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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | My 200 VMAX seized on me Sunday night, and long story short, I just wanna repower. I'm thinking of making the switch to a four stroke Yamaha 225. I know all about it weighing more and costing more, and that's fine. I talk to bass boat guys, and it's all, "get the HPDI!!!!" I talk to the saltwater guys and they like the four strokes. Ranger is putting more and more four stroke Yamahas on their muskie and bay boats, so I'm looking for input from anyone that has one. Or one on any other boat for that matter. Ever notice a difference or miss the two stroke lifestyle? |
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Posts: 344
Location: Musky Country | I'am running a 250 yamaha 4stroke on my 620 and love it
Not the best hole shot or the fastest but I'm not out there to win speed trophys
Quiet Strong running motor not bad on the gas either.
As far as speed last year the fastest I had it was 60 gps speed
took some time playing with the hydrolic jack plate Though.
The thing I really like is how quiet it is I can talk with out yelling when the motors running. I was in brad hoppe's boat last year, he has the merc pro xs and man that was LOUD. So all in all I like my Quiet.
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Location: Green Bay, WI | I have never owned a Ranger. But I have owned Honda, Yamaha and now Mercury (Verado) 4-strokes. Here's what I think after owning all of them, although I don't have any experience with Suzuki, but wouldn't hesitate to try them at all.
1) Yamaha. The weakest of the bunch. My F150 started very hard, and was somewhat of a dog. This would be my third choice of the three I've owned. However it ran very smoothly, and never hinted that it wouldn't go the distance. When I lived in Florida a few years ago, Yamaha 4-strokes outnumbered other 4-stroke engines probably 10:1. I was simply underwhelmed with my engine's performance at times.
2) Honda. Sweet engine. Started immediately, ran ultra-smooth. Mine was a non-VTEC 200 horse, and I would buy another without hesitation. I would like to compare them to Suzuki, as many tell me the Suzi's run every bit as well but have more torque due to gear ratios. In many ways, Honda has now become last in the 4-stroke department--they haven't done much to offer new products in almost 8-9 years. But it's hard to argue with the success of a few million miles in autos...and if I absolutely had to have an engine I could trust my life with, it would be a Honda.
3) Verado. WOW...What an engine! Torque for days, smooth, quiet, fuel-efficient. My current 150 runs as well as the Honda 130 & 200 engines I've had, but has 2-stroke torque. It's unbelievable, especially with the DTS (digital throttle & steering). The larger 6-cylinder engines are all power steering, which might cause you an issue if you plan to troll though--the kicker's alternator usually isn't powerful enough to recharge the battery while powering the power steering unit. There are kits available apparently, but they are problematic from what my dealer tells me. If I were to go with a 6-cylinder (225, 250, 275, 300 or 350) Verado, I would definitely go with a larger kicker. The new Mercury 15hp Pro-Kicker has a 11-amp (edit) alternator, and I bet this would be adequate--but I've not talked to anyone who has tried it yet. But the Verado has only been out 4-5 years now, and there are still skeptics out there. However mine impresses me more & more, each time I run it.
That all being said, it would be a TOUGH call as to what engine I would choose, if I was ordering a boat. I have a friend with an F250 Yamaha on a Skeeter and he loves it. I have driven it, and it seems to be much more snappy than my F150 was. So you might be better off with a Yamaha, simply because of your current rigging. I should add that Yamaha makes some VERY nice digital gauges, that won't kill your pocket-book. Their digital fuel flow gauge is invaluable and will pay for itself in 1-2 years, if you learn how to use it.
But I really don't think you can go wrong with any of the 4-strokes in today's market. You do have to research the pro's & con's of each though, and decide what's best for you. If your boat dealer has Yamaha and has given you good service, you might be hard-pressed to go with any other motor. In my case my dealer is outstanding, so it'd probably be Mercury or Honda for me, just to be able to continue to have the work done there. If I was to ever repower my current boat, I might like to try a Suzi--just because I haven't had one yet, and I hear nothing but good things about them...
Good luck!
TB
Edited by tcbetka 5/5/2009 10:48 PM
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Thanks guys. It'll be a Yamaha for sure. I was actually thinking mostly about the additional weight of the four stroke, but I remembered all the guys running kickers on 620's and the weight they add. I don't have a kicker, so I'll still be well under the "doable" weight on the back of a 620. I'm pretty much sold on a 225 four stroke Yammie. I'm going to call Yamaha tomorrow and see what they can do for me, so short of them sending me a new powerhead for my OX66 to make things all better, I'll be repowering with a F225.
And yeah, I'll look into the fuel flow gauge. I've got the other's, but not the fuel flow. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | If hole shot isn't the most important thing to you, then I think you'll be very happy with a 225 Yamaha. The guys over at The Hull Truth forum have talked very favorably about the bigger Yammies. I wouldn't think that the weight would be that much of an issue for you--certainly the Ranger can handle it, given what I've seen hanging on the transom of some of them around here!
TB |
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| Sorry to hear about your motor issue. If you dont mind could you tell me how this happened as far as what you were doing when it went. Was it an HPDI. Thanks. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | I was on plane, cruising along at the end of my fishing day and the motor gave up the fight. From plane to off plane, to sudden stoppage was about four seconds. No alarms, no warnings.
It was an OX66, which is largely the same as the HPDI outside of fuel delivery.
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | That grey, crumbly stuff you see is what used to be the piston...... |
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Posts: 344
Location: Musky Country | Ouch!!!!
Good luck in the future. |
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| That just completely sucks. I'll be watching ur stuff on BBC. Good luckwhat ever you do |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Thhaaatttsss gonna leave a mark. Ouch.
Time for a new engine, I hope.
TB |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | 4amuskie - 5/6/2009 10:30 AM
That just completely sucks. I'll be watching ur stuff on BBC. Good luckwhat ever you do
Do you mean my parting it out? Are you interested in anything in particular?
But yeah, I've currently got two threads at BBC going....
Edited by esoxfly 5/6/2009 1:40 PM
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| No but if I hear anyone I know where to find you. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Gotcha. Looks like I already have the ECU sold and I haven't even posted it for sale yet! |
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Posts: 406
Location: Stones throw away...finally!! | Curious as I have the exact same motor...ever come up with a cause? Oil, oil pressure, other... |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Not entirely sure. Seeing as it's the top cylinder, and those get the hottest, I think I may have had a warped or even cracked (it looks OK to the naked eye, but the smallest crack can ruin a motor) head and got water on top of the piston and away it went. I got water out on the screws when I pulled the head, so there was water floating around under the head. Whether that came before, or was caused by the failure, I don't know. That cylinder is bone dry, so either the oil washed out with the water, or I also had a clogged injector and that cylinder ran dry. I think I may have had an oil injection issue as my reservoirs don't seem to have dropped appreciably in the two days I had it out this year. That was the first thing I noticed was my oil level didn't seem like it had dropped.
Oh well, I'm calling the bank today for the $$$$ I need for a new F225!
You need any parts? Seriously, I'm parting it out, and there's alot of good stuff on there- lower unit, tilt/trim, starter, wiring harness.... |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Congrats on ordering (presumably) the new F225! I talked to my friend--he has the F225, not the F250. But I just talked to him today and he loves it on his big Skeeter, and he does not think the hole shot suffers with that engine. He had an HPDI before this, on a different hull, but believe he prefers the F225.
So you should be good to go with the new engine...
TB |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Yep, Brad Davis, a Skeeter pro here at the FLW Walleye Tour in red Wing, MN, talked about his 225 on a Skeeter yesterday. He downsized this year, and really likes the engine. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Yeah Tom, the F225 four stroke. Looking forward to it. All the saltwater guys love 'em, and even some of the bass boat guys at BBC recommend it for my uses.
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Posts: 18
| Jeff,for the little I've run my 620 with the yamaha 250 four stroke I can't brag any more than I have.The hole shot is great,it is so quite its spooky.I don't think you could go wrong with the f225.
Bob G. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Make sure they throw in a Fuel Flow gauge, lol!
With the economy what it is now, they should be willing to make a new engine worth your while--especially since you aren't buying it on a hull. The least they could do is throw in the FF...
TB
Edited by tcbetka 5/10/2009 5:16 PM
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | bob690 - 5/10/2009 5:58 PM
Jeff,for the little I've run my 620 with the yamaha 250 four stroke I can't brag any more than I have.The hole shot is great,it is so quite its spooky.I don't think you could go wrong with the f225.
Bob G.
Ah heck Bob, I didkn't know you had a four strok Yammie. I know Ranger is using them now, but didn't know you had one. Glad you like it. What kind of speed are you getting with it? |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | tcbetka - 5/10/2009 6:15 PM
Make sure they throw in a Fuel Flow gauge, lol!
With the economy what it is now, they should be willing to make a new engine worth your while--especially since you aren't buying it on a hull. The least they could do is throw in the FF...
TB
We'll see. I'm already getting a heckuva deal as it is.
Edited by esoxfly 5/12/2009 10:28 AM
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Location: Green Bay, WI | That's a pretty good price, as I remember. I think I paid like $10K a few years ago for an F150, on a hull. I think the gauge cost me about $450 or so, installed. That was in 2004 however, so I have no idea of what it cost today.
But you'll be shocked to see the difference in fuel flow with only a difference of 2-300 RPM. It will be in the *gallons* per hour difference, and the speed won't really change too much. At $2.25 per gallon, you'll pay for that FF gauge in only a couple years.
TB |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Agreed. I've read alot of guys recommending ff gauges. I think I'll give it a shot. |
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Posts: 99
| http://www.bwbmag.com/output.cfm?ID=1122463 |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Nice article... I was a bit surprised to see that the Verado did so poorly in the fuel economy department. I know that it's thirsty, given the supercharger. But I find that by the using the SmartCraft FF gauge, I can get a very respectable fuel flow out of my 150--I think every bit as good as the Yamaha F150 I used to own. But at (or close to) WOT, the thing is absolutely parched and guzzles fuel like an F-15 at full afterburner. But I can almost count on one hand the number of times I have been able to run at WOT on Green Bay, and it seems that the the 4000-4500 RPM range seems to be where I find myself running about 25mph most of the time. So fuel flow out there really hasn't been much of an issue, and on the troll I am able to see FF's of 0.6gph.
But I was also surprised to see just how well they thought that Suzuki did. I've always heard great things about those engines, but don't recall seeing the numbers like this. If I ever buy another boat (or repower this one), the Suzuki will indeed get a very serious look.
Thanks for posting the link!
TB
Edited by tcbetka 5/11/2009 6:57 AM
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Posts: 99
| I believe the new Verados they have reampped the fuel system for a substacial fuel mileage increase over the initial Verado |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Moreyes is right, things have changed within the last year on the Verado.
http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/outboards/verado/fuel_improvem... |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Yes they did, and I should have mentioned that...thanks for bringing it up. Mercury is advertising that indeed the "Gen 2" Verado engines get some dramatically better fuel economy--up to about 22% better, if memory serves. But this is apparently only significant at the higher power settings, like about 4000-4500 RPM.
I don't think the Gen-2 engines came out until 2007 however, so the Verado they reported on in that test would likely have been a Gen-1, so (to your point) the test results would likely have been a bit different now.
Thanks again for bringing that up, because Mercury has indeed made the engine better.
TB |
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Posts: 99
| I need spell chek I cee |
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Posts: 264
| I have a evinrude e-tec 225 on my 619and i love it. Do some reseach on them. There a great choice. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | I've already got Yammie gauges, rigging and wiring, so I'll be sticking with them. I'm sure the ETec are fine motors but it's Yammie for me. |
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| Does your new motor come with the book "How to trim your boat 101" ???
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Is that a joke? |
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Posts: 18
| Jeff, still not broke in yet so I can't tell you any speeds yet.Was going to get it out Monday,but ended up with up with this Michigan allergies, sore throat and double ear infection. I'm hoping to get out by Friday or Saturday.Our season is coming up on St. Clair thank God.
Bob G. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Good God man, how long is break-in? I guess I'll be finding out soon enough.... |
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Posts: 169
Location: Houlton, WI | i run a 225 etec on my 619 and i love it. It is a perfect motor to go along with a great boat |
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Posts: 18
| Jeff,I had two motors to break in.Did not get the new boat until middle of Oct.about the time the weather got windy,rainy,and was turning cold last fall.And then there is that work thing.Also family thing.Man this is starting to sound like a excuse thing.Man I can't wait to get out.Sorry to here about your motor,maybe it was not broke in correctly,take your time and brake it in the way they tell you in the manual,with all the electronics in that motor I think it shows them how it has been ran and so on.Just my opinion.Good luck.
Bob G.
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Yeah you can pull the numbers off and it'll tell you max rpm, most common rpm range and that sort of thing. I think I may actually take advantage of the required break in and do my own survey of Anchor Bay. If I have to run at idle and then high speed, I'll make a nice slow pass, mark the bottom, then run to the top of the next pass. My GPS screen will look like a checker board. I'm ordering it tomorrow, so maybe (maybe I say) here next week, and maybe (again maybe) installed by Memorial Day week. |
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