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Posts: 120
Location: Baltimore, MD | Has any one owned or used the G Loomis line of muskie rods? Two in particular that I am looking at are the MUR914C 7'7" Medium Power Fast Action and the MUR756C 6'3" Heavy Fast Action. I'm talking to a guy that would sell both of these to me for $280 total shipped. Is this a good deal or would I just be paying for the brand name? Any input would be helpful.
Edited by Muskie Madness 1/5/2010 8:11 PM
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | I have the 7'2" I think med. It's an ok rod. It just took a sideline this summer cuz it's too short and can't handle most of the baits I use. It's a good spinnerbait rod. IMO I would buy a longer rod. For the $280 range there are lots of 8'-9' rods you could buy 2 of brand new. Musky armor, okuma, tackle industries just to name a few. The loomis don't sound like a bad price though. |
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Posts: 120
Location: Baltimore, MD | Yeah I bought a 8' rod from James at Tackle Industries about a month ago...he has very nice rods for the price. |
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Posts: 1184
Location: Iowa Great Lakes | I have a 7'10 Loomis, it collects dust since getting my rod fromTackle Industries, James has a winner there. |
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Posts: 375
| there are alot of "good" rods out there today. that being said, just like anything that we buy, you WILL pretty much get exactly what you pay for whether you want to admit it or not! look at the warranty, how long the manufacturer has been making rods, where they are made, the physical weight of the rod, what kind of guides are on it, etc. before you decide. in my opinion, looking at all the rod manufacturers' products with the above specs side by side, the best "value" for my dollar are the st. croix legends...the big dawg version to be very specific...
you can try forever but you can not buy a cadillac for the price of a chevy...!
Edited by STUSHSKY 1/6/2010 11:47 AM
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Being a Loomis that is a great price for both rods. The 7'7" may be a bit light for anything but smaller bucks and smaller cranks. I assume it must be the bluish blank? I have a 7'7" Med-Heavy that treated me very well, and was my favorite rod prior to switching to Lamiglas two years ago. I have no clue what that shorter rod would be like.
Loomis rods are great sticks, and if I wouldn't have found Lamiglas I would be using them yet today. |
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| Anybody out there golf nuts? I don't know near as much about rods, other than that the fundamental materials of the backbone are the same (graphite and epoxy)...for high end golf shafts it is VERY common for a $300 shaft to be completely identical, except for graphics, to a $50 golf shaft. I used to think that you always got what you paid for...but now more producers can make and wind high end graphite fibers, improving the quality and dropping the cost. There's a reason that the old two piece 8'6" maina rods are noodles, and the new 8'6"ers are pool cues for about the same price...5-7 years ago you DID have to pay top dollar for long, top notch, stiff rods. If you start to think about which companies mark up their rods the most, I'd bet that your best bang for your buck these days IS James' rods actually! |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Now I haven't used James' rods, but I have used other "cheaper" rods. No comparison in rod quality if you ask me. Sure all rods are made of graphite and epoxy, but the technology that goes into how that graphite is wrapped and the blends of graphite is what sets the rods apart. Along with that is the test of time.
Sometimes cheaper is just as good (pop-tarts and peanuts are a good example), but not always. It is truely up to each individual on whether a more expensive item, in this case a rod, is worth it.
Edited by CiscoKid 1/8/2010 6:49 AM
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | Don't forget about service and warranty.
Edited by Flambeauski 1/8/2010 8:29 AM
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | "you can try forever but you can not buy a cadillac for the price of a chevy"
You can if you don't waste money building your Cadillac and then don't up your margin 600%-1500% plus don't spend $200k a year on expensive TV shows, magazine ads every month, etc..... Leaves a company a lot more money to spend on quality and they don't have to overcharge the consumer. 
James
PS-My rod blanks are like no other. I know enough about materials science to get into trouble so I had my blanks made with certain specifications and materials. Lighter but more flex and strong. Also was able to still put on a lot of Fuji components where they needed to be. I could have charged $200-$300 or more but why? As usual, enjoy the savings and the quality because sometimes you can buy a fully loaded Cadillac for the price of a Chevy |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | "You can if you don't waste money building your Cadillac and then don't up your margin 600%-1500% plus don't spend $200k a year on expensive TV shows, magazine ads every month, etc..... Leaves a company a lot more money to spend on quality and they don't have to overcharge the consumer."
You forgot to add "build your Cadillac in China and offer a 2 year sliding scale limited warranty" |
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | Flambeauski-I do as much or more than my competition who also makes their rods in China and charges 2x-3x more than I do. Not sure what your point is while you type on your computer made in Asia, wearing your pants made in India, with a shirt made in China all while driving your Ford which parts were made all over the world, partly assembled in Mexico and then final assembly in the USA.... On this note, 5 years ago I almost went bankrupt listening to people like you. I made ALL of my goods in the USA and nobody bought them due to the prices I had to charge and LOL I was doing all of the labor myself!!! I still make lures in the USA and guess what. Nobody buys them!! I sold ONE Grunt last month. I sold 1000s of my other lures made overseas and they are made better than I can make them here and I can price them better for my customers. The math was simple for me and my family to not go bankrupt and say bye bye to our house/life as we knew it. Would love to know what 100% made in the USA life style you live and are employed by. Not trying to get into it with you but some people on these boards are real hypocrites when it comes to this. They shop at WalMart but then slam companies on the internet for making "widgets" overseas. At the end of the day just don't buy my products and feel free to pay $400 for a similar rod or $30 for a lure 100% made int he USA. BTW, many or most of the raw materials to make those 100% USA products came from outside the USA..... Have a good week.
James
James |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | up your margin 600%-1500%
spend $200k a year on expensive TV shows
Where do you get these numbers?
When you make assumptions and unfounded claims about your competition you should expect that not all responses will be positive.
If you think your rods are better than the competition's, fine. I only responded because you threw out #'s you have no way of backing.
Good luck with your business.
Edited by Flambeauski 1/8/2010 11:44 AM
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | "up your margin 600%-1500%
spend $200k a year on expensive TV shows
Where do you get these numbers? "
I own a lure company. Its not hard to get those numbers. I know exactly how much it is for sponsorships from Musky Hunter, Keys Outdoors, all of the major magazines, tournament sponsorships, to banner ads and such on various websites. I also know within ~10% of how much almost every lure in the musky world costs (COGS) weather its in the USA, Mexico, China, India, etc. If I did not I would be out of business in a heart beat because I would make some very bad business decisions. I even know the raw material costs of everythign going into my lures and the costs of manufacturing (This is actually what I do for a full time job for the company I work for). Granted, this is still just a hobby for me but I sold more than 100,000 lures last year so I think I know a little bit about the bizzzz
I think the whole not "Made in the USA" thing has been beaten to death on this and other boards. Just do a search and you will find a lot of threads about it.
Have a good day,
James |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | I agree the made in USA thing has been beat to death. Still important to some.
But you can't compare lures with rods. You know how much it costs to build your rods and all manufacturer's lures. Obviously lures need a bigger mark-up for the low volume and low retail price.
You can't pretend to know how much other rod manufacturers are spending on their components, labor, and marketing.
Take care,
Andy |
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Posts: 90
| Lets put things in perspective a little further. We, as americans live a very expensive lifestyle by comparison. It doesn't matter if you live in an 8000 Sq/ft house on the lake and drive a Lexus, or a 1200 sq/ft shack and drive a 12 year old chevy, that part is irrelevant, the reality is that we, americans, enjoy a higher standard of living than most. As a result our workers require higher wages, resulting in higher cost of the products that we produce. If everything you needed or wanted in daily life was made in america trust me when I tell you that there would be more people out of work than their are today for the simple fact that you couldn't afford to buy half of what you have and demand would drop dramatically. The economy is a very delicate and fragile thing in that if the right balance is not struck, such as the current banking situation that has put us in our current climate, the whole thing ceases to progress forward. The American economy is one that is moving closer and closer to one of exclusive sales and service rather than production. Positive or negative depends on your views on the overall health of our economy, and the reasons for such.
The quality of products coming from China is dependant on 2 things, the componenets you have them use as well as the quality control restrictions that you, in this case James imposes. From what I have seen and experienced, those are 2 things that James takes very seriously in having his products produced. The next obvious thing to look at is what goes into a price, obviously materials, labor, overhead (electric, gas, building, insurance etc.), marketing (it akes a lot of money to build a brand name that is synonomous with what you produce), profit (I am not aware of many non profit rod manufacturers), and the final piece that everyone forgets occassionally is Market Demand. A Cadillac Escalade is for all intents and purposes a Chevy Tahoe. Sure there is a little more chrome here and woodgrain trim there, but why is an escalade $20K more than a fully loaded Tahoe....Market Demand. As long as people will pay more for it, they will charge more for it. Does anyone actually believe that St Croix couldn't sell the Slingblade for less if they wanted to...of course they could...but why? As long as we buy them faster than they can make them they will take their $330 and thank you with a smile. I have 2 of them so this is not a knock on anyones buying decisions, but I didn't buy them because of where they are made, or the length of the warranty (if something is gonna go wrong in terms of component failure or workmanship it will happen in the first full season of use (that warranty is called marketing by the way, and it does come with an inherent cost). I bought mine because St Croix is a trusted name in the musky world, and they have great customer service, not unlike Tackle Industries or any of the other rods or products we know and trust.
There is so much continued discussion about American made rods, and American made is great don't get me wrong, but how can you state that you will only buy an American Made rod and then strap your Calcutta, or in my case Luna to it? I just did a quick search to find reels made in the USA, I found 3 brands, none of which I have ever heard of, Ardent, Avet, and Newell. How many of the "Only Buy American Made Rods" accompany theirs with one of those brands of reels?
The fact is that we all hate to see our fellow Americans jobs go overseas, but remember that many of those products would be unavailable to you otherwise, as they would either be priced out of reach or the companies would not be profitable and therefore cutting jobs just the same. Be it Tackle Industries or Musky Armor or Black River or any of the other top of the line rods that have come out recently at a price point under $150, they all have one thing in common, they are not trying to be the next G Loomis or St Croix, they build a top quality product with the best components at a price that everyone can enjoy, it just so happens that like almost everything you own, they require that the production be done elsewhere in the world in order to enjoy the benefits of quality and price together in the same product. |
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Posts: 582
| Although its nice to buy things made in the USA it's becoming harder. If not immpossible if you want to have a few bucks left over. I agree with James 100%. You just can't compete anymore. Why do you think GM is in the position they are in. And when you buy a foreign car, foreign TV or whatever, the person selling it to you is getting paid. Just look how many people Toyota employs in the USA.. Dealerships, salesman, techs, etc.... Same goes for other chinese companies. Face it, we are a true global economy and until this country figures out how to compete we won't have anything made in the USA. Things like taxes, regulations, and cap and trade are certainly going in the wrong direction.. get my drift?
Edited by jackson 1/11/2010 9:17 AM
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Global economy. Has been for decades. |
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | Just got done with my taxes. The USPS made about $60k from me this year and FedEx made about $20k let alone the IRS take of almost 70% off the top of my profits (thanks FET taxes!!). A lot of people in the USA made a lot more than I did this year including BASF for supplying my plastisol. Oh the joy of owning a small business regardless of what you sell. |
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Posts: 375
| i may think about this more but...i worked in the steel industry 30 years ago and i busted first hand steel corporation supervisors in the dark of night spray painting over incoming rail product that was made in italy to say "made by u.s. steelmakers". why...because their bosses told them that they had to do it if they wanted to get paid which in turn meant paying their bills and supporting their families. those same gentlemen and myself (and continue today) were driving new american made cars every three years or so without a problem. we all "supported" each other back then by buying what we bought. those of you out their who knowingly "support" and "push" chinese products are doing the same thing but in the light of day! there are many manufactures of "whatevers" out there that are doing extremely well with what they are selling because it is "american made".
marketing...marketing...marketing...! if your angle is low price then you have to deal with the problems that comes with "it". unless i missed it, st. croix doesn't have any problems with warranty issues, as a matter of fact they have a trade-up discount program with their rods! i haven't seen anything like that with chinese products! so what is the "better" value for the dollar? if we all took the time to research what we are buying we would all be "better off" but we here are talking about this "micro world" of musky rods. in my opinion, "the" market in this musky world is not low end but high end! if someone wants to make money then prove that you can provide a better product than st. croix and then charge accordingly!
why has no one else done it...because they can not!
and unlike others that may receive product discounts i am not a "st. croix pro-staffer" or do i represent any other product manufacturer in any way!
Edited by STUSHSKY 1/11/2010 2:31 PM
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Posts: 120
Location: Baltimore, MD | Thanks for your input guys...now I have my PhD in Microeconomics. I'm probably going to go buy a couple more rods from James and maybe try out the Okuma and St Croix Triumph rods. |
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G Loomis Muskie Rods