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Posts: 203
Location: Alexandria, Minnesota | I have found some interesting input over the last few months from people, When it comes to the question of hiring a Muskie Guide. I was curious to get some input from you guys. What are you thoughts? | |
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Posts: 73
| For me it's primarily a time issue. When I've only got so much time to figure some things out---a lake that I'm driving a long way to get to, for example--- I don't mind hiring a guide that's familiar with that lake and can put me on some spots that could take several visits to figure out. On one lake in particular we hired the same guide three different times over a three year period before I felt that we had a good selection of spots to work out from.
Beyond that, not very lake fishes the same, and a knowledgeable (experienced) guide can recommend what lures work best, what time of day certain spots have been more active and so on.
I go Musky fishing to catch Musky. About every aspect of an outing is a financial expenditure, if you think about it. I consider the portion spent on a good guide to be money well-spent.
Edited by Jim Munday 5/17/2009 8:17 PM
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Posts: 1455
Location: Kronenwetter, WI | Hiring a good guide is an investment that will keep paying for a lifetime...think of all the money you spend that doesn't | |
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Posts: 203
Location: Alexandria, Minnesota | That is exactly why, I would think someone should hire a guide, Time and shortening the learning curve. Somethings that I have heard from people and I lost some business over them. 1. Can I keep the fish if I catch one? I personally don't allow fish to be kept. 2. Can you guarantee that I catch a Muskie. As most of you guys know. One day you can go out and catch 3,4,5,6,7 or 8 fish, But the following day the conditions change and you are lucky to catch one. Thats muskie fishing.
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| Any guide that claims he could GUARANTEE a Musky could probably walk on water too.  | |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | The main reason I do hire a guide: logistics. I'm not able to bring my boat. Nothing against guides but part of the fun is learning new water, and I get a lot more enjoyment out of a fish that I did the work for. Plus I can set my own hours and it takes me the better part of a week to earn $350. | |
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Posts: 172
| Cuttin the learning curve on bigger body of water. Will have a guide trip with ty sennett on chippy this fall. Can't wait! | |
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Posts: 1060
Location: Palm Coast, FL | Hawkeye - 5/18/2009 12:39 PM
Any guide that claims he could GUARANTEE a Musky could probably walk on water too. ;)
I don't walk on water, but certain times of the year...I do guarantee! To answer the following question you will ask of when?...December and January if we have open water. | |
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Posts: 78
| I for one hire a guide in years past because I did not own my own boat. I bought my first boat last year in August so not the case anymore. But besides the boat issue I also hire guides also maximize my vacation time to learn new waters and to learn different styles on how to fish so i could use what i learned. I find a guide a valuable tool as i do not fish everyday and free my time is limited. I have learned new skills such as trolling and fishing open water muskies and how to fish deeper fish effectively. So many reasons. I have a job that doesnt always allow me to fish more then a few times a month. Its like a on the water, hands on consulting service if you will. | |
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Posts: 8781
| 1. Don't have a boat
2. Don't have the money for a boat
3. Don't have a place to put a boat
It's a matter of necessity for me right now, but I probably always will hire certain guides from time to time, just for the knowledge and insight you can get from someone who has spent thousands of days on a given body of water. | |
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Posts: 90
Location: Ohio | I think a Guide would save a lot of time and work if on a Lake you know nothing about so with that being said, I would have no problem hiring a Guide. | |
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Posts: 132
Location: MN | Hiring a guide is a great way to learn water. Even after learning water, I hire some of the guides again because they have been good to me and I liked fishing with them. Depending on the guide, you can learn so much from the good ones you may be shocked at what they are really doing with clients vs. what you read on the net.
Overall, it gives me up to the day information on the bite and what needs to be done. Yes, it is fun to search out the new water and learn on your own, but when I can only fish for 3 days, by the time I really figure out the pattern well, I may be packing up to head back. Plus, what you learn can be replicated the following seasons as well.
I highly recommend using guides. It seems like a lot of money to some, but my personal time has a greater value and the $300-400 has big paybacks. | |
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Posts: 8781
| Hire the RIGHT guides. Some just take you fishing, which is fine. Others share what's going on out there right now, or show you specific spots. That's fine too. The best guides, in my experience, are the ones who you can hire in June and walk away better equipped to fish that area in September. The best guides are the ones who aren't concerned with numbers or sizes of fish as much as they are helping you become a better angler, no matter who you are or what level you are at. The best guides will give you insight you can take anywhere, to any body of water, at any time, and be better equipped to locate fish and catch them. | |
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Posts: 1220
| OK, let's say you have a week off, you're spending it all at the chain you always wanted to fish at the cabin you always wanted to rent and your dragging up the boat you always wanted to buy behind you with the top of the line rods and reels you spent way too much on. There is simply nothing better that you can do than to get the best guide on that chain to spend the first day of that trip with you (or a half day.) Learning what to fish, where to fish it and what speed and depth to present it will make your whole week for you. Spending the first three or four days eliminating crappy water and presentations will cost you more than any guide will charge. Even if I think I'm good enough to enter a tournament on water I know little about, I am absoulutely going to try to pre-fish with a guide whenever possible. To think you are better than the guy who makes his living fishing that water every single day is the height of conceit. Most of all, a good guide will be a totally fun time for you and if you can stand to close your mouth and open your ears--you'll walk away a better angler. Marty Forman | |
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Posts: 1887
Location: syracuse indiana | well i have actually wrote a little piece about this question.. i hope that you guy's like it.. i have sent it to a couple of magazine's and they have some interest in it.. anyway hopefully it will answer some questions.. and its all true......
REASONS TO HIRE A GUIDE
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Of the hundreds of reasons to hire a guide, the main reason should be to have a pleasant day on the water catching fish, and LEARNING how to catch fish. If you leave your guide without taking away some memories and techniques that you can use later, you’ve really missed out on what a good guide can offer, and didn’t really get your money’s worth.
Guiding is hard work and only the truly dedicated that love the outdoors and interacting with total strangers can make a living at it. It is a demanding job, that requires a lot of work behind the scenes to insure a productive day on the water. Anyone can get into a boat and throw out a lure, but difference is having the knowledge of that particular body of water and the species of fish that are being targeted. Only experience and hands on knowledge will give you the confidence that only years of fishing can produce.
A good guide lives to fish. They want to share their experiences with their customers. There is nothing more gratifying to me than watching someone catch that first “trophy” fish. The excitement they have is contagious and should never “get old” or routine for the guide.
A good guide will cherish new fisherman and will encourage you to bring your kids and spouses. A good guide will be patient and a good teacher. There is nothing like a child catching their first big fish on your boat. As a guide, you are part of that moment in their lives that they will remember forever. How many jobs can boast that comment?
Let your guide know what you like and don’t like. Not all guides fish the same. Some fish only with live bait, some only with artificial lures, and some do both. Find one that fits the type of fishing you will be doing on your own later.
Let your guide do the dirty work: Let him pay for the boat, insurance, gas, tackle and equipment. Let him get up at 2 in the morning and catch bait. Let him untangle the backlashes, and get the fish off the hooks. Let him worry about what the fish are biting on and where they are at today. Let him take your picture and get all the measurement for having a replica made of your beautiful trophy!
Some people have the misconception that guides “make a fortune” for what they charge for a fishing trip. Nothing could be further from the truth. The costs of maintaining a boat, fishing equipment, batteries, electronics, insurance, fuel and guide licenses can be staggering. Most guides do what they do because they love it, not to get rich!
Equipment:
Another big reason and probably the most common reason people hire guides, is the equipment needed to catch a particular fish. The definition of a boat is “a hole in the water you pour money into”. This is not far from the truth. Most people would not invest the money it takes to equip themselves unless they were truly “hooked” on fishing!
Also, most customers are shocked to learn what some of the equipment costs. The following is a small snapshot of what a typical guide has aboard his boat.
Rods and Reels-$150.00+ per each. Usually 8-12 rods per boat
G.P.S. -$350.00+
Depth Finder-$400.00+
Lures & terminal tackle $500.00-$1000.00
Batteries-$80.00-$100.00 each usually 2-3 per boat
Trolling motor-$500.00-$1200.00
Downriggers-$275.00 each(manual) $450.00 each(electric) Usually 2 to 4 downriggers per boat
Misc. (life vests, first aid kit, coolers, safety equip.)-$500.00
Unfortunately, As you can see, professional fishing does not come cheap! And the trouble is, none of this equipment lasts forever.
Find a guide that shares your interests and beliefs and you will find a friend forever. Remember, you are going to be stuck on a boat with a total stranger for up to 8 or more hours. It can be a very warm and fun time, or a strain on your patience. Find a guide you like and use him again and again.
We do it because we love it and it has always been our dream to share that perfect day, when the weather is perfect, the fish will bite anything you put in front of them, all the fish are monsters, and the clients truly love to catch fish and literally scream each time they catch a fish. That is why I guide.
Last but not least, your guide is not “Master of the Universe”. Unfortunately there are days when the “Fishing Gods” are not smiling, the fish have lockjaw, and you feel like you’re fishing in the Dead Sea. These days are few and far between, but unfortunately, they do happen. That’s why they call it fishing, not catching! Just remember, your guide is doing everything in his power to put fish in the boat for his customers. I would love for you to be a part of an upcoming trip. Call or E-mail me today.
Good Fishing!!
Bill Bennett
Musky Guide
Hoosier Heartland Guide Service
219-201-6123 or 574-457-3879
[email protected] | |
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Posts: 1887
Location: syracuse indiana | also junkman is right on the money.. i had a client out on thursday and he and his uncle placed 2nd in the hoosier classic this past weekend.. and to be kinda bad for them his uncle could not fish on friday so they were down to sat and sunday for fishing the tourny so whatever fish the client had caught on friday did not count and they would not let him prefish either , he had to fish his assigned lake, now thats impressive and it was a a awsome day on the water with him on thursday... WAY TO GO TODD(FISHCRAZED) AND MIKE....bill
Edited by archerynut36 5/18/2009 4:12 PM
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Posts: 661
Location: Roscoe IL | To learn the body of water, understand the best approach & lures for that particular body of water. Now when it come to hiring Frank Walsh, its all about the fun & laughter. I don't need to even cast to have one of the best times on the water. Same with Ty Sennett, Tanner Wildes or Tony Grant. I hire them to spend a day on the water laughing & having a good time with people that enjoy what they do. No fish no problem, I always have the best time with any one of these guides / people. We generally do just fine & slime the boat, but its not the only reason I choose to hire them for a day or 2. I will hire each one again & again until they retire. | |
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Posts: 264
| ya for me it would be to learn new techniques and areas/lakes so i could make my time on the water more productive. | |
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Posts: 203
Location: Alexandria, Minnesota | I am really glad to hear that most of you guys are pro guide. I have a lot of new clients this year and most of them are new to Muskie fishing. I am really excited to get them on the water and teach them somethings that have worked for me over the years. I always find it more exciting to catch someone new to the sport their first muskie. I think I get more excited then they do.
Thanks again for your input guys. | |
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Location: Oswego, IL | I hired a guide the first time on LOTW and wouldnt hire the same one ever again, and I am not going to rip out the name here either. BUT I will tell you, It was my first trip for Muskie and here is my issue's after reading more about a guide.
******I JUST WANT TO SAY THIS IS ALL MY OPINION******
1. He sat in the front of the boat the entire fishing time
2. Didnt tell either of us to speed up, slow down retrieve, switch baits, etc......
3. Went home early, well 4 ish, early - wouldnt you think you would stay out long as long as possible to boat a fish? I would if I was paid
4. No fish boated - well no muskie, one big pike - my friend had - I had a huge pike and he dropped it -hand landing sucked. I was pissed because my only big fish, a "pro" lost it, I CPR fish everything i am not going to eat
5. $350 PLUS GAS - as we found out when bringing us back
So, my reasons now, not to hire, is because of him. Hey LOTW how the crap can you not have a client land a fish? So, the last 5 days we were there, without him, landed fish. Now with the years of knowledge I have from fishing, and reading, watching, and peoples info on these website, I feel very confident in catching plenty, weather permitted almost anywhere.
My suggestions to a guide.
1. Dont hog the front of the boat to sit on your arse - not saying you do, just dont.
2. teach someone new something
3. Be nice, funny, curtious
4. If you see the client stugle to catch a fish chime in, basically your a hired teacher
5. Dont time your day, someone just paid close to some peoples half-full week pay (after taxes) if your a 9-5 guy you may not get to many referrals - referrals in my business and any business are the best advertising MONEY CANT PAY FOR! - this is big if the fishing is SLOW, or NONE. Let the sun tell you when your done if your having a bad day dont give up
6. List all your Total fee's or tell them, last thing someone wants is to be surprised, and you probably wont get tipped.
As you can see i guess i am a bit salty still because of that. I know not all guides are the same, and I know there are awsome ones, and I got ###### so i am not ripping on anyone, just blowing steam at this one in particular. But the title was "why or why not" so that is my answer.
Would I hire a guide again, sure, a referral only though. I wouldnt hire out of a phone book, or any advertising.
Actually I may hire the same one again and go with a GPS in my pocket and mark all his spots and beat him here every day after.
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Posts: 1887
Location: syracuse indiana | well whored, we are not all alike.. i stay in the back.. my clients get the whole front of the boat.. i do teach everything i can to them.. most guys that already fish for musky already know what to do and how to use baits.. but i alway make it a point to teach all the little things that can be that edge that they need to help them catch more fish.. and i try my darndest to make sure they have a great day out on the water.. it has to be fun and a good learning exspeirence.. i hope you dont look at all us guides bad becouse of what that guide did.. your right. they should not be sitting on their butt and treating you bad.. i dont even like when my phone rings.. most of the time i wont answer it unless it home and its a emergancy.....bill | |
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Posts: 335
Location: Minnesota | I have never hired a guide and don't see myself hiring a guide anytime soon. Not because I don't like guides - just because I don't want to spend the money.
For the price of a good guide for one day I could do another 5 day trip to Canada. I know that there are times when a guide would mean more fish but for me it is all about the experience. I think that new waters are fun to explore, fun to learn about, fun to have success on your own.
My opinion is as long as I am still having fun and catching some fish, I don't need to spend that kind of money on a guide.
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Posts: 203
Location: Alexandria, Minnesota | I have seen a lot of input from guys that say they like learning new lakes on their own. I agree with that too, but there are quite a few people that muskie fish that don't know how to dissect a lake properly. I am not claiming to be an expert. But I see it all the time,I watch guys working a piece of structure and I am just scratching my head. I think of the things that I have learned from some of the great fishermen I have had an oppurtunity to fish with is , Boat control, seasonal movements, and Lure selections and presentations.
What I do agree with is . I agree you paying the guide to teach you new things that will make you a better fisherman, and You should always get the front of the boat. I personally don't even fish if there are two guys in the boat. I just help clients out here and there with casting techniques and lure presentation. | |
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| Muskiewhored...it sounds like you probably got a guy who was an exception to the rule on what to expect from a guide, and that's unfortunate. But it's also a good example of why to do some research before hiring a guy. Usually those who are a 'good deal' will have a reputation for it.
But, while I wouldn't expect a guide to give me less than 8 hours when I hire him for a full day, I wouldn't expect him to fish until the sun goes down either-- regardless of the bite. It's a business, and the standard time for a full day is 8 hours. I expect to buy the guide lunch (or share a packed lunch), but I've never heard of buying the gas. Sorry you had a bad time, dude.
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Location: Oswego, IL | Lets make it clear, I did get a bad apple. I do not think all guides are like that. I know for sure most guides are great, they fish for a living and some grew up on the lake. I do also know to do more research... now.....but lack of knowledge on guides, and this one was picked out by our resort didnt think I would have an issue. I know it is MY fault, well 60% my fault I ended up with this one, but hey, now I know. Again I am not ripping on guides I think what you/they do is awsome, and crap I would love to do the same thing someday. Like I said in my last post, I will not hire one again unless they are referred by certain people, thats where I sit on this topic. I also will go back to the time thing, personally guys who watch the clock, will not be in my liking, because what I have found is guys who will actually tell you, "you can expect to be out until its dark", so that I see as commitment. The ones who are timers, obviously are doing it all for the $$$-- not to share the "experience" with other anglers. My opinion..
to be honest, yes the guide sucked, but being half wise, I also knew where he took us on a few spots, got home and marked it on my map, so I guess I did get something out of him...little did he know.
Oh lastly, one big reason to hire a guide ---- if the lake is huge most rental boats dont have the HP to get you around fast enough, therfore cuts the time your baits are wet. I bet you would save a good 2 hours or more in just travel time.
Bill I like your thoughts, I am in Chicago, maybe sometime I will look you up, I never fished Indiana yet. | |
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Posts: 49
| one reason i wouldn't hire a guide is to catch 30 inch muskies, guarantee or not.
i would hire a guide to put me on bigger fish, 45"+ , not necessarily to catch one but to see one or two works for me
different strokes for different folks i guess?
Edited by claud_bahls 5/19/2009 3:14 PM
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Posts: 485
Location: On my favorite lake! | I have never hired a guide but I am not opposed to it.
Reasons why I haven't.
Cost
Like finding the fish myself , so I can learn
Don't know what I'd be getting in most cases.
I have always felt I did well on my own.
Would rather spend money on a couple days extra fishing .
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Posts: 742
Location: Grand Rapids MN | As everyone has stated that there are many reasons or situations to hire a guide. If I was making a big trip to a lake I am not really familiar with I would hire one for the first day of the trip. This can help you get up to speed on what has been happing on the lake as of late. Most guides network so throughout the day you get info from other guides trying different areas/techniques. Guides definitely try hard to put you on fish the rest is up to client. You could easily spend the same amount in gas and a few days of your trip trying to figure out a pattern. | |
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Posts: 743
| I do but for a little different reasons. My last several trips to Canada have been with my daughter. I either fish with her or I go out alone. After several days of that I'm ready for some guy talk. there's a good guide there that I just hire for 2 or 3 evenings when I'm up there. His rates are very reasonable for evenings,usually we fish from 5 til about 10. It's well worth it.
I also hired guides at Eagle. I took my first trip to AML last year with my dad. I didn't want to take the time to learn it. Herbie's guides put you on fish. I didn't want to waste any time trying to figure it out myself. I wanted to see one of the pigs Eagle is known for. Saw more fish over 50 than in all my years fishing my other place. Biggest was 54. If I was on my own all week I would have never ventured that far out to the hot part of the lake. First time out on a lake that size with all its hazards is a little too adventurous for me. Fishing around Herbie's part of the lake by myself was enough for my first time there but that wasn't the hot area when I was there.
Edited by KSauers 5/21/2009 8:36 PM
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| I have never hired one and never will. There is something about figuring it out yourself that makes the reward that much better. Let's be honest...it is not that difficult to figure out what fish are doing. You try weed edges, you fish rocks, you fish breaklines, you try the basin, ect...you can start eliminating water and patterning fish over a couple hour time frame. To spend $300+ seems nuts to me. With current technologies and word of mouth (sites like this) you can pretty much figure out what to look for before you show up to a new body of water. It might be a comfort thing for some guys...but for me there is nothing better then figuring it out yourself...I think that is half the fun. In addition, there are too many guides out there that are still relatively new to the game and going thru the same elimination/patterning process I was talking about before when you get on the water with them. If I were to ever hire a guide, I would expect them to put me on fish. I can see the "rookie" finding value in an experienced guide for tackle lesson and maybe boat control but for someone who has been fishing for years....well....
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Posts: 1184
Location: Iowa Great Lakes | If I wan't to just get away for a weekend and run up to try an area like Daves in, I have 2 options. #1 run and gun, try all the spots that look good for a few casts each keeping moving hoping to hit a spot. I have a weekend, figuring in drive times I have 20 hours fishing time tops to learn a lake, cast spots, go through baits hoping to find the right one. Realisticly I spent those 20 hours casting in vain.
Option #2 hire a guide fish those 20 hours and have a guy in the boat thats in tune with the lake and fish movements and bait choices, realisticly boat a fish or maybe 3-4.
Now to me that is $300 well spent. And if I can swing it I'll be in Daves boat sometime this year, as it will be my first guided trip I'll save my guide opinions till then, but haveing met Dave, I think I'll be pleased. I know it will be fun if nothing else and thats all that matters, catching fish is a bonus. | |
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Just curious, Why or why not would you guys hire a muskie guide