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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | i am in the market for a new boat and am trying to decide between a lund predator 2010 and a 21 foot legend bass boat. i am mostly a caster and didnt even need to troll last fall. i was still finding fish in shallows until the ice formed. i eventually plan on guiding so i might need to troll a little more often for musky but also plan on still fishing some bass tournaments as well. would the rod holders rip out of the fiberglass on the bass boat? does anyone know how fast the predator is with a 175? i really like the idea of that big of a boat with a tiller. no console taking up room. does anyone have any opinions? |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | I'm not intimately familiar with either boat, they're differenty entities. What kind of water do you normally fish? Big water like Mille Lacs and Green Bay, or bass water in the lilly pads? For heavier water, there's the deeper V of the Lund, but saying that I do like a glass boat in heavier water for ride quality, and is why I went with a Ranger when I originally thought I wanted a Lund.
As for guiding, a tiller layout is ideal for space, and a true bass boat interior ( massive front deck, two seats, back deck) fills up quick with muskie nets, 9' rods, big tackle boxes, etc. A multi-species interior with the deep gunwhales, windshield and more "cockpit" area is better suited for muskie IMO.
As far as speed, I can't tell ya 'cause I don't know. |
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | i mostly fish 2000 to 4000 square foot lakes but my goal for the summer is to learn leech. i just got a job in hackensack, since leech is only minutes away i will be there alot after work on weeknights.
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Posts: 1462
Location: Davenport, IA | I hate fishing out of deep v's personally. I also do not feel as safe with a tiller...vision is just too impaired IMO. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | I would agree with that. A tiller on big water can be a draw back. I'm at the 180* opposite of that with a stand-up CC. But for guiding, heck you can fish three guys comfortably from a 20' tiller. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | The 2010 Predator is by far the choice I'd go with. If your going to guide, the 2010 for safety purposes and rough water handling purpose will out perform the bass boat easily. That rig will run low to mid 50's with a 175 Optimax pending your load. Also, the option for trolling is definitely there with the Lund. Trolling with a bass boat just isn't very user friendly.
Also, resell of a Lund in that area will definitely be much better than a Legend. Northern MN is definitely Lund country. |
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | i am the opposite shuler ill take a case of the neck stretchs for the added maneuverability. it is the only way i would go aluminum boat. i dont like consoles just for that and the loss of boat room. i have been in alot of bass boats and deep v's. i just cant seem to make up my mind.lol |
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | i am an anti troller if i can be. but if i get someone in the boat that wants to catch a fish but cant handle casting all day or work a baitcaster i guess i have to. |
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Posts: 2089
| If you're going to run a bass boat a lot on Leech(108,000 acres) make sure your life insurance premiums are paid up. The 2010 would be an AWESOME boat for big water as well as the "smaller " lakes you mentioned. The Lund with the 175 comes with the Merc version of Mertens Power Tiller Steering standard. I've run this system on 2 ranger 620 Tillers and it's amazing. My Son could handle the 115 when he was 8!! The freeboard on a bass boat is too low and you'll take water over the gunwales in any moderate chop. I ran a Z-21 for a couple days on Mille Lacs and on 1 day had the bilge pumps running constantly. Went back to the console once and had water past my ankles. The boat was awesome while running, but not so great while fishing due to the wave action.You just can't beat a tiller for optimum boat control. I'd watch guys fly through a spot with an electric while I could "creep" with my tiller.I could go on and on. Gimme that Predator with a 175 Opti and a kicker(just in case) and I'd be set for life.My 2 cents.
Edited by Steve Jonesi 3/27/2009 8:56 PM
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | thats kind of what i was thinking but a bass boat has been a dream of mine ever since i was about 5. i cant get it out of my head. maybe someday i can own both. what i like about the predator is the front deck is still raised like a bass boat for flipping jigs, its not like every other v out there. i have been on minnetonka in a bass boat and on the st croix river ( pleasure boaters paradise) alot and have never really had a problem with the waves. but i see what you are saying. never been on mille lacs open water, only ice. itd another on my to do list for this summer |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The Predator will treat you very well. It's specifically designed as a Toothy Critter rig, too. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | For the record, Z-21's are known for taking them over the bow both fishing and running. They run and sit too flat in the water to be decent in the rough stuff.
If you're going to be running Leech 75% of the timeI would get a deep V, but that's not to say a bass boat can't get it done out there. It seems like every Frank Schneider tournament I'm running in 3'+ out there and I've never felt in danger. I run a Procraft 210sp which is the same hull as the early 21' Legends. They're more wet then a V but you can run on top of the water instead of plowing it. Once you learn to drive them you should be ok in anything you want to go out in. I've found if it's rougher then I want to be in, then most people would prefer to go somewhere else anyway.
You also have WAY more deck space in a bass boat then a tiller. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't fished out of a big bass boat. The other benefit to a bass boat is that you can store everything UNDER the decks. In a tiller you trip all over rods, tackle boxes, nets, coolers, etc. In a bass boat you also have the whole deck level to stand on whereas in a tiller you only have 12-14" around the edges to stand on. It's way more stable in the bass boat to stand and cast from.
Really the best of both worlds would be to get a Ranger, Triton, Skeeter, etc wheeled walleye boat in the 20'+ range with the back deck extension. That way you can run in the big stuff and you also have the proper deck space so so you're not constantly leaning over the water if you're not in the bow. |
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | i have also looked into the procraft but i found an 08 alpha 211 that has never been in the water for $30k but its in louisiana and a used 08 predator for $28k in mn. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | bassinbob84 - 3/27/2009 10:09 PM
thats kind of what i was thinking but a bass boat has been a dream of mine ever since i was about 5. i cant get it out of my head. maybe someday i can own both. what i like about the predator is the front deck is still raised like a bass boat for flipping jigs, its not like every other v out there. i have been on minnetonka in a bass boat and on the st croix river ( pleasure boaters paradise) alot and have never really had a problem with the waves. but i see what you are saying. never been on mille lacs open water, only ice. itd another on my to do list for this summer
You see tons of bass boats here on LSC, and this is big, Great Lakes water like Erie. They do it. I've never fished a bass boat here, but I see them running all the time in 3'-4' chop. Just can't imagine it being too much fun.
I didn't know much about tillers other than what I'd read until I fished a couple this last summer, one of which was Steve's 620 that he mentioned. Gawd, room for days. I'd still take my stand-up CC for blown days on big water, but the tiller layout was nice. |
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | I looked at a warrior bass boat cabelas had last year and thought it was very nice. I appreciate all the opinions unfortunatly I am trying to stay around $30k |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Frankies Marine in Chisago City MN has a Triton 21 XD on consignment in the 30's. It's a saltwater hull with a bass boat cap. I wish I could swing it right now because that boat is the best of both worlds. |
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| Tuffy designed the X-190 with exactly that "best of both worlds" approach.
http://tuffyboats.com/boats/x190
it has a V-hull that's deeper than many bassboats but shallower than most walleye boats. as such it puts you close to the water when you're fishing and is also a very capable runner when the waves are up. add the "Esox" rear deck extension and it has one of the best interior layouts for muskie fishing that you'll find anywhere. it's a great option for being able to fish a range of rivers, lakes or big waters.
it can be rigged as either a console (200hp) or tiller (90hp), an option that's not available in many other bassboat-style rigs which are often wheel-only.
pricing on new rigs compares very favorably to other fiberglass brands, and there's also a couple of one-year-used rigs available in the classifieds here on MuskieFirst right now.
Attachments
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 X190.JPG (41KB - 224 downloads)
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Posts: 656
Location: Forest Lake, Mn. | I run an 2005 Alumacraft Tournament Pro 185 tiller, with a 90 horse Yamaha 4stroke and a 15 horse Yamaha kicker. 18'11" by 8' wide. It was the largest tiller on the market that year. Lund and Ranger now has longer tiller boats but they're not as wide. I also have the Mertens Tiller assit steering system in it. With 4 batteries, 3 large screen Lowrance units, Raytheon Marine Band radio, 70lb??80lb? thrust Minnkota autopilot., wavewacker splash guards. So you can see that I have a lot of gear on it. I can still linedance 3 guys in it. It has below deck storage for 8 rods in one compartment and storage for 4 more 8 foot rods in the gunnel. I have 1 livewell with custom luretubes holding roughly 150 spinnerbaits and bucktails plus another compartment with 24 more luretubes that I can fit 3 to 5 glide/jerkbaits in each tube. Also. I carry 2 tackleboxes for the trolling lures, and surface baits. I figure that I'm carrying 300 to 400 lures in the boat. I have had 3 large men in it and have had plenty of room so we're not tripping over each other while fishing. I point out all this room, so as to argue with MuskiesTreats claim about no storage in a tiller boat The only thing that sits out in the open on the deck are the 2 tackle boxes and the landing net which is tucked along one side, out of the way. If I wasn't such a baithog, I could get by without the 2 tackleboxes. I use the other livewell as my cooler. (who needs livewells in a muskie boat? We don't use live bait and who keeps a fish?) As far as deck space, the whole boat is wide open deck. I can fish from anywhere in the boat without windshields and consoles in the way.
I can control the boat for fishing in the roughest water and hold on position better than a bassboat. I can use the bowmount or if that won't do the job, then the kicker and back into the wind/waves. or forward position with the kicker to push and the bowmount to steer and if the wind is still blowin me around I can use the main motor to back into the wind. If it's still blowin me off my spot and out of position it's probadly so rough that I don't want to be out anyways. I'm talking about fishing here not running from storms. Also, I can forward speedtroll.
I've been on outings with Muskie treats. He can run faster than I can by far and probably stay drier from side spray than I do. My top speed is about 35 mph on a good day. He's running 60+mph, I'm guessing. But then he's at least 110 more horsepower than I am and using that much more gas. With the windshield he stays drier than I do from side spray, but in any kind of storm he's as wet as I am because no boat has a roof to keep the rain off.
I was with Treats on an outing to LoTW N.W, Angle a couple of years back. We got caught in a Severe Thunderstorm coming back from the Tug Channel. It was wide open water to the south and the waves from Big Traverse Bay were rolling at us. Treats was able to keep his Procraft on plane and I had to back down because I couldn't quite push through the waves without pounding to much. I think my boat is underpowered with the 90 horse and it's rated for 100 horse but no one makes them. If I had a little more power I might have been able to keep her on plane and push through the waves better. I backed down the speed and trimmed the bow up and didn't have any waves coming over the bow and with the wide width she didn't roll or corkscrew. I did not at any time feel the least bit worried or scared that I would swamp my boat or have it roll over on me. Treats ProCraft seemed to be plenty safe and rode better than my boat in so far as he kept it on plane. We were both soaked from the rain. So much for the windshields on his bassboat. I did beat him back to the resort though. He got lost and headed around the south side of Oak Island and ran into even bigger waves. So, I guess you draw your own conculsions about rough water running and tiller vs bassboat. But for boat control while fishing a tiller boat will perorm better in rough water.
There are many opinions and experts on this subject. In the end it boils down to personal perference. Do you want speed? and some protection from the weather go with the bass boat. Do you want lots of room and great rough water fishing control? Then go with the tiller. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Muskie Treats - 3/29/2009 11:12 AM
Frankies Marine in Chisago City MN has a Triton 21 XD on consignment in the 30's. It's a saltwater hull with a bass boat cap. I wish I could swing it right now because that boat is the best of both worlds.
See, I'm the opposite; I think my 200C with a 620 hull and a saltwater cap is the best of both worlds.
Edited by esoxfly 3/30/2009 12:22 AM
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | fishpoop i would love to see some pics of your lure holders. what did you make them out of? |
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Location: Twin Cities | Schuler - 3/27/2009 10:14 AM
I hate fishing out of deep v's personally.
I'm curious, what makes you say that? |
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Posts: 656
Location: Forest Lake, Mn. | I can't give you any pictures of my luretubes because I don't have a digital camera. What I did was contact Dan over at Dunwright Tackle. He was selling clear plastic lure tubes to be used around the front deck standup pedistal seat base. (I assume he still markets these) I asked him if I could purchase some of the tubes unassembled. He kindly sold me some and put me in touch with the company that makes the glue he uses. All I had to do was measure my livewell and storage compartment, figure out how many tubes would fit, cut them to length and glue them together. They just sit in the compartments and are not attached to it so I can pull them out whenever I want. The only complication was figuring out where to leave space so the compatment latches had room to turn in so I could open and close them. The pattern I used is as follows.
Storage compartment (x=lure tubes and the top row of x's is the back of the compartment)
xx x xx
xx x xx
xx x xx total of 24 tubes with 3 to 5 lures per tube
xx x xx
xx O xx
the x's with no space between them are glued side to side together,as well as front to back. The front row with the O is the open space where the latch turns in. This is a top down view of the pattern. The row of 4 tubes is not glued to the others along side of it so I can pull all of them out of the compartment.
Live well pattern, top down view again and in this case the top row of x's is the right side of the livewell with the first x being the back and the second x being the front) Again, the O is open area without a luretube so the hatch latch has room to swing.
xx
xx
xx total of 12 tubes with as many bucktails and spinnerbaits as I can cram in
xO
OO
xO
xx
xx
I hope this helps. Sorry about the pix request this is the best I can do for you.
Edited by fishpoop 4/1/2009 2:00 AM
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Posts: 646
Location: In a shack in the woods | thanks, I am gonna try to make these for whatever boat I end up getting. |
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