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| Here's my problem:
I only get to musky fish about 15-20 days per season, the rest is spent on local waters for small mouth. When I first got into musky fishing 8 years ago I decided I would fish with barbless hooks for personal and fish safety reasons. The first year went good, I went one for one and caught my first musky, but since then I feel I am loosing too many fish. I shrugged the first few lost fish off but last season I lost as many as I caught. Several of them were on, hooked well, and after some runs and head shakes they came off. I'm really at the point where I think these barbless hooks are costing me musky!
Has anyone else had this problem? Maybe i'm not fighting them properly but I don't think I should be loosing half the fish I can get to hit. It's quite depressing when I fish for 2 days straight, finally get a musky to hit, and it comes off in the middle of the fight.
SO, on replacing hooks:
Im thinking about buying tons of hooks and just replacing all of them. I'm probably gonna have to pick up several sizes and styles. What do you recommend? I have plenty of suicks, what kind and size of hooks are on them? any other baits where the hook style and size may effect the action? What sizes for mag dawgs and double 10's?
Thanks
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Edited by Jason Bomber 2/21/2010 2:26 PM
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Location: Land of the Musky | James-I would PM you but can't so here you go. I have 6/0 3551 and 3/0 round bend hooks (Mustad). Letting them go for my cost 3 years ago which is about 50% less than a musky shop. Finally, I do not have many left. Maybe 3000 of each hook now. email me if you want me to quote you out. All I ask is taht you get more than 50 per size. Pain the the #&$$ to pull them out of the boxes and count them. [email protected] | |
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Edited by Jason Bomber 2/21/2010 2:26 PM
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Location: oswego, il | I will have to disagree with Jason here. I suspect it is in how you fight the fish ultimately. I love that light wire round bend mustad. It hooks up very well. The only time they bend out is when I snag up on a log or when the fish thrashes in the net. I am fine with that. I have had too many issues with lost fish and 4x hooks to use them, I like my chances better with the fish hooked up. I even use them on my sucker rigs and don't need a knock my hat off hookset, just a good quick sweep of the rod. | |
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Edited by Jason Bomber 2/21/2010 2:26 PM
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| I think it really depends on the Bait your throwing and how "you" fight a fish.
Thinner wire hooks penetrate easier IMO. Only time i have lost fish from a bend out was speed trolling.
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Location: Land of the Musky | Jason Bomber - 2/20/2010 9:20 AM
I would recomend staying away from 3/0 round bends. They are soft, and will cost you fish.........
Sucks having to remove those things from WAY too many baits.
First I have ever heard of this? The ones I sell are the same ones on Weagles and I have yet to hear of one Weagle hook failing. Are you sure these 3/0 round bends were Mustad brand? | |
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Edited by Jason Bomber 2/21/2010 2:27 PM
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| Tackle Industries - 2/20/2010 11:01 AM
Jason Bomber - 2/20/2010 9:20 AM
I would recomend staying away from 3/0 round bends. They are soft, and will cost you fish.........
Sucks having to remove those things from WAY too many baits.
First I have ever heard of this? The ones I sell are the same ones on Weagles and I have yet to hear of one Weagle hook failing. | |
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Location: oswego, il | Jason, I am fine with anyone having a differing opinion. Not a touchy subject at all, good debate. My experiences losing fish that never got hook penetration led me to these hooks, especially trolling. Rip, nothing, rip, nothing, I have had fish just let go of baits that I set the hooks and never got hook penetration. I don't have the same issue with the light wire mustads getting the penetration, I actually find in alot of situations, the hooks penetrate on the strike.
The reason I brought up fighting the fish is that I could see putting a ton of pressure on a fish and forcing them and the hooks bending. I fight fish as if every one is barely hooked. I don't take 20 minutes geting them in, I just don't over pressure them when they headshake or dive. I thumb the reel. I find there is plenty of time to make up ground and get them to the boat quick when they are not doing those things. Rod goes down too. I have had fish in the net even with these hooks that I am sure were not hooked up, especially sucker fishing.
Another thing too, hook choice can also make a difference with bait choice and fishing styles. I rarely fish bucktails, funny cause I make alot of them. I like fishing erratic baits, the crazier the better. Fish do not get a perfect bite on these lures if ever. I have one twitch bait that has caught many fish and not once have I fought a fish with the lure in the fishe's mouth. I am sure that this too has shaped my opinion on hook choice and fighting fish.
Edited by ToddM 2/20/2010 12:54 PM
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| At least now I know I'm incapable of fighting a musky!!
Thanks guys......
Hard to know for sure untill multiple people on a message board that have never seen you make a cast let alone catch a fish let you know how poorly you fight your fish.
Edited by Jason Bomber 2/21/2010 2:30 PM
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| Kavya Shivashankar - 2/21/2010 1:36 AM
spell check? - 2/21/2010 12:00 AM
lose (verb): to come to be without, to fail inadvertently to retain (something) in such a way that it cannot be immediately recovered (losing, lost)
loose (adjective): free or released from fastening or attachment, not bound together (looser, loosest)
Come on people. It really makes people sound much more uneducated than I'm sure they really are when simple words are misspelled or misued in a manner that makes many posts difficult to read. Take some time to clearly get a point across and it will be much more readable and believable.
Hey loooooooooooser aka "spell check" or whoever you are. You misspelled the word "misused" in your post. Congratulations on putting the "dick" in Dicktionary. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | "First I have ever heard of this? The ones I sell are the same ones on Weagles and I have yet to hear of one Weagle hook failing.
Wow, really? You must not read the fishing reports. "Sue caught a pike & I lost a good one on a Weagle"
Ya just can't fix stupid, so this guy has been sorta ejected for awhile. Not the first time.
I don't lose many on that bait, and find the hooks to hold, penetrate, and last just fine. | |
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| It's good to hear different opinions on products. My experience has been that Mustad makes a quality hook regardless of the style, but will pay attention to this more because of this post. Also have had good luck with VMC.
Sounds like a great deal over at Tackle Industries once you decide on style, otherwise Musky Tackle Online also carries hooks. | |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Hi James, Like you, I get limited fishing time and I've been fishing barbless for ~ 13 yrs. I'm hangin' with ToddM on this one. It's got to be how you are fighting the fish, i.e., this is pure physic's! If the hook has enough pressure/spring tension on it, the fish can't throw the hook. Look back at the rod type, the lure, how you have set the drag and how you were fighting the fish when it came off. Most fish will come unhooked if you give them enough slack- if there is continuous pressure/spring tension they can't come unhooked unless they have to much pressure and you ripped the hooks out.
ToddM also has it right, a lot of muskie guys put way to much pressure on the fish in the fight. Like, him, I also don't subscribe to prolonged fights. If the hooks are coming out, it's because the fish has gained the advantage, i.e., you have to be giving them enough slack or pulling the hooks out with to much pressure. These are the only two (2) possibilities.
Rod type and style of fighting the fish might be your downfall. Its a question of balance. Here's a thought. Maybe you need a rod with a softer tip or better yet you need to use your arm's more like spring's during the fight. A lot of times I see guys with the rod butt buried in their gut, arm holding the rod is rigid, and they fight the fish by reeling and drag. This can give the fish a solid fulcrum to work against you, i.e., if the fish shakes it's head by 8" and you can only recover 4" of line in the same time period, the fish wins with 4" of slack. This can happen in less than a second. You just can't rely on the drag and turning the reel crank, you have to use your arms (both) as springs and the rod to fight the fish. Leverage is everything. Rod tip always up, if you point the rod at the fish, you will lose with barbless hooks!
Listen to Pete Mania video's, especially when some one has just hooked up, you will hear Pete repeatedly telling them/asking if they backed off the drag. With the right drag setting, the right rod and both arms all working together there's no reason every fish shouldn't be hitting the net, that is unless they were'nt hooked to begin with.
Yes, I've lost fish also. On my last Canadian flyin trip, I lost a +50" fish because of slack, I had a picture perfect view of the fish in crystal clear water, including the lure and the hooks. I had brought the fish to the boat green and expected my partner to have the net ready. That didn't happen, the fish was fully hooked through the tip of the lower jaw by one hook of the rear treble, and I had to let her/him run away before it started to thrash at boatside. I let the fish run about 30' then I turned it again and brought it back to the boat as the fish got to ~ 6' from the boat, I looked back to see if he finally had the net ready, he did. But I lost my concentration and allowed it slack, in that instant I turned back, the fish did a quick head shake and was gone. I saw it all like slow motion, gills flared, mouth wide open, big teeth, and slack in my line! Hook popped free. We, joked about it later after I stopped cursing, i.e., best way to practice C&R. It was all my fault, and not his for being slow with the net. That fish taught me a valuable lesson, i.e., never ever, ever take your mind or eye's off the fight! Could I have put that fish into the net w/ a barbed hook? Maybe, maybe not. But I also know I gave it the opportunity to throw the hook, and that's all it took.
Here's an experiment, i.e., similar to the Steve Worral's chair and hook set experiment. Take a lure and remove all the hooks, put it onto the rod you've lost the most muskies on. Now have a buddy or one of the kids take the lure and move ~ 100' from you, then have them see if they can create any slack in your line by simulating the headshakes, etc., including running at you like a muskie in a fight does as you reel them back to you. If they can create any momentary line slack, a muskie certainly can also, and you may need to re-examine your fish fighting technique.
Going back to barbs may put more fish into the boat. But I think maybe honing your fish fighting techniques might do the same thing.
Have fun!
Al | |
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| Just my 2 cents on the weagle hooks... I caught 2 40 in. fish this summer on mine and my hooks got bent up pretty good. I lost another fish because i wasn't smart enough to look at my hooks afterward but that being said a hook isn't going to last forever! | |
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Location: Kodiak, AK | Barbs are a very personal choice, but I hate seeing guys go back to barbs after they've been barbless. I've been barbless for probably 15 years now, and I've landed many species of fish, including muskie, on a single barbless fly hook. Like EM said, sure I've lost fish here and there, but I've never been able to not blame it on myself. Lost a 50+ last year boat side because I horsed her and I tore the hook out. I watched it tear out of her mouth. (LOL I was also waiting on a net man!)
One of the things I've always done is to just bend the barbs down. I don't file them off or mash them down into the hook. I bend the point downward, which leave a barb "bump." I dunno, I like having it there as it's not anything that would impede hook removal, but I think it helps hold the hook in there a little bit. Like I say, it's nothing proven but it's how I've always done it. Some guys file their's off or smash them down so that there's litterally nothing left on the hook point. I just like having that little bump on there. Maybe just a mind game with myself, but I am beyond 100% sold on fishing barbless for everything from trout to bass to salmon to halibut to muskie. | |
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| I am barbless in all my fishing from muskies to mountain trout...just much easier on the fish and on the angler. Many people lose fish due to not matching up their equipment. If you are straightening hooks, odds are you are either light on the hooks or heavy on the rod/reel/line. Match up your equipment and barbs won't make difference....also sometimes you just lose fish...BR | |
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Barbless Hooks... HAD ENOUGH!!!