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| in an argument with a friend. he seems to think hunting is more complex and technical than muskie fishing. maybe he is right, but i don't think so.
do you think it is? why?
please list reasons.
or do you think hunting is more complex and technical?
thank you!!!! |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | No. It's much the same, except in hunting one can see the signs left behind by our quarry, and a pattern can be developed by that sign over a period of time. The obvious habitat (bedding/resting areas, food sources, etc) is also right there for us to see, while in fishing much is left to an ethereal 'concept' called reading-the-water, assisted by our electronics. In hunting, especially big game, one's quarry is more of an adversary in some ways, because they are aware of and wary of human activity unless one masters all forms of camouflage.
Both require practice and acquired skill and experience to master. Neither is easy. |
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Posts: 774
Location: South East Wisconsin | Thats funny I got into the same argument with a friend years ago. He said Muskies were easier to get than deer. I have never hunted so I wouldn't know. |
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Posts: 567
| FUNNY. I HAVE SPENT MUCH TIME DOING BOTH IN THE PAST, BUT NOW I RESORT ONLY TO CHASING SKIZ. I TOOK SOME LARGER DEER, AS THAT IS MOSTLY WHAT I PURSUED-AS WITH FISHING. I FIND MYSELF STICKING WITH BIGGER BAITS LONGER. IN MY OPINION, AND THAT IS ALL, AN OPINION, I WOULD SAY MUSKY ARE MORE COMPLEX. HUNTING REQUIRES MANY NON STOP HOURS AS DOES FISHING, BUT WITH MUSKY A MAN IS TRYING TO GET A CREATURE TO PERFORM SOMETHING IT DOES TO SURVIVE, IN OTHER WORDS, MAKE A DECEISION TO EAT! DEER HUNTING IS A SCIENCE, NO DOUBT, BUT THE MAIN REQUIREMENT IS TO BE CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE ANIMAL TO SHOOT IT. AS MENTIONED IN THE PREVIOUS, THEY LEAVE CLUES. I COULD SPEND MUCH LESS TIME SEARCHING IF MUSKY LEFT ME SOME RUBS AND SCRAPES. AGAIN, BOTH ARE DIFFICULT,AND IMPOSSIBLE TO EVER "MASTER", BUT A WHOLE OF FUN TRYING!! |
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Posts: 455
| Depends on your location. True trophy lakes are a rare comodity as are private unpressured hunting grounds. Having the ability to access one of these spots is a big piece to the trophy puzzle. You can not hunt (muskie or deer) what isn't their. |
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Posts: 529
Location: Not Where I Want To Be | I've shot more 10 + pointers than caught Muskies over 50" (0)
Edited by bridgeman 1/2/2010 8:01 PM
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | I agree with sworrall. However, I believe hunting is harder if a guy is dedicated to killing just mature whitetails, one that is 4 1/2 years or older every year. If that's the goal of the hunter, then I believe that hunting is much harder than catching muskies hands down. Killing a deer or a few bucks is a good feat, but killing a mature buck year in and year out is a challenge that I don't think anything can compare to imo. Those old bucks are smart! |
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Posts: 1237
Location: South Portsmouth, KY | Deer huntin is def harder than muskie fishin. Mostly in part because i am muskie fishin durin deer season! |
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Posts: 170
| Not sure about more or less complex, but I'd say there are many, many similarities between the two.
Seasonal patterns and movement, weather (post/pre storm) effects, early and late prime times, they both love edges of "structure" (weeds/field edges, etc) and many more. That's why I love chasing them both!!
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Posts: 717
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Wow, a lot of good points here! I agree to get trophies cosistently, it's probably harder to hunt deer. However, by sheer numbers and figuring out where they are, I would have to say muskies are harder to chase. It's getting less and less complex with the technology advances, though. GPS, side imaging, underwater cameras etc. Still, it's harder to know the "lay of the land" when it's underwater. |
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Trophy deer, they are protected at nite, unlike muskie, so they have freedom to move at nite with out pressure. Land were there maybe several great trophies can be privatly owned, were as water is open to general public, and muskies cannot move onto an area were you cannot persue them. I would believe that adult deer have a better self defence with there sense of smell and avoiding humans unlike muskies.
Troyz |
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Posts: 611
Location: Michigan | I think it depends on what kind of hunting one does as well. Just sitting in a large stand in front of a deer feeder with a rifle and scope doesn't seem very difficult to me. However, if one hunts like Tred Barta does (with a long bow and homemade arrows) then I can see it being very hard. I don't hunt though so obviously I think musky fishing is harder  |
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Posts: 956
Location: Home of the 2016 World Series Champion Cubs | bridgeman - 1/2/2010 7:59 PM
I've shot more 10 + pointers than caught Muskies over 50" (0)
what is your point? A 10 pointer in an of itself does not equate to a mature and or a trophy buck. A 50" is certainly a mature fish and widely held as the " trophy benchmark" |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Trophy deer hunting is harder that trophy muskie fishing. I have the good fortune of doing both muskie fishing and bow hunting. I always put aside muskie fishing for bow hunting because it's more of a challenge. Getting a trophy buck(150 class and bigger) to get into bow range without bait is not all that easy. Maybe for two weeks of the season.
Consider passing up smaller 10 pointers and lots of 8's to get a look at a shooter buck. Not to mention all the does around. Now if any of these deer spook any of the times your in that hunting area they will stay spooky for a few days. This will effect the other deer and your stand will go cold for a while. Passing up bucks is hard but a must if one is to collect trophy deer.
I ended my bow hunting season last night by passing a nice 8 pointer. Was hard not to shoot one but he was not what I wanted. Got plenty of them already. 34 bucks passed up this season and didn't shoot any of them. By far my best season I ever had in the woods. Long hours in the tree is only a part of the hunting. Wind direction is also critical in hunting. Fishing it is not that important. Wrong wind and you can't hunt that stand. One mistake on a huge buck and you may never see him again. Fish are not that smart.
Love to do both but only big bucks get my blood going now. Fifty inchers used to do it but it's just not the same rush as trophy deer hunting.
I don't have trophy great land or hunt IL, IA, MI, or any other states. Just a hard core WI hunter with better than average local hot spots and 50 acres in Retreat that gets over hunted by the locals out there.
Trophy Deer get the vote from me. Season ended tonight, icefishing time now. |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Mike,
I agree on the 'get my blood going' part. A big muskie still gets me going, but nothing like a good buck stepping in, even if I'm expecting him. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | I too am lucky to hunt and fish but nothing like trying to kill a mature buck. I agree 100% with you Mike!
Edited by TJ DeVoe 1/3/2010 8:37 PM
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Location: Sun Prairie, WI | Mike said it very well! Excellent points! |
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| I'd say the same because they're both largely about the hours you put in. Assuming you're hunting a decent sized buck, you'll spend a lot of time hunting that comes down to a moment of opportunity. Preparation and stamina/vigilance are the keys to both sports. Little else matters. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | There's too many variables. Shooting a trophy buck in Manitoba or Iowa is less technically challenging than catching a 50" in the Flambeau River while catching a 50" muskie in Green Bay or a brood lake in MN is less technically challenging than shooting a trophy buck in Price county WI. And what's a trophy, anyway? 160 points or better? 40 pounds?
Anyone who thinks one is easier than the other should try to be succussful at it for a while and see how it works for ya (I suck at both, but not because a lack of effort) |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | I've bowhunted whitetails and elk and at times they can seem stupid but as far the difficulty of the animal to hunt, Mike pretty much nailed it. As mammals deer, elk, bear, etc. are much more intelligent than a muskie (I don't think Muskies could even be called intelligent).
What is more complex or technical? It is what you make it. Hunting 1.5 year old bucks or 35" muskies doesn't need to be very complex or technical. Shooting a 180" whitetail w/ a bow or catching a 50# muskie is something very different.
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Flambeauski - 1/4/2010 1:07 PM
There's too many variables. Shooting a trophy buck in Manitoba or Iowa is less technically challenging than catching a 50" in the Flambeau River while catching a 50" muskie in Green Bay or a brood lake in MN is less technically challenging than shooting a trophy buck in Price county WI. And what's a trophy, anyway? 160 points or better? 40 pounds?
Were not trying to define what a trophy is, that can vary from person to person. But trying to kill a mature buck, 4 1/2 years or older year in and year out no matter where you live is just as hard in Manitoba, Iowa or Buffalo County, WI. Obviously, hunting property where deer are able to get that old helps, but it does not mean you will automatically kill a buck that is 4 1/2 years or older just because your in a certain place is a guarantee year in and year out. I've got some close friends who have property in Buffalo county that are right in the midst of numerous outfitters. He sees quite a few bucks in the 130' class and bigger every year, but getting a 4 1/2 year old or older within bow range or even within gun range is never a gimme.
Hence why hunting is more technical to majority. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | I'm in total agreement, but you missed my point. There are plenty of lakes that have trophy fish in Wisconsin and few if any are actually caught. And trolling GB isn't a gimmee for 50"s either.
Any idiot with a daredevil can catch a 50", just like any idiot with a bow and a bait pile can kill a 4 1/2 year old buck. It takes a tremendous amount of skill to do either consistently. |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | That's not a definition of 'technical'. it's a definition of difficulty based upon location and knowledge and experience. LEARNING the technicalities is the key, and then applying and employing them as well. Neither is easy, both have more to them to truly master than most have the time to apply, and in many senses each is as 'easy'...or as difficult as the other.
I've proven to myself I can do either with reasonable expectations of yearly success, right here in Oneida County. It's the time required these days that creates my issues, nothing more. I know where to catch a 50 plus within a few minutes of my house, but I have to be where she is when she is ready. Same with a 5 year old buck. There's the catch, so to speak; I had a beauty of a 12 coming into the field every few nights, just didn't have the time to dedicate to shooting that big boy. |
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| anyone can stumble into a big fish, sometimes they make mistakes.
anyone can stumble into a big buck, sometimes they make mistakes too.
they're both hard to _repeat_ with any frequency, and being able to do so takes technical skill and expertise. few people can do it...
by that i mean, you can shoot deer over bait, even big ones. it might be fun for some, but it's not complex or technical. likewise, you can cast a bucktail in Wingra and catch a muskie. it's fun, but it's not complex or technical.
now go and read Tom Gelb's articles, listen to him give a seminar, and look at his results. he's an engineer who pursues trophy muskie fishing in an extremely technical way. measuring the water temps at depth every day...keeping meticulous logs of areas within a lake that produce trophy fish during different seasons, fish depths in relation to bait, in relation to the thermocline, etc., etc....
cast-reel-repeat it is most definitely not.
to me, that sounds an awful lot like the "complex and technical" things that a dedicated trophy deer hunter does.
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Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | I have had way too many points docked for altering a question to fit my answer. The question is not Trophy buck hunting vs Trophy Musky fishing...
I've blasted Deer out my bathroom window while i was... you know. Nuff said. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | I wouldn't call Green Bay a gimme anymore if ever. Put your time in and yes, Green Bay at one time was a place you could definitely increase your odds at a 50 inch class fish, kinda like hunting in certain areas of Iowa, Canada, or counties like Buffalo County.
Wisconsin is an exception when it comes to baiting in the midwest. Other than a few states down south, baiting is illegal everywhere else, and is almost completely banned across most of WI. Killing a 4 1/2 year old buck or older over bait doesn't happen every day or on a regular basis year to year for every hunter. Sure, a few mature bucks 4 1/2 years or older get duped every year, but not year to year consistently from the same hunter! |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Bait and big bucks do not go together very well in Oneida County. Feed 'em, and they go nocturnal.
Plant a food plot, however, and they'll eventually visit it when you can harvest 'em legally....IF you do everything right. Same as a farm field edge; I'd give anything to have a bean field edge to hunt up here.
We found a ridge with acorns on it this year. Almost unheard of in this area on public land, but there it was. Keith hunted it twice, and guess what....about a dozen other serious hunters found it. End of big buck possibilities. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | Getting down to the technical aspect, I need to be proficient in the use of a compound bow or rifle, scent lock clothing, tree stand or ground blind, and topo maps and GPS. For fishing I need to be proficient in the use of a rod and reel, lure or bait presentation, boat operation and control, topo maps and GPS. Knowledge of seasonal behavioral patterns and tendencies is a must for both.
I really don't see much of a difference. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Big difference. Refer back to Mikes Extreme post. Killing mature whitetails year to year doesn't even compare to catching muskies. The detail and effort it takes to harvest an animal that's been chased around the woods for over four plus years with hunters that have guns in there hands and you'll understand why killing mature bucks year in and year out is harder. Not even in the same ball park is musky fishing. |
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| imo TJ the question wasn't asked about killing mature bucks, you are stuck on this 4.5 yr old buck. that wasn't the question. I think Lambeau summed it up to some extent.
you have to look at apples to apples and just any musky is not the same as a 4.5 yr old buck now is it?
In musky terms what is a 180 class whitetail? Maybe a 45 lber?
Are there guys that do each yr in and yr out. Yes.
if that is the bar, then would one need to calculate the hours needed to accomplish such a task?
imo they are about the same, it is just as easy to kill a deer (any deer) as it is to catch a musky (any sized musky). |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'Big difference. Refer back to Mikes Extreme post. Killing mature whitetails year to year doesn't even compare to catching muskies.'
Try catching a 50" fish every year in Oneida County. (within reasonable expectations)
Then kill a P&Y buck every year. (within reasonable expectations)
Both are very technical. Both are difficult.
Both take a huge commitment in time to do consistently.
Definitely in the 'same park'.
Shoot any buck every year.
Catch a few muskies every year.
Both are not as easy as it seems. Both can be easy, and incredibly difficult.
Same 'park'.
I used to trophy hunt for whitetails. Not so much, anymore, now I hunt for the experience, the venison, and the fact I love the sport.
I used to travel North America to hunt big muskies. Not so much anymore, now I fish muskies for the experience, the occasional Pike to eat caught while Muskie fishing, and the fact I love the sport.
One's success at mastering the technical aspects of either or both may be measured by one's personal goals and enjoyment, IMO. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | I agree with sworrall there.
Guest, refer back to my first post on this thread. I said,
'I believe hunting is harder if a guy is dedicated to killing just mature whitetails, one that is 4 1/2 years or older every year. If that's the goal of the hunter, then I believe that hunting is much harder than catching muskies hands down.' |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | Well no crap! Getting a supermodel to go out with you is a lot harder than getting a stout northwoods bar-maid to go out with you too. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | so many factors ... at first i thought .. duh, whitetails = more difficult for sure but then i thought about having access to the right land and then having the time to be there throughout the season at the right times.
no different than having the time and access to waters that consistently produce.
people who do well in either sport have the time, the resources and the access to the habitat that produce big fish/deer = period. |
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Posts: 676
Location: Wisconsin | Early Season Archery vs. 50" class fish. Right place, right time.
Mature bucks can be taken quite easy during rut. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | I agree sled.
Glad you get the point Flambeauski! Pretty sure that's what Mr. Koepp was trying to say also. |
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Location: Grinnell, Iowa | Flambeauski - 1/4/2010 3:16 PM
Well no crap! Getting a supermodel to go out with you is a lot harder than getting a stout northwoods bar-maid to go out with you too.
LMAO!!! What happens in the northwoods, stays in the northwoods!!! |
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Location: Sun Prairie, WI | This is a very broad based question. As others have alluded to, it depends on what kind of hunting and what kind of musky fishing we're talking about, i.e. catching ANY size musky or harvesting ANY size buck, but it also depends on the type of equipment used. With regards to hunting, equipment here depends upon gun vs. archery vs. muzzleloader. These can even be broken down into their individual segments (compound bow vs. crossbow vs. long bow) for example. Same with firearms...this can also be broken down into segments. Each provides its own opportunities and challenges. You can even break this down into various types of hunting, tree stand vs. spot & stalk. Same with fishing. You can break this down into casting vs. trolling vs. live bait, etc. What it boils down to IMO is what are you after with regards to your quarry, 50+" muskies vs. any size musky, or the 4 1/2+ year old 160+" buck vs. any size buck? This is the biggest determining factor in trying to answer the question. You really have to either compare 50+" muskies to 160+" deer or any size musky to any size deer to really determine which is more difficult, then factor in the type of hunting (tree stand or spot/stalk) or fishing (cast/troll/live bait) you're going to do. This is why I say it's a very broad based question and difficult to answer with just a generalization. IMO Mike Koepp gave a great answer to the question. |
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Posts: 133
Location: Duluth, MN | Everything has so many variables. Are you hunting public land or are hunting 200 acres of private land. What is the fishing pressure on the lake your on?
The bottom line is how complex do you want to make it and how you feel at the end of the day.
Bow hunting and muskie fishing do have things in common. I'm not going start a list.
I enjoy doing both. Some years I have the time to hunt trophy class deer and there has been years that I filled my tag with the 1st buck that I saw. I have several P&Y bucks and some close to making the book but I also have spikes on up.
When I'm muskie Fishing I enjoy caughting a 37" or a 50" fish.
Several years ago after day 2 of a muskie tournament I was talking to a team and they were heading to their tree stands. Both just started bow hunting and had mentioned they would be happy with shooting a doe. They have landed many trophy muskie.
This year I spent most of my hunting season(bow and gun) in a double ladder stand with my 12 year old son.
Bottom line is if you have to shoot a 4 1/2 year old buck every year or caught an x amount or certain size muskie every year your missing the little things..........
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Posts: 1120
Location: West Chester, OH | Partner whacked a small buck w/his tow vehicle as we were headed west of St Germain to get a steak. Was much easier than ANY musky I've ever caught, though the tow vehicle didn't take it so lightly.... |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | It's what you make it as someone else said. However, if I was to compare apples to apples, public land hunting and musky fishing on a public lake, I would say deer hunting is the answer to the question.
Either way arguing the facts here is just like the argument of what fish fights harder...a musky of a salmon. |
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Posts: 540
Location: MN | Either way arguing the facts here is just like the argument of what fish fights harder...a musky of a salmon.
Well I've got nothing better to do for 5 months...I say a Muskie fights harder;) |
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Posts: 1168
| TJ DeVoe - 1/4/2010 4:07 PM
'I believe hunting is harder if a guy is dedicated to killing just mature whitetails, one that is 4 1/2 years or older every year. If that's the goal of the hunter, then I believe that hunting is much harder than catching muskies hands down.'
My oldest brother begs to differ on the first part of your statement. He will appreciate the sentiment you have of him being able to do something nearly every year by sundown of Sunday of opening weekend that is deemed to be "hard." |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Have your oldest brother hunt the land we have to hunt, and we'll see how he does by Sunday of opening weekend. If he harvests a 4.5 year old buck in the first two days of season every year, he's either very good, or has a very good place to hunt...or both. Sort of like the anglers fishing the sweet spots across North America for 'big girls', they catch lots of 50" fish every year.
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muskie fishing more complex and technical than deer hunting?