i have been using a bumpboard for the first time this season and it seems that almost everytime i turn the fish on its side it freaks out. anyone else notice this? how do you stop that from happen? any help would be great. thanks.
Posted 6/21/2009 11:22 PM (#384878 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert
Keep a little pressure on them, use both hands and firm grips. Don't attempt to just lay them on the board and expect them to lay there. Another option is to roll it on its back for a few seconds, doesn't always work but sometimes gets them to sit still for a few seconds. Muskies are pretty easy, just hold on to them, trout are a pain in the arse.
Posted 6/22/2009 1:05 PM (#384948 - in reply to #384886) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 1220
I have no beef with the guys who make and sell the bumpboards, but if I am not in a tournament, I see no reason for their use. Unless there is money on the line (or a big trophy) close enough is close enough. I try to hold my round mearsuring stick along side the fish in the net and have no problem with the fact that the measurment is not exact. Most of the time, I am pretty sure I can "eye-ball" the thing within an inch or so and don't even bother with the stick. If you MUST lay the thing out and have trouble keeping the fish still, put on a handling glove before lifting your fish. Knowing the glove will keep you from getting cut will give you the confidence to really grab hold in a way the will put the fish at rest. Marty Forman
Posted 6/22/2009 3:17 PM (#384967 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 1270
I have to agree with junkman here. I don't really care if the fish is 47 or 48 so I see no reason to put undue stress on the fish just so I can say it was 47-11/32".
Posted 6/22/2009 7:21 PM (#385014 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 999
Alot more 50"s come with the stick, I'll use the board over a stick anyday on big fish only.
Mr Musky
Guest
Posted 6/22/2009 7:27 PM (#385016 - in reply to #384875) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
some just want to know the true length of their catch. a bumpboard doesn't lie. how many so called 50 inchers were really 50s if they were measured with a stick. again a bumpboard will show you the true length.
Posted 6/22/2009 8:12 PM (#385027 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 294
Location: Bloomer, Wi
The Bump board gives you the measurement in alomost no time at all you dont have to hang onto the fish tightly and try to see if the "0" is at the tip of its mouth or at the tip of its tail. You just put it on the board and 2 seconds later you have an accurate measurement No reason you shouldnt use a board. My 2 cents
Posted 6/22/2009 8:14 PM (#385028 - in reply to #385027) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 267
Location: Ft. Wayne, Indiana
Joe Cal - 6/22/2009 9:12 PM
The Bump board gives you the measurement in alomost no time at all you dont have to hang onto the fish tightly and try to see if the "0" is at the tip of its mouth or at the tip of its tail. You just put it on the board and 2 seconds later you have an accurate measurement No reason you shouldnt use a board. My 2 cents
agreed. It is also the most accurate measurement you are going to get.
Guest
Posted 6/22/2009 8:15 PM (#385030 - in reply to #384875) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
I agree, taking a fish from the net to the board takes less time than messing with a stick. It also gives you an accurate measurement. I have laid a few hundred fish on bump boards and can only recall maybe 3 or 4 fish that did anything else besides just lie there.
Posted 6/23/2009 6:30 AM (#385076 - in reply to #385041) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 285
Location: NE Wisconsin
I have to agree, the only draw back of using a bump board, is you will measure a lot less 50 inch fish. If you want to catch numbers of 50s use the stick. If you want an accurate measurement, use the bump board.
Guest
Posted 6/23/2009 9:50 AM (#385097 - in reply to #384875) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
Bump boards mean more handling, fish out of the water, dropped fish, flopping fish, more stress overall. None of it is necessary. So you need an exact, to the 1/4" measurement? For what? Why do you fish? To catch the things, or measure them? Does it matter to anyone but you how long the thing is? If you aren't sure if a fish is 49" or 50", so what? Just say it was a nice one. Seriously - get out a ruler. Look at how long 1 inch is. Stare at it for a while (isn't far, is it?) and then ask yourself if there's really a qualitative difference between a 49-incher and a 50-incher. If you have to measure it, use a stick in the water. Fish > ego.
Posted 6/23/2009 10:06 AM (#385099 - in reply to #385097) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Location: Contrarian Island
I like accurate measurements...so sue me...if it's a 50 I want to know...I don't get why guys have to knock guys for measuring fish accurately....why do YOU care what I do...I don't care what you do...so get over it...go fish.
takes 3 seconds ...doesn't harm fish....funny you fish with 8/0 hooks that can and do kill fish but you are worried about measuring a fish on a bumpboard...funny.
Posted 6/23/2009 10:18 AM (#385102 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI
I've always used the floating ruler, and I do think it's pretty good for the fish. BUT, I am going to make a bump board this year. I've caught a few fish in big(er) wind and waves, and measuring a longer fish in those conditions can be tough. Every wave bends the fish, and to keep the fish straight you have to have a solid hold on the tail as well as the gill plate hold. Sometimes i seems to take more time than it should to get within that 1/2 inch measurement accuracy. When it's a longer fish and the waves are big, each wave can change the length a couple inches. Then you have to make sure the tail is right to the end of the ruler, at the same time you are looking at the nose of the fish 40, 45, or (hopefully someday) 50 inches away.
I think a bump board would be a lot quicker. The fish is out of the water for a picture anyway. Lay the fish down, bump it, and back in the water. Sometimes in warm water and big waves, I feel using the stick is not as fish friendly as quickly bumping it on the board and getting it back in and gone.
Posted 6/23/2009 10:23 AM (#385103 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 335
Location: Minnesota
The bumpboard takes less time to measure a fish and therefore would seem to be less stressful for the fish. I don't buy the argument about more fish handling to use a bumpboard versus a stick. If you put the bumpboard in the water to measure the fish you could get the most accurate measurement with the shortest fish handling time possible.
I use a stick for everything I measure becuase I don't have a bumpboard yet. After I buy a bumpboard I will probably use it almost exclusively and only use the stick if I forget the bumpboard at home.
Posted 6/23/2009 11:58 AM (#385122 - in reply to #385103) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 1220
Don't want to beat the dead horse, but for a lot of us (when fishing for fun) it's just not that important if the fish is 48 or 49 (or 38 and 39) It's just not. Of course, you are more accurate with the board, but you have to lay the fish down on a flat surface to make it work and the bigger the fish--the more stress that will cause. If it's worth it to you to get it that exact...well it's your fish and your right.
Marty Forman
lambeau
Posted 6/23/2009 12:03 PM (#385123 - in reply to #385097) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
after measuring it on my bumpboard i take a picture of the fish.
oh my gosh!
Fish > ego.
actually it's an Id-based need: immediate gratification for what feels good.
this is in conflict with the SuperEgo: our values that harming a fish is wrong.
it is managed by the Ego into socially acceptable forms: measure/photograph the fish quickly to meet both objectives.
soooo...perhaps you meant to say: Fish > Id. but let's not quibble.
muskies are valuable sport fish, and we should make every reasonable effort to release them successfully. conscientious people will balance their enjoyment of the moment with the fish's well-being.
imho, the key word here is balance.
it's absolutely OK to want to have a measurement and a picture; it's also the right thing to do to take good care of the fish by doing those things quickly.
we're all interested in releasing fish right. getting a quick measurement in or out of the water plus a photograph is always going to a part of that in my boat.
Posted 6/23/2009 12:09 PM (#385124 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 392
Location: lake x...where the hell is it?
This is frustrating that no one has really answered my question. Its turned into a debate on to use a board or stick. Regardless of your personal opinion I will still use a board. and for those that are worried about "putting undo stress" on a fish maybe you should stop fishing for them, what; you don't think that causes stress on them? Get over yourselves and give me a break.
Guest
Posted 6/23/2009 12:30 PM (#385132 - in reply to #384875) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
fish stress? on a true measuring device? what about all these so called elitest on hot water? double standards rule the day! members of clubs fishing hot water. guides fishing hot water.either you truly care about the fishery or not! measuring fish should really be the least of our ego driven sport!
Oneida Esox
Posted 6/23/2009 12:48 PM (#385133 - in reply to #385132) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
To all of those that use a floating ruler and say they don't care if it's 38 or 39, why even bother with a ruler??? Just estimate it, cause that's all a floating ruler is, an estimation within an inch or two.
For me, I bust my a$$ trying to catch these fish, I want to know how big they are when I catch them so I use a bump board.
I'm not a biologist, but my guess is that the fish eating a lure with metal hooks all over it, then struggling for it's life while I crank it in is much more stressful than any form of measuring.
Oh, and jay, sometimes they just like to flop around, I've measured lots of fish over the years and for whatever reason, some are more lively than others. Not really much you can do, just hang on tight!
Posted 6/23/2009 1:06 PM (#385139 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Measuring the fish should be the least?
Not for me, sorry. I bump fish I want to measure, and guess at fish I don't. I don't like to offer an estimated length on one I don't measure, too sketchy.
These are fish. To me they are to be respected as a quarry and understood as to the conservation tactics involved.
Bumping the fish isn't going to unduly stress them if done properly. John puts it pretty well as to why some are pretty active and some not. Most I measure just lay there.
If the fish is trying to move around too much, maybe one could use that stick to whack 'em a little and settle them down..
Posted 6/23/2009 1:27 PM (#385145 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 8782
I just have one question for the guys who are worried about putting "undue stress" on the fish:
Is ramming sharp metal hooks through their faces and dragging them through the water while they are trying to escape ok? What about netting them, and using pliers to rip those same hooks back out of their faces? What about taking them out of the water and holding them in the air for a picture? If you were REALLY worried about their well being enough that you thought using a bump board was putting undue stress on them, how could you POSSIBLY justify catching them in the first place??? Maybe we ought to try kissing them on the forehead before we release them, do you think it would make them feel better?
Posted 6/23/2009 1:38 PM (#385148 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 462
Location: Madison Wi. Chain
Getting back to the original question, I always pick up the fish with my left hand. I know that if I pick up the fish with my left hand I can easily put the head in the correct position on the board for a quicky measurement. If you can put the board in the water that is even better, but at least get the board wet. Always, have the fish firmy gribbed and hang on tight if it flops. BG
Guest
Posted 6/23/2009 2:21 PM (#385163 - in reply to #384875) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
Jay it is hard to stop this from happening I try to do most of the fish handling in my boat. Most of the time I try to get a measurement for the customer that caught it. I also try to use 2 hands on the fish so they cant move as much. When I give the fish the person that caught it I ask them to use 2 hands also. It is even more nessesary when they are bigger fish. Even though the bigger ones are not as spunky at the board when they get tense it is hard to hold on to them. If a fish is not being nice I will some times not take a measurement or do it with a soft tape in the water and try to do the picture a differnt way.
What ever you do take your time and do what is best for the fish.
f4m1
Posted 6/23/2009 2:25 PM (#385165 - in reply to #384875) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
The fact that there is so much stress placed on the fish by: ramming sharp hooks through its face, fighting it, netting it, and ripping the hooks out with pliers is the reason why I don't want to use a bump board and would rather measure them in the water. They already have enough stress placed on them through the above process so I don't think I need to take them out of the water and hold them down onto a piece of wood and risk having them trash around and hit their head and injure them selves.
Posted 6/23/2009 2:37 PM (#385166 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi.
name one other group of sportsmen who get as strung out about what others do and then label it right or wrong like musky fishermen. holy cow ...
honest question ... anybody who participates in other sports find the same level of attitude that you do with musky fishermen. i swear it's an art unto it's own.
Posted 6/23/2009 2:39 PM (#385168 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
I have never have had one injure itself yet on a bumpboard 'trashing around'. I have killed a couple with the hooks for sure. I've also killed a few intentionally, but that was a very long time ago on a different planet, it seems some days.
The board I use (Muskiebumper, a nice board by the way) isn't wood, it's s slick, smooth surface I wet first before placing the fish on it for measure. There IS a point at which the entire Muskie fishing CPR process becomes reaches the sublime IMO.
Sled, none that I know of. Golfers would be, but carrying around dangerous metal sharp edged clubs probably tones the entire thing down. Ask Hopeful.
Posted 6/23/2009 2:41 PM (#385169 - in reply to #385163) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 1220
YIPES! This is a tough crowd! Heaven forbid we get onto a subject that is really controversial and important. I don't think it is the end of the world if you wish to take a quick bump or not. I am putting my money down and praying to have a chance to do several this weekend (God Willing) up in Eagle River. It's just my personal preference to skip that step when just out for the pure fun of fishing. If I were a guide or some kind of a pro and keeping accurate track of these things made a diffeerence to my living--I'd look at it differently. The block for me comes with the suspicion that laying a big fish down flat may, in fact, be more of a disturbance to the spine of a big fish than all the other stuff mentioned above. Don't know that for sure, but am concerned. Where's that fish biology guy, Dr. Tom Betka when you need him???? Marty Forman
Posted 6/23/2009 3:26 PM (#385187 - in reply to #385168) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi.
sworrall - 6/23/2009 2:39 PM
Sled, none that I know of. Golfers would be, but carrying around dangerous metal sharp edged clubs probably tones the entire thing down. Ask Hopeful.
fancy clubs don't cover up a bad swing and a good swing and game cannot be faked ... is pretty obvious in golf, you either have what it takes to shoot off at the mouth or you do not. most who do come home to mama with less money than they left the house with that morning. shooting par (equivalent to catching a 50") is earned through hours and hours of practice and often-times never achieved by even some very good players. i do agree though steve on the "country-club" mentality that can exist in the sport and it's a good corellation.
oh, and just when you think there's a "right" way to do it .... you look at a guy like lee trevino or jim furyk's swing and scratch your head wondering ... wtf (whitetails first) ...
Posted 6/23/2009 7:41 PM (#385240 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert
How do you guys think biologists get their info on muskies? Hard to get length or weight data on them without measuring them. When they put in PIT tags or radio transmitters for studies they actually......hold your breath here....cut into them and insert the tag/transmitter in the body cavity. My guess is landing one and taking a quick measurement is the least of our fishing worries.
Guest
Posted 6/23/2009 8:27 PM (#385246 - in reply to #384875) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
DNR don't tire fish out by playing them with a rod and reel before they work on them.
Muskies are usually "put to sleep" before any extensive work is done with pith tags, transmitters or other time consuming tasks.
Your comparison to stress levels with DNR vs. angling is not accurate.
Posted 6/23/2009 8:31 PM (#385247 - in reply to #385187) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 2865
Location: Brookfield, WI
jonnysled - 6/23/2009 3:26 PM
sworrall - 6/23/2009 2:39 PM
Sled, none that I know of. Golfers would be, but carrying around dangerous metal sharp edged clubs probably tones the entire thing down. Ask Hopeful.
fancy clubs don't cover up a bad swing and a good swing and game cannot be faked ... is pretty obvious in golf, you either have what it takes to shoot off at the mouth or you do not. most who do come home to mama with less money than they left the house with that morning. shooting par (equivalent to catching a 50") is earned through hours and hours of practice and often-times never achieved by even some very good players. i do agree though steve on the "country-club" mentality that can exist in the sport and it's a good corellation.
oh, and just when you think there's a "right" way to do it .... you look at a guy like lee trevino or jim furyk's swing and scratch your head wondering ... wtf (whitetails first) ...
My computer alerts me when golf is mentioned on this website.
Golfers argue on Internet forums just like fishermen. They just don't have that shiny toothy fish and how it should be treated to lord over each other. Sled's right about one thing, once you get on the course with someone you've interacted with in a forum, you know whether they are full of bs or not pretty quickly. You can generally tell before you even leave the range. Unlike fishermen that can always say the fish weren't biting today, a slew of double and triple bogeys from a guy who's been saying how long and straight he hits it, or how many birdies he makes pretty much says it all. You can't say, "I'm really a much better golfer, but the fish just weren't biting today." I'm an above average player with a couple of those 50" par fish Sled was talking about under my belt, but I keep my mouth shut. I see how many better players than I are out there, and I don't want to walk into that buzz saw.
Internet golfers argue about everything; etiquette, proper dress, slow play, equipment, green fees, public vs private. You name it, they argue about it. And they spend money on equipment like crazy people, constantly trying to buy a better game, just like fishermen. I'm sometimes guilty of it myself.
Like fishermen, most would be better served by practicing or perfecting their technique than worrying about whether their driver has a high launch shaft and a low spin head that perfectly matches their swing speed and plane.
Bump board, floating stick, measure, don't measure? Who gives a rat's crapper. Good release technique I would think makes all that moot.
Kevin
"How do you measure yourself against other fishermen?"
Posted 6/23/2009 8:32 PM (#385248 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 476
Location: WI
I can't wait until we get more 80 degree water temps.....then this board will get even better
If you bump enough fish, it is a smooth transistion.....and with a partner, it is even better:
"You ready?" "okay here we go."
Lift fish out of the net straight to the wet bump board-you hold the head, partner measures the tail-get measurement.
Hold for a picture or two...back in the water.
Posted 6/23/2009 8:34 PM (#385249 - in reply to #385246) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert
Guest - 6/23/2009 8:27 PM
DNR don't tire fish out by playing them with a rod and reel before they work on them.
Muskies are usually "put to sleep" before any extensive work is done with pith tags, transmitters or other time consuming tasks.
Your comparison to stress levels with DNR vs. angling is not accurate.
You're right, they voluntarily offer themselves up because they enjoy that experience so much. Fact of the matter is, measuring a musky isn't going to kill it.
Posted 6/24/2009 12:15 AM (#385287 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
What Gotone said.
Hopeful/Sled,
Some day I need to learn how to golf. I've been told I should be good at it, something about hand to eye coordination. I cannot, however, see worth a crap anymore, and I AM left handed. I CAN read the lay of the land really well, comes from working as a Landscape construction guy when I was young. Low spots and high spots and swails literally leap out at me. My lawn, however is at Sue's mercy, and looks sorta like a moonscape as far as the level of the situation goes. Maybe I'll stick to marveling that anyone even tries to be really good at such a complicated, demanding, and nerve wracking sport.
Putting for Muskies. Sorta like Dialing for Dollars, just different.
I believe I have a mild case of sunstroke.
mota
Posted 6/24/2009 12:44 AM (#385292 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
IMHO¨fisherman¨who dont like 1 inch less or 1 inch more, need to revise her fishing philosophy vs money
Posted 6/24/2009 7:36 AM (#385302 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi.
Golf is so easy that it's hard. it's a game where less is more, flexibility and the ability to remain calm is critical. it's a fun game to play but an even more fun game to teach. it's bio-mechanics where you turn your body into a spring and then into a series of levers ... great game for the math and physics mind.
steve ... you and pizza-boy come up for a lesson (between kevin, my kids and i we'll have you ready to go quick) and play at timber ridge with me this fall and then we'll head out to katherine or the chain and fish afterward. i got a largemouth honey-hole that's producing some slobs this year.
Posted 6/24/2009 8:12 AM (#385313 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi.
if i take you to 17 at sawgrass and say "hit the shot" ... vs. take you to a spot on spot and say throw a cast or have you sit in the boat for a trolling pass ... something to ponder.
Posted 6/24/2009 8:33 AM (#385314 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Sled, you are on. Always wanted to understand the game better.
Anyone wanting to keep a fish calmer during cpr, it's the hold. Firm grip on the lower jaw, clasping one's thumb and forefinger side to side FIRMLY in the thin soft spot, support the fish in the center, slide it onto the board (think about that before wetting and placing your board so you have the board facing the right way, just to insure speed), with firm grip still in place, look at the tail, back up supporting the fish in the center again, quick shot, back in the water. Maybe 30 seconds. Any one who's so incredibly cool they don't need a measure, good for you! That's me with some fish, not me with others. Personal choice. It doesn't hurt the fish if done right, so I'll bump fish when I want to, and won't when I don't.
Guest
Posted 6/24/2009 8:35 AM (#385316 - in reply to #384875) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
Posted 6/24/2009 9:03 AM (#385324 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 654
Location: MPLS, MN
As for the actual question this seems to work well:
Give the fish a 180, instead of putting the fish straight down with the fishes stomach facing you turn him so the back is facing you. This turn seems to calm them down and not make them flop as much. Hope this makes sense.
Guest
Posted 6/24/2009 2:06 PM (#385385 - in reply to #384875) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
I fish way to much to golf
I have never understod how a golfer could fish or a fisherman could golf?
It takes to much time to do either or be good at them
Posted 6/24/2009 2:15 PM (#385389 - in reply to #385388) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Location: Contrarian Island
Sled I see your point but even w/ the scenario you describe above doesn't the guy or gal making the cast have to still get the fish to hit, and stay on, and in the net....I think you probably had a few spots on Eagle you made the cast, and you had monsterous fish follow ...(while guided no less) that you simply f'd up by all acounts, even your own...so. you still have to make the cast ..and make the shot in golf....
making the cast is easy in fishing...now try to convert those 50 plus'ers when they do show up..that is where the boys and men are seperated...
I'll stick to fishing...my golf swing needs some work...
Posted 6/24/2009 4:28 PM (#385417 - in reply to #385385) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 8782
Guest - 6/24/2009 2:06 PM
I fish way to much to golf
I have never understod how a golfer could fish or a fisherman could golf?
It takes to much time to do either or be good at them
I've never understood the concept of being "good at" fishing... Sure, there's the mechanics of casting, lure selection, figure 8's etc, reading the water, boat control... But we're not talking about something that takes years and years of "hard work' to accomplish. And there's no real way to measure your success, because there are too many variables. It's not like sports, where there's a score, stats, averages, etc. The "best" anglers still won't catch great numers of fish on low desnity fisheries, nor will they ever catch 40# fish on a regular basis if they fish where that class of fish is incredibly rare. Sometimes no matter how "good" you are, you're not going to catch anything, and some days you encounter fish that are determined to eat no matter what you do.
It's a fish, it's got a brain the size of a pea, and its instincts tell it to eat anything that swims through the water. Being able to outsmart one once in a while doesn't seem like all that great of an accomplishment to me. ANYBODY can catch a fish.
Someone who can put a little white ball on a tee, whack it with a club, and make it go where they want it to? Into that little tiny hole, 350 yards away, in a specified number of strokes?
THAT is impressive. That takes a level of skill and patience that you don't develop in a few years.
Posted 6/24/2009 6:47 PM (#385441 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi.
having kids means you have to be versatile. so, musky, bass, crappie, gil fishing combines with golf in our house and it helps when the tee box is a 30 pace walk from the garage. i'm glad my kids love to compete and at the end of the day that to me regardless of the sport is the fun of doing it and it teaches life skills. i like to know where i'm going and why i'm going there, what i'm doing and why i'm doing it and then score at whatever regardless of whether it's work or a hobby.
"measurement" is usually a part of competitve sports. my kids drive the wagon and for mine it's wrestling at a very competitive level and golf, but they love to fish too. i ask them one simple question "do you want to do it to have fun? or do you want to be good? because they are two very different answers and experiences. i find it interesting to hear and see so much posturing around musky fishing and oftentimes by people who can't compete trying to dictate policy to those who are competitive claiming all others but themselves to be "doing it all wrong".
protecting the fishery is a cheap copout for wanting to control someone else on this subject.
i hate bumpboards, but also know they're needed to truly know what you have ... big fish get bump-board measured unless i drop the slimy ba$tard into the water before getting a chance to measure it.
so to the original point. hold on in the right place and do not let go ... and to nelson's point, for sure, yes ... the boys are separated from the men at those numbers! ... as kids are left behind when wrestlers go to the kohl center in April and as golfers are separated when they start shooting consistently low numbers. competing at a high level in any sport is pretty darn cool if you don't or can't it's no reason to place blame on those who do.
you can always "toe-the-line", "tee-it-up" or "put your boat in the water" and go prove it vs. calling foul on those who actually do.
Posted 6/24/2009 7:17 PM (#385445 - in reply to #385441) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 311
Location: Ontario
EA I don't agree with you at all. Marc Thorpe and Jody Mills are two guys that catch big fish all the time, regularly, and in the case of Thorpe, can call their shots more often than not just by watching stuff like air pressue. These two guys are very consistent at catching very large muskie. To them, 'stats' are really simple. How many fish over thirty five pounds this season? There aren't many Mills or Thorpes out there, but they do exist. And they've gotten very good at fishing and have meaningful stats: lots and lots of really big fish. IMO, this is the only stat worth keeping track of. To some guys it might be lots of small fish, winning a trophy or soemthing else even. Every guy's different. In my mind, you can teach anybody to shoot a free throw, sink a putt or throw a discus. You need to know a lot about a lot of stuff to be a good outdoorsman. I'm still pretty sure I could still be top 3 in scoring on the Toronto Maple Leafs Most of the best fishermen and hunters I know are guys at least my age and usually wayyy older. I can't say I know any guys or gals younger than me that can hold a candle to the old guys.
(Oddly enough, these guys are seldom on the internet and will both tell you staight-faced that they've never seen anything as big as what gets reported online year after year. There's a pretty telling perspective and another thread in itself, too)
Golf's a good parallel, it takes a lot of work to be a golfer, I personally think its the hardest sport to master and guys who are really good at it have definitely put in the hours and practice. Its hard.
Back to the real issue of taking measurements on fish to the 1/4 inch. This thread is like a pizza to me/......best when Pre-Frozen haha!
Posted 6/24/2009 7:26 PM (#385447 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI
Wait a second, measuring a fish on a bumpboard is bad? Sheesh, take the hooks off your lures, join peta, and start watching The Bachelorette. Better yet, give up fishing muskies altogether for fear of 'injuring' one. Absolutely ridiculous.
Posted 6/24/2009 8:05 PM (#385461 - in reply to #385447) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 155
Is it a 32" or 31 and 33/64ths wow ! I still can,t believe we compare it to golf...What are we sending to all the newbies,that we should wine and dine every fish we catch..Come on...
Posted 6/24/2009 8:13 PM (#385467 - in reply to #385461) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 413
Location: Madison WI
It is really sad how most people can't read the original post and answer the question that was asked, I mean seriously this post would have maybe 10 replies if that had been done. But then again were muskie fisherman and we love to run off on tangents all the time...
Posted 6/24/2009 8:53 PM (#385481 - in reply to #384875) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160
I only take the fish out of the water for the pic. Use a stick in the water, bumpboads are for tournaments. Someone said to use a firm grip and keep alittle pressure on the fish with both hands, that is wrong, after that fish just got done with a fight for it's life now you are going to apply more stress for what ???? a stick in the water works without undo harm to the fish. Think about that fish not your ego.
Posted 6/24/2009 9:13 PM (#385486 - in reply to #385481) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 1220
I am not liking the comparrison to watching The Bachelorette. That's not fair. My wife makes me watch that with her...and also those guys on that show don't fool me with that sensative act....I don't think they really love her for herself. Hey, wait a minute...maybe she could pick the guy she wants to marry by using a bump-board???
Posted 6/25/2009 6:01 AM (#385517 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI
For the record I don't own a bumpboard, but properly done isn't an issue, no more than holding it for a photo. In general I just 'eyeball' the muskies we catch, call it 40ish, 36ish, whatever it may be, usually within an inch, and don't really care. If it's a newbee in the boat, want's an accurate measurement (or we catch a big one), I have a steel ruler attached to the gunwale and a quick measurement is taken.
I feel for you Marty, was at a friend's house this week and was forced to watch that crap, ugly.
JS
Guest
Posted 6/25/2009 8:00 AM (#385532 - in reply to #384875) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
Biologists in MN (Rod Ramsell, Dan Iserman) have long talked about the "cumalative stress factor".
Basically that each individual stress has a cumalative impact on whether or not that fish may survive.
Many anglers try to limit the different stress factors as much as they can. Doing all un-hooking in the water, and not taking fish into the boat for measuring or some may not even choose to photo other than a release shot.
Seems pretty abusrd to abuse anglers who choose to go down this road.
Telling someone they should be in peta because they want to keep fish in the water is moronic.
If you want to bump-board every fish, or some than that's fine, your choice No reason to vilify those who feel differently about it.
lambeau
Posted 6/25/2009 8:21 AM (#385536 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
i think you've got it a bit mixed up. if you want to leave the fish in the water, no measuring (or in-water only) and no photo. that's an excellent choice. no one is vilifying that choice.
where the problem occurs is when those who choose to go that route say that no one else should be bump-boarding or photographing captured muskies. that's just plain silly.
catch a fish, take a picture (or not), measure it (or not), and let it go.
simple.
Posted 6/25/2009 8:40 AM (#385543 - in reply to #385166) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
jonnysled - 6/23/2009 3:37 PM name one other group of sportsmen who get as strung out about what others do and then label it right or wrong like musky fishermen. holy cow ... honest question ... anybody who participates in other sports find the same level of attitude that you do with musky fishermen. i swear it's an art unto it's own.
Steelhead anglers for sure and another would be fly fishermen, not all mostly trout guys. Seems that the greater the passion (aka. mental instability) the more we are willing to go after our fellow angler with torch and pitchfork.
Posted 6/25/2009 9:00 AM (#385546 - in reply to #385246) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 2024
Guest - 6/23/2009 8:27 PM
DNR don't tire fish out by playing them with a rod and reel before they work on them.
Muskies are usually "put to sleep" before any extensive work is done with pith tags, transmitters or other time consuming tasks.
Your comparison to stress levels with DNR vs. angling is not accurate.
Anesthesia is not commonly used when working with fish, unless surgically implanting acoustic, radio, or CARTs (combined acoustic/radio tags). PIT tags and Floy tags take about 5 seconds (or less) to insert, and external radio tags also take very little time to affix.
Any time you touch a muskie it is going to react with physiological changes (i.e., stress). What device you measure them with should not be the issue at hand, but rather how the ENTIRE handling event is carried out. Cumulative stress can occur from a multitude of handling practices (e.g., duration of angling event, duration of de-hooking process, air exposure, etc.). The fisherman needs to evaluate all of those things and try to mitigate the amount of stress they put on the fish. For example, if the fish wrapped really badly in the net and had its head out of the water a while, AND the unhooking process took much longer than expected, then maybe the photo session should be limited to one or two photos and an in the water measurement. Being able to evaluate each fish's condition and then adapt one's handling practices to the particular scenario should be considered at all times. That will ultimately lead to better, more refined, handling practices.
bn
Posted 6/25/2009 9:30 AM (#385555 - in reply to #384875) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
well said Esox50...
measuring fish on a bumpboard and taking a couple pics can be a very quick and smooth process..catch enough fish and you get pretty darn good at it...the fish are not harmed in the slightest if you do it right... more harm is done to fish by inexperienced anglers than by the ones that have their ducks in a row....
I think Lambeau had a short video of an unhooking/measuring/photo session on here at one time that showed how smooth and harmless it can be...
Guest
Posted 6/25/2009 9:57 AM (#385559 - in reply to #384875) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
The theme here seems to be that if you think measuring out of water is a stress that fish don't need, than you should join peta.
That's an "attack" on the choice to not take fish out of water, not on those that you may feel are trying to tell you what to do.
In MN fish are put under for pit tags, egg take, and just recently on Leech for simply taking scale and fin-ray samples.
Point being there that comparing how the DNR handles fish to how anglers do is apples to oranges. To think that DNR stresses fish out more than anglers is not accurate.
Lastly, many anglers try to limit the stress put on fish all the time, it's just the way they do things. To imply that thinking this way is peta-like or eccentric, etc. is putting yourself down at the level of those who you say are "preaching" at you about how you fish.
You know, the whole pot calling the kettle black thing.
Posted 6/25/2009 10:39 AM (#385570 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 1516
Use the stick to wack'em a little to settle them down? I tried that with my kids and it didn't work at all. Maybe I didn't whack'em long enough or hard enough.
Posted 6/25/2009 10:45 AM (#385573 - in reply to #385559) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 444
So putting them under doesnt stress them out in itself......?? I would think there confused as hell go under like that.. .drugs and such arent natural to Muskies..
lambeau
Posted 6/25/2009 10:59 AM (#385579 - in reply to #385555) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
I think Lambeau had a short video of an unhooking/measuring/photo session on here at one time that showed how smooth and harmless it can be...
thanks for the reminder, Brad.
here's the video of Andy Grimm "doing it right" with measuring and photo session.
go ahead and time it out of the water...
here's a video with Steve Jonesi demonstrating proper release techniques:
Posted 6/25/2009 4:38 PM (#385670 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Hey John,
No one is attacking the decision not to measure. I think lambeau made that point pretty clearly the last time you said about the same thing.
There is some animosity/resentment towards those who insist NO ONE should measure a muskie because they choose not to, citing most certain harm to the fish. You won't find many folks who will say less than 30 seconds out of the water and careful handling using a wet bump board will kill the fish. When it gets to the point where we are villianized because we take a picture or bump a fish in the CATCH- PHOTO- RELEASE process, then I'd say we are almost off the edge and approaching the -don't-fish-because-it-hurts-the-fish theme, but that's my interpretation. Like I said, I'll bump the fish I want to, and not bump those I don't want to. How about everyone does the same, and we're all happy!
Posted 6/25/2009 4:49 PM (#385674 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 1270
I guess if you want to measure your fish on a board or a floating ruler have at it, just be careful with the fish.
Since someone brought up golf I'll add this: When I golf I don't keep score and when I fish I don't feel the need to measure every fish I catch. I golf and fish for fun and relaxation, not for other people or to brag about what I caught or what I shot in golf. "Keeping score" while fishing to me would take the fun out of it. I'm not saying that I don't ever measure a fish but I don't feel the need to do it to everyone I catch. If I think it's a PB I will measure it but I see no need to measure a 40" fish as I don't really care if it's 38" or 42" all I know is that I worked hard to catch it and am proud of it regardless of how long it is.
Posted 6/25/2009 6:31 PM (#385697 - in reply to #384875) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160
I wonder how hot a B/BOARD gets sitting in the sun all day long ?????? I hope they take a few extra seconds and wet/cool the board before they put the fish down ????? I know most muskies guys will but what about the weekend warriors ????
Posted 6/25/2009 6:52 PM (#385700 - in reply to #385546) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 392
Location: lake x...where the hell is it?
esox50 - 6/25/2009 9:00 AM
Guest - 6/23/2009 8:27 PM
DNR don't tire fish out by playing them with a rod and reel before they work on them.
Muskies are usually "put to sleep" before any extensive work is done with pith tags, transmitters or other time consuming tasks.
Your comparison to stress levels with DNR vs. angling is not accurate.
Anesthesia is not commonly used when working with fish, unless surgically implanting acoustic, radio, or CARTs (combined acoustic/radio tags). PIT tags and Floy tags take about 5 seconds (or less) to insert, and external radio tags also take very little time to affix.
Any time you touch a muskie it is going to react with physiological changes (i.e., stress). What device you measure them with should not be the issue at hand, but rather how the ENTIRE handling event is carried out. Cumulative stress can occur from a multitude of handling practices (e.g., duration of angling event, duration of de-hooking process, air exposure, etc.). The fisherman needs to evaluate all of those things and try to mitigate the amount of stress they put on the fish. For example, if the fish wrapped really badly in the net and had its head out of the water a while, AND the unhooking process took much longer than expected, then maybe the photo session should be limited to one or two photos and an in the water measurement. Being able to evaluate each fish's condition and then adapt one's handling practices to the particular scenario should be considered at all times. That will ultimately lead to better, more refined, handling practices.
thanks sean,"Being able to evaluate each fish's condition and then adapt one's handling practices to the particular scenario should be considered at all times. That will ultimately lead to better, more refined, handling practicest"
that is what i am trying to do but aint got much help.maybe if i wanted to learn golf i know who to ask now.
Posted 6/25/2009 7:11 PM (#385704 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Yo received all SORTS of help, as it is, there isn't much more to say about a fish that doesn't want to sit still. Hold it tight, support it carefully, and measure it. End of story.
bumpbord fish killer
Posted 6/25/2009 9:41 PM (#385742 - in reply to #385704) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
The only fish I put on a bumpboard this year so far ended up being a 49.5" floating fish. Fish was measured fast and never dropped, but did the usual spazz flopping on the board (more stress). The other 15 water releases I have had this year the fish swam away fine. I will never know if it would have lived with a water release, but it does make me think twice about it next time. I'm not telling anyone to not measure a fish with a board, as I do it mysef when I think I got a 50"+. But, it is pretty obvious that what is best for the fish is a water release.
Posted 6/25/2009 10:02 PM (#385745 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 392
Location: lake x...where the hell is it?
all "SORTS" of help is right, but i didnt learn anything i didnt know already. i was hopeing to learn something. its not that i cant handel them, its that moment when you turn then on there side to bump them and they freak out. thats what i was trying to get some insight on. i just wanted to be better at handeling and make sure i dont hurt the fish. this thread went way off subject and didnt answer my qustion at all. thanks to those that did try.
Guest
Posted 6/25/2009 10:10 PM (#385749 - in reply to #384875) Subject: RE: bumpboard measuring
when measuring a fish on a board, DO NOT TAKE YOUR HANDS OUT OF THE GILL PLATE.
Pick them out of the net and DO NOT TAKE YOUR HAND OUT, it takes about 3-4 seconds.
Again, I have measured hundreds of fish on boards and can only remember 3 or 4 doing anything but laying there. Once you slide your hand out though...that's a different story.
Hard to believe we need to explain how to measure fish...wow.
Posted 6/25/2009 10:21 PM (#385750 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Jay,
I tried to indicate a couple times in this thread there may BE no definitive answer. That would certainly explain why you 'didn't learn anything you didn't already know'.
It's a topic many seem to be interested in speaking to, but not necessarily to the direct question. That happens.
Posted 6/25/2009 10:26 PM (#385751 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 999
Wow, you'd think Winternet was in full session right about now! I see the vast majority of us are in full favor of Bumpboards for safe,fast,ACCURATE measurements which we ALL deserve. If your against any type of stress put on a musky dont even fish for the %$#@%$ things. Dont even waste your time fishing for them. Go to the Minocqua Zoo and take pictures of them in that pond. Dont sit here on MuskieFirst half beered up telling us how it puts added stress on the fish. You allready snapped the fishes neck on your hookset and dragged it all the way in while it peeled line off your freespool, then you finally had your netman net it while it sat there headbanging your tin can of a boat enduing it's now headache. A 3 second measurement sure in the heck isnt going to ruin the fishes day any worse!
Posted 6/25/2009 10:27 PM (#385752 - in reply to #384875) Subject: Re: bumpboard measuring
Posts: 227
Location: Maple Grove
Hey guest. When I first started I had no idea as to the proper way to handle the fish. Fortunately I had a great mentor to show me the ropes. My guess is not everyone has that. I am glad this is being discussed and info like how to handle and bump or not bump fish is what most newbies need to know when visiting sites like this. Aren't you glad a new comer has most likely read your advice?
bumpboard measuring
