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Posts: 375
| for those that have not noticed, some on this site have expressed interest about their rods "changing action" over time. since we muskytiers spend boocoo bucks, how about you rod selling folks come clean! list the rods you sell / recommend and also tell us all how long you warrant that they will be the same "action" rod x many years from now as they are when we buy them new. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | Here's an example of why the "action/power warranty" won't work. I buy a rod, use for 2 years and then claim the action has changed. Give me a new rod. All a rod manufacturer can do is guarantee their rod can throw a lure specified in the lure rating with the line specified. Everything else is personal preferance. If brand X loses power over 2 years, buy brand Y next time.
P.S. Calling out manufacturers who have no history of posting on this or any other site won't get your questions answered.
Edited by Flambeauski 12/16/2009 2:54 PM
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| If I reply are you going to turn this into a """"Buy American"""" thread and tell us all why you won't buy anything from China? |
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Posts: 8773
| I've never heard of a rod "changing action". And... How would one quantify that, anyway? When it comes to warranties, companies can't be expected to cover something that is just plain worn out. That's like saying "we'll replace your rod for free no matter what as long as you own it..." That, to me, sounds like a perfect way to put yourself right out of business, and some actually have.
In any case... "Changing action"?? Which way does it change? What happens to the graphite? Maybe it's the power that changes and not the action? or does the thickness of the tip change?
And whose responsibility would it be if that were to happen? Aren't a lot of rod manufacturers out there using the same blanks?
There's something I am not understanding here... |
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Posts: 540
Location: MN | The 8'6" big dawg that I got last year was mutch softer this year than last & when I bought a new big dawg this spring it was stiffer than last years. So I do think over time the rod getg a little softer. |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Answer: Fishing rod Viagra.
If your fishing rod stays at the action you find stiffer for four hours or longer or your rod suddenly can't see or seems to be losing it's ability to hear, take it to a rod doctor, as in, you know...the dock.
Sorry. |
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| The only musings I've heard of such things were regarding the old Sage blanks. They were said to get a bit "slower" action with age, age meaning EXTENSIVE use. This was also claimed to be a good thing , especially when fighting fishes and these folks cpr'd many fishes on the Happy Place(LOTW).With modern methods and materials, I doubt one could tell the difference even if a blank did get slower over years of extensive use. Those blanks you have will give you years of enjoyment. Now call Frankie! LOL. Seriously, rod buyers , custom or commercial, should not have to ever worry about rods "softening" with time and quite frankly(no pun intended) ten years down the road you'll be the joke of the office for the day when you want a rod replaced under warranty because it became "soft". LOL. No worries. |
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | GMC just gave me a new truck 2 months ago after I told them I was unhappy that the odometer went past 100,000. I think its broke!  In all honesty I have never felt my musky rods get softer. At least that I can tell. I have a Diamondback Musky VIP I have used for 5+ years and its still the same rod to me as day one. BTW-5 year warranty on my rods. 6 lines and 6 more lines coming in new colors in 2010. Anyone like Hot Pink Camo musky rods Well, I hope you do because thats one of the colors. Still working on a few things. |
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Posts: 8773
| sworrall - 12/16/2009 5:53 PM
Answer: Fishing rod Viagra.
If your fishing rod stays at the action you find stiffer for four hours or longer or your rod suddenly can't see or seems to be losing it's ability to hear, take it to a rod doctor, as in, you know...the dock.
Sorry.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
You know... I don't know about you Steve, but if that four hour thing happens to me? I'm not calling the doctor, I'm calling EVERYONE!
Wel... exept maybe my mom, LOL!
Another thread right down the drain...
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | Tackle Industries - 12/16/2009 6:58 PM
GMC just gave me a new truck 2 months ago after I told them I was unhappy that the odometer went past 100,000. I think its broke! In all honesty I have never felt my musky rods get softer. At least that I can tell. I have a Diamondback Musky VIP I have used for 5+ years and its still the same rod to me as day one. BTW-5 year warranty on my rods. 6 lines and 6 more lines coming in new colors in 2010. Anyone like Hot Pink Camo musky rods Well, I hope you do because thats one of the colors. Still working on a few things.
Mark me down for one of them pink ones. My
girlfriend would love it. Its hard finding girly rods and reels for her. Will these rods be in 8'6" or 9'? |
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Posts: 540
Location: MN | Though I didn't think rod action would change over time, I'm not a rod engineer. Therefore, I forwarded your question to Jason Brunner, the senior engineer/blank designer at St. Croix.
Here is Jason's response:
"It is possible that a rod can lose power over time, but it highly depends on how the rod was used over that time period. Because of the the elasticity of modulus or what is commonly called 'stress strain ratio', a carbon rod could lose power or become softer when it is put under a load that exceeds its elasticity or strain. Micro fracturing starts to occur in the carbon fiber when it is stretched beyond its elongation percentage. If a rod is subjected to these excessive loads beyond its ability it will lose power over time. This is the technical answer that applies to the dynamics of the structure from an engineering standpoint. From a realistic standpoint, a rod could lose power but it is very slight and most likely undetectable to the user. In most cases, breakage would occur if the rod is subjected to micro fracturing too often. I don’t believe it’s and issue any fisherman should be concerned with."
I copied this from another site this is a St. croix engineer /blank designer thoughts on the subject. |
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Posts: 742
Location: Grand Rapids MN | I know my rod has changed slightly since I've started using it and yes I could have quantified it if that was my intent to begin with but it's to late now. I've learned to stay out of these topics because I've learned over time people want exact answers and once you present them they tend not to believe it. Jason's response covered material properties pretty well without all the techno-jargin'. All materials have what is refered to as the elastic range on the modulus curve. Ideally if you keep the stress/strain in this range the material will fully return to its original position but we "engineers" understand that there is always very small percentage lose each time the material is loaded. This is why he brought up micro cracking as a culprit for rods and that there is a difference but usually not noticeable. Once you go past this elastic range then perminant defermation occurs (stress cracks, elongation, etc). This means the material will not 'spring' back into shape. If loading continues then sudden failure occurs. I do not believe anyone has loaded these rods past their elastic range but depending on the usuage it is not 100% returned to original. I use mine for #10's/#13's, 11" Curly Sues and trolling 14" Jakes, 13" Believers, 11" Mag Shads... a lot of heavy pulling, hard shaking lures so I wasn't suprised that I noticed a slight change. Do I think this softening will continue... no I don't think so just because of my understanding of materials. As someone said previously... I just put her through the "break-in" period.. now its ready for the long haul! |
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Posts: 540
Location: MN | Thank you Mike you said what i was trying to say yesterday. If we use these huge baits they stress the rods and ''break in''. All i know is that my rod is diffrent than when i bought it. |
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Posts: 76
Location: Bartlett IL | From a post about Rod Characteristics Over Time on rodbuilding.org
“I have long believed that casting rods that exhibit twist under heavy loads are apt to wear/fail sooner than say, spinning or fly rods. But I'm not aware of any actual tests that have been done to prove this. I certainly haven't done any.
Even still, carbon fiber itself is known for a very long general fatigue life. Much more so than fiberglass.
And we haven't even discussed the resin used to hold everything together - that has a life too, and also degrades both as it ages and as it endures stress as well.
This is a very involved subject but to go right to your point - yes, all fishing rods will soften over time and with use. Some materials will become noticeably softer in a relatively short period of time, while others will withstand hundreds of thousands, even millions, of "cycles" before the human hand would ever be able to tell the difference.”
His comments fit well in this thread.
I haven’t seen anyone mention all the variables when it comes to building blanks. The design, the quality of materials, the entire manufacturing process including how much experience the workers have and the quality controls just to name a few.
There’s an episode of ‘How It’s Made’ about a rod being built from start to finish at the Winston fly rod factory. Even though it’s very short and simplified it shows the worker’s skills that are necessary to build each blank. It’s a very hands on process and this could explain differences within the same manufacturer.
On top of that, his first point about the effects of twisting and changes in the blank. This would be exaggerated if the rod were not built on the spine. For the sake of appearance most rods are built on the straightest axis rather than the spine.
Just a couple thoughts, hope it helps.
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rod "pushers" / "pro staffers" / "manufacturer reps" please respond!