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Posts: 743
| Did a comparison of these 2 rods on the water for the first time. Had a Revo Toro with regular handle on the Predator and Induron with a power handle on the Steel 25. Started out with Double 10's and worked smaller. Both rods threw Double 10's with equal ease. The Induron pulled them in a little easier than the Revo. When I put a power handle on the Revo I'll see if that makes a difference. I think the regular handle and the power handle on the Revo are the same length so don't know if it will make a difference. Threw Double 9's,Bucher 700's, Mepps Muskie Killers, Rizzo Wizz's,and old style Baby Buchers with the French blade. When you got to the Baby Bucher and Rizzo the Predator threw them better than the Steel,which I didn't expect because it has a heavier action. Threw twitch baits from 6" Grandmas to 9" Big Games and the new 10 " Slammers. They both threw them easily but if you want to rip em the Predator was the hands down winner. The Predator XH is just an awesome rod that works well with #*^@ near everything. |
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Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | Was there any doubt - St. Croix all the way! |
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Posts: 743
| Jsondag - 5/18/2009 5:40 PM
Was there any doubt - St. Croix all the way!
Built by St. Croix. Designed by Lonnie
Edited by KSauers 5/18/2009 4:57 PM
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Posts: 136
Location: Chicago | I passed on the slingblade and went with the H predator. 9' blank no extensions, custom fat cork, sleek stl. blue color,and lifetime warranty. I put a lot of thought into this purchase I now know I made the right decision for myself. Next is one of those Calstar customs a lot of you guys had made up by Frank. |
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Posts: 1184
Location: Iowa Great Lakes | I have the H Predator and was surprised also on the variety of baits this rod can work with ease. I didn't think a 9' rod would work well with Hellhounds, boy was I mistaken. No regrets at all in buying one. |
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Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | KSauers - 5/18/2009 4:55 PM
Jsondag - 5/18/2009 5:40 PM
Was there any doubt - St. Croix all the way!
Built by St. Croix. Designed by Lonnie
Designed and made by St. Croix, built by Lonnie. |
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Posts: 90
| KSauers had it right the first time. |
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Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | Not really. Asking for a certain weight and action doesn't mean you designed the rod. I think Lonnie is hands down the best rod builder out there. he has built 10 rods for me in the last 4 years. But the fact is, the engineers at St. Croix Designed the blanks Lonnie requested. I was there at Park Falls last winter fiddling with the test blanks before they were decided on.
Edited by Jsondag 5/18/2009 11:29 PM
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Posts: 303
Location: WI | Is the predator blank 'light & crisp'? (As light and crisp as a 9 footer can be I guess) Similar to Avids or TL's?? Better?? What graphite is it made with? Does it have the new technology? |
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Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | It is the same physical and technological make up of the Legend tournaments. However, they are a tad more moderate than their predecessor.
I rank the Predators and the LT's in this order. From heaviest to lightest in the three weights.
6. Big Dawg LT (XHF)
5. Predator XHF
4. Slingblade LT (HF)
3. Predator HF
2. Top-n-tail LT (MH)
1. Predator MH
I have all of these rods, and they are all awesome. They are all made with the IPC - ART technology that St. Croix has trademarked, and all are made with SCvi High Modulous graphite. The only true difference is that the Predators come in a solid 9' blank rather than a 8'6" like the longest of the LT's.
Edited by Jsondag 5/19/2009 8:05 AM
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| Where would you put the older Avid 8' HF in that list? Someone posted elsewhere that it feels similar to the slingblade in terms of backbone. I'm sure the new rods are lighter, longer and stronger, but do they load up about the same? |
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Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | No, the Avid weight wise would fall a close to the Slingblade between it and the Pred XHF. As for action, the Avid HF I had was a 8' custom so a stock rod may be different, but, I would put the action between the Pred XHF and the Big Dawg. I remember my Avid being faster tipped than the Slingblade is now. That action on the Sling is so unique for a rod of that size, that's what makes it so popular. It seems much more like a slightly Moderate / Fast action to me than just a Fast - labeling it just "Fast" does the action an injustice. |
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Location: Oswego, IL | I agree, my slingblade just seems like the avid on steriods and wearing a better suit. lol. I have both, and now only use my avid for jerk baits and smaller bucktails (backed with toro 60hs). Love them both actually a lot. It kinda stinks I have to put a heavier reel on the slingblade for what I am using it for (saltist/10's-12s) rod itself is really light. Would be awsome if I felt the toro could handle burning bucks all day, otherwise that would be a awsome combo, the feel of that reel and slingblade combo is awsome. really light. |
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Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | Man, you are gonna start a riot saying that the Revo Toro can't handle blades all day - All the reps claim they can - So they must be able to right - BURP!  |
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Posts: 743
| Jsondag - 5/18/2009 11:47 PM
KSauers - 5/18/2009 4:55 PM
Jsondag - 5/18/2009 5:40 PM
Was there any doubt - St. Croix all the way!
Built by St. Croix. Designed by Lonnie
Designed and made by St. Croix, built by Lonnie.
Try it again.
Designed by Lonnie
Blank made by St. Croix.
Rod built by Lonnie |
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Location: Oswego, IL | Well...... maybe they can, but I am not going to be the ginniepig on that one. I will use it after this year for 10's if things go well with everyone. We ALL will know how it does within 5 months for sure. Im not even going to really fish until July 3rd which will be in LOTW so I am not going to take the chance of going down one reel while there. P.S. reps arent biased are they?....cough, cough... |
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Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | So Lonnie was at the dry erase board doing the math to figure the parabola of the 9' blank to an 8'6" of the same weight and action? Then he was on the cpu figuring the poly curve / arc over and over until it was correct for that action? He must have hid or had a disguise on when I was there? Amazing! |
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Location: Oswego, IL | From what I heard he was over at the manufacture working directly with them for what he wanted them to make him to start with, so possible he did work on all that stuff. Who knows for sure, I still went with the Original Slingblade though just because I wanted the words Sling Blade on it and a lifetime gurantee. lol!!! Yeah I know they both are also guranteed, but I would assume #2 goes out of business before #1. |
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Posts: 743
| Alright already relax.
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Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | Last word! |
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Posts: 814
| KSAUERS is 100% correct!
St. Croix Built the predator blanks...Yes!
But they were design by Lonnie to his Specs.....Yes!
That's why they are available only through thornes! If Lonnie had nothing to do with it they would be available at every major musky retailer worldwide just like every other st. croix.
That's why the predator line is not on St. Croixs website.
Everyone looking for ?'s or answers regarding the legend vs. the predator should call thornes and talk directly to lonnie, he will tell you everything even who did what when and where. That way there is no more hearsay!
Edited by mskyhntr 5/19/2009 8:35 PM
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Location: Smith Creek | The reason St. Croix makes the 9' only for Thorne's is the shipping costs for a one piece 9' is ridiculous and they didn't want to lose money shipping them all across the country. Thorne's custom ordered a 9' Slingblade blank. Period. Shipping from Park Falls to Fridley is cheap. |
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Posts: 814
| With as much as St. Croix gets for their rods, I highly doubt shipping costs for a 9 footer makes them sweat. Plus if they shipped more than one at once its even cheaper. I shipped one 9 footer to northern minnesota from illinois last fall it cost me 18.00 from Speedy delivery. Hardly worth talking about IMO.
And since shipping is so ridiculous maybe St. Croix should just ship a special 9 footer to R&H since there closer yet, that way they save even more shipping..... Flambeauski, you post cracks me up
Edited by mskyhntr 5/20/2009 9:40 AM
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Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | Actually for the amount of rods they produce shipping costs are quite a concern. |
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Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | Just off the phone with Lonnie reading him the thread. We agreed that it is the definition of "design". That is in question.
Bottom line is He went to St. Croix struck a deal for a "requested" one piece 9' solid blank in three actions and in three weights. He was at Park Falls when Jason and the other engineers had produced the new mandrels and tooling to make the blanks he asked for. Lonnie then discussed with them what he thought of the blank St. Croix physically designed. Any changes, any issues were then redone by the designing engineers.
So in essence, Lonnie agreed that my first lengthy description of the chain of process is "100% correct". Lonnie requested / "Verbally Designed" the Blanks like someone who calls in a rod order, designs their custom rod - The only difference is he did go to Park Falls to quality control during the Design process by the engineers.
Bottom line - Lonnies concept, St. Croix's physical design, tooling, materials, and quality. Lonnies, finishing rod work!
This whole stupid thing is about vocabulary.
Edited by Jsondag 5/20/2009 10:03 AM
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Location: Oswego, IL | So to finish this nicely, we are all correct! In our own way. Nice chats! |
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Location: Smith Creek | Like I said, shipping 50 9' blanks to MN is cheap, but when you have to ship 1 rod to some guy in NJ the price goes from $15 for a 8'6" to $65 for a 9'. And if a dealer in FL orders 5 7' rods and 1 9' rod the shipping cost just went from $15 to $65. Look on St. Croix's website and count the number of 1 piece rods over 8'6". If they can control who buys the blanks (Thorne's) they can ship Speedee and keep the price down. |
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Posts: 90
| You are correct that the only delivery company that doesn't gouge someone to ship a rod over 8'6 is Speedee and that is why St Croixs are not built to 9ft, but that is a seperate issue from what the Predator line is and why they are exclusive to Thorne. It also doesn't answer why a Rollie and Helens, Guides Choice, Reeds or even any other custom rod builder within the Speedee delivery area are unable to order them direct from St Croix. The reason these are exclusive to Thorne is because Thorne wanted a rod with specific actions and made a deal with St Croix to produce those rods, part of that deal was that Lonnie would work with St Croix to produce the desired actions (which has been covered enough). Another part of that deal was the end product would be exclusive to Thorne. the fact that Speedee does the shipping from St Croix to Thorne allowed for Thorne to get a 9ft one piece rod shipped without it costing an arm and a leg.
I don't see what is so hard to grasp about this? The Predator line isn't something that happened because St Croix wanted to control the flow of 9' rods that went out the door by offering them only thru Thornes. There is no conspiracy theory involved. Thorne asked with terms in mind, St Croix agreed to said terms, the Predator was the end result.
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Posts: 734
| ANyone know what the cost is on the Predator in a 9 foot model?
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Posts: 307
| When I was at Thornes last time the blank cost between the slingblade and 9 ft Predator heavy was about the same. Don't remember the cost exactly. I could give you what it cost for my Predator 9.5 ft, but I went all out with the titanium guides so that wouldn't do much good. |
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Location: Eagan, MN | Prices are on the TB website. |
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Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | Spoke with Rich at St. Croix as well today - I told him to jump on, but he didn't feel he needed to get into this Pi$$ing match.
According to Rich - And I quote - There are only maybe 5-8 people in the country that actually "Design" a blank - The rest Just make "Requests" to have a certain blank made, It is up to those engineers who "Design" to come up with the tooling and process to get the "Requested" blank built. As awesome of a rod "Builder" as Lonnie is, what he did was "Request" a very specific blank special to his specifications, which had to be "Designed" by the engineers. Quality control was done by both. Then Lonnie and Thornes got a very special and specific selection of blanks designed by St. Croix that met Lonnies very exact requested specs.
Amen.
Jay - a 9' Predator will run you between $350 and $400. depending on the extras.
Edited by Jsondag 5/20/2009 12:54 PM
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Thorne Bros. Predator XH and Steel 25 Review