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| I just got done watching a Keyes Outdoors episode on the DVR that I hadn't seen and got a really belly laugh out of a little "knock-off" rant Mike keyes went on. I am sorry guys but if it's better designed and longer lasting it's not a "knock-off" it's just plain a better lure. | |
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| There isn't much really new in the musky market. Pretty much everything is a knock off of another bait. The Weagle is a good bait but it's really just a knock off, slightly improved some would say, of a JackPot which in itself is just a knock off of a Zara Spook. And I bet the Spook is a knock off of something else. | |
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Location: On Lake St Clair Michigan | Just when you think that you have thought of something new ask an "Old Timer" , they will set you straight. | |
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Location: Appleton | I would bet Mike was just helping his sponsors which I would expect him to do. Without them his show wouldn't exist. Nothing wrong with that. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Rule number one with this business when 'helping a sponsor' is to NEVER...never...bash the competition. Tell folks why they should buy the sponsor's product, why that product is desirable, and vouch for the quality and brand strength but never go negative. | |
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| as an independent consultant making part of my living promoting products i would agree with the last post. the corrollary is only promote superior products. my reputation rests, in part, upon following these principles. | |
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| Well put steve. The lures they were using caught fish so I thought the "knock-off" rant was really at that point unnecessary! | |
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| Par for the course with this guy.
He does his sponsors no favors by loudly bashing the competition at sport shows, tournaments, and apparently even on TV ... I have witnessed it on multiple occasions. He needs to put the smokes away for half a second and re-evaluate what he's doing. As a sponsor I would not touch him with a ten foot pole - I would not want him representing me or my products. | |
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| He should probably be more careful in his rants because that whole "six degrees of separation" thing will bite you in the butt every time.
Keyes Outdoors major advertiser = Musky Innovations
Musky Innovations business partner = Trophy Tech/Reaction Strike/Rick Quade
Reaction Strike = Major producer of knock-off lures
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| Just as was said above, few musky fishing items are new and innovative. Truly the Musky Innovations Bull Dawg was new and innovative in many ways. And as everyone knows, it truly catches fish. But then again the Big Joe was around before the Bull Dawg and lets face it the basic design is very, very similar. I am sure something was around before the Big Joe but am not sure what it was... All the sour grapes about knock offs of Bull Dawgs are to due to lost sales to their competitors. I see these lost sales as a result of poor business decisions made directly by Musky Innovations- for years Bull Dawgs had quality issues and as a company they were slow to react. They have noone to blame but themselves for these lost sales. If they were building a quality product for the last several years, they would have more market share today- sure there would be competitors- but most people would have stuck with the original. One final thing, I use Musky Innovation Bull Dawgs- even if I have to change the rings and hooks on each bait before they hit the water and some of them fall apart before I catch a fish. But I must admit I am really considering switching over to the competitors products.
John | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Musky Innovations has already made the changes you have mentioned, the 2009 Dawgs rock, are tough and built to last, and will get the job done in spades. This thread has nothing to do with that subject, and won't go there, either; it's been covered several times already. Brad and company stand behind the brand, and have the lead in brand recognition, distribution, and market share. | |
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| LOL Keyes Outdoors is not the original musky fishing show so aren't they a "knock off" show? LMAO! Get real Mike! Your major sponsors make lures that are similar AKA "knock offs" from your definition. WOW! | |
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| How many of the MuskieFirst people know the bulldawg was invented back in 1994!!!! And it took 15 years or so to really come to market!! The Big Joe was invented around the same time/market so they really are two of the very first plastic swimbaits ever of their kind.
I agree Mike should have been focusing on his sponsers bait while promoting it and not even mentioning other people that make baits similar. Bad Advertising in my book!
Mr Musky | |
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Location: The desert | Fisherman are just knock off's of native spear fisherman. | |
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| Forgot to point out that the new "innovative" coil harness in the new Dawgs arre the exact same harness that is in the Tackle Industries SuperD. So copying is ok, it just depends on who you are?? I was actually a little surprised when I saw a picture of the new Dawg harness and it is identical to the SuperD one. Just a funny side note for all. | |
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Location: Sun Prairie, WI | What’s the deal with everyone getting so upset with so called “copying?” Who really cares?! Everything is a copy of the original regardless of what the product is otherwise we’d all be driving the same brand of car, wearing one brand of blue jeans, drinking the same brand of beer, watching the same TV, using the same type of computer, using the same software, harvesting farm fields with the same brand of equipment, using the same brand of golf equipment, and on and on and on. But, when it comes to fishing equipment, people get all uptight about so called copies or knock offs. Sure, there are minor differences, but essentially they are the same regardless of type of bait or brand of bait. You think a Cowgirl is innovative? To some extent, yes it surely is, but when you get down to brass tacks it’s a modification of an old standby, the bucktail. Sorry, but the bucktail was around long before Cowgirls. It’s simply a modification of an existing type of lure. BTW, I’m not picking on Cowgirls, just using it as an example. I could have used golf equipment just as easily, or pencils or anything else you see in your field of vision every second of every day. Differences, yes, but essentially, all the same. A TV is a TV. Yes, there are differences in quality and features, but they all work the same, meaning you turn it on and you can view something either live or recorded. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | BL Whoppertail. Double bladed bucktail form a very long time ago. I think a picture of one is painted on the side of the big propane tank in Boulder Junction. | |
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Location: Sun Prairie, WI | sworrall - 6/3/2009 11:01 AM
BL Whoppertail. Double bladed bucktail form a very long time ago. I think a picture of one is painted on the side of the big propane tank in Boulder Junction.
Good point, Steve. Larry Dahlberg was fiddling with double bladed bucktails many years ago as well.
Although I don't want to take this thread off course from the original poster, I just think it's ironic that so many people are worried about so called "copying" of a bait, but they have no problem with just about every thing else they own being copied from somewhere at some point in time.
Edited by gtp888 6/3/2009 11:29 AM
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| One could argue that the bulldawg is just an adaptation of the original curley tailed rubber bait known as the Mr Twister. I'm not sure how old those are but I had them as a kid. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It's basically a Creature with the jig head on the inside. Great idea, yet does pretty much the same thing. They got bigger and bigger with time, and are now called 'swimbaits'. Cool lures all the way. | |
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Location: Oregon | Mr Musky - 6/2/2009 10:38 PM
How many of the MuskieFirst people know the bulldawg was invented back in 1994!!!! And it took 15 years or so to really come to market!! The Big Joe was invented around the same time/market so they really are two of the very first plastic swimbaits ever of their kind.
Mr Musky
The bulldawg might have been the first to look like it does but there were soft plastic lures around for decades before 1994. There are swimbaits that are probably 75 years old or older that are very similar in shape to dawgs and the Joe. Musky Innovations does deserve credit for bringing the dawg to the mainstream musky world though.
RM
Edited by RiverMan 6/3/2009 5:43 PM
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Location: Oswego, IL | Everything is a knock off if you look at it like that. From Cars, to humans. So whats the big deal? I guess I dont get it, knock offs are usually just as good or sometimes better, thats not a knock off thats a improved product. If its originally made here and then China makes it and falls apart - thats a knock off. Or a Nike T shirt made in china and sold on the internet as a Nike shirt thats a knock off. Here is the real definition:
Main Entry: knock·off
Pronunciation: \'näk-?o?f\
Function: noun
Date: 1966
: a copy that sells for less than the original ; broadly : a copy or imitation of someone or something popular
So these lures are not selling for less, they are not a copy(a copy means the exact same if you didnt know) or an imitation because they are built with different materials, wieght, size, quality.
Edited by muskiewhored 6/3/2009 5:53 PM
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| quality and then price is how i buy. if the "original" can't get it right then its not my fault. | |
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| With all due respect to everyone on this forum, do you honestly not have a clue as to how the tackle industry works? Do you want to start your own "knock off" company? If you have a few bucks saved up go here:
http://www.chinalure.com/soft%20lure/musky%20lure.htm
and before you know it, boom! You'll have your own line of Alien Eels, Dawgs, Uptown Dawgs, Nibblers, Twin Fins, etc. Or do a google search on "china fishing lures" and you'll find every lure that's considered unique or innovative. They're all available to you with varying minimums.
My point is that they're all available, they're all legal as there are no patents on any of these lures and you could be selling them yourself within a few months. It's a simple matter of morality. Is it right to do it? I don't know. If there are no patents on any of these lures it's legally ok to sell the same thing. My issue is that if you set patents and legalities aside, is it ok to do it simply because you can get away with it? I fall on the side of no, it's not right. | |
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Location: Sun Prairie, WI | Getaclue - 6/5/2009 11:29 PM
With all due respect to everyone on this forum, do you honestly not have a clue as to how the tackle industry works? Do you want to start your own "knock off" company? If you have a few bucks saved up go here:
http://www.chinalure.com/soft%20lure/musky%20lure.htm
and before you know it, boom! You'll have your own line of Alien Eels, Dawgs, Uptown Dawgs, Nibblers, Twin Fins, etc. Or do a google search on "china fishing lures" and you'll find every lure that's considered unique or innovative. They're all available to you with varying minimums.
My point is that they're all available, they're all legal as there are no patents on any of these lures and you could be selling them yourself within a few months. It's a simple matter of morality. Is it right to do it? I don't know. If there are no patents on any of these lures it's legally ok to sell the same thing. My issue is that if you set patents and legalities aside, is it ok to do it simply because you can get away with it? I fall on the side of no, it's not right.
So, do you buy only "the orignial" of everything in your life, meaning cars, jeans,
chainsaws, golf clubs, and every other thing that exists on Earth, or do you only hold this standard to fishing tackle for some very strange reason? If not, seems to me you've made my point for me, see my post above, and you're not living up to what you're preaching.
Edited by gtp888 6/6/2009 9:47 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | In the fishing tackle industry, it's BRAND that matters. Develop a solid product, market it to the target audience as efficiently as one can, and develop that brand. When all similar lures are commonly referred to as 'Dawgs', or DCGs, or Dardevles because that's the first name to mind, there you have it. Stores will want that brand because the consumer asks for it. That's the task set for any lure company loking to make it in any serious volume in the retail market.
That said, the secondary market, Ebay for example, sets a new paradigm and can be successfully implemented big lure company...or small. Brand still counts, but usually with most it's 'as good as' in the pitch line. This is a free market economy (for awhile yet, I hope) and all is acceptable to me; it's up to the company how they develop that brand loyalty and recognition. Those who don't, don't hang around long. | |
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| Knock-offs have been around forever and always will be. The funny thing is that these so called "knock-offs" are often made better and have slight modifications to them to make them "different." Yes, different. I have not found a brand of a lure on the market yet that fishes exactly the same as a different brand. Just because the shape of the lure might appear similar, does not mean it fishes the same. Besides that, if it weren't for "knock-offs", we would all be spending $20-$30 minimum on a lure and that is ridiculous. If you can't handle the heat with other competition, you shouldn't be in the business industry. A certain "knock-off" is my go to lure at the moment for half the price. Works better and catches more fish for less.
Edited by Baby Mallard 6/6/2009 11:57 AM
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | JJ is right QUALITY 1st !!!!!!!!!!! with a good price. I could care less about brand name, if a brand name plastic bait falls apart from casting, I will buy who ever can get it right. If a original brand can not find a way to stay competitive, I will buy from a CO. that is. What PO's me the most is when a brand name co. trys to sell junk under there brand name and trys to get top $$$ for it. | |
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Location: janesville | there not really knock offs just modifications to an original lure to make it better or different | |
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Location: Oregon | As a consumer I think it is easy to say "competition is good and there is no such thing as a knock-off". But if you spent months of your time developing a lure and thousands of dollars producing it only to see it copied and made by someone else I think most would see it differently.
Fishing lures have been around a long, long, time and trying to make something unique is almost impossible. As a lure builder, I enjoy taking lure concepts and trying to put my personality into something slightly different. I have lures that I have literally worked on for months to get them right and someone could very easily repoduce them in a day. I guess it just depends on one's investment and perspective.
Jed V.
Edited by RiverMan 6/7/2009 11:33 AM
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| THIS IS WHY ARE COUNTRY IS IN BAD SHAPE DUE TO CHINA, I CALLED TODAY TO ORDER A FEW BAITS AND HE SAID HE'S WAITING FOR THE SHIPMENT FROM OVER SEA'S LET' TRY TO CHECK THINGS BEFORE WE BUY... IT NEEDS TO SAY MADE IN USA. | |
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| First of all lets take a look at a "knock off" really is, and it is not what is being described here. I didn't see the show, so I can't speak to anymore than what I am hearing here, but the corrollation between a DCG and a Bucktail, or other swimbaits and a Bull Dawg is called competition, not Knock offs. A couple years ago I was in Freeport Bahamas and bought a "Rolex" for $100. If you set it next to my real one and stood back a foot you couldn't tell the difference, words were correct, markings were correct, that was a "knock off", it was produced with the intention of deception by giving the unparallelled illusion that it was a genuine Rolex. I will use this example only as an example, but a Super D is not a knock off of a Bull Dawg. Do they look similiar, sure, do they serve the same purpose, sure, but those things alone do not make it a knock off because the Super D's are not being marketed as Bull Dawgs, they have their own brand name, their own customer base and exist solely on their own merit. A Weagle is it's own product, just like its competitors, Jackpot, Homewrecker, Viper, sure they all share the same basic principle of a walk the dog topwater, that only makes them competitors not knock offs of each other. The same can be said about everything you see in everyday life, a Tuffy 1890 is not a knock off of a Ranger 619, or vice versa, an Okuma EVX is not a knock off of a St Croix Premier, or vice versa either. Now conceivably someone could purchase an inferior blank, matching components, and build a rod identical to a St Croix Premier. If he put on the St Croix Logos, and marketed it as a St Croix Premier it would be a knock off, but if he gave it a different name and logo, even if it is similiar, while marketing it as its own brand it would be free enterprise. The very principle that built this country.
Edited by JeffPaasch 6/25/2009 9:14 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | GREAT post, thank you. | |
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| sworrall - 6/6/2009 10:00 AM
In the fishing tackle industry, it's BRAND that matters. Develop a solid product, market it to the target audience as efficiently as one can, and develop that brand.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with that one. Maybe on the manufacturer's end its viewed that way, but not on my end as a consumer.
I could give two hoots what name is on the grill of my truck, my motor's clamshell or in the box my favorite crankbait comes in. What I care about is whether or not it works and holds up and is affordable. Once you show me those things, and keep it up, THEN your brand's got my attention.
I like Rapala crankbaits for walleye and Bucher stuff for muskie fishing because they just plain work. It doesn't matter to me that they're a "Rapala" or "Bucher," it matters to me that RAPALA and BUCHER lures work and catch fish and do it better and/or cheaper than the other guys.
Brand means nothing to me until its proven itself, but it needs to keep doing so. And, I think that's exactly at the heart of what we're talking about here. If your name is Mr. Mousetrap, and someone builds a better one, or at least one for a lesser price for about the same money that works just the same, or that Mr. Mousetrap is having ongoing quality issues and is cutting corners......too bad, so sad. I'm jumping ship with all the other rats. Mmmm, maybe that was a bad animal to pick in that instance.
-Eric | |
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Location: Bemidji, MN | JeffPaasch - 6/25/2009 9:09 PM
First of all lets take a look at a "knock off" really is, and it is not what is being described here. I didn't see the show, so I can't speak to anymore than what I am hearing here, but the corrollation between a DCG and a Bucktail, or other swimbaits and a Bull Dawg is called competition, not Knock offs. A couple years ago I was in Freeport Bahamas and bought a "Rolex" for $100. If you set it next to my real one and stood back a foot you couldn't tell the difference, words were correct, markings were correct, that was a "knock off", it was produced with the intention of deception by giving the unparallelled illusion that it was a genuine Rolex. I will use this example only as an example, but a Super D is not a knock off of a Bull Dawg. Do they look similiar, sure, do they serve the same purpose, sure, but those things alone do not make it a knock off because the Super D's are not being marketed as Bull Dawgs, they have their own brand name, their own customer base and exist solely on their own merit. A Weagle is it's own product, just like its competitors, Jackpot, Homewrecker, Viper, sure they all share the same basic principle of a walk the dog topwater, that only makes them competitors not knock offs of each other. The same can be said about everything you see in everyday life, a Tuffy 1890 is not a knock off of a Ranger 619, or vice versa, an Okuma EVX is not a knock off of a St Croix Premier, or vice versa either. Now conceivably someone could purchase an inferior blank, matching components, and build a rod identical to a St Croix Premier. If he put on the St Croix Logos, and marketed it as a St Croix Premier it would be a knock off, but if he gave it a different name and logo, even if it is similiar, while marketing it as its own brand it would be free enterprise. The very principle that built this country.
Great post Jeff! Pretty much right on the head! | |
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Location: The desert | Sheesh, way to go Jeff, now we don't get 4 pages of arguing. | |
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Location: Oregon | So if you don't use the companies name on the product it is not a knock-off?
I think the USPTO (United State Patent Trade Office) would very much disagree with you and so would any patent attorney.
RM
Edited by RiverMan 6/26/2009 2:22 PM
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Location: APPLETON, WI | muskie-addict - 6/25/2009 11:02 PM
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with that one. Maybe on the manufacturer's end its viewed that way, but not on my end as a consumer.
I could give two hoots what name is on the grill of my truck, my motor's clamshell or in the box my favorite crankbait comes in. What I care about is whether or not it works and holds up and is affordable. Once you show me those things, and keep it up, THEN your brand's got my attention.
-Eric
I agree with this.
I think even as consumers we're spoon-fed to look at name brand items from the time we're children. Look at things like sneakers, clothing, basic household products, etc, etc.
I think sometimes we're more interested in the label on the product than the product itself.
if it works... to heck with the label. Knock-off or not... I'm going to use the product that I feel is superior.
My two pennies. | |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | That is what a big co wants, for the avg joe to get suck into buying brand name, when they have you, they think they can sell you any kind of junk because it says a brand name. I and many used a brand name plastic bait that would fall apart after casting it for 2-3 hours. the first ones that they made 5 years ago did not, they thought they had you and could sell you junk because of there band name, so they could make more profit $$$ I now will buy from who ever can make a quality bait at a fair price. | |
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Location: Smith Creek | If the added expense of a brand name is all in marketing the consumer loses. If the added expense goes to quality assurance and customer service and R&D the consumer wins. | |
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Location: Oswego, IL | Get people hooked = major advertising = legal brain washing. Biggest of it is huge companys with big bank rolls =
Most "Major" companies, and I am not saying this all has to do with the fishing industry, build the product here in US to begin as smaller companies obviously, they are more hands on and frankly have more enthusiasm to have a great product. Then if it takes off, they try to figure out how to make even more money on the same product (US GREED) so what happens, find the place that can make it the cheapist to maximize proffits, great idea who wouldnt? BUT, usually that ends up another country (mainly China these days) So now you have a company who HAD hands on production, which does not anymore. Standards drop, quality drops, service drops, US employment drops, proffits RISE. You would think the lower price would be passed to consumer, lol, not in a million years. We all know how the business system works, so if anyone thinks these "Major" companies care about the consumer more than proffit, you might have a learning disability! Wonder why we have such a huge deficit? WE dont export hardly anything, but import everything. Some of which if were made here wouldnt be up to US standards, so they label them with warning labels so they can sit on our shelves. The biggest thing the US makes for its own people is mainly Pharmaceuticals, beer, and cigarettes! Pretty much anything we can be addicted to, thats scary!!
So back to the topic, I agree with Jeff said, very awsome post. Riverman as far as getting around patents all you need to do is change 5% of the original, and your free. For example a t -shirt 100% cotton, use 5% polyester 95% cotton, its yours!
Oh, forgot this is only my personal opinion(Rant).
Edited by muskiewhored 6/26/2009 11:09 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | A 'knockoff' by definition is indeed a product that is a dead copy of a product and brand, usually illegal, name and all. A 'copy' or 'imitation' isn't, necessarily.
'Brain washing' doesn't work if the product is not up to par.
Our US based consumers...you...demand the lower production prices on many products China, Viet Nam, and Mexico offer, so guess what, that's what we get.
Major Corporations are owned by the public. If you bitch about stock prices for one of those companies because your retirement portfolio took a hit, and in the same breath scream 'buy American', which by definition INCLUDES MEXICO, by the way, you are a bit of a hypocrite.
You...the stock holders...are the folks who the same Corporations REPORT TO.
A brand name product that loses it's quality long term is gone. Ask the US Auto Builders about that one, the Japanese handed their hinder to them a couple decades back and are about to do the same, but for different reasons still not all that far removed. if you don't offer what consumers want, they will buy another BRAND that does!
You, 'as a consumer' know a brand that is quality is worth buying, and will pay for it above and beyond the allure of a 'copy' that isn't up to one or both requirements. The manufacturer has to earn that brand loyalty, and believe me, the brand is very valuable when that is accomplished. If a 'copy' comes along offering high quality at a lower price, then the associated BRAND will become well known and popular.....for that. Usually, if the 'copy' brand is, after becoming somewhat well known, offered in retail stores and is very successful, the same pricing pressures the other shelf Brands have (discounts to the retailer, advertising co-op with retailer, stocking fees, the cost of acquiring bar code equipment, and more) will drive up the price to close to the original Brand's pricing. Hmmm.
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| Bondy Baits are made right here, not overseas and never will be. Jon Bondy | |
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Location: Eagle River, WI | It's called capitalism. God bless America. Jeff Paasch great post. I buy things that work. I don't care if it says chevy, pepsi, or sony on the side. If it works I use it, if it doesn't I won't buy it again. End of story. | |
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Location: Bemidji, MN | so true ^^ | |
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| that's why co are trowing millions of dollars because they want to make sure you will remember their name,most human are easy to brainwash.it can be junk but if they spend all that money on tv,radio,internet that will make you think they sell quality even if it's not the case.for example mc donalds are almost everywhere in the world,but is that a great restaurants??or is that a restaurant that deserve to be so widely represented?
concerning clothes imho there is a tons of better brands than nike,but most of their clients buy that because they think they have a superior product and they also like the public image related to the product.that's why you can get a better product for less money but you will stick with nike
i don't like it but i think musky lures market must be like it | |
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| sworrall - 6/26/2009 5:42 PM
Our US based consumers...you...demand the lower production prices on many products China, Viet Nam, and Mexico offer, so guess what, that's what we get.
Major Corporations are owned by the public. If you good guy about stock prices for one of those companies because your retirement portfolio took a hit, and in the same breath scream 'buy American', which by definition INCLUDES MEXICO, by the way, you are a bit of a hypocrite.
You...the stock holders...are the folks who the same Corporations REPORT TO.
Spot on! | |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | there is only 1 true Twizzler ... the rest are just cheap imitations | |
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Location: Muskegon Michigan | Ill step into this discussion softly. As a Manufacturer of Muskie lures I can tell you that things were very different before Bill Cinton, Nafta, G.A.T.T. and rampant Globalism. Ross Perot said in a segment on C-SPAN many years ago that While the United States was watching Bill and Monica Our PATENT rights were being transferred to the World Trade organization. What exactly did this move by our congress do? What it did was basically end the Governments involvement in policing International patent infringements. In other words now anyone can copy a product overseas and sell it back here under a different name. Horrible legislation which has crushed innovation in this country. Globalism period has crushed this country. Free(unrestricted) trade opens the door to the exploitation of cheap and sometimes slave and child labor. In effect this put a communist country(China) in control of capitalism. We should only have free trade with nations that share our living standards and currency value. And to answer one of the other posters, this country did not ask for cheap products. We were sold a handful of beans by multinational corporate backed Presidents like George Bush SR. and Bill Clinton. If you want the truth go back and watch the debates between Bush, Clinton and Perot. Its all there. Perot knew that removing our trade protections and patent rights would cause a race to the bottom. It all happened exactly as he predicted.
Before Clinton patent infringements did not go unpunished . Today copying products is commonplace and rampant. I had a Glue maker tell me that to patent a product today is asking for someone to copy you because that is how they find your product in the first place. I build 13 different crank baits and some of them are what I would call similar to several long standing plastic baits. Others are completely my own design and frankly my best producing lures. So sometimes copying another is just compounding their terrible designs.
I believe that it is wrong to completely lick for lick copy another mans work and sell it as your own from music and films to ink pens and fishing lures and hundreds of thousands of other products. Unfortunately today these matters are policed by a very corrupt Globalist World trade organization . The U.S. government will only act and seize shipments of direct Knock offs of major corporations that have the millions of dollars it takes to go to Bilderburg Switzerland and fight it at the World Trade org. Small companies have no defense against being ripped off by others. So why would anyone patent anything today? You do all the leg work, pay thousands to develop your product and someone comes along and sends it to china, copies it , changes the name and he is out selling you because his product is cheaper? Im sorry but its wrong, should be illegal and should be enforced by the United States Government.
Variations off of another theme have never been an issue with patent infringements. All the way back to the first patents. Call them improvements, variations, similar, etc. If you take a design and change it you are not infringing on a patent or copyright. My beef is with exact copies. The Chinese knockoffs of everything have to go. In my opinion. Mike | |
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| Mr Musky - 6/2/2009 10:38 PM
How many of the MuskieFirst people know the bulldawg was invented back in 1994!!!! And it took 15 years or so to really come to market!! The Big Joe was invented around the same time/market so they really are two of the very first plastic swimbaits ever of their kind.
I agree Mike should have been focusing on his sponsers bait while promoting it and not even mentioning other people that make baits similar. Bad Advertising in my book!
Mr Musky
They may be the first mass produced plastic swimbaits to reach the larger market. But guys were pouring their own versions of those back in the 70's. The whole knock off idea is pretty silly in my opinion. The lures we think of as "original" are likely knock offs of something our grandfathers were making in the 1950's. | |
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| I have always enjoyed watching Keyes Outdoors, but has said before, you should definitely not bash the competition. Sooner than you know it, the close musky fishing community would turn into a mud-slinging market, like most others. Compete with your competitors on innovation and product differentiation. Not bashing products of others.
I think of Keyes referred to the other lures as a "spin off of x," it would have been better. Spin-off sounds like a different version, or even a slight improvement to me, where as knock-off, just sounds like a stolen piece of foreign-made garbage. | |
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Location: oswego, il | good thing those original folks at mr twister have thick skin! | |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | I personally LIKE that people are making "knock-offs" and trying to re-invent the wheel in ways that are appealing to customers. Why? It increases competition, makes builders/manufacturers create better product and sell at a price point that is competitive. I can tell you at least 4 or 5 major muskie lure marketers that have lapsed into complacency (sp?) in their products lines (and in some cases have seen quality plummet) after seeing success, but then re-dedicated their efforts towards building better and more appealing products when faced with "knock-off" competition.
It's good for all of us. Just makes making money selling lures tougher for those making them. Sorry, not going to feel bad for them. We live in a (mostly) free market economy and this DOES happen in all walks of the economy here in the United States. | |
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| what co are you talking about? | |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | bladeno20 - 6/18/2013 10:40 AM
what co are you talking about?
Really don't feel like ripping on companies and start a whole new debate! | |
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| From what I've heard, all bull dawgs are made in the US. | |
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"knock-offs"