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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | I have a Lund that is set up with a 12/24 volt system instead of a straight 24 volt system. I cant get a trolling motor to work at all, but they worked last fall. When using a multi meter to check I have the proper voltage at each step, up to the motor.
I am assuming with this 12/24 volt deal the internal jumper is inside the male plug(that gets wired to the trolling motor) as its only after plugging that in that I get 24+ volts on the meter. Is it possible that something with that jumper is allowing the right volts through when the motor is not connected and I'm just testing bare wires, but somehow failing after the motor is attached and there is an amp draw?
For those unfamiliar with this setup, the female receptacle on the boat has 4 wires going into it, a positive and negative from each battery, and then 4 prongs. The male plug that gets wired to the trolling motor has 3 wires, a red, an orange and a black, and 4 holes that mate up with the 4 prongs in the female receptacle. There is an internal jumper of some sort that allows you to either run a 12 volt motor, a 12/24 volt motor or a 24 volot motor off the same system depending on how you wire the plug to the trolling motor.
When I plug the male end into the female on the boat, I get a reading of 25.6 volts when hitting the orange wire with the positive lead on my multi meter and the black with the negative lead. I got the same volt reading after I cut the plug off on the trolling motor side of the connections, so before cutting it off those wires were going directly into the trolling motor. If it has proper volts at that point I am at a loss as to why it wont power on.
Motor will work when wired direct to a straight 24 volt setup, so it has to be something in the plug system, but I dont know which part when it all seems to have the proper volts going through it. |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | The motor works when connected directly to the same batteries, but not through the plug? Has to be the plug then or the wires connecting to it at the plug. If it was connected to different batteries or a 24V supply, you might have a bad cell in one of the batteries killing the current flow.
You didn't bypass a fuse or breaker when you connected directly to the batteries, did you? Could be corrosion that limits the current that can pass the safety device if you did. Fuses and inline holders can rust up and be a problem. A breaker that got wet can be the same way.
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | it was hooked up to different batteries. If there was a bad cell would the battery still test at 12.8 volts on teh multimeter?
I have inline circuit breakers on each positive battery cable. They appear to be working right, has power on the down current side of the breaker. Nothing changed in the wiring other than taking the old batteries out and installing the new ones. Wires were reconnected in the same way, nothing was done at the plug etc.
The only reason I'm thinking this internal jumper deal maybe the culprit is that the plug was left in when the charger was hooked up early this spring before getting the new batteries. So I'm wondering if maybe something burned out in that jumper that is allowing 24+ volts to go through when there is no load on it, but then not allowing the power through once there is a load. |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | I remember talking with a battery guy and him stating that a bad cell can still let you see full voltage, especially after a charge, but will not allow current to flow. |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | Just called batteries plus and was told that if the battery had a bad cell it wouldnt show full voltage. Can anyone clarify for certain one way or the other for me? I hate to disconnect everything and haul the batteries in to be tested if I can rule that out as being a potential problem. |
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Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | One small possibility, your breakers may be allowing voltage with no load through but when you try to power the motor, no dice. Easy to test, bypass both breakers temporarily. |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | I think I have it figured out. The internal jumper inside the plug was allowing 24 volts through until the motor tried to draw a load through it then was failing. So once the motor tried to turn on that jumper was only allowing 12 volts through.
Had my original plug tested today and it was fried. Picked up a replacement and will try that tonight. Will post if it works.
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Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Was this a Marinco Plug? |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | No it was a rig rite plug. Turns out that wasnt the problem, unless the new plug I got was also bad.
I'm thinking my best bet is to just get rid of this stupid 12/24 volt set up and run a straight 24 volt system with the jumper between batteries instead of the jumpered plug. If I do that can I get by just using what was the positive and negative wires from battery #1 and run them to positive on #1 and negative on #2(respectively) or is it not good to run 24 volts through the 10 gauge wire? Would it be safer to pull all the 10 gauge out and run new 6 or 8 gauge?
What is a quality brand plug/receptacle to buy? I just dont want to go through all this headache again.
On the bright side, it appears both my Pinpoint motors still work so I can return the new motor to Cabelas and save that $1000!!! Might get a new mapping unit yet this year (of course that will probably just open a new can of worms for me, lol)
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | I wouldn't be surprised with anything electrical that the new plug could be bad.
If you want to re-wire direct 24 I would run 6 gauge wire with an in-line breaker, this will decrease the resistance of the current flowing from battery to motor. you old system had each battery running on seperate 10 gauge wire to terminal. Simple repair, plus you can put inline circuit breaker. One thing that comes to mind is that you could probably run just a one 6 gauge wire for positive and jumper, and believe you might be able to get by using a 10 gauge ground from existing wire. Maybe a electrician can speak up on that.
Troyz |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | I have two inline 40 amp manual reset breakers that I had wired to my old set up. Can I wire through one of those or will the 40 amp not be sufficient?
Also, the new plug and receptacle I picked up(ConnectPro) only accept up to 8 gauge wire. To use 6 gauge I need to buy a different one. I measured the distance I'll be running the wires and it is 11 feet. Will there be safety issues if I use the 8 gauge? How much performance loss will I get if using 8 gauge instead of 6 over that distance?
I want to do this right since I'm doing it. Just that I have all the wire, plug/receptacle, connectors etc to rig it up with the 8 gauge, so if it isnt a safety issue and I wont get a significant drop in performance I might just go ahead and run the 8.
Edited by castmaster 6/4/2009 10:14 AM
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | You will be fine with 8 gauge, and the 40 amp breaker should be plenty. They typicall us 8g on 18' and shorter boat, and 6 over that, bigger is better, but it is no safety issue and will not impact performance.
Troyz |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | I went ahead and got the adapter needed to run 6 gauge to the receptacle. (On a side note, why do they recommend 6 gauge from battery to receptacle, but the trolling motors only have 10 gauge for wiring to the plug?) Figure if I'm going to take the time to do it I'd rather know its done right rather than just enough to get by.
I also picked up a 50 amp breaker since I was advised that would be a better option than using one of the existing 40's. To me it seems, by looks anyway, that my 40 amp breakers are much mroe heavy duty than the 50 amp I picked up today. The 40's came prewired with 6 gauge wire and are a sealed waterproof unit. Just the overall construction seems to be beefier, but 50 amp vs 40 amp is still just that. So am I better off hooking up the new 50 amp or running one of my existing 40's for a breaker?
(I attached pis of both breakers so you can get an idea what I'm talking about)
Attachments
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 40ampbreaker.jpg (76KB - 121 downloads)
50ampbreaker.jpg (53KB - 123 downloads)
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | Well I got everything rewired and new receptacle and plug installed. Everything works now, including both my pinpoint motors so I am one happy camper!
Thanks for all the help guys. May your '09 season be a good one!! |
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