Posted 4/5/2009 1:19 PM (#370356 - in reply to #370337) Subject: RE: Boga Grips
Location: Green Bay, WI
Good question. I've never used one on a musky, but I have on other fish (bass) and have seen a couple people use them on muskies...
I would never lift a musky vertically, using a Boga-grip (or a hand-grip, if I could help it in any way). While a hand-hold still concentrates the weight of the fish on their spine, the Boga would further concentrate all of that weight at the point of contact. Torn jaw tissue is not going to do the fish any favors down the road--and may even contribute to post-angling mortality...something we are working hard to prevent.
That being said, the way I've seen people use the Boga is to secure the fish in the water with it, in a horizontal position. But I have two large nets and a cradle, so I really don't feel that I need it. But I can certainly understand people wanting to use one to secure the fish's head while they were attempting to unhook it. We released a 53+" fish on Green Bay a couple years ago, and she was quite difficult to steer while in the net. Maybe a Boga would have been just the ticket--but I would never use it to lift a heavy fish, for the reasons mentioned.
Posted 4/5/2009 2:23 PM (#370374 - in reply to #370337) Subject: Re: Boga Grips
Location: Illinois
Thanks Tom. Interesting to note that using them while a fish is in the net helps some control the fish while unhooking.
I was surprised to see a team from the PMTT use one. It almost seems unethical. Maybe the anglers should know better- and maybe the PMTT should have made a rule against using them to lift a fish from the net?
I don't wish to cast stones. I and probably lots of others on this board have had instances where we weren't perfectly holding the musky. But to include a photo of a fish held out of the net with a boga grip seems un-thought-out by Mr. Stella- a man whom I've never met- but nevertheless have a great amount of respect for due to his reputation in Midwest musky circles. I want to commend him for the speedy updates from Cave Run and wish him luck with the PMTT. And I can't say He's to blame at all, after all, I and everyone else enjoy looking at that Cave Run hawg as we sit at home in front of our computer screens.
I just want to learn it all. I come here, like many others that are still a "'lil' green behind the ears", to soak up info like a sponge. I was confused to see a "pro' holding a musky in a way that seemed harmful to the fish. (I) Wanted to begin a discussion and learn peoples opinions on the matter while avoiding a witch hunt of sorts.
So, again, no problem if this team (or another poster) shares a different view on musky holds and the use of a boga grip. To each their own! I just hope to get a cross-section of thoughts from the forum community on boga grips and musky. Maybe someone new to the sport lurking and reading this will learn something about musky holds that will help them down the line.
Not bashing the PMTT, I commend them for running tourneys that generally leave No Trace Behind. Maybe they and others (MAC, IMTT, IMTT, WMT) could discuss instituting a ban on boga-lifts, so to speak, in their tourneys.
Perhaps posting that pic was the best thing after all, as long as we can have a respectful discussion concerning the merits of the boga grip and musky, and musky tournament trail's responsibility to allow them or ban their use on an out of the water musky.
Thanks. If you want to go anti-boga, just keep it relatively calm. Noone is perfect, and we all can learn something! Plus I'd love to hear from people who are pro-boga also. We can't all agree, but maybe we can learn something from the discussion!
lambeau
Posted 4/5/2009 4:05 PM (#370386 - in reply to #370337) Subject: Re: Boga Grips
please note: i added that picture to Mr. Stella's tournament report post. i got it off the PMTT website as i thought it was worth showing off a fish of that size caught during the tournament.
not everyone is comfortable handling fish with their bare hands, and paying a full trail fee for a tournament series doesn't necessarily mean that someone is experienced doing so. most of the teams probably are, but really it just means they ponied up to fish 4 tournaments.
if the boga grip increases a person's confidence in handling a fish (compared to using their hand) and therefore they're less likely to drop the fish...then the boga's pinch to the underside of the mouth might actually mean they're less likely to harm the fish.
i too would prefer to see nice supported horizontal holds that don't stress the jaw either, but for some people assistance tools might be the right answer.
Posted 4/5/2009 4:54 PM (#370395 - in reply to #370337) Subject: Re: Boga Grips
Posts: 999
How many of you guy use the boga grip as an "assist" during hook removal/cutting? I seen it used on the new DVD "Solar Lunar Tactics" for those purposes only, looked like a great extra hand. Wish they weren't so expensive.
Posted 4/5/2009 4:56 PM (#370396 - in reply to #370386) Subject: Re: Boga Grips
Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky
IMO get the Rapala gloves. I have both a RH and LH and like them. I have seen enough damage done to hands by gills and teeth. Lots of the time when that happens, the guy holding no longer is thinking of a good healthy hold either. He just wants his hand back and thus the fish can get hurt. As stated above though, use what gives you confidence and make sure you use each "tool" correctly to keep you safe and get a good release of your musky or pike.
Proper release techniques would make for a great 20-30 minute session at a musky show IMO.
Posted 4/5/2009 6:01 PM (#370408 - in reply to #370337) Subject: Re: Boga Grips
Location: Illinois
lambeau: well noted, thanks!
I think that is an excellent catch and the anglers and the PMTT should be proud of the achievement! I was real hesitant to say anything but I thought about it and decided a little discussion about it could not hurt- if I was careful. I'm all for using one if that is what the angler is comfortable doing. Maybe a pro angler who has trouble grabbing a musky properly deserves to fish the pro circuit. Personally I think the organization running the tourney ought to consider banning boga-lifts. It seems like it could really hurt a musky, and when "pro" is in your name, I think you need to hold your members to a higher degree than most. I completely agree with James that more should be done at shows and musky websites and across the industry in general to educate proper release methods. An ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure!
lambeau
Posted 4/5/2009 9:25 PM (#370471 - in reply to #370408) Subject: Re: Boga Grips
I completely agree with James that more should be done at shows and musky websites and across the industry in general to educate proper release methods. An ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure!
Posted 4/5/2009 10:28 PM (#370489 - in reply to #370337) Subject: Re: Boga Grips
Posts: 2024
Or... something like an entire two year study with backing from Muskies Inc. and Muskies Canada dedicated to examining the effects of catch-and-release angling on muskies with an eye towards handling, delayed mortality, and water temperature? Did I mention publications in peer-reviewed journals as well as fishing magazines, presentations to fishing clubs and science conferences, and an online blog with project updates?
Posted 4/6/2009 12:34 AM (#370503 - in reply to #370395) Subject: Re: Boga Grips
Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK
Mr Musky - 4/5/2009 5:54 PM
How many of you guy use the boga grip as an "assist" during hook removal/cutting? I seen it used on the new DVD "Solar Lunar Tactics" for those purposes only, looked like a great extra hand. Wish they weren't so expensive.
Mr Musky
This is how I use mine. They're awesome for that. I have torn up salmon mouths with them before though. Put a 20 lbs salmon on the Boga out of water, and they start thrashing, and they'll tear up their jaw pretty quickly. I think as far as holding and weighing, they're much better suited for the fish for which they were designed- 'cuda, bluefish, snook, peacock, etc. Put a 45" muskie with that kind of leverage...their jaw just isn't meant to support that weight, and the single point of the Boga can tear a hole if you keep them on there too long. I do use mine in the net to control the fish, but I don't like to have them on it out of the water.
Posted 4/6/2009 9:25 AM (#370527 - in reply to #370337) Subject: Re: Boga Grips
Location: Illinois
Lambeau & E50,
Great examples of what has already been done. I think those were terrific ways to educate the masses. I'm going to think of ways to incorporate release education into the booths I work in at the Tri-Esox. I also think it would be neat if IN BETWEEN seminar speakers, a couple of musky veterans did a 10 minute demonstration of how to un hook, pick up, photo, and release a musky while using the proper tools.
Of course more can be done. And of course no matter how much is done, the message doesn't get through to every angler. I just saw the picture and was a bit aghast. No big deal in the grand scheme of things. If I take away something from this, it's how the boga's can be used as an IN WATER unhooking device successfully, and quite possibly safer for the musky. Thanks for your replies and for posting that video once again. You never know who will watch that for the first time and the light bulb goes off!
Posted 4/6/2009 9:29 AM (#370528 - in reply to #370489) Subject: Re: Boga Grips
Location: Illinois
esox50 - 4/5/2009 10:28 PM
Or... something like an entire two year study with backing from Muskies Inc. and Muskies Canada dedicated to examining the effects of catch-and-release angling on muskies with an eye towards handling, delayed mortality, and water temperature? Did I mention publications in peer-reviewed journals as well as fishing magazines, presentations to fishing clubs and science conferences, and an online blog with project updates?
Posted 4/6/2009 4:29 PM (#370620 - in reply to #370337) Subject: Re: Boga Grips
Posts: 2024
Mike,
The project hasn't begun yet, but is slated to start this coming June. At present, I don't see us specifically looking at the impact Boga grips and other similar tools have on muskies due mainly to our limited time and the plethora of other data we hope to collect. That said, I think common-sense and a bit of caution would go a long way to address this issue. There is a good way and a bad way to use Boga grips and if used properly could be an OK tool to aid handling/releases... Certainly better than a gaff, but that's just my opinion.
Boga Grips