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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | So looking at the goals post (not football related, I promise), it got me to thinking, these fish can sometimes be difficult to those just getting into the sport. The first fish in the net is always a highlight of one's musky fishing, and it can take some time for some people. In trying to lessen some of the time, what are some of the rookie mistakes you see people do in your boat that cause their chances of putting fish in the boat to decrease?
One major mistake I see is people not paying attention to the speed (or presentation of the bait) relative to what you are fishing. By that I mean, bringing in a bucktail too slow to have the blades moving, getting weeds on every cast, etc. I try to emphasize this as much as possible when I have people new to musky fishing in the boat, and those who pay attention to the details and listen to direction, are often successful.
What are some other tips for the newbies from a presentation standpoint, that will help shorten the learning curve? |
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Location: SE Wisconsin | Good topic, Joel.
I think paying attention to what you're doing is very important, but why you're doing it is what makes you a better fisherman. When a fisherman starts thinking like a fish, that's when they get in tune with this passion and advance themselves to a whole new level. When you catch your trophy, celebrate it as such. . . But don't bypassing a reflective moment when you digest whay just happened and what you were doing right to make it happen.
Edited by Sam Ubl 3/30/2010 7:55 AM
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Posts: 100
Location: W-PA | Proper figure eights.
Putting the bait where the fish are. This is one thing I struggled with, were to put the bait in the water column. I am mostly a river fisherman and kept my baits towards the bottom. When I started fishing lakes, it took me a while to get my baits high in the water column or where the baitfish are.
Edited by cband 3/30/2010 7:58 AM
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Posts: 968
Location: N.FIB | learning what to do on the water will come with time on the water,reading musky hunter mag,things like that.When I fished the Imtt on kinkaid with a newby,I told him to make sure his hooks were sharp,in the middle of the day I saw him changing lures and could tell the hooks were not sharp.I grabbed the lure by the hooks and pulled down hard and didn`t even get poked,I said if you can`t hook me how are you gonna hook a fish.I used to think some hooks were sharp enough out of the box,I found out not. |
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Posts: 1083
| Fishing....for any species...is about being patient. A newbie loosing their patience will result in loss of focus, loss of interest and enthusiasm which will in turn, most likely, mean no fish in the net. It's not supposed to be easy. |
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Posts: 2089
| Set the hook............and KEEP REELING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posts: 97
Location: Pickering, ON | Single biggest one has to be slowing down or stopping when a follow happens.
I guarantee we all learned that lesson in the beginning. |
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Posts: 720
| Great thread Joel,
This is going to make me sound like a great big wuss! But the older I get I find myself putting down my rod and reel and taking a break. I don't care if you're physically tired or mentally had enough. Don't burn out a good spot if you're not 100% ready for it. I think part of why I boat more fish now than I did say 10 years ago is the fact that I'm very aware of where my head is at. Missing a low following fish or not being able to connect on that "Out of no where" strike happens less now. Its not that I'm any better at fishing. But rather more mentally and physically prepared for whatever Ma nature throws my way.
So, I'm going to say if you're tired or just not on top of things. Take a small break. I've really changed the way I look at things. It use to be pound, pound and pound it some more. While I still put my time in throwing a break or two through out the day helps me stay focused and ready. My seventeen year old thinks I'm getting old and he's probably right. But you know while I'm sitting in my boat seat having a cup of water and he's throwing lures like he has six arms. I'm still boating just as many fish as he is.
Sorry for pussing up the thread.
Great topic guys.
Dave
Edited by Hunter4 3/30/2010 8:25 AM
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Posts: 723
| best one ive seen a few times from friends is setting the hook when they see a fish coming up behind their topwater. my good friend Andy blew probably an upper 40's tiger in late october cause he screamed like a little girl and yanked the bait away from the fish. mouth wide open 10ft from the boat, and he blows it. hehe
had a girlfriend do it as well on a very large fish on a hawgwobbler.
I shake my head in disbelief cause I dont get fish to come like that to the boat on topwater. never ones with mouth wide open looking to suck an easy meal off the surface.
drag too tight/too loose.
not sharpening hooks,
horsing a fish while fishing alone (my bad) 
not turning your clicker on while trolling. on a downrod none-the-less.
forgetting to set hooks when you see a fish come up and mouth your bait and swim off. hehe
I will say you cant put rookies down for how they work baits tho,
as unorthodox as it may seem, ive seen plenty of them bring fish in or get them on or land them cause of the dumb stuff they do while workin it,
they'll throw oddball pauses in there to turn and look at you while saying something,
and wham! or they may work stuff a lot slower than you and let me tell ya, it works. plus, i like having a rookie in the boat too, its good luck usually.
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | Biggest mistake, especially on some lakes like Eagle...is not learning to do a GOOOD fig 8....SOOO many fish are blown or caught with this skill....it makes or breaks a trip....unfortunately, I have seen guys blow more then I care to remember. Learn this skill..and practice it... a lot!!
cory
Edited by C.Painter 3/30/2010 9:27 AM
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Posts: 1530
| learning to read water. following temps, color, winds. not keeping a log. noticing lure actions. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | two things I notice with new guys, horrible figure 8's (slowing down or even stopping the lure before going into the 8)
and release techniques. Some new guys are so worried about getting bit they pussyfoot around. GET IN THERE AND GET THE HOOKS OUT!!!! |
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Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | On a more general note, not questioning everything. For every 'you have to do it this way' there needs to be 'Why?' Knowing the 'why' allows for proper application when a variable is entered and filters out optional stuff from the critical. And there's thousands of variables.
If one doesn't know exactly how and why they caught their first fish, repeating it is difficult.
In short, not analyzing the process from approaching the first spot to loading the boat back on the trailer.
Even guys in the sport for over 35 years like me sometimes forget. |
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Posts: 82
Location: Minneapolis,Mn | Not having the proper release tools, when the time comes!!! |
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Posts: 2017
| Many great tips so far - I think many people (and especially beginners) try to cover far too much water in a day....most days muskies aren't "jumping in the boat" - The mentality of lets fish really fast until we find "active" fish has many flaws -it generally leads to sloppy boat control. Muskies are the apex predator you can generally look at any lake map and find good starting points (often points but that a different discussion  ) Slow down and learn key spots until you know them like the back of your hand. Muskies are rarely what I would call "active" - especially the big girls.
Edited by IAJustin 3/30/2010 9:04 AM
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Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | Most of my clients are newbies or first timers - That said, the most often overlooked things are as followed.
Gear
Not matching the rod/reel with what they're after - Even though they make some sturdy enough, I will never let a spinning rod in my boat when chasing muskies.
Not knowing how to set a drag.
Polarized sunglasses - They always seem to have glasses, just not a pair that will aid them in seeing a fish.
Technique
How to hold a rod - Whether you cup the reel or grasp the fore grip it doesn't matter. But when you hold the rod 3 inches down the handle behind the reel, you have problems. Also, when you have the rod under your cranking arm on retrieve? I don't even know what to call that, except time to get a left handed reel.
Stance - I've seen many folks lose a giant due to a lazy or awkward stance, or leaning on the butt seat.
The figure 8 - as mentioned by a few on this thread, the 8 is probably one of the most technically difficult part of the game for most. So difficult in fact that many season anglers still botch it up. Practice practice practice. If you find yourself struggling getting boatside hits, switch to a wide sweeping figure "0".
Hooksets - I see a lot of people set high straight up at boatside and keep the rod there. Forcing the fish to come to the surface head shake and often throw the bait. I set across my body against the fish and keep that rod low and tight!
Edited by Jsondag 3/30/2010 9:16 AM
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Posts: 38
| Being a rookie myself i have been reading these boards for the past 3 month since the Musky bug bit. Thanks for all the tips guys!
To the gentlemen claiming rookies are good luck, I will gladly be your good luck charm! Just let me know when and where i will gladly pitch in for gas and bring whatever you like for chow/refreshments.
On the topic of logs, what are you guys using? Can anyone e-mail me an excel or word document of what they use?
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | Biggest problem I have is with guys that can't cast well. Too many backlashes, too many lures in the rocks, too many lures in the tree tops. learn to cast accurately, learn to read the water, cast where the fish are. Doug Johnson |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Hey doug,
Maybe some of those guys were hunting for agates,... And some were trying to catch Squirrels !
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Posts: 2089
| Here's another. Practice casting. Get good at it. When the "guide" says: cast right there, she's 48 and will eat if you can start your retrieve immediatly and not foul in the weeds. Oh, look, here she comes following that string of weeds on the bait. Next.
Edited by Steve Jonesi 3/30/2010 11:04 AM
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Posts: 1348
Location: Pewaukee, WI | IMO, changing lures too frequently. You can't catch fish if your line is out of the water!  |
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Posts: 315
| gooood stuff!! I vote for the figure 8! I had so many people blow it in the eight when they had very nice fish coming hot! Its not that they did not do the eight or slow their bait down but they did not do the eight WIDE enough... big fish need lots of room. It an 8'6'' rod people! Wait...its an 8'6'' rod after my friend busted my 8' in half on an upper 40's after he stuck her in the eight! That brings up my mistake... I did not fully explain to that friend exactly what to do when you hook your first ever muskie which happens to be around fitty and its in the 8!!! My bad!!
Hutter |
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Location: Contrarian Island | as has been mentioned...figure 8s...
but here is another one...setting or pulling the hooks away from fish that hit topwaters!!! Just keeeeep reeling is what i tell guys when they hear or see the fish hit...many fish have been missed by jerking way toooo quick! takes lots of mistakes to get that drilled in your head but once you do you will catch a lot more fish on topwaters.... |
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Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | +1 to the topwater mistakes.
it's absolutely critical you wait until you FEEL the fish way after you even see it that you should set the hook. Failing to do so properly will inevitably lead to a lot more lost fish. It's obvious you're going to be excited when you see a mouthful of teeth wide open and chasing the heck outta your lure... it takes a lot patience (and nerve) to know that you need to remain focused and execute the hook set at the proper time. |
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Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | A few I've seen:
- Changing lures every three casts.
- Not having rod and reels set up before getting on the water. Sometimes even wanting to respool reels on the water.
- No sunglasses. No hat. Improper clothes. No lunch or beverages. Expecting others to supply them with everything.
- Not using the bathroom before going out. Then peeing "on" the side of the boat and not "over" the side of the boat.
- Constantly complaining about not catching fish - ensuring no more fishing trips with boat owner.
- Catching a nice fish and then complaining it wasn't big enough - ensuring no more fishing trips with boat owner.
Sometimes it is nice to fish by yourself. |
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Posts: 697
Location: Minnetonka | Flambeauski - 3/30/2010 8:39 AM
GET IN THERE AND GET THE HOOKS OUT!!!!
Amen Brother. I second this as being one of the biggest mistakes, and something that even the non-rookies can work on. Bring the right release tools and, yes, "Get in there..." |
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Posts: 1220
| I will add my wagon to the "figure eight" train. I think it is naturally hard for a newbie to believe that more than half of his/her fish will be caught on "eights." I think it just doesn't feel like it is going to be true. If I had the job to teach a newbie, I think I'd give him a bait I knew was good--wouldn't let him change it and wouldn't let him skip a good figure eight all day. There is probably not a person on this board who would do it....but I wouldn't be surprised if you could skip casting altogether, just do a non-stop, really good eight all day long and increase your catch rate. I'd also venture a good guess that when you see a following fish that is usually responsible for the the most dedicated and lengthly eights---that is often a different fish that ends up in the net. Marty Forman |
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Location: N.FIB | Herb_b - 3/30/2010 1:24 PM
right on
Sometimes it is nice to fish by yourself. ;) |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | It bothers me most when other people don't see follows on their own lures !!!
I watch for follows almost to a fault. To me, it's almost as fun as catching them, so I hate it when my friends miss out !! |
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Posts: 315
| i agree on that one!!! course its not only rookies that do that one. i guess this isnt just a rookie mistake either and it has nothing to do with catching fish but one thing that bothers me when out in the outdoors is people missing out on the big picture. the birds the sounds the scenery. while out sometimes with people they dont notice the loons swimming buy or the eagle up in the nest its things like that i really pay attention to and its all worth so much more than anything else. atleast thats how i feel cuz ya know it all could be gone tomorrow.
-ba- |
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Posts: 13
Location: NW Wisconsin | Your point on sharpening hooks is great. I have been musky fishing for a while and it is a good reminder to me, especially rookies, that sharp hooks can be the difference between a musky in the boat or a musky that got away. Thanks for the tip
Ike |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Quite simply just paying attention as Dave alluded to. You can still have fun in the boat, but pay attention to your bait coming in. Even go as far as watching a few seconds where your bait just came through by the boat while you are starting your next cast/retrieve. Tips you off to late followers that then can be used to adjust your presentation. Also as Dave said stay in it mentally. During long days the fish usually end up hitting after some pretty boring hours, and if you are not mentally in the game yet chances are you will miss the hookset, or lose the fish due to a poor hookset. It is difficult to keep a sane mind for 18 hours with no action so do what you must to try to because that fish may hit after 18 hours and 1 min.
Don’t only pay attention to your bait coming in and your mechanics, but also to your surroundings. Notice how all of a sudden the birds are going crazy, how the loons have started diving, the hatch that has begun, and so forth. By being able to read nature and your surroundings you will be more in-tune to the feeding windows opening and will be able to get yourself prepared for the upcoming strike. Also pay attention to your boat partner. What are they throwing, and make sure you are doing something different to find a pattern. Cast to different water they aren’t casting to. Even if you are in the front. If you realize they are fishing the same water you just fished then turn to the other side of the boat and fish that side. Or tell them to. Don’t be both throwing bucktails, or both crank baits in the same depth range, unless you KNOW that is the pattern to be doing.
Along with staying into it mentally comes keeping a bait wet. Don’t be changing a lure every 5 minutes until you have gone through both of your monster Lakelands in the boat, and start asking your partner to use some of theirs. Now if you find yourself not working a bait “good” anymore because you have thrown it for several hours straight by all means switch. By switching you keep yourself into the mental game, and work a bait much better. If you don’t know what to throw don’t sit there looking in your box for 20 minutes trying to pick one. At times like this just grab a bait you like to throw, and start chucking.
Last of all SET THE HOOK ON ANYTHING. Being a rookie you don’t know what a strike feels like. Most expect a bone jarring event. If something just doesn’t feel right (plays in with being mentally in the game) set the hook! What do you have to lose? I have too many friends and clients with me out suspended that say; “Huh, that felt weird”, “Are there rocks out here”, “Are there weeds out here”, but never set the hook. I see too many lost opportunities because they just didn’t set the hook.
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| Ciscokid brings up another one. 18 hourrrs with no action? Um dude your pattern isn't working. Being versatile and realizing there are probably fish eating somewhere on the lake every hour is important. Don't get stuck on one depth or presentation or pattern. If it isn't working try something else! |
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| My biggest fear when I see "rookies" on the water is that they almost never have a decent landing net. How many times do you see the new guys on the water and they basically have a piece of s*%t net they bought at wal-mart that is nothing more than a bass net with no rubber coating. They then bring the fish into the bottom of the boat and let it tangle up and basically ends up killing the fish whether they release it or not. Please help educate the new guys into proper landing gear and release tools. I use the biggest net available, the Frabill Big Kahuna, and there are many other great nets out there too. Once you net the fish, leave it in the water, remove the hooks, and only remove it from the water for a quick pic. We pay a lot of money for our rods, reels, lures, boats, etc, so there is no reason we can't fork out another $150 bucks for a net that will save a muskies life, and will last for many, many years. |
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Posts: 134
Location: East TN | BNelson - 3/30/2010 12:37 PM
as has been mentioned...figure 8s...
but here is another one...setting or pulling the hooks away from fish that hit topwaters!!! Just keeeeep reeling is what i tell guys when they hear or see the fish hit...many fish have been missed by jerking way toooo quick! takes lots of mistakes to get that drilled in your head but once you do you will catch a lot more fish on topwaters....
Being a rookie myself, I have to say I have been guilty of pulling the hooks/bait away from a fish before he actually gets his mouth around it. And for me, Its not just topwaters....if i'm fishing clear water and a fish comes out of nowhere or follows close and goes for the bait, I have been known to set the hook too soon, thus pulling the bait away from the fish. |
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Posts: 285
Location: NE Wisconsin | The rookie mistake I think of, is after the fish is hooked, the inexperienced angler tries to reel the fish in too close, too quick. I have seen some get so excited they don't stop reeling until the leader sticks in the rod tip. Most fish are lost close to the boat. Many come in easy until they see the boat, then all hell breaks loose. Take your time once the fish is hooked and less fish will get off. With a big green fish flopping with only a foot of line out, something has to give. |
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Posts: 264
| Probably not doing a figure eight with smooth enough corners. rookies always make it way to tight for any fish to turn. |
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| How about when sucker fishing while using the trolling motor recognizing whether or not a fish has the sucker or a weed, when your moving very slowly and the clicker is going , getting the "feel" before you just yank hard enough to get tiny weeds off but, hey there is a fish on there and donking the hook set and losing the fish, or realizing any cast you could get a fish, even the first cast with a new lure last weekend not paying attention and having a follow!. did not help that I was wearing a bright red jacket though!. Or trying to be quiet as you can not spooking fish by slamming doors, jumping around and being clumsy. Hmmmm what else, being calm when you get a follow and making sure your presenting your lure to the best to your ability!!! |
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Posts: 136
Location: Chicago | Learning from your mistakes really sucks when fishing ski's. So I learned early. Don't ever get caught stirring the soup. Bright bluebird day not a follow nothing and and I made an half hearted figure 8. Go to make another cast and what was then the biggest muskie I had seen in my first ever two days of musky fishing was looking at me asking why did I take that out of the water. |
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| Lots of good stuff covered so far! I just wanted to add one thing I see from people in other boats and hear from people all the time: BOAT CONTROL!!!!! I hear this all the time(And used to think it);" We were in 14 feet, I could see the weed edge on the graph, all the bait was right there, but all we saw was a few late follows." Many beginners drive the boat where they want their baits to be! Its sometimes a matter of blind faith; it can be hard to move an entire cast length out and see nothing on the graph, but thats what has to happen to keep your bait running correctly in the strike zone! |
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Posts: 169
Location: Houlton, WI | 1. It takes at least 10 follows to get the 8 right. 2. Focus, when you start talking or especially arguing you lose all your consentration.
Edited by mnmusky101 3/30/2010 9:53 PM
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Posts: 87
Location: Red Wing, Minnesota | The biggest mistake I made as a Musky fishing newbie was to not have the correct size net or the right bag material. Consequently, bringing the fish in the boat to unhook. Most non Musky fisherman will net their fish and bring them right in the boat, just like their walleyes. The ensuing fiasco is humorous except for what happens to the fish. I still see this a couple of times every year.
As to the original thread premise: Freezing or slowing down retrieve when a following fish is seen. Jerking the bait out of the water in fear when surprised by a fish at boatside then screaming like a school girl (My wife)
Not working baits in a purposeful manner. |
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Posts: 284
| Nets not ready |
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Posts: 1289
Location: WI | Talking or texting their gf instead of fishing. Rod angle while fighting the fish. If you hold it straight up, the fish will probably jump. Using line (lb test) that is not adequate. |
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Posts: 880
Location: New Berlin,Wisconsin,53151 | I see the rookie in the mirror in my boat not keeping enough tension on the line after the fish is hooked. The phrase "put a bend in that rod" should be next to all the other information displayed in the boat. If there is slack in the line a short head shake will remove a lure in a instant.
Bruce |
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Posts: 1916
Location: Greenfield, WI | Hi Joel, the biggest consistant mistake that I have seen among "newbees" is not doing figure 8's no matter if they see a follow or not, or pulling the bait out of the water, pointing, and screaming, "LOOK THERE's ONE!!!" if they see a follow. |
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Posts: 315
| Ben you are so right!!! Part of the reason y some of us consistently catch fish and some dont. I have a friend whos boat i jump into from time to time and i almost want to yell at him because he spends most of his time in the millfoil. Boat control is a pet peeve of mine... practice boat control and catch more fish. |
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| Since this has gone beyond the point of mistakes of presentation, I'll say a word about the basics that a new muskie fisher has to learn. I learned these lessons the hard way.
1. Absolutely never go out muskie fishing without a net adequate for muskie. You don't need an expensive one, but you need one that will do the job.
2. Master your knots. More times than you think, you will lose a fish to an unsound knot. Do not trust a standard clinch knot. It may be fine for other species, but muskies are much more powerful than what you have dealt with before. Learn a hard knot and always tie it. It is worth the effort.
3. Make sure your line is sound. If you are using mono, change it--without fail--every year. Always check the last three feet of line for wear. Cut it if there is even a nick in it.
4. Early on, go to water that has a lot of muskies. Don't worry about catching the trophy fish from the trophy water. Get experience catching fish. |
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Posts: 311
Location: Ontario | -Buying ten in every colour of everything.
-Trying to apply stuff randomly to from other fisheries to the ones you're on instead of learning the one you're on. "Info overload," no thought process or experience-base to draw on.
-Not considering the source when listening to the internet experts. There's a good chance they're as green or greener than you and just type well. Ie: giving you pro trolling tips when they've owned a boat for two years and are just learning how to back it off the trailer or dock it etc.
-Using gear that's too light.
-Trying to do it all in one day (learn every lake, own every lure, use every single technique). No game plan, not respecting the learning curve. People want it all right now these days. Not much time for trial and error/hard knocks.
-Not muskie fishing enough through the entire season. |
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| or better yet, some of the guys have never even owned a boat but sure can talk the talk!
"-Not considering the source when listening to the internet experts. There's a good chance they're as green or greener than you and just type well. Ie: giving you pro trolling tips when they've owned a boat for two years and are just learning how to back it off the trailer or dock it etc." |
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Biggest rookie mistakes in musky fishing?