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Posts: 3867
| A Georgia hillwilliam told me of this trick he uses to follow crappie schools that wander open water. He uses a 2-3' of light mono, one end has a single hook and the other has a fist-sized balloon. He hooks the crappie just behind the dorsal and tosses it all back in the water. The fish can't keep the balloon down, it follows the school and pulls the balloon around behind it. The crappie follows the school, the hillwilliam follows the balloon.
I have to give credit due to an effective trick, though I wouldn't do it myself as I suspect it may be illegal and surely not kind to the ballooned crappie. Besides, I don't fish for or eat crappies.
Would you do this???? |
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Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | wow! cool idea! Catch a runt and tag him like jaws! |
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| or do it the legal way and just use your locator????? |
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Posts: 413
Location: Madison WI | So what do you do when the muskie eats the crappie attached to the balloon? Definetly a good idea but seems to have some big cons associated with it. |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | So, when he's done fishing, does he track down the "flagged" crappie and collect his balloon line? I sure hope so. Not sure if this is legal, but littering rubber balloons in the lake sure isn't.
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Posts: 742
Location: Grand Rapids MN | Sounds like a good way to attract a crowd... ever through out a marker bouy on a hot walleye spot! |
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Posts: 619
| yeah, one thing i do to try to combat some of the pressure is throw out buoys like i found some real nice spots, and its amazing how many people stop and fish buoys. |
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Posts: 717
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | I have heard of this and actually witnessed it as well. I was night fishing for walleyes. A boat close by us would hook the caught walleye and attach some rope to a milk jug. Inside the milkjug was a glow stick so it was easy to follow in the dark. |
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| I'm pretty sure fishing with a jug or balloon not attached to a fishing rod is illegal in most states that have muskies. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Probably not legal or ethical, but an interesting idea nevertheless.
curleytail
Edited by curleytail 2/24/2009 7:17 PM
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Posts: 1184
Location: Iowa Great Lakes | I'll use crappies for bait, as well as anything else we happen to catch that could be considered a muskie lunch. Before you all go ballistic on me about this, here it is leagal to use game fish for bait. Must be counted as part of your daily limit and caught on the water your using it on. One of the top producers for fall monster smallies is slipbobbering perch or gills here.
Edited by shaley 2/24/2009 7:21 PM
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Posts: 409
Location: Almond, WI | Actually last I checked it is legal to use panfish as bait in WI as long as they are on the same water as caught. The regs say you can't use gamefish, which crappies, perch, bluegills, etc. are not. I would bet this particular practice is illegal, the DNR might construe it as jug fishing (even though it obviously is not meant to be). As far as ethics go, I fail to see how this is radically unethical as opposed to jamming a quick-set rig into a sucker's side and tossing it in. Does catching a fish with it (hopefully) somehow make it more ethical than doing basically the same thing to put yourself in position to catch more fish? |
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Posts: 909
| That ballon thing has been going on for many years. I can remember my grandfather telling me about some relative from Down south who showed him how they did that for Crappie. he told me that about 35 or 40 years ago!
Brian Gilmore |
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Posts: 4266
| i believe that using panfish or even gamefish for bait is legal in most states as long as the fish came from the same lake. in this case they aren't even bait, they are more like confidential informants wearing a wire. i can't believe all the negativity about this. all the what-ifs and even littering citations. this has been going on for ages. guys who troll open-water walleyes will hook one up with a #10 hook through the very tip of a dorsal fin and connect a slip bobber to keep track of the direction and even the depth of the school. i watched my dad do it with legal walleyes and a 2 inch piece of doweling just to see if the fish moved or just shut off. we would always return to pull in the hooked fish, and we learned tons about walleye movement and habits in the lake where he had his cottage. some things were very valuable as to migratory patterns within the lake throughout the year. it can be a very valuable tool, and i see nothing wrong with trailing a school of panfish. i don't believe it's dirty, it's stealthy.
i can't wait for the end of winter so everyones shorts get readjusted. |
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Posts: 232
Location: Sun Prairie, WI | In Wisconsin this would only be legal if you kept a line attached to the rig that went back to the boat or fisherman.
There is even a question on the agenda of the Spring meetings somewhat simular to this. It is about the remote control boats that have a line and bait attached. They want to make it so you need to keep a line attached, otherwise it would be illegal. Look it up on the questionaire, it explains it very well.
Just my 2 cents worth. |
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Posts: 135
Location: Irvine, KY | I have to go with beaver on this one, I see nothing wrong with it and have done it myself with blue gills (I always retrive it when im done and unhook it) Ive learned a lot doing this, its legal here and pretty sure it would be in most states as well. |
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Posts: 1287
Location: WI | It seem unethical to me. Redneck fish finder. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | JKahler - 2/24/2009 11:44 PM
It seem unethical to me. Redneck fish finder.
IMHO it doesn't seem any less ethical than $3000 worth of fancy electronics. Don't get me wrong here, I use the electronics too ! |
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Posts: 613
Location: Michigan | It doesnt seem unethical to me really....if hurting the fish is the big thing here I think it hurts a musky more to set huge trebles into its mouth than it dos to do this to a crappie. Most of us ice fish as well - seems pretty similar to me. |
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Posts: 1168
| Page 7 of the 2008-09 Wisconsin Regulations:
"to fish using the technique known as “jug” fishing in all waters of the state. Jug fishing is the use of any free floating or anchored bouyant device with attached hook and line that is not held or otherwise controlled by the angler."
This line (or something like it) has been in the WDNR fishing regulations for as long as I can remember. I am unsure about other states in the midwest. There are states where "jug" kits are sold and this form of fishing is legal.
Edited by ulbian 2/25/2009 2:18 AM
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Posts: 4266
| jug fishing is a means of angling where you attach a baitfish to a jine leading to a jug or other float and then use the line from the jug to actually catch a fish. when you use one fish out of a school to track the school, you aren't using the fish for bait, just for a red-neck locator.
i see nothing unethical about it. it's what my dad did becase he didn't have a freakin tv camera in his boat to lower into the water to track a school. |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Beaver - 2/25/2009 7:44 AM when you use one fish out of a school to track the school, you aren't using the fish for bait, just for a red-neck locator. Going back to the beginning post... What the original post said was jug fishing, the baitfish in question was "hooked" to a float and this was not attached to a fishing rod or the boat. I'm not with any DNR law enforcement division but that sounds like jug fishing to me. I can't see how anyone could explain their way out of a ticket for: jug fishing or an unattended line. It could also be considered too many lines in the water if someone actually claimed the jug was theirs and it put them over the legal number of rods in the water. If the baitfish wasn't actually hooked and was tied to the float I would call that a remote "stringer' and probably legal in most states. Provided the person wasn't trying to get around a creel limit.
Edited by Will Schultz 2/25/2009 7:28 AM
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Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | Targa01 - 2/24/2009 2:54 PM
Sounds like a good way to attract a crowd... ever through out a marker bouy on a hot walleye spot!
Especially in your area! I was on Winni once and put a 24" in the boat. Suddenly this guy on the other side of the bar starts up the big, roars up within 20 feet and puts down the biggest buoy I've ever seen with no shame at all. He must have been from Iowa  |
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Posts: 1168
| If the "jug" or balloon is attached back to the boat there would be no problems as it is still, by definition, "under the angler's control." As it was explained in the initial post there was not a line going back to the boat. There's where the difference is.
It is legal to fish in this type of manner provided you have that line going back to the boat. I have rigged up tip-ups to use in the summer like this and was approached by a warden. After his disbelief at what he saw, which was followed by a bit of laughter, and then a "that's a pretty clever device you created," he informed me it was not illegal because I had them tied back to the boat. If they would have been left to float aimlessly without that connection to the boat it would have created problems. |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Gotta agree with Beav on this as well. Perhaps I am “unethical”, but I fail to see the part that is unethical about this. To me this is using your brains, and being pretty ingenious! Gosh dang PETA is taking over fishing!
I can see this technique showing an angler a lot more than any depth finder could. An interesting idea. Now I just need to catch a cisco, whitefish, or sucker in the summer to show me the way!
Perhaps a way around the “jug fish” deal is to have two leads of line running from the fish. One up to a float of some sort, and another to your boat attached to a “free spooled” reel of some sort. When you are ready to go you simply crank up the fish, and go to the next spot. Hmmm?!
Only issue I see with this whole deal is a darn predator fish eating your “scout”, and giving you a false impression of what the “school” is doing!
Thanks for the good idea! 
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Posts: 1269
Location: Stevens Point, Wi. | Actually, an old trick. I used it back in the 50's @ 60's. Probably picked up the tip from Outdoor Life or Field and Stream magazine. Used to thread a length of mono through back of pearch/crappie with needle {no hook attached} and suspended under a bobber. The technique worked well over open water, but where weeds were present, the tattlle tail usually got tangled up and lost his friends. |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | I have never done it, but have considered it to track schools of walleye or baitfish. If you have concerns with the "jug fishing" rules do what ghoti described or just clip a snap into the fin. With no hook on the "scout" you are not fishing with it.
Interesting idea that is ages old. I will never do it, but find it interesting. |
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Posts: 1080
| Over the years, I have heard a great quote:
"There are no new ideas. Only great memories."
I think this method/idea/technique talked about in this thread plays well into that quote...
(Not saying I live and die and buy into that quote....but I find this thread funny in regards to a quote like that, that this is definitely not a new thing on the scene of fishing...)
Edited by MACK 2/25/2009 10:24 AM
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Posts: 1529
| im still chuckling. . here we are in the new millenium. and were jugging for fish. . oh well each to there own. maybe i can start eaten possums too. |
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Posts: 1168
| woodieb8 - 2/25/2009 11:29 AM
im still chuckling. . here we are in the new millenium. and were jugging for fish. . oh well each to there own. maybe i can start eaten possums too.
No need to chuckle...the Spanish American War was still largely fought on horseback and just over 100 years later in Afghanistan there was fighting on horseback.
I'll admit, I've "jugged" for fish but tying it to the boat is the key that makes it legal. Instead of brightly colored bouys I'll rig up empty soda bottles instead. They draw less attention than a bouy does because people just chalk it up to some jerk littering.
Then imagine the confusion on the face of a warden when he stumbles upon a guy with a couple of duck decoys tied to his boat that have tip up shafts running through them with baited hooks. Since they were tied to the boat they were legal.
If you want a good possum recipe I can send one your way. You'd be suprised at how good some stuff tastes that the general population wouldn't touch if they knew what it was. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Mmmmmmmm...... Possum... I likes my possum medium rare... And my crow well done.
It seems like a lot of people have been eating Crow on this site this winter, lol
Just having some fun guys. Fishing the Cave next week should cure me of D.W. S.
Dysfunctional Winternet Syndrome
Jerome
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | I have heard that befor and actually talked about it on the air several years back. Old timers on lake winnebago do it to follow schools of walleys and jumbo perch. I have actually heard of tournament anglers marking schools of walleys like this the day or two befor a tournament. Day of tournament they go out early find the ballon and know where they will start fishing. Tricky or smart? I think both. Now ethical or not befor a tournament is a better question. |
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Posts: 135
Location: Irvine, KY | In Kentucky you dont need to have the jug attatched to the boat... jug fishing is legal on any lake with at least 500 surface acres. Each boat is limited to 50 jugs and each jug must have the name, adress and phone number of the user and they have to be checked and rebaited once every 24 hours and removed when you leave the lake.
This would make the ballon idea illegal for the tournament agler in KY for 2 reasons (1)youre leaving the lake, (2) your using a gamefish for bait which is illegal in KY.... unless there's no hook present ... then Its just unethical or a violation of tournament rules IMO to do it the day before a tournament and return to hunt up the ballon/ jug. I dont see a problem with finding the fish DURRING the tournament and using a jug/ballon to keep track of the school, though the fish might have to be of legal size and count towards your limit since its kinda in your possesion... sort of a gray area there lol.
TN has a similar regulation... when I was younger we would set our jugs out in the morning in the mouths of bays and creeks for catfish and then troll all day for white bass and hybrid striped bass, then hunt our jugs up and go home. By far the most productive method for catfish.... one week on old hickory lake in TN would give us enough fish to last us 2 years. I still do this for catfish (on a smaller scale) on occasions when we decide to have a fish fry. |
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Posts: 413
Location: Madison WI | tyler k - 2/24/2009 9:24 PM
Actually last I checked it is legal to use panfish as bait in WI as long as they are on the same water as caught. The regs say you can't use gamefish, which crappies, perch, bluegills, etc. are not. I would bet this particular practice is illegal, the DNR might construe it as jug fishing (even though it obviously is not meant to be). As far as ethics go, I fail to see how this is radically unethical as opposed to jamming a quick-set rig into a sucker's side and tossing it in. Does catching a fish with it (hopefully) somehow make it more ethical than doing basically the same thing to put yourself in position to catch more fish?
We are allowed to use gamefish as bait also in WI, assuming its of legal size, included in your bag limit and it is used on the same body of water that you caught it on. This was recently changed in wisconsin i believe 2-3 yrs ago. |
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Posts: 3867
| Thanks for all the interesting responses. I'm not at all suprised to find it is an old school trick. I never thought of the relationship to jug fishing because in the context of my initial post the ballooned panfish was not bait, it was a tool used to track movements of a school of the fish targeted by the angler. Not a trick I would try, myself.
Edited by Ranger 2/27/2009 2:17 PM
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Posts: 1529
| still laughing. in reality they jug for turtles here in southern ontario. but i aint eaten possum., nuclear rats |
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| The "trick" is older than dirt. It was old when I was a little kid. I read about it and tried it. I found that the fish gets tired and looses the school if they move very fast if you use a fist sized balloon or something wiith much drag. a thin straight bobber or pencil shaped balloon is best. Never had one eaten, but it sure could happen.
L |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | Thats trick has been used on lake winnebago for 40 years allready that I know of. It was used befor locators were around. It was even a topic onece on my radio show. Many old timers called in and said they did it.
Pfeiff |
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Posts: 8781
| I think it's pretty clever, and funny! Will brings up a good point -- it could be construed as jug fishing, but that's actually legal in some areas as far as I know. I find it REALLY amusing that people will use all sorts of electronics, underwater cameras, etc. and have no trouble with it, but when you use a primitive method for locating fish, people have a problem with it...
Those same people probably have no problem with the brush pile they put at the end of their pier, though.
Would I do it? I'd make sure it was legal first, because I don't need the aggravation. But I'd do it! Not so much to follow the school, but just out of curiousity to see if it works or not.
Besides -- Crappies taste good! |
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(Dirty) Trick to follow Baitfish Pods in Open Water