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Posts: 1769
Location: Algonquin, ILL | Saw this in a local paper this morning, This garbage is being spewed forth by a teacher
http://www.nwherald.com/articles/2009/04/28/r_qc3zqltotde7nqe796mmb...
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Wow...
While I agree with one point he made (that humans tend to de-value life more and more), I think he's sensationalizing the issue just a little bit.
I hope he never takes a tour of a slaughterhouse.
TB
EDIT: Wow, again...if you read some of the "comments" section, it seems as though Mr. Warwak isn't too well-liked. And if some of the comments are accurate, he might have had a few problems as a teacher--some apparently related to his beliefs on such matters.
Edited by tcbetka 5/1/2009 7:31 AM
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Posts: 1769
Location: Algonquin, ILL | He actually said "Fishing desensitizes children and instills disrespect for life."
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Well, I was referring to this sentence:
"Adopting an apathetic attitude toward animal life only opens the door to an inconsequential attitude toward human life."
TB |
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Posts: 692
Location: Pelican Rapids, MN | What a buffoon. He probably wasn't booking too many clients over his 30 years with that mindset. |
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Posts: 135
| Probably one of my favorite quotes of all time:
""There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot." --Steven Wright"
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Must be a theme today, a similar thread started on WalleyeFIRST this morning.
I make no apologies or excuses, I hunt and fish, and I do harvest game and fish to eat. My children grew up hunting and fishing, too. Once I ate a bunch of oats. I guess I'm a cereal killer.
Cheerio! |
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Posts: 477
Location: Iowa | This guys is trying to gain recognition. Didn't work as a guide so now he's going to the other side, and look, now he's getting his attention on MuskieFirst too. |
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Location: SE Wisconsin | .
Edited by Sam Ubl 5/1/2009 11:49 AM
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Well, the best way to combat these guys is to do something about it. Last year I held a "fishing day" for my daughters preschool. Next week I'm doing it for the entire Excelsior Elementary kindergarten (I don't think I know what I've gotten myself into  ).
Take your kids, nieces, nephew, neighbors, friends kids, etc out fishing! These kids are our future, not some inner city kid who's never picked up a rod before. Get our own fishing. You'll also find that it's very easy to get a "kitchen pass" when you're taking the little ones out. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Well, call me PETA I guess...but I agree with the guy to some degree: I believe that an apathetic attitude towards animals DOES devalue life. And in all honesty, I strongly believe that the whole C&R philosophy is one of the *best* ways (edit) to teach the Little Johnnies and Little Suzies of the world, about the value of these resources.
For the most (and as far as I know many of the MF folks), the people posting on this forum are "sportsmen." I think by and large, that people on *most* of the internet musky forums are indeed sportsmen--they understand the finite nature of the resource, and can appreciate how hard this resource is to maintain. And I think that's great. But we all know the meat-hunter mentality that some have adopted, as it has been discussed on this forum many times.
My point is that I have absolutely no issue with someone hunting or fishing, with the intent of harvesting animals--as long as it's done as humanely as possible, and with respect to the animal. As an example, people that grab their rifle on opening morning without having taken time to fire more than 1-2 rounds before season, are simply just waiting for an opportunity to needlessly maim an animal. Am I being overly sensitive or a "bleeding heart?" Who cares--I don't... If you are going to go and harvest an animal, then in my opinion you owe it to the animal to dispatch it as quickly and painlessly as is possible. Period.
As pointed out previously, killing and eating animals is a part of human life. While it is true that we can replace with synthetic products, the essential amino acids found in animal protein, most humans do not choose to adopt the strictest of vegetarian lifestyles. I don't, and I don't expect others to--unless they so choose. But it doesn't mean that we have to disrespect the animals we are harvesting, and for the most part, I don't see that happening with the vast majority of anglers/hunters/sportsmen on the water or in the fields in today's world. But I do agree that there simply has been a devaluation of life (in general) over the past 40-50 years. It's all over the news--20 killed here, 50 killed there... It doesn't even phase most people anymore, unless you lose a loved-one. And that, quite frankly, scares the hell out of me!
I will step off the soapbox now...sorry for the rant.
TB
Edited by tcbetka 5/1/2009 9:23 AM
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Location: SE Wisconsin | True that valuing our resources is THE main component of living the outdoorsmen's life, it's the main ingredient to making memories that the accomplished can look back on and highly regard. Quite the opposite, those who devalue nature and everything relative (snaggers, poachers, thrill-killers, overharvesters, those who have stolen game and bragged of an elaborated BS story on how they "harvested" it, etc.) are those who we as true sportsmen seperate ourselves and our sportsmens society from. Dave Warwak is a generalizing man who writes on behalf of almost all things obvious. Those children who have been taught to devalue natures resources may suffer in harmful ways, both within their minds and protruded onto others, but while their negative actions become well known, their numbers are few. This guy generalizes the whole public by relating interaction with the outdoors to all things negative and severe... And as a fishing guide of 30 years, it's hypocrisy.
Edited by Sam Ubl 5/1/2009 9:23 AM
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Well put, Sam.
I should have reiterated in my last post, that I feel Mr. Warwak has exaggerated this significantly--almost to the point of sensationalism.
TB |
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Posts: 909
| THE DUDES A WHACK JOB! STARVING FOR ATTENTION!
BRIAN |
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Location: SE Wisconsin | .
Edited by Sam Ubl 5/1/2009 11:49 AM
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Posts: 8782
| So wait a second, it was ok for this guy to guide for 30 years, impaling and and torturing fish for profit, but now fishing is bad? Yeah whatever dude, I'll believe you when I see you giving all the money you made guiding for 30 years to charity. And if he thinks what we do is bad? Just look at what those poor helpless fishies do to each other:
Attachments
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 sucker.jpg (98KB - 76 downloads)
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| i just wasted 2 minutes of my life looking at the video link. i would like to know what he feeds his dog, i bet its not carrots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | muskie24/7 - 5/1/2009 9:26 AM
THE DUDES A WHACK JOB! STARVING FOR ATTENTION!
BRIAN ;-)
And getting it. |
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Posts: 2378
| tcbetka - 5/1/2009 7:35 AM Well, I was referring to this sentence: "Adopting an apathetic attitude toward animal life only opens the door to an inconsequential attitude toward human life." TB I believe this is a very true statement. A good chunk of serial killers have a past of animal torture. Fishing and hunting is very different than showing an apathetic attitude toward animal life, though
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Posts: 275
| Treats has the right idea.
This May is the third May I am sponsoring an afternoon fishing tournament for my students. I have kids talk to to me about fishing during lunch the whole school year. In fact, some students, who struggle with getting their homework in on time, already have the signed parent permission slips turned in. It is one of my
favorite events each year! Talk about building a sense of community, well this surely does.
Tom
Edited by MuskyFlyGuy 5/1/2009 3:31 PM
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Posts: 444
| I'll stop eating meat when the Lions stops hunting the antelope. |
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| Years ago I was the President of a local Bass fishing organization and we had a similar issue come up. C&R was really beginning to take hold in the Bass circles back at that time, and there was a PETA demonstration at a boat launch against fishing altogether. The 2 representatives from PETA were the only people who showed up, as even PETA members thought it was a ridiculous cause to protest fishing. I remember reading an excerpt from an article written by a Stanford scientist that proved fish did NOT feel pain from being hooked. The act itself may have been stressful, but as far as pain was concerned he mentioned details backing up his point. It made perfect sense at the time, but since that was in the early 90's, I can't recall anymore about the article than that. I wish I had a copy of that info today. Has anyone else ever heard this? Maybe Tom knows a bit about it, as I think he and a couple others that come here have degrees dealing with this. Later. |
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Posts: 8782
| Brad, I remember reading that article, something about the lack of nerve endings in their mouth preventing pain from even being a possibility, or something like that??
I'll see if I can dig it up |
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Posts: 580
| Brad:
I know that In-Fisherman published a lengthy article about the topic of whether fish can actually feel pain. I think this was within the past 10 years or so. As I recall, it was a well-researched, science-based article which reached the conclusions you suggest.
Pretty sure that I've got the issue that the article was in, maybe I'll try to dig that up. |
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Posts: 8782
| http://cotrout.org/do_fish_feel_pain.htm |
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| Thanks Esoxaddict, that was very interesting reading. Not the same article as I read before, but it backs up my point. I didn't read any of the article the initial poster mentioned, but I might go back and do that now. People need to be educated sometimes. Later, and good fishing to you all. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Actually, Steve Worrall has referenced that study on this forum in the past. I will try to find it tonight after dinner. But here is another reference I found by Googling "do fish feel pain?" This link seems to reference some evidence that they do feel pain, but I haven't read it (and the resources linked in it) thoroughly yet though.
http://www.firstscience.com/home/perspectives/editorials/do-fish-fe...
I have to prepare (edit) some musky-related arguments for the CC delegate meeting next week, but will try to read more about this issue over the weekend. I personally have always believed that, to some degree, fish *do* feel noxious stimuli. However I haven't spent enough time researching it to know the literature, so I really can't argue it one way or the other...yet.
TB
Edited by tcbetka 5/1/2009 10:49 PM
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Posts: 223
Location: Minn. | That was very interesting reading. What is scary is that I actually understood everything Dr. James D. Rose said. Very well written. |
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Posts: 1455
Location: Kronenwetter, WI | Animals taste good. On my sub?...Animals! On my bun?...Animals! On my pizza?...Animals! |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Cowboyhannah - 5/1/2009 9:26 PM
Animals taste good. On my sub?...Animals! On my bun?...Animals! On my pizza?...Animals!
Couldn't have said it any better! |
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| Baldy has it right. Hunting and fishing sportsmen are a far cry from what the guy is describing. Of course there are bad apples in every group, but for the most part, those that participate on more than just a weekend warrior level in either of the two greatest pastimes are generally well balanced (well, maybe not), well behaved, law-abiding and just plain good folks. I've never met a guy who was really into fair chase hunting or fishing that was a bad guy. I'm sure there are some, but my guess would be a lot less than other groups of people. I think it has to do with an appreciation for nature, etc. |
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Posts: 55
| i believe it was ted nugent that said, "meat is food". some fish or venison or other tasty animals in the freezer is cool as long as it isn't wasted. sometimes people should keep their opinions to themselves, but this is mine. |
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Posts: 55
| well said Propster! |
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