|
|
Posts: 676
Location: Wisconsin | http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/70573047.html They really should have broke any connection to the lakes completely. The electric barrier was a joke....
Edited by Muskiemetal 11/20/2009 8:02 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 8775
| Well... We knew it was only a matter of time. You can't expect them to just shut down the canal over a fish. It's unfortunate, but at this point there is little that can be done, I'm afraid. Best bet would be to come up with an exotic name for them and start selling the #*#* in trendy restaraunts with a high price tag. Do that and they'll be in danger of extinction within a decade. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2361
| Ship em to China.
We owe them some lead and heavy metals. What better way. Stress the fact that these fish have more powers as an aphrodisiac than shark fins.
Heck, sell em to Slamr under that guise. He'll be a big buyer!  |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | They are going to poison the river.
"Thomas said the plan to poison the canal is going to have to grow to cover areas above the barrier, which is about 20 miles downstream from the Lake Michigan shoreline."
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1451
Location: Kronenwetter, WI | I'm thinkin' nukes. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2361
| dtaijo174 - 11/20/2009 12:20 PM
They are going to poison the river.
"Thomas said the plan to poison the canal is going to have to grow to cover areas above the barrier, which is about 20 miles downstream from the Lake Michigan shoreline."
Why skip the upper 20, no reason to believe they aren't in it already.
Besides, we are talking the Illinois River here, uhm, how exactly can you poison that? Or do they mean they are going to poison it EVEN MORE!  |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | firstsixfeet - 11/20/2009 1:37 PM
dtaijo174 - 11/20/2009 12:20 PM
They are going to poison the river.
"Thomas said the plan to poison the canal is going to have to grow to cover areas above the barrier, which is about 20 miles downstream from the Lake Michigan shoreline."
Why skip the upper 20, no reason to believe they aren't in it already.
Besides, we are talking the Illinois River here, uhm, how exactly can you poison that? Or do they mean they are going to poison it EVEN MORE! : )
Rotenone is pretty impressive. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8775
| Their going to poison the sanitary and ship canal, Noooooo!!
LMAO, I've always liked the signs at the launches that say "no swimming allowed. Do not ingest water, and avoid contact with eyes and skin. I case of accidental contact, etc..." And then you see folks FISHING, on shore, with buckets that you KNOW are taking home with them and eating the #*#*... WOW. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4266
| Didn't they use Rotenone to subdue The Creature from The Black Lagoon"? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 101
| Maybe the Feds with all their wisdom and TARP economic recovery act funds can bread a super muskie they can stock to eat all the carp??? |
|
| |
|
| glad to see you guys taking it serious, its just a matter of time before they reach Northern Wisconsin rivers and lakes, then Minnesota, then Canada. |
|
| |
|
| This is exactly why you can't transport big suckers to different lakes around MN. Because nobody can predict what is going to happen when you introduce a fish to a lake it isn't native to. Let this be a lesson and fine example to the guys that want to bend the rules. Like it or not, the fisheries guys know what they are doing, too bad they are held back by politics.
Also, Rotenone is pretty wicked stuff. When/If they do this, EVERY fish in the canal will be belly up. Invasive or not. It's too bad it has come to this. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | jokes... really? - 11/21/2009 1:49 PM
glad to see you guys taking it serious, its just a matter of time before they reach Northern Wisconsin rivers and lakes, then Minnesota, then Canada.
Jokes.....really? Yeah, why not? What would you like people to do? Drive down in droves with spears, grenades, TNT, bows and arrows, rifles, shotguns and any other weapons you can dream up and try and wipe these things out? God forbid people joke about something. Fact of the matter is invasive species are incredibly difficult to combat. Plain and simple. Not much the average guy on here can do about it. Lighten up.
To the other guest talking about Rotenone: You are correct that it makes everything go belly up. Hence where politics come into play. Many anglers will pee and moan that it will kill all 'their' fish, yet out of the other side of their mouth they will pee and moan that the fisheries people aren't doing enough to stop the invasive fish. The other problem with rotenone, while effective, is it is fairly costly and only kills the fish in the river at that time. If there is nothing stopping the invasive carp from moving back into the stream, you can bet that they will make it back. So you can see where this is very difficult for the fisheries guys to manage. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 556
| Heard this on the local news here in chicago yesterday--I have witnessed their jumping first hand on the ILL RIVER---Terrible thing to think what might happen to the great lakes---I support anything they can do to try and stop this--It will be devastating to lake michigan in 10 years if they make it there. Very sad!!! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3862
| The biggest threat to the great lakes is/are, by far, the nuke plants along the shores. Invasive species are part of evolution, read yer Darwin. Actually, nuke plants fit within Darwin; as a species we're doing ourselves in due to short-sighted, greedy selfishness. We continue to play a losing hand with the nuke plants. Anyone who argues that the benefits outweigh the risks are not looking past next week. We learned NOTHING from Fermie 1 melt-down. We built a duplicate (Fermie 2) right friggin next to the one that we covered with a concrete toumb. Of course you can't cover a zillion year fire with bricks and expect it to be safe, like Chernobyl, Fermie 1 continues to burn. It will never be safe, Fermie 1 remains out of control by any reasonable stadards.
You want to protect the Great Lakes? Shut down nuke plants that are located right next to the waters.
So relax about invasive species. In the long run the Great Lakes will be toxic beyond belief by our own hands. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8775
| jokes... really? - 11/21/2009 1:49 PM
glad to see you guys taking it serious, its just a matter of time before they reach Northern Wisconsin rivers and lakes, then Minnesota, then Canada.
Yes, jokes... REALLY.
See what sort of videos you can dig up on Asian carp/Silver carp. Read a bit about what they have done and can do. It's not difficult to imagine the possible ramifications of this.
It's also not difficult to figure out that there is little any of us can do about this one, if anything at all. We're not talking about washing off your boat trailer to prevent the spread of milfoil, or not using rusties for bait, or preventing the spread of zebra mussels.
So what are we supposed to do, cry? Throw our arms in the air and lament about how the world is coming to an end? I'm with Ranger on this one. If you're all worried about the great lakes, take two hours out of a day of your life, and do some research on what our industries and our cities are putting in there ON PURPOSE. If you want to worry about something, worry about the mercury that's in the fish you are feeding your family, from the coal fired power plants you need to run your flat screen TV. Worry about the particulate matter in the air you breathe from the trucks that bring the goop you eat to McDonalds, or the chemicals and such coming out of your kitchen faucet. Worry about the hormones in your beef, the pesticides on your produce, the chemicals and preservatives in the food you eat every single day of your life... Think about how your wife's birth control pills find their way right back into the water you drink..
If none of that works for you?? Think about the fact that muskies are an invasive species, introduced by US, in most of the places we fish for them.
I don't like what's going on in my backyard. And I don't like the possible outcomes for what may happen down the road in my other backyard down the road. But if I worried about stuff like this, and took it too seriously? I'd have put a rope around my neck by now...
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 170
Location: Chicagoland | How successful will the bighead and silver carp be in lake michigan? Obviously they have flourished in warm, fertile waters with current, but how will these dopes fare when there out in open water? I love our waters and would hate to see some federal government lab test ruin a great thing. They screwed this up, they should fix it.
I still think they should just put a huge food processor blade in the Chicago Canal and make some Little Lisa Slurry! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2865
Location: Brookfield, WI | Live2Fish - 11/22/2009 11:55 AM
I still think they should just put a huge food processor blade in the Chicago Canal and make some Little Lisa Slurry!
You, sir, are my friend.
Carry on.
Kevin |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Good post Willie. You'd fit in at Point. Hope my PM was helpful for you. If you do decide to go there let me know and I can recommend some classes and profs for you. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1220
| I don't mind the jokes. Folks often resort to humor to react to something they are scared of or don't understand. I'm just glad a lot of folks are scared because it is a justified fear. It's scary enough to bring to bear a whole lot of power, political and finacial. It was actually pretty predictable that it would not get dealt with in a serious fashion until it was believable enough to be perhaps too late. So, it is perhaps too late...but maybe not. I'm guessing not! I just hope that if there is a place to show up, a thing to do, a letter to send or a few bucks to donate that we will do those things......just like we are all pulling the drain plugs every time we leave a ramp to help prevent VHS...yea right! Marty Forman |
|
| |
|
Posts: 295
Location: Southern Ontario, Detroit River and Lake StClair | They are already here..........my son shot one (out of a group of 3) with his bow in River Canard last spring here in Southern Ontario off the Detroit River. He identified it in 7 different pictures, showed me the remains if it and I identified it and then we took pictures of it and sent them to the Ontario MNR and the Invasive species hot line and got " it sure looks like one but it can't be because they aren't around here so it must be something else..........but we don't know what". Well I'm telling ya at least one made it and if one made it others will or already have.
Good Fishin'
Tim
Edited by Roughneck1860 11/22/2009 2:32 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 170
Location: Chicagoland | Thanks for the reply Mike. I got my app in and I have talked to Sue Kissinger. She was very nice and informative at my interview, and it seems like Treehaven would be a blast. I'll PM you as questions and stuff pop into my head |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1462
Location: Davenport, IA | I live 3 miles from the Illinois river where these things are everywhere...I don't think the impact on fishing has been that bad. They would be a pain as a commercial fisherman, but I don't think most of us on here are. |
|
| |
|
| Guest I love the sucker transport analogy. Last I checked suckers are native to MN lakes. LOL |
|
| |
|
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Maybe they will be extremely susceptible to VHS and it will be their downfall. Wouldn’t it be nice if for once a disease imported by dirty ballast water wiped out an invasive?
One can dream can’t he?
Tim - I would love to see a photo of that fish your son shot. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 170
Location: Chicagoland | Exhale, Guest |
|
| |
|
Posts: 136
Location: Chicago | looks like fun !!! cant wait !!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS7zkTnQVaM&feature=relatedhttp://ww...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJoXw9XZ238&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdcQ56OpxNE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwMSy7xK218&feature=related
Edited by rob.s 11/24/2009 12:01 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 8775
| Anyone with a few minutes to spare should check out the videos Rob.s posted above.
Looks like the DNR is going to try Rotenone after all...
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1911913,dnr-asian-carp-kill-1130...
As I understand it, these measures are simply to keep them from moving upstream while they shut down the electronic barrier for maintenance. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | Watch the youtube videos... scary stuff. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 462
Location: Antioch, IL | If I heard the radio correctly, today is the day they will use the Rotenone. I'd wish I could be around and see what bellies up.
Edited by Fish and Whistle 12/1/2009 1:48 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 8775
| Update:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_great_lakes_asian_carp |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8775
| The plot thickens...
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/12/state-to-wage-chemical-w...
No carp? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN |
Read the comments below the article. Amazing how different our perspective is from theirs. Most people are saying "let the fish in." They are so ignorant.
Where can I donate to help out pay for more rotenone? Hit the reset button.
Edited by dtaijo174 12/3/2009 1:23 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 8775
| Yeah, Chicago liberals, I tell 'ya. They want to save the poor fishies, because who are we to decide what swims where.
They forget about the fact that Asian Carp are an invasive, we brought them here, the Chicago River used to flow into Lake Michigan until the Army Corps of Engineers reversed the flow so the sewage and pollution would flow away from the lake and not into it, and that the sanitary and ship canal that connects the Missisippi and Illinois rivers to Lake Michigan is manmade. There's not one part of the equation that isn't manmade, including the channel these fish are in, and some idiot wants to "let nature take its course..."
Uh-huh. I suppose they'd refuse treatment if they had cancer too, right? Just "let nature take its course", right?
*sigh* I guess I shouldn't expect a clear understanding of nature from people who have only seen it on TV...
Attachments
----------------
 dumpster.jpg (17KB - 128 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Location: Illinois | NO Asian carp turning up so far........
http://www.prairiestateoutdoors.com/index.php?/pso/article/fish_dyi... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Is there a barrier down stream preventing the carp from moving outside the hot zone? Or perhaps they're all in Lake Michigan already |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8775
| Man, I wonder how much mercury is in that dumpster... Channel catfish and carp, out of a place like that? Wow. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 136
Location: Chicago | asian carp found . click the upper right box for video
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/asian.carp.poisoning.2.1347421.html |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8775
| They found ONE. Of course all it takes is one full of eggs. There are now talks about shutting down the canal until they can figure out what to do next. I'd be surprised to see that happen, but it would be an effective way to stop them.
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/12/feds-consider-temporaril... |
|
| |
|
| Ranger, Do you have any clue what you are talking about when it comes to nuke plants? Meltdowns are not possible in a modern plant, even if all humans died today the plant would not melt down. |
|
| |
|
Location: Illinois | Nuke the Asian Carp!
I argued with a fella today who argued Rotenone did not dissipate. Is there a good reason NOT to trust the state biologists?
You had to use it while working on the electric barrier, which they believe will stave them off. The state of Michigan is suing Illinois to dam the river? |
|
| |
|
| Close the canal. There is a still open lawsuit that will facilitate this. It is already in the works. Let Chicago deal with the sewage the right way. The loss of shipping isn't worth the loss of the Great Lakes and connecting waters. FILL IN THE CANAL BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE !!!! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 136
Location: Chicago | http://www.wgntv.com/news/wgntv-asiancarplawsuit-dec09,0,3148150.st...
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/12/minnesota-ag-keep-asian-...
Edited by rob.s 12/29/2009 11:08 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 3862
| The old Palisades nuke plant is on the shore of Lake Michigan in the county where I live, about 40 miles from my house. A few years ago the last owner/operator was unable to make changes/improvements necessary to meet existing safety and operating standards as the plant approached its 20 year renewal license. So, the plant was sold to Entergy, and Entergy colluded with the seller, the NRC and Michigan’s Public Service Commission to lower standards and/or ignore deficiencies such that 1) the sale could occur and 2) the new owner was granted a renewed license. Here is a list of some “just little events, nothing to be concerned about, really, we have everything under control”. ….
“Running a
search in the “Reports Associated with Events” category with the word “Palisades”
yields many safety-related “events” over the past decade or so. Citing but a few of these “events” relating to Palisades, there are reports of “a defect in Palisades reactor protection system” (August 30, 1995); the delivery of a
package exceeding radiation level limits, transported to Palisades on an open transport
vehicle (October 14, 1999); the premature loading of spent fuel assemblies into
Palisades storage casks before the assemblies had completed the required five years of
cooling (November 17, 2000); the loss of power to the Palisades cooling tower pumps
and primary coolant pumps (December 3, 2002); a declaration of emergency at
Palisades due to reduced water flow to the plant (February 19, 2003); the declaration of
an alert at Palisades due to a fire with the potential to affect safety systems (March 19,
2003); the declaration of an alert at Palisades due to the loss of shutdown cooling2
(March 26, 2003); and the report that portions of the Palisades plant process computer
4 “including the Emergency Response Data System (ERDS) became inoperable due to
failure of a plant inverter. . . The inverter failed for unknown reasons.” (October 14,
2005). Again, these are only some of the Palisades-related reports of “events”
contained on the NRC website.
The unvarnished truth is that both Consumers Energy and the MPSC (Ranger’s Note – MPSC is the Michigan Public Safety Commission) Staff (“Staff”) believe that it is acceptable that the emergency management and decommissioning concerns of Local Units be ignored in this proceeding.”
Source: STATE OF MICHIGAN – Case No. U-14992
Entergy also owns Indian Point near New York City, a big 3 reactor plant. That plant was among the top 5 targets for the 9/11 terrorists attacks, Nukeboy. But of course no one would ever consider crashing a huge airliner into a nuke plant that’s located 1) on water and 2) near a couple million Americans. Except, of course, a $hitload of motivated people who have demonstrated that it would be relatively easy to do. That would be an “event” not a “meltdown”. Thanks for setting me straight, Nuke.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2865
Location: Brookfield, WI | Solar is the answer. Oh, and wind. Properly used, a combination of the two could maybe then replace those dangerous and scary nucular plants. Not only could the terrorists bomb them, but they could maybe steel some of the fishionable material that makes the power and build a nucular bomb.
And who needs that. Not me, you, or the Great Lakes. I think we can all agree on that. I like clean, natural power.
IL should get Lovie Smith to close that canal. Maybe he would be good at that.
Kevin |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8775
| Solar and wind show some promise in sunny and windy areas. But neither provides near the energy yield that it takes to power our infrastructure, especially not our transportation networks. Furthermore, the cost of implementation and maintenance would mean that energy would soon become unaffordable for much of the population.
Oil and coal are not without their fair share of problems, of course... but as it stands now they are the only viable options we have. I think you're going to see a big push towards natural gas in the future, because it's next in line as far as cheap and abundant. ANd if it's not cheap and abundant? It's of little use.
Edited by esoxaddict 12/29/2009 11:28 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Windmills? Think of the birds man! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8775
| Pointerpride102 - 12/29/2009 11:31 PM
Windmills? Think of the birds man!
Hey... If they're stupid enough to fly into a windmill, let natural selection take its course, know what I'm sayin'?
We could put a big bucket under each windmill, and gather the stuff up and make cat food out of it or something. Aaaand, we could use the feathers to make... uh. pillows? cat toys? bucktails? I don't know. Birds have got to be good for something other than crappin' on my car after I wash it, right?
So uhhh.. Where we gonna put them windmills? I'm all for it, but I don't want one in my yard 'ya know...
Edited by esoxaddict 12/30/2009 1:22 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 284
|
Not trying to make light of this "problem", but didn't the so called experts tell us all how the Zebra Mussels were also going to destroy the Great Lakes back in the day?
How did that turn out ... ? Lake Erie is one of the best best walleye & smallmouth fisheries in the world.
Let's not all turn into Chicken Little over this. Mother Nature always finds her way. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3862
| I try to not Chicken Little (over-react with baseless dire predictions) to the power issues and our impact on the environment. I'm an MBA and achieved "Certified Quality Manager (CQM)" by ASQ, not a science professional. A couple years ago I taught a graduate quality management class with about 30 students including internationals from Poland, Egypt, Iran, etc., and the class included a couple Black Belt Six Sigma guys. Very smart folks. We spent some time reviewing America's power needs as compared to the infrastructure to meets those needs and our discussions included social responsibility and public safety. We concluded that
1) America can't currently meet periodic peak energy energy demand, that's why we experience brown and blackouts in heavily populated areas.
2) The rate of increase of energy demand is twice the rate of increase of infrastructure to meet that demand.
Obviously something has to be done to meet demand. Nuke power is an option that is considered viable and safe and we should expect an increase in the number of nuke plants all over the globe, including the USA. That's reality. We also concluded, however, that older plants with long histories of "events" should be either shut down or made safer. The Palisades plant near my house was not shut down nor does it meet existing safety standards. One of the biggest problems with the plant is that original plans on how to manage waste (bury it out west in non-populated regions) fell apart and so waste is now being stored on site, right next to the Lake Michigan. Maybe we should barge the waste to Green Bay and moor the barges in that sheltered harbor, that would be safe, right? No, of course not. Systems thinking, recognition of the ever-present "hidden factory" and application of chaos theory led us to conclude that nuke operations like the one within 40 miles of my house are disasters waiting to happen.
I'll leave this topic with this observation: Today's Wall Street Journal headline is "Obama Slams Security Breach".
Ok, this Chicken Little is done. Thanks for considering my views. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8775
| Looks like WI is throwing their hat in the ring...
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/12/wis-jumps-into-case-seek...
While closing the canal is the only way to ensure the Asian carp won't get into Lake Michigan (at least through that route anyway) I just don't see that being economically feasible. IL is in so much trouble financially right now there's no money to pay the people who could make this happen. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8775
| Here's a taste of what the local journalists are shoving down everyone's throat down here...
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/dennis-byrne-barbershop/2009/12/chi... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 676
Location: Wisconsin | I don't think Zebras do this to the water....(pic) http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/science/earth/03states.html?hp
Edited by Muskiemetal 1/3/2010 1:04 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 136
Location: Chicago | The great lakes alliance should sue the states responsible for allowing the carp to be used at their catfish farms. I don't ever hear about their role in what's happening. I'm not the most informed on the subject, but you would think that those businesses and states should feel serious reprucautions for what's happening now |
|
| |
|
Posts: 272
| esoxaddict - 11/22/2009 3:20 AM
It's also not difficult to figure out that there is little any of us can do about this one, if anything at all.
Except for congress and the Canadian government.
When workers opened the seaway and the ships then filled up with ballast water from the Caspian, that's when the problems began. I realize this is a slightly different access point that what some invasives have used, but the "body" responsible is the same.
Between Uncle Sam and the Canadian Crown Parliament or whatever they're proper name is, those two HAD and HAVE the power. One of them should have stepped in. How about banning the import of live fish.
This is going on a year ago now, but there was some dude on NPR or WPR, can't remember, who said the geniuses in congress have had a bill before them, FOR SEVEN YEARS, that would have forced the shipping industry to pump out their ballast water and flush it with ocean water on the voyage over.
Thanks, guys! Make sure to give yerselves another raise next year for doing such a good job.
-Eric
Edited by muskie-addict 1/4/2010 7:56 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 676
Location: Wisconsin | Game over...
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/82058727.html
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | ...wonderful |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | The sky is falling! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 7036
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Pointerpride102 - 1/19/2010 1:54 PM
The sky is falling!
Run away, run away!!! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Where behind the rabbit? It IS the rabbit! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 676
Location: Wisconsin | http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/97003199.html#comments
#*^@............. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8775
| http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/06/officials-asian-carp-fou...
I can't say I am really surprised by this, as they've been headed upsteam for a number of years. What frightens me is that Asian carp thrive in cold water. What happens in a few years when they find their way North into the rest of the great lakes, and our favorite fisheries in Canada?? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2361
| I'm thinking if the president was Republican, and the governor a democrat, this would be an alarmist tree hugger view, pollution vs jobs and industry. Now it is directly Obama's fault, LOL. Sounds like the damage is already done.
I don't mind closing the locks. Loading and unloading would mean a bunch of teamster jobs in the area. We need jobs. |
|
| |
