Lake of The Woods | My clicker is allway's on while trollin, even if im holdin the rod which is 95% of the time. If i have to use the rod holder for 15 seconds for some reason i will not forget to turn it on. Added security. |
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Posts: 3
| Woodie I have pictures from the late 50s and early 60s on Saint Clair showing the old rod set ups and all kinds of shots from the old days. I will try to attach one here, I have not done it before. If you want I could e mail some to you. They were donated by the family of an older angler who passed on. A lot of guys think it from stirring up bait fish how ever my props are not in the weeds. Muskie sometimes do not scare from the boat and they drop down in the water column and come up to smash it because it is there. I have caught fish on the down rods and wash rods in deep water with baits set high and deep. We run wash rods with 1 pound balls and little to lots of line out depending on the day.
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Posts: 2060
Location: Appleton,WI | I have two words for you regarding prop wash trolling...Johnny Dadson!!!He has this down to a "T" and boats some monster fish doing it.I havent seen him in awhile and got talking to him all weekend at the minnesota musky expo about propwash trolling in the summer months and am really impressed with what he's doing to get fish.
Edited by MuskieE 4/11/2010 10:37 PM
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Posts: 1530
| build4u... excellent classic picture. i like the old sea skiff also. . those were the days of propwash hunting. |
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Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | It is just as easy to come up with the theory that the turbulance from the prop attracts fish as much as it does spook them. Makes sense to me....boat turbulance stirrs up baitfish, so the bigger fish come in for the kill!!
Awesome classic photo there!!
Edited by ShutUpNFish 4/13/2010 7:14 AM
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Posts: 253
Location: On the water | What is the average depth the lure is running in the prop wash, and is it in the center of the wash or on the edge.
Thanks, Tom |
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Posts: 16
| My preference is lures 10 to 25 ft. back, running 3 to 4 ft deep right on the edge of your wake. Speed 4 -5 mph. |
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| I run some with just 2-4 feet of line out including the leader, I also run a pretty tight drag, it works better for me that way...BR |
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| I would mention in regards to a tight drag...In the spring out east I would troll with baits a few inches underwater a couple of feet behind the boat. I was able to watch fish come up mouth the bait, shake it a bit...which would produce those, zip, zip drag pulls let go and swim away, with a loose drag....with a tight drag those fish ended up being hooked...also time I spent with my mentors of trolling used drags about as tight as I used casting with great results...BR |
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Posts: 2332
Location: SE, WI. | Ever have this happen While prop wash trolling? Had rod tips about 6 inches under the surface while prop wash trolling. From the cadence of the lure, the rods were vibrating the surface water and had a explosion from a ski. Grabbed the rod tip and bent it back. Scared the cr@p out of me. Guess I need a extra treble on the rod tip..  . I've heard of ski's grabbing planer boards...But rod tips. Stupid things!! |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Just curious--to the guys who've had good luck with propwash trolling, does water depth seem to have any effect on your success rate? I've never had much luck on Green Bay with propwash trolling, and wondered if it was because we spend most of our time trolling in the relatively shallow southern part of the bay. I guess I surmise that a musky is more comfortable with a vertical "safety zone," where they can ascend in the water column at will. I have no evidence of that mind you, other than that 95% of my success (especially with BIG fish) has come on the lures farther from the boat. In fact, other than one 51+" fish PointerPride caught in 2007, I've never really caught any of the larger fish closer than 75 feet or so from the boat.
So, any luck with propwash trolling in 4-6 feet of water?
TB |
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Posts: 4266
| I find this topic very interesting and informative. This is the kind of stuff that I love to read on here. I first propwash trolled on a trip with Jason Smith on Pewaukee lake's east end. He had some spinnerbaits with bright colored Colorado blades and had them running right where the waves from the outboard crested. It was new to me, but I watched as he maticulously positioned the rods in the holders so that you could just see the glow given off by the blades. I couldn't stop staring, waiting for something to appear and engulf the spinnerbaits. It didn't happen, but I knew that it was something that I enjoyed and I was going to do it again.
Now I do it every year and have added other lures to the arsenal, but the premise stays the same. Now my daughter is the one in a trance.
Last June we did it up on Vermillion and trolled all sorts of reefs and cut across points and ran weed edges but always with the lures just out of sight. We made one very long pass along a steep breaking island with a 6" Loke just out of sight running closest to the boulder strewn flat, and then I took an 8" big-lipped deep diver and positioned the rod holder so the arc of the rod was right over the outboard with the lure running maybe 6' deep about 10' behind the prop. No muskies, but we boated several pike and a 20" smallie, all but one coming from the deep diver.
I am new to this, but I will be utilizing this technique every day that I'm on a body of water where I can troll. You guys just keep the info coming, because I have lots of plans and places in mind where I want to try this.
Does anybody use bucktails on short lines on their down rods? And do you figure 8 the boat if you see a fish follow. Maybe do a 'Crazy Ivan' like in 'Hunt for Red October'.
PS...do any of you guys troll rubber? I'm thinking that trolling a Curley Sue in the wash could be cool, even if it would break the surface and skip a little bit. Almost similar to saltwater trolling that I've seen on TV.
Edited by Beaver 4/20/2010 5:49 AM
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Posts: 480
| We had success trolling in 5-7 water with weeds a foot below the surface. When we know muskies are in there and they won't eat casted baits, we troll them out to get them moving, chasing spinnerbaits fast across the top. These are short lined 20-30 feet back, motor pitched up for turbulence and lots of turns to create a wake. We like to keep the bait high on the second or third wake wave. 6-8 mph with 4-8 oz spinnerbaits. The best spinnerbaits for this technique are Willey's from W. Virginia and SuperSpeedTroller from Muskie Machinery. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Interesting... That's farther back from the boat than I've seen most guys troll, when in the "prop-wash." But I can see why it would work for you, under the conditions you've described. Thus I can see that the water depth wouldn't be as critical as I thought, in that situation. I know Don Schwartz has had good luck filming fish (on a trolled lure) right below the back of the boat, but to my knowledge he is usually quite a bit deeper at first, and then he can bring an interested fish up from the deeper water once it starts following the lure.
What I'd be most interested to learn is whether or not anyone has had luck trolling within 6-8 feet of the boat, in only 5-6 feet of water...for bigger fish. My theory (totally unproven, I will add) is that the larger fish won't be so aggressive under these circumstances--and that the water would have to be a bit deeper in such cases. I would guess that you'd need 10-12 feet of depth to make a larger fish feel confident enough (i.e.; not spooked by the boat) to give chase to a lure that close to the boat. But maybe not. It's simply been my luck that I've caught most of the bigger fish we've gotten, at least 75-100' from the boat. In fact, most have been significantly more than that--so that's what I base my theory on.
TB |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | I wrote an article on Prop wash trolling in 2001 called short and sweet. When I was guiding on Lake Hudson in southern Michigan we put a lot of fish in the boat trolling lokes on short lines. Though it works in clear water it works best in stained water. Hudson was a green stained clay bottom lake and we would run lures back 12,15,17 and 20 feet with the shortest ones closest to the weed lines. Mono lines in the right pound class for the lures you are running and drags set accordingly. I found that short line propwash trolling worked well on Lake St. Clair when the chop was real good. I also found that the calmer and flatter the water the more we needed to be away from the boat either with long lines or Planer boards. Surface turbulence helps when trolling in the prop wash. Ive been short line Propwash trolling since 1997 and it never stops being exciting. Mike King |
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Posts: 4266
| Any chance we can read your article......Or get some shallow Rippin Shads soon? |
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| Just the leader Baby, just the leader ! |
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Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | You can hardly call trolling 20 to 30' back..."shortline trolling" LOL
Just the leader is right!! Just right sometimes!! 20 to 30' is about as long as I'll go in the spring and hardly ever more than 50' all year long. IMO, one of the most common misconceptions about muskie trolling, aside from the "BIG" lure theory, is that you have to troll long lines away from the boat.
Edited by ShutUpNFish 4/21/2010 7:35 AM
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Posts: 2361
| tcbetka - 4/20/2010 9:27 AM
Interesting... That's farther back from the boat than I've seen most guys troll, when in the "prop-wash." But I can see why it would work for you, under the conditions you've described. Thus I can see that the water depth wouldn't be as critical as I thought, in that situation. I know Don Schwartz has had good luck filming fish (on a trolled lure) right below the back of the boat, but to my knowledge he is usually quite a bit deeper at first, and then he can bring an interested fish up from the deeper water once it starts following the lure.
What I'd be most interested to learn is whether or not anyone has had luck trolling within 6-8 feet of the boat, in only 5-6 feet of water...for bigger fish. My theory (totally unproven, I will add) is that the larger fish won't be so aggressive under these circumstances--and that the water would have to be a bit deeper in such cases. I would guess that you'd need 10-12 feet of depth to make a larger fish feel confident enough (i.e.; not spooked by the boat) to give chase to a lure that close to the boat. But maybe not. It's simply been my luck that I've caught most of the bigger fish we've gotten, at least 75-100' from the boat. In fact, most have been significantly more than that--so that's what I base my theory on.
TB
Trolling is too easy a way to catch fish and probably should be banned.
But in this situation there are two questions to ask; #1 Are the big fish present at the 5 foot depth? and #2 Will they let the boat go over them?
If those questions are a yes, and they certainly can be a yes with colored water, I think any fish under the boat is susceptible to the trolling approach, whether active or neutral. It is amazing that fish this shallow will let you go over the top of them, and react quick enough to pound the bait, even at fairly brisk trolling speeds, but...been there and saw that. It kind of makes you re think some of your ideas about what a fast retrieve actually is and what muskies actually do and are capable of doing.
For reference, I remember an article, I think it was in Fishing Facts, maybe In-Fisherman, talking about somebody trolling on Pymatunig(sp), and he was actually trolling depths of two to three feet and catching muskies and other game fish, using a leadhead/twister tail system. Someone else may actually have the mag with the article. I don't believe he was prop washing but he was shortlining if I remember correctly. |
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Posts: 189
Location: Barrington, Il | Beav,
If you have one following just hit the gas. Speed thrills! |
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Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | TB
"Trolling is too easy a way to catch fish and probably should be banned."
Wow, thats a pretty ballsy thing to say....I simply feel the need to rebuttle in defense of not only myself, but also the many other muskie fishermen who troll for muskie and may take offense to the comment like I have. Trolling is not "easy" its about being versitile and expanding your muskie fishing horizons to satisfy the overall passion of pursuing/catching these extraordinary creatures. Its far different from casting and in a whole other category of catching in itself. To each his own....its like the difference between eating with a fork or chopsticks.....so should eating with a fork be banned because its easier? Just because the guy eating with the chopsticks is too dumb to figure out that the fork will help him get his fill quicker and in a more efficient manner? Kind of a wierd analogy, I know, but the only thing I could think of at the momment. Bottom line is that just because someone wants to be more efficient at covering water or catching fish, why dog him/her and go as far as some nonsense proposal to ban trolling? The day they ban trolling in my part of the country, is the very day I'll stop buying licenses, and you can bet your A$$ I'll still be fishing. Ain't nobody going to stop me from doing that and ain't nobody going to tell me how its done.
By the way, I prefer to catch muskies casting more than I do trolling, but I love the overall thought of just catching them way more! The lakes around home are are just not real condusive to casting and more structured to trolling and open water fishing. I'm just glad I'm able to fish however I choose where I live....after all, this is a FREE country right? |
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Posts: 2361
| ShutUpNFish - 4/21/2010 10:12 AM
TB
"Trolling is too easy a way to catch fish and probably should be banned."
Wow, thats a pretty ballsy thing to say....I simply feel the need to rebuttle in defense of not only myself, but also the many other muskie fishermen who troll for muskie and may take offense to the comment like I have. Trolling is not "easy" its about being versitile and expanding your muskie fishing horizons to satisfy the overall passion of pursuing/catching these extraordinary creatures. Its far different from casting and in a whole other category of catching in itself. To each his own....its like the difference between eating with a fork or chopsticks.....so should eating with a fork be banned because its easier? Just because the guy eating with the chopsticks is too dumb to figure out that the fork will help him get his fill quicker and in a more efficient manner? Kind of a wierd analogy, I know, but the only thing I could think of at the momment. Bottom line is that just because someone wants to be more efficient at covering water or catching fish, why dog him/her and go as far as some nonsense proposal to ban trolling? The day they ban trolling in my part of the country, is the very day I'll stop buying licenses, and you can bet your A$$ I'll still be fishing. Ain't nobody going to stop me from doing that and ain't nobody going to tell me how its done.
By the way, I prefer to catch muskies casting more than I do trolling, but I love the overall thought of just catching them way more! The lakes around home are are just not real condusive to casting and more structured to trolling and open water fishing. I'm just glad I'm able to fish however I choose where I live....after all, this is a FREE country right?
Yeah TB!
You need to consider the feelings and reading comprehension of other posters before you spout off!
;)
Edited by firstsixfeet 4/21/2010 10:54 AM
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Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | OOPS! That was meant for you smartarse....
Edited by ShutUpNFish 4/21/2010 11:41 AM
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Location: Green Bay, WI | "Trolling is too easy a way to catch fish and probably should be banned."
ROTFL... That's one of the funniest statements I've heard in a while. Thanks for the laugh firstsixfeet!
(You guys need to pay more attention to whom you are quoting though.)
TB
Edited by tcbetka 4/21/2010 2:24 PM
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