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Posts: 40
Location: WI | I was informed of this earlier this week and saw this post on another website:
"In the last 24 hours I was informed that the Cass Lake Chamber of Commerce is going to have a vote amongst their members to see if they would like to have the spearing ban lifted on Cass Lake. From what I am told there is likely only one member of the Chamber that is against this.
Cass Lake, being a native muskellunge water is one of the few protected lakes we have in the state. Not only is it protected because of it being a native water, but it is an excellent fishery for bigger pike. For many reasons, we do not need to open this water up for spearing. There are many other opportunites in this area for spear fishermen.
I strongly encourage people to contact the Chamber of Commerce to voice your opinion against this. This vote is going to take place next Tuesday, January 5th. If they vote in favor, they will then pursue this with the DNR or perhaps another group that they feel can influence the DNR better than them. In my opinion, this needs to be stopped before it even gets off the ground.
Cass Lake Chamber of Commerce
105 US Hwy. 2
P.O. Box 548
Cass Lake, Minnesota 56633
Toll Free: 1-800-356-8615
Local Phone: 218-335-2250
Email: [email protected]
I just got done sending them an email of my own. But phones ringing off the hook against this would be great as well."
I have already called the Chamber and expressed my opinion. I urge you guys to do the same. Thanks. |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | This is a huge deal. I have no idea what the chances are that this might happen. But if it would, it's going to have a major trickle down effect. The Dark House Association will have a field day and will start going after each and every lake in the state that has a spearing ban in place, of which there are currently 26 or 27. If you remotely care about this issue at all, please take a minute to call or email to voice your concern. That's all it takes. I sent an email last night and received a response by email this morning. They even called me this afternoon. They're listening. The chamber is taking any feedback they receive to the board members when they have their meeting. They won't think twice if there's very little feedback against what they're looking to do. But maybe they'll think twice if they hear that there is a lot of opposition.
Ultimately, this would be the DNR's decision. But when things become political, you can no longer predict what direction things will go.
Aaron |
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| It does make one think about how other groups feel when expanding the muskie range with stocking new places. Lots of different groups of outdoorsmen with different interests...curious if people will actually debate or just insult each other....Snow |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | The thing about expanding the muskie range is that it will NOT result in taking away spearing on those lakes. This is what most spearers believe will happen and one of the reasons they are against expansion of muskie waters...the main reason for most, actually. When they find out this is not true, most change their tune.
Aaron |
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| Other groups have clear concerns similar to muskie fishermen concerns...equally important to their pursuits. That is the point, no desire to debate whether you are right or not, you have already made up your mind....Snow |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | I agree that all groups have their own concerns. No matter what the topic is, if these groups would look to where they have common ground first and to what's best for the resource, coming to an acceptable outcome would be a lot easier for all involved. Unfortunately, the first thing people usually look at are the differences, which creates immediate conflict. Bottom line should always be - what's best for the resource?
Aaron |
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| I encourage everyone here to please call and voice their opinion. I am calling tomorrow to get more details. |
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| Ive already called,,Hope other muskie Minnesotans do the same. would be nice to have their voice mail totally "stacked" with concerns about this when they replay their messages after new years. |
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| I've set a email yesterday and will be be calling today sometime. He!! if showing up the day of the vote I'll be there if thats what it takes. I just want to say thanks to the people who brought this vote to our attention before this ban lift could have slide by all of us. |
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Location: Watertown, MN | Snow there is actually a rountable with Muskie rep, Darkhouse, and DNR that talked about the Esox Long Range Plan. Not one sided, these meetings setup the long range plan. The one thing the want is the spearing ban lifted, bigger fish, and no slots. The spearing bans will not be lifted, the slots have proven effectinve in reserecting fisheries that were once over harvested, and protect the spawning years classes, to ensure good distribution in year classes. The only way to get bigger pike is not to harvest everyone and selective harvest, which slot and CPR does, but they want no part off it. The biggest inpact could be the walleye fishery after several years of removing top end northern and hammerhandles take offer the could severly hurt walleye hatches.
Troyz |
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | I am a musky fisherman by summer and spearer by winter. I am all for spearing cass, huge pike. I am more likely to spear a musky lake than a lake with a 24-36" slot. When in doubt you don't throw the spear. Simple process. I also got this in an email from muskies Inc. Musky waters are not the holy Grail. There are lots of other fish in them too. People are spearing on leech every day. It is still an exceptional musky lake. Walleye are also speared every year but you don't here the walleye guys going bananas. It is a fish people, not life or death. We don't close duck hunting because people shoot birds out of seasons. We shouldn't ban spearers because of a few bad apples. You punish the bad and take their rights away. I am curious as to how many of the no spearing advocates have tried it. You get the same adrenaline rush when a big pike swims through your hole as a musky follow during summer.
Edited by bassinbob84 1/1/2010 9:31 AM
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Grew up spearing.
Claiming that you are taking someone's rights away is a bit of a reach.
Nobody has the right to spear, it's a regulated activity just like every other aspect of hunting and fishing.
There are areas of our state where you can only bow-hunt. You don't see rifle hunters up in arms about thier rights being taken away.
We have C&R fisheries, is that taking people rights away?
We have areas where you can't drive ATV's or use motorized vehicles of any kind.
Some people just need to appreciate what then can do more and not worry about the few things they can't.
They also need to understand why things are the way they are, everyone can't do what they want all the time. We're all different and want to use our resources in different ways.
JS |
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | Well said js. My point is there is a lot of water and big pike on cass. It just seems most of the musky advocates seem to think musky waters should be off limits. I have gotten into this with a few guides as well. What makes one species better than the other? Spearing a 40" pike is more of a trophy for me than cathching a 50" ski. The pike would be on my wall the ski would obviously go back. Just because you see big pike doesn't mean you spear all of them either. I mostly take pickelers it selective harvest. You can spear on lakes in the cass chain just not cass. It doesn't make very much sense. |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
I'm not for or against lifting the ban based on muskies.
I put just as much value in a healthy pike fishery as any other kind of fishery.
I feel the decision should be made based on what the DNR feel is the best for long range pike management.
It's my understanding that the pike fishery is much more balanced with more mature pike than Cass had before the ban.
If that's the case then the whatever happens on Cass needs to ensure that the fishery doesn't go backwards.
MN has had it's pike populations go downhill over the decades and new regulations/protections have had dramatic affects on lakes that were hammer handle lakes.
How you can incorporate spearing into special regs or slots etc. is a problem the DNR will have to wrestle with and decide what to do based on what is best for the fishery.
JS |
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| that's exactly the right approach, John.
i support spearing in MN - it's another way to enjoy fishing and it has deep historical roots. it's still even pretty popular in certain areas of the state. i have family members who talk about it a lot like Bob here: the thrill of fishing paired with selective harvest. when i move to MN full-time at some point, i'm sure i'll try it out.
unfortunately, not everyone practices it that responsibly, and local harvest pressure can have a big impact on a single lake, especially with spearing which tends to target the largest fish available. this doesn't make spearing "bad", it just means that it needs to be regulated in a way that protects the fisheries - both pike and muskie.
there are some muskie lakes right now that co-exist with pike spearing, and there are some that clearly need protection. it's not an issue that's as simple as "always right on every lake" or "always wrong on every lake" and taking that stance eliminates the prospect of cooperation or negotiation such as what Troy describes at the long range plan meetings. advocacy is good, and people should definitely call or email to voice their opinion, but be open to the reality that pike and spearfishing is a part of the long range plan too...
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | I think what will hurt the northern and musky pop worse is that the dnr opened up spearing for non residents. If I am on a local lake I care what happens to it. If I travel 100 miles or 500 miles I want a trophy. There are going to be uneducated people throwing at everything that moves through their whole.
Lambeau if you are ever around leech in the winter hit me up. I would be more than happy to take a newbie spearing.
Edited by bassinbob84 1/1/2010 11:16 AM
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Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | john skarie - 1/1/2010 10:34 AM I'm not for or against lifting the ban based on muskies. I put just as much value in a healthy pike fishery as any other kind of fishery. I feel the decision should be made based on what the DNR feel is the best for long range pike management. JS This definitely summarizes my stance on it. Based on what I've seen first hand and what I've heard from more educated people than myself, I believe that a healthy pike fishery is more critical to the overall health of an entire fishery than any other species. Aaron |
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Location: Watertown, MN | I agree with you Bob on the non-resident, but that was passed because a Rep son cannot spear because he lives out of states. right choice. My fear is that opening Cass up to spearing will destroy the Big Pike population. I hope the Chamber talked the local fisheries rep.
Troy |
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Posts: 100
Location: Bemidji/Cass Lake | If it's illegal to spear a muskie, then spearing shouldn't be legal on lakes known to have reasonable muskie populations. I've seen a muskie speared before, a 39" that was mistaken for a pike. This was on the Cass Lake chain. I believe those that avidly spear that say they can tell the difference between the 2, but that's just not the case for the lesser practiced which there are plenty of. Mistakes are gonna happen, or in some cases it will be intentional. I've heard enough stories about somebody plucking one off on purpose, saying muskies eat all the walleyes so they're doing everyone a favor. That mentality still exists with some. There are so many more lakes without a muskie population, it just makes sense to have those that do, or at least the majority, absent of spearing completely.
Edited by Sackett 1/2/2010 1:42 AM
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | There are other lakes in the cass chain that are already open to spearing. There are also quite a few musky lakes not open to spearing. We don't see deer hunting closed in zones where deer have been poached. We don't see duck hunting closed even though lots of people shoot cavasbacks out of season thinking they are redheads. There are even musky fisherman that keep their fish ( gasp ) to eat. There needs to be a better defined line for spearing on the cass chain. You can spear andrusia but not cass. They connect and are right next to eachother. What sense does that make? |
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| Heres what I am trying to figure out, Cass Lake is probably one of the healthiest lakes in the state for all types of fishing. So why try and ruin it?????? It just doesn't make sense! If the pike are so big, there is obviously a reason for it! Lake Bemidji is a perfect example showing that spearing definitly does hurt the population of big pike and if Cass is opened watch out, because everybody and there brother will be headed there to slaughter these giants. We used to be able to go out on Bemidji in november and catch anywhere between 20-30 pike over 35" in a day Now your lucky to get one over 35! Then the spearers came and now all I hear about is complaning that nobody is seeing big pike in there spear holes anymore "DUH WHEN EVERYBODY SPEARS A 35-38 INCHER, A LAKE CANT HANDLE THAT"! Its not rocket science spearing kills fish that are vital to a lakes eco system! Why do you think Muskie fisherman practice catch and realease? Just two days ago I heard from two different people that they both speared 37 inchers "WHAT SENSE DOES THAT MAKE"? And yes both of them spear almost every day so they are not newbies! In my opinion go spear the lakes that are connected to cass, they hold the same genetics and same size fish! There is no reason to allow spearing on Cass, the lake is perfect right now! |
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| bassinbob84,
I'm curious what your take is on why the population of pike in Cass is so much better than the rest of the chain.
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Posts: 100
Location: Bemidji/Cass Lake | BassinBob, you are comparing unrelated species, and species that are managed for the full intention of having 100s and/or 1000s killed each and every year. Trophy pike and muskie do not fall into that category. The DNR ATTEMPTS to help manage deer, ducks, bears, geese, fish, etc on a basis of how much of the species can the resource afford to lose without major impact occurring. That is difficult to do, but better than doing nothing.
Big pike are fragile and tough to manage, and now we're adding in another fragile fish(muskie) that will suffer a small percentage of loss also that absolutely does not need to be incurred. The sizes we like these things to attain just dont happen without regulation these days. Cass Lake also has no stocking efforts either. Not that this is a great comparison, but we try to keep some of our forest/parks in as pristine a state as possible, or at least with minimal effects caused from man, doing the same with lakes is a great idea too, plus it shows results.
You also do not understand the fish movements on the chain. Big pike LIVE in Cass the majority of their time. There are far fewer over 10lbs in the chain lakes than Cass on it own. I've basically lived on and fished Andrusia for over 20yrs, and can 100% guarantee you that comparing the other lakes on the chain to Cass itself would cause plenty of inaccuracy.
Edited by Sackett 1/2/2010 12:49 PM
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | They are different lakes I agree. Each lake is it's has it's own ecosystem. As for why? I love to watch these big creatures. Apparently according to you guys I'm not the normal spearer. If I know a fish is over 20lb I'll spear 1 for the wall. Otherwise I try to spear 24-25" fish. I passed on a 13-14 Lb fish last weekend. Just watching her stalking around was enough to get my heart pounding. If I caught a 20lber with rod and reel it would go back. Without a doubt. Maybe a pic if I wasn't alone. That's it. I spear 1-3 days a week and have not speared a fish yet as I've been on big fish waters and have not seen a fish either big enough, small enough, or too small. |
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| I met with the director of the Chamber and the meeting is being held tonight. It is a closed meeting and not open to the public. An open meeting will be scheduled if they wish to move further.
The Darkhouse Association is pushing the resort owners into backing them for lobbying spearing to be opened on the main body of Cass. They are promising them a financial increase from the amount of spearers that will be on Cass if it is opened. Even though the major percentage of spearers on the area lakes are local. The MN DNR has not been contacted by the Darkhouse or the chamber for their input. This is something that can be quietly coat-tailed and passed by a representative much like the French Lake lift.
If you have not called or e-mailed please make it a point to do so before the meeting is held tonight.
Thanks,
Kevin Cochran
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| Is there any update on the meeting from last night? |
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| I don't have anything yet but will stop in and talk to the director today. |
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| By the way, the director had 7 pages of names from people that were not in favor of lifting the ban on spearing and 2 pages of people that were for lifting the ban.
All the calls and e-mails showed that the resistence to the lift was much stronger than the people in favor of it.
Thank you to all that took time to show their support.
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Here's a response someone forwarded me from the Chamber:
"The Chamber of Commerce has no affiliation with the Cass Lake spear fishing movement at this time and neither supports or condemns this movement in its current state." |
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| That was a mass e-mail that they sent to the majority of the people that e-mailed them. |
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Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | This topic isn't going to go away quietly.
http://www.casslaketimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=arti...
There's also a poll on their main page as to whether you would like to see the spearing ban lifted or not.
http://www.casslaketimes.com/
Aaron |
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| ...or contact Steve Ballou at Break on the Lake Resort...
Interesting. That resort has gotten a LOT of business from muskie fishermen over the years, including major tournaments and large group outings.
If muskie fishermen chose to go elsewhere, it seems to me that BOTL would actually suffer from this lost business much more than anything they'd gain from spearing being opened up on Cass. Spearing is much more local than muskie fishing.
Perhaps Mr. Ballou should hear from everyone about this? It would be particularly meaningful if it was from people who have actually stayed at that resort.
(218) 335-2422
(800) 443-5101
Email: [email protected]
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| I recommend giving him a call. The owner of Break on the Lake has received alot of business from musky fishermen and the blowback from this could be damaging to his business.
There is an an upcoming meeting scheduled for Feb. 23 at 7 p.m. at the Cass Lake American Legion. I will be there along with others from our Muskie Inc. chapter. If there is anyone that is willing to come up and give there support please call me at (507) 456-9023. I can arrange a place to stay. This will be a very important meeting to attend.
Thanks,
Kevin Cochran |
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Posts: 223
Location: Minn. | According to their poll right now. It is 60% for lifting the ban 40% for keeping it. I voted, hope others will as well. Here is a link to where you can vote.
http://www.casslaketimes.com/ |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I just voted. if everyone who reads this thread would vote, it'd be no by a wide margin. The poll is on the right side of the page; please look for it and vote one way or the other. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Voted, and maybe can make the meeting since I'm working a couple of hrs East of Cass..
Jerome |
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Location: deephaven mn | Just voted, margin is not so wide |
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| Looks like they changed the poll question... now its "Should spearing be open for everyone on Cass Lake?" Very loaded question in that it implies that spearing is already open and that there is a class being discriminated! Shame on the Cass Lake Times.
The last time I looked at the poll the gap had substantially closed between those for and against spearing on Cass lake (like 2 votes). I guess the Cass Lake Times did not like the results.
Edited by kustomboy 2/8/2010 11:47 AM
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Location: Watertown, MN | Spearing is open on Cass to Native Americans is my guess, I know they net the lake. I seen the article about $617,000 spent by legislature to build a dock in memory of a politician. Let the DNR do there work and keep the politicians out of the environment, I was hoping this issue would have gone away.
Troyz |
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Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | They actually started a new poll with that one. It definitely looks like the paper is anything but unbiased by essentially asking the same question, just worded differently. But the good thing is that this one should be even more overwhelming against it, as it takes away all of the yes votes that were there. It's currently 14 to 1 in favor of the No votes. Keep the votes coming. And vote again if you previously voted, as it's now a new poll.
Aaron |
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Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | I just sent the Times an email asking if they changed the poll question because of the way the results were going and I got an almost immediate response. This is what they said....
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NO- somehow the poll was modified online my yes and no were swapped and
the original posting date was set at Nov. 1999. long long b4 the Times
website existed. So I was told by our site manager to post a new poll
to see if there is a bug in the system. Since those two were somehow
swapped over the weekend I just now changed it. The previous poll would
have been 55 yes 45 no 1 no opinion. But thanks for voting and
noticing.
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Aaron |
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| this is a meaningless straw poll you guys should understand, the value comes in calling and e-mailing your own reps as well as the reps mentioned in the article. this is going to be slipped in on the game bill by one of these crack pot legislators, the Dnr will have nothing to do with it. its going to be part of lets make a deal in the wee hrs. |
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Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | Yet another follow up. I think the Cass Lake Times simply is in shock that there could be a large number of people against this. They think there's a bug in their system. I thanked them for their previous response and they immediately replied back with this.
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Aaron-
This latest poll is not going to be on long. I talked to the site
manager again because everything is messed up already in under an hour.
So any votes on this latest poll will be trashed after the problem is
figured out.
thanks again for voting,
Allan Olson
Cass Lake Times
Advertising Manager/Reporter
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I tried to ease his mind that there is nothing wrong with this poll in hopes that he keeps it up there. My response.
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I don't think there's anything wrong or messed up. This has just been
a hot topic around the state and people have been made aware of the
poll. So there's a lot of people checking it out and voting. I
wouldn't be concerned, as I really doubt there is a problem with your
system.
Thanks,
Aaron
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Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | the fish - 2/8/2010 12:32 PM
this is a meaningless straw poll you guys should understand, the value comes in calling and e-mailing your own reps as well as the reps mentioned in the article. this is going to be slipped in on the game bill by one of these crack pot legislators, the Dnr will have nothing to do with it. its going to be part of lets make a deal in the wee hrs.
I agree on all accounts. But it doesn't hurt to let folks know where popular opinion might be with a poll, even if it's relatively insignificant when it comes to the big picture.
Aaron |
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Posts: 223
Location: Minn. | Meaningless straw polls can be used to show or twisted in a way to be used for ones political views. Thus the reason for changing the poll question. |
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| If we just ignored this poll they would most definately waive it in the faces of those in opposition to lifting the spearing ban by saying "look we did a poll and the large majority of people wanted the ban lifted." Even if it is a meaningless straw poll we can let them know that we do not want this and more importantly take away the opportunity for them to use the poll as a basis for support of lifting the spearing ban.
Edited by kustomboy 2/8/2010 1:11 PM
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| If you want to help out in some way you can call me at (507) 456-9023.
This is a meeting that will need a strong number of people opposed to the ban being lifted to attend. |
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Posts: 335
Location: Minnesota | Everyone should make sure that they contact their Representatives and Senators about this if they feel strongly about it. When the dealing is done in the middle of the night, the only people who can do anything about it are our elected members. If they don't know anything about it, they might not care. If you send a few emails or make a few phone calls, they will think about that when they are passing legislation. Most constituents never contact their Representative or Senator and they really don't know how people stand on certain issues so make sure that this isn't one of the issues they know nothing about.
Edited by brmusky 2/8/2010 4:23 PM
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | This just in, the MDAA is going to try to get the legistature to remove ALL spearing bans in this session. Once we get the complete story we'll get the info out to you all to help us kill this thing. Rep Dill is one of the ones that will be pushing it is all I know right now. |
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| Hope your not busy for about 3 months Shawn... |
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| Those in favor of spearing jumped from about 9 votes this morning to 93 votes now and have substantially closed the gap. You can vote once a day. http://www.casslaketimes.com/index.php?option=com_poll&id=25:should... |
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Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | Actually, the Yes votes now have 56% of the vote. The spearers were obviously alerted of this and are making a stronger push than those against it. Keep voting. The poll allows you to vote each day.
http://www.casslaketimes.com/
A Yes vote is also a vote for back dooring the DNR and asking our legislature to manage our waters instead of people that are paid and trained to do this. Next thing you know, groups will be having the legislature stop stocking muskies.
Aaron |
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | AWH - 2/9/2010 9:37 AM
Next thing you know, groups will be having the legislature stop stocking muskies.
Aaron
Or stocking more  |
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Location: Bemidji, MN | This issue is not dead. I was informed yesterday that there will be another meeting in cass lake at the end of the month. I am not sure of the details yet, but I am sure someone will chime in and give some. The big fear here is that a group will bypass the DNR all together and get a rider put on a totally unrelated bill and get this thing passed.
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Location: Bemidji, MN | kustomboy - 2/9/2010 11:18 AM
Those in favor of spearing jumped from about 9 votes this morning to 93 votes now and have substantially closed the gap. You can vote once a day. http://www.casslaketimes.com/index.php?option=com_poll&id=25:should...
This pole is ridiculous, and we should all let the cass lake times know it. you can vote once on every IP you have access to, every day. that means once at work, once at home, once at school...... every day!
too bad we can't vote for politicians this way! |
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Location: Minn. | 1670 views on this topic but only 104 have voted No. How about some help for a GREAT fishery! |
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Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | J Nail - 2/9/2010 12:17 PM
I was informed yesterday that there will be another meeting in cass lake at the end of the month. I am not sure of the details yet, but I am sure someone will chime in and give some.
February 23rd, 7:00 pm, at the American Legion in Cass Lake. It would send a strong message if everyone that can make it is there. It's becoming even more than just a spearing issue with their willingness to go straight to the legislature without caring what the DNR says on the matter.
You can also send this newly formed CLIFS organization an email at [email protected] to explain to them how this will hurt area businesses rather than help them as they think will happen.
Aaron
Edited by AWH 2/9/2010 12:37 PM
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Location: Minnesota | The meeting on the 23rd is a meeting of CLIFS - Cass Lake Initiative For Spearing. It doesn't appear to be a chamber of commerce meeting or anything like that so it might be entertaining to go but I am not sure what would be accomplished other then find out who is pushing this and talk to them in person.
Check out clifs.org if you are interested to see what they have going so far. The website is in development and there isn't much on there but I am sure mre will be added soon. |
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| Just voted again and it says that 6450 people are in favor of it and 111 oppose it! Obviously something is a little screwy! The most important thing that any of us can do is show up at the meeting in a very large number and get this thing stopped. Showing up in great numbers is much more effective than some bogus poll that is obviously being cheated with those types of numbers. Mike Hope to see yah all there. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | That poll is A bunch of Bull......!! This mourning the yes voters was 9 people, .....What an utterly ,srcewed up mess.
Politcs at its finest
Jerome |
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Posts: 291
Location: Madison, WI | Crawford - 2/9/2010 1:34 PM
Just voted again and it says that 6450 people are in favor of it and 111 oppose it! Obviously something is a little screwy! The most important thing that any of us can do is show up at the meeting in a very large number and get this thing stopped. Showing up in great numbers is much more effective than some bogus poll that is obviously being cheated with those types of numbers. Mike Hope to see yah all there.
Yeah, I noticed that one too. I voted this morning and it looked pretty legit. Me thinks someone at the ole' Cass Lake Times might be "adjusting" the numbers or someone figured out how to fudge the numbers. So Im guessing they would take that poll down "immediately" because that cant be right. Just like they did yesterday when it favored the No crowd. Right.
Does that site even get 6450 hits a day? Funny stuff. |
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| Wow, that is a rigged poll.  |
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Posts: 444
| I was watching the poll close, bored at work, and it jumped up to the 6000 votes in ten minutes.
Unreal. |
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Posts: 256
| I was watching it as well and I was shocked at how fast it went up. Definately something screwy was going on. |
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| I assume the straw poll information will be shown to those that are lobbying for the ban to be lifted. They will see the 6,000 plus votes as the general public in favor of having the ban lifted which will give them incentive to make the "majority" happy.
If the Cass Lake Times is behind this it is pretty sad. I will stop in there after work tomorrow and try to figure this out.
Cochran |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Are there even 6000 people in Cass county?
Horse crap politics, is the poll ! |
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| Human Body's, Calls, Letters and E-mails.
Internet Polls are cartoons in a cartoon world. |
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Posts: 100
Location: Bemidji/Cass Lake | Looks like you may get some response form the website creators or supporters on their blog. I posted a comment and probably will do more. I set up an account thru google very easily, if you wanna write something you'll see what that means. Go to www.clifs.org if you wish to do so.
Edited by Sackett 2/9/2010 11:46 PM
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Posts: 256
| I've already found two different ways around the once a day voting restriction. This poll was clearly hacked. All you need to do is either clear your cookies or use a webproxy. But based on the numbers of votes so quickly (and the complete lack of votes since) I'm guessing they used a voting bot program.
Edited by kustomboy 2/10/2010 7:42 AM
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Posts: 189
Location: Barrington, Il | Why don't the resorts get together and push ice fishing for the big northerns? At least they can be released. |
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Posts: 256
| I honestly don't know what the resorts expect to gain from this. Last year only about 4,000 spearing licenses were sold state wide. It may get them a few extra bookings during the winter but those bookings could be made up by actually promoting and advertising the ice fishing season. I go to numerous sports shows and honestly don't ever remember seeing any resorts from Cass Lake. The means don't seem to justify the ends in this instance. Plus, the resorts pushing this will most likely lose any muskie fishing business as a result of this. I know that I will never stay at any of those resorts if I go to Cass Lake and will make sure everyone I know boycots them as well. |
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Posts: 256
| So this has obviously really gotten to me....
Doesn't anyone find it weird that more people have voted in this poll for the opening of spearing than bought spearing licenses last year? |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | kustomboy - 2/10/2010 9:49 AM
I honestly don't know what the resorts expect to gain from this. Last year only about 4,000 spearing licenses were sold state wide. It may get them a few extra bookings during the winter but those bookings could be made up by actually promoting and advertising the ice fishing season.
That 4,000 number in the article was not correct, it's higher than that. Here are actual annual license sales in the state through 2008.
http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/rlp/licenses/historical_licenses.xls
But either way, I completely agree with your assessment.
Aaron |
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| Hey fellas, I'm a Virginia musky nut and just read this thread. Please explain to me how this spearing is done. From what I'm reading, you sit around a hole in the ice and throw a spear when the fish swims by. Is that correct? What do the spears look like? Thanks and good luck stopping this in Cass. |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | Guest, you've got the idea. Here's a video that will help give you a better picture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWXFBT9gC5c
Aaron
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Posts: 256
| Aaron:
Thanks for the link to the license sales info. It always helps to have the correct numbers. |
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Posts: 100
Location: Bemidji/Cass Lake | Most spears look similar to a trident but with a couple extra tines. Throwing the spearing takes some skill and practice. A big hole, usually square or rectangle is cut inside a darkhouse. Spearing usually takes place in fairly clear water in less than about 12ft of water. A hookless decoy(giant daredevil perhaps) or large live sucker is used to call fish in. Typically when pike approach they size up their prey a bit and it's during this time a shot presents itself. The fish doesn't know you are above them and are very vulnerable.
Edit: AWH's posted video is perfect
Edited by Sackett 2/10/2010 11:05 AM
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Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | AWH - 2/10/2010 10:48 AM
kustomboy - 2/10/2010 9:49 AM
I honestly don't know what the resorts expect to gain from this. Last year only about 4,000 spearing licenses were sold state wide. It may get them a few extra bookings during the winter but those bookings could be made up by actually promoting and advertising the ice fishing season.
That 4,000 number in the article was not correct, it's higher than that. Here are actual annual license sales in the state through 2008.
http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/rlp/licenses/historical_licenses.xls
But either way, I completely agree with your assessment.
Aaron
Hey thanks for this spreadsheet. Very interesting stuff. Fishing & outdoor activities are definetly on the decline.
Edited by dtaijo174 2/10/2010 11:27 AM
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| Hello
I am from Pa. Spearing is illegal, but after watching the spearing video it does not seem any different than ice fishing really. Am I missing something on this subject. |
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| As I see It u drill holes in ice set bait and wait for prey. But u can elect to throw the spear where in ice fishing u cannot elect to hook unintential species. was looking for explanation not confrontation. |
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| simple fisherman - 2/10/2010 11:34 AM
Hello
I am from Pa. Spearing is illegal, but after watching the spearing video it does not seem any different than ice fishing really. Am I missing something on this subject.
First, I would say the major difference is a speared fish won't be released, won't spawn ever again and will never be enjoyed by another angler. That is the first and major difference.
Second, not all fish that come in and look at a sucker on a quick strike rig will eat. Take the first fish in that video. Came in and looked and then left. I have heard it takes some skill to throw a spear, but from that video it looks like the fish came under the hole and he threw the spear straight down. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
Thrird, with spearing they can selectively harvest the largest fish in the system, though most will convince you that they only spear to eat and maybe a trophy if it comes through.
Couple weeks ago a guy speared a 25lb pike and 22lb pike w/in a couple days of each other. What exactly is the point of taking those two fish? Can someone please explain that to me? I guess I am probably asking the wrong group. You can count me in to be at the meeting at the end of February unless something major comes up. |
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| We will need all the help we can get on this subject. I am meeting with the reporter from Cass Lake sometime this week in an attempt to clarify a few things. The more people against spearing that show up to the meeting in February the better.
After this weekend there will be a plan developed to combat this issue. Look for a plan of action on here soon.
Cochran |
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| Aaron and Sackett, thanks for the video and info. Obviously spearing is harvest and ice fishing can be catch and release or harvest...big difference there between the two methods. I'm glad we don't have to contend with spearing down here on the rivers I fish. |
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Posts: 256
| Spearing is a very touchy subject in MN. There are many who would like to see it banned completely and many who feel that their rights are being violated because they can't spear on approximately 50-70 lakes out of over 10,000 lakes and there are some inbetween those two positions. The strongest argument I've heard is that spearing should be allowed because of its long standing tradition. The simple fact is that just because something has been done for a long time does not necessarily make it right. |
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| Not 50 to 70 lakes that have a spearing ban try 26.
Now they want those 26 lakes. If Cass falls then everything that touches the Mississippi will eventually. Huge problems if this goes through. |
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Posts: 3147
| isnt anybody gonna jump in and say
"lets work with the spearers" with the background music of John Lenons "Imagine"
like in years past,,or have we finally learned our lessons |
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Posts: 256
| Unfortunately, it seems like its time to take the gloves off. I know that compromises were made in the Long Range Plan to keep the spearers happy and it seems like while the muskie groups have lived with those compromises the spearing associations have no intention to stick with them. |
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Kustomboy, there were no compromises made in the long range plan, Muskies Inc took the stance that we were not going asked for additional waters to be added to the list of lakes that cannot be speared, and we were not in favor of removing this ban on any of these lakes.
Troy |
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Posts: 256
| Thanks for the clarification Troy. I had heard that in exchange for getting the new muskie lakes the compromise was that no additional lakes would be added to the no spearing list. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | We thought by adding that statement they would be less likely to stand up against the stockings. I may have by a small amount, but it raised more issues then it really solved whether we would have pursued a ban or not. |
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| The poll on the Cass Lake Times website was taken down. There were alot of complaints of it being tampered with. |
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Posts: 3147
| they have CLIFFS,,?
how bout we start -"PEAKS"
People
entirely
against
kill
spearing 
Living here in Minn and also gauging the 'tude' at our last MI meeting muskie people are fed up with dealing/negotiating with the spearers
they have vowed that at every new lake proposal they will show up and oppose it regardless of specifics
and at the meetings they do take part in they sit, listen, and then if they dont get EVERYTHING their way they recruit a legislator to push their plan in some hidden bill over the DNR's head.
they rig public polls
so with that stance what is there to negotiate with them about????
and the reason they do this and KEEP doing it is because we 'counter punch' with them and dispute their claims maybe if we started going on the offensive an land a few punches instead of taking them we can give them something to put their energy into
I for one will be glad to take part in ANY group that wants to PUSH a statewide BAN on spearing,,at least the threat of it should give them something to direct their energy at.
Edited by happy hooker 2/11/2010 10:11 AM
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| I think its time to get PETA behind this issue. Lets see them get anywhere with them present. PETA is great for just jamming stuff up and making it almost impossible for getting something accomplished. Not only that but i'm sure they are freaking out about poor little innocent northerns get SPEARED WITH THE GIANT STEEL TINES! lol just a thought |
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| Hooker,
Amen! I agree it's way over due.
Dave |
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| I am bringing up building a website at the Minnesota Muskie Alliance meeting on Saturday that will show the public the negative impact spearing has on fisheries. I am willing to donate money, lures or whatever it takes to get it off the ground.
Cochran
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Waaaaaaaayyyyyyy ahead of you C. |
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Meeting to open Spearing on Cass Lake, MN