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Posts: 32892
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1...
I think they will pull thorough this, but it shows what the economy did to the business. |
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Posts: 742
Location: Grand Rapids MN | I find it tough to even turn on the news anymore just because I know it's going to be a downer. Even the job loss posts on here hit home and I wonder when it is going to creep my direction. I was laid off mid-May for 15 weeks and since then our benefits have been suspended, the following week we receive a pay reduction and today I receive an email that 21 people are going to be cut out of 150. Don't know if I'm on the block yet. So ya.. I agree with Steve that it's tough and getting ugly out there. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | And I never, never take my active duty military job for granted. Kinda on the short end when the economy is booming, but still comfortable when things are tight. Living north of Detroit, I'm seeing it worse and worse every day here. |
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Posts: 1530
| its tough for sure. i live in windsor ontario. across from detroit. its sad theres not even a rush hour anymore.hopefully the powers above can finally see.free trade belongs in north america. |
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| I think a lot of companies like GM got themselves into the situation they are in. You need to adapt with the times and make changes. Look at Walmart for example. They are adding 150 stores this year and hiring 33,000 new employees. Their stock is around $50.00 per share, which isn't down much from it's highest point. They LOWERED prices on the things most people use every day. Times may be tough for some, but companies willing to adapt can benefit. |
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Location: MN | Thought people might find this interesting. The company which owns Ranger, Stratos, Champion and other brands has filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection from creditors. Doesn't sound like they are shutting doors but just re-organizing.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdoors/46664287.html?elr=KArks:... |
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | esoxfly - 6/1/2009 11:05 PM
And I never, never take my active duty military job for granted. Kinda on the short end when the economy is booming, but still comfortable when things are tight. Living north of Detroit, I'm seeing it worse and worse every day here.
Doesn't matter where ya live; I hear ya on the stable, yet less than stellar paying job. As a state worker, the deeper the economy tanks (to a point anyway) the better my wage looks. In a booming economy, my wage sucks by comparison. With close to 20 years in, I'm pretty safe from unemployment unless I'm the one who screws up.
s. |
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Posts: 699
Location: Hugo, MN | Pretty unfortunate but should we really be surprised? The cost of a 621 has ballooned from 35K to over 60K in the last 8 years. Not sure of the Dynamics of fiberglass manufacturing but that's pretty big jump. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | this is the tip of an iceberg and doesn't necessarily reflect a bad balance sheet or a negative future of companies that file. it's a result of the high-yield credit market essentially drying up. those who had debt structured in those markets (many, many, many companies) are no longer able to refinance with it because 1. the money isn't available or 2. if it is the regulations have changed for qualification. debt if not traded for equity through the sale of stock simply has to be financed. the bankruptcy courts are merely a means to an end that otherwise would have continued to be re-financed in the credit markets legally and quite normally without any publicity but still reflect the same overall shareholder value of the company.
bankruptcy has traditionally been associated with failing companies but will become a very popular alternative to refinancing and a little more matter-of-fact as this correction is made in the new economy. any bond-holder has rights in bankruptcy to propose alternative bundling and make a run at owning larger pieces after all is finalized, so it can be risky for companies who chose to use it. but if they have a sound balance sheet and good relationships with majority bond-holders it can be used strategically to wipe the slate cleaner and reduce the overall debt and it's cost going forward.
it's one of the most misunderstood processes that busineses have rights to.
i don't know the details of the Genmar situation but am familiar with details of other companies using the process to their advantage as we speak.
again many, many, many companies used the high-yield credit markets throughout the 90's and 00's and it's been in vogue as a strategic way to merge and finance growth especially huge deals. don't be surprised as the word "bankruptcy" becomes used more and mor with other very popular companies. the credit market dried up around the first of the year so everyone holding these kinds of notes close to maturity is preparing to go to court in Delaware.
maybe there is money to be made selling high-end street food on the streets near the courthouse in Delaware these days! ... don't fool yourselves, there are people making money in these "economic" times!!!! LMAO
Edited by jonnysled 6/2/2009 10:13 PM
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Posts: 32892
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Sled,
Genmar has been one to one (tangible) for quite a while. After the second quarter this year, they would have lost considerable ground forecasting a 31 to 35 million dollar loss. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | sworrall - 6/2/2009 11:12 PM
Sled,
Genmar has been one to one (tangible) for quite a while.
?? i don't understand what that means. |
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Posts: 32892
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Debt to hard and actual asset ratio, not counting 'intangibles'. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | anyone buying plastcs/petrochemical derivative products last year saw an unprecedented increase in raw materials followed by a crash of the same to historic lows ... all in one year. if anyone had contracts with price protection on the downstream side it was pretty painful, so much-so many claimed force-majure status. couple that with a evacuation of a credit market and recessionary-borderline depression minded consumers and it was a tough situation. the ratios you state suggest that it's more of a access to capital situation than balance-sheet health and i hope so for the sake of the overall industry. if-not, then we might see a more severe correction.
a couple years ago i saw vintage boat restoration as an opportunity area for market, business start-up or investors. i see it even more clearly now. anybody wanna invest some of that money they've wondered what to do with? it would be a winner ...!!! |
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| Those of us with jobs are considered rich by the new administration and therefore have to pay our "fair share" of taxes instead of buying such luxurious symbols of our wealth like boats. If I were a boat company I would not be forecasting any sales growth until the next administratation that recognizes what corporate tax cuts do for an economy. |
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Location: MN | Looking forward, I think the best bet for companies such as Genmar is to reduce capacity, shed assets and raise cash.
A few factors to consider: the housing and refi boom irrationally drove demand for discretionary items (such as new boats) up with home prices. People were leveraging their personal balance sheets up above what they could afford.... Applying this to the boat market, there were many new boats purchased above normal level of demand. My assumption is that boat manufacturers such as Ranger, Champion, etc... likely increased their capacity and output. Increasing their capacity meant they too leveraged up the balance sheet .
Today, as the economy de-levers, there is excess supply of "used" boats in the mkt. My point, even if the economy turns around in the next year, there is still excess supply of slightly used boats in the mkt. which will most likely be priced to sell. From a boat manufacturer point of view, demand for new producst will remain depressed for a while... demand for new boats will lag a turn-around in the economy.
The impact on Genmar, they should reduce capacity and cut costs because their demand/revenue will not return to organcic levels for some time. They should raise cash. They should raise cash because their cost of financing (coming out of Ch.11) will still remain high as investors will demand a higher risk premium. Higher cash balances will reduce need to tap the credit mkt. and will lower the cost of capital if they do.
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| One known fact.....Irwin Jacob is now reportable to someone....."THE BANK".
Yes Sir.....
No Sir....
I will get the details Sir.....
I can't get the mail Sir.....?
I can't sign checks Sir.......? |
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Genmar Chapter 11 (Ranger-Stratos-Champion)