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Posts: 714
Location: Rhinelander, WI | Did anyone ever get this clarified over the 2008 season?
The following are excerpt of post written by John Aschenbrenner:
Cut-n-paste from The Guide to Wisconsin Hook and Line Fishing Regulations 2007-2008, page 52:
"Motor trolling is permitted on Wisconsin-Michigan Boundary Waters except Vilas County boundary waters, where motor trolling is prohibited."
The above is from an earlier post. If read closely it means, in WI counties other then Vilas County, you can troll on boundary waters, on BOTH sides of the state line, BUT in Vilas county, you can NOT troll on Vilas county boundary waters, But you can troll on Michigan boundary waters. Meaning, if you are on the WI side of the line, you are Vilas County boundary waters and can not troll. If you are on the Michigan side you are on Michigan boundary waters and you are legal to troll. Simple, but often misunderstood.
To quote another line from 2008 Guide to Wisconsin Hook and Line Fishing Regulations. page 58, regarding Wisconsin-Michigan Boundary Waters, "Regulations on these waters differ between states. You must obey the regulation of the state in which you are fishing."
Then John responding to a poster saying you can only troll on the Mi side of LVD, but on no other border lakes:
Just read the line on Michigan regs for 2008 on line, BUT I find different wording. It says,"You may fish from a motor boat with a motor running or a sailboat under sail only 'on the Michigan portions' of the waters of Lac Vieux Desert in Gogebic Co." But, no where, in the Michigan regs could I find, you could not troll in Michigan portions of say...Smokey Lake, Iron Co. All I find is that it is legal to troll in Michigan, and if I am on Michigan waters I can troll. Please show me where it states anywhere in the Michigan Regs, where it is illegal to motor troll in any MICHIGAN territorial waters!
Also, on this page, the second sentence states, "Where regulations of Michigan and Wisconsin differ, persons shall comply with the regulations of the state in whose territorial waters they are fishing."
The following was posted by another reader:
Here's my get out of jail free card on this one - it's the email I got from the MI DNR. I keep it in my boat in case I do get stopped for trolling. It also has MI DNR contact info if you want it.
"You can troll on the Michigan side, but not on the Wisconsin side.
Thanks, Tim Robson
PS. Do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions.
Sgt. Timothy D. Robson
Department of Natural Resources
Law Enforcement Division
1420 US-2 West
Crystal Falls, MI 49920
TX: (906) 875-6622
Fax: (906) 875-3336
Cell: (906) 284-0066
Pager: (906) 222-2742
E-Mail: [email protected]"
I am planning some family trips to some boarder lakes I like, NOT LVD, the thought is my dad and bro-in-law will troll for Walleye’s if it is legal, while I cast for musky. Before I contacted Mr. Robson I want to know if this issue was solved by anyone else during the season. I am sure more than just myself is interested.
Thanks
Nail A Pig!
Mike
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Mike I dont recall seeing a direct answer to that question. My best advice would be to call Sgt. Tobson directly since he can write you the ticket not members of this board. |
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Posts: 86
| In an email I received from Mr. Robson he stated, "yes, you can troll on the MI side and not the WI side. |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha , lets open this can of worms again?? You are correct sir. I called the Michigan Office in Baraga they told me the same thing. Smokey for instance has the boat launch in Wisconsin and about 200 yards of the lake. If you troll and stay from the first point north you are safe from a ticket . That gives almost an 1/8th mile of cusion . Trolling is legal on all Michigan waters including those that border Vilas county. You have the email from the D.N.R. Keep it in your boat. But know where the borders are,having a good G.P.S. with mapping chip will help you to see exactly where that line is.
The line that many people miss in both Wisconsin and Michigan regulations is this one. Quote: Where regulations differ you are to follow the regulations of the states waters you are in. This means that in Vilas county because the regs differ you can only troll on the Michigan side.
Another point to remember is this , anyone that has a wisconsin or Michigan license can fish the entire lake and this means that if you hold a wisconsin license you can troll in Michigan.
You did the right thing by contacting the D.N.R. and printing out the Email. I wish that the vandlism would stop at the Smokey boat launch. I know of two different trucks that were keyed because they were trolling on Smokey. This kind of thing has to stop and this issue needs to be placed high on the list of things to note when we are talking about border waters. I am a Michigan resident and I follow the laws to the letter. I should not have to defend my right to troll in my state. Kingfisher |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | KING TROLLER: "Trolling is legal on all Michigan waters including those that border Vilas county."
MICHIGAN FISHING REGS"........."These rules supercede all others concerning boundry waters of Mich/WI., Where they conflict you must obey the regs of the territorial waters the angler is fishing in"
YOU MAY FISH FROM A MOTORBOAT WITH MOTOR RUNNING ON MICHIGAN PORTIONS OF LAC VIEUX DESERT, GOGEBIC CO.
WISCONSIN: NO MOTOR TROLLING VILAS CO BOUNDRY WATERS
MICHIGAN: TROLLING PERMITTED ON LVD (MICHINGAN SIDE) ONLY
"This means that in Vilas county because the regs differ you can only troll on the Michigan side. ".........BUT michigan regs clearly state the only permittable water you can troll is LVD.
Pretty simple if you follow the regs.
Edited by Gander Mt Guide 1/22/2009 1:40 PM
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Mike.......you're best bet it so talk to Warden McKenzy of Vilas county. Attached is the PDF of Michigan's regs. Because Wardens vary and especially because they vary in their regs knowledge, I'd use this as a guide.
A printed email saying "sure, go ahead" means zip in court. Especially if the warden is wrong.
Attachments
----------------
 docum...-boundary-waters_229790_7.pdf (38KB - 301 downloads)
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Posts: 717
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | What is so hard about this? Troll on the Michigan side, don't troll on the WI side.... As Kingfisher said, get a good GPS. |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "What is so hard about this?"
There's only one water you can troll....LVD. That seems to be the hard part for some to understand. |
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Posts: 8831
| The way I understand it is if the WI side is in Vilas County, you can NOT troll, whether you are technically IN michigan or not. |
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Posts: 717
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | "You can troll on the Michigan side, but not on the Wisconsin side.
Thanks, Tim Robson
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Posts: 717
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | My understanding is you can troll all the waters (WI or MI side) that are shared by WI and MI, exept the ones in Villas County. (Where LVD and Smokey are.) I don't even think there are any other muskie waters that are shared by both states. Want to play it safe? Troll on the Michigan side, not on the WI side. Wisconsin cannot regulate MI waters. And trolling is legal on ALL waters belonging to MI. |
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Posts: 8831
| The problem is that this statemet is ambiguous:
"Motor trolling is permitted on Wisconsin-Michigan Boundary Waters except Vilas County boundary waters, where motor trolling is prohibited."
Obviously, if you are in Vilas County you can NOT motor troll, no matter where the rest of the lake is located. I would still be concerned about launching in WI, trolling on the MI side, and being apprehended, especially if you were trolling for walleyes and intended to harvest them. At that point it becomes the warden's word against yours, and when it is regarding a law that is poorly understood and often misinterpreted by both angler and warden alike, I could see that getting ugly.
You have to read the MI regulations to understand the WI regulations. That makes a whole lot of sense, it really does.
No wonder real estate is so cheap on the boundary waters... |
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Posts: 350
Location: WESTERN WI | Is this discussion an annual event? |
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Posts: 371
Location: Dixon, IL | It don't make sense that Mamie Lake that you can trolling in Michigan and not in Wisconsin. Wisconsin stocked Muskies and Michigan stocked walleye. Its fair even and trolling is allow or not but not yes and no in the same lake! |
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Posts: 86
| As stated earlier, MI DNR (Mr. Robson)says it ok to troll on the MI portion of any boundary lake in Vilas County.
So I decided to get the WI DNR's take on this...
From James Bishop, DNR Public Affairs Manager, North Region
In an email he said, "When fishing on any Wis-Mich border lake in Vilas County an angler must know where the boundary lines is approximately located. Michigan allows motor trolling, Wisconsin's Vilas County does not and an angler found trolling in these waters could be cited. Am forwarding your message too to the local Conservation Warden. Thanks for asking." (He forwarded this message to Richard Thole, local warden)
In his response he acknowledges that one must know where the boundary line lies and that MI allows motor trolling and Vilas does not. He also says "any" boundary lake , not just LVD. Yes, I've read all the regulations and can see how it can be interpreted either way, BUT the MI and WI DNR are appearently interpreting this rule the same way:Troll in MI/Do not troll in WI.
Edited by jbmuskie 1/23/2009 11:32 AM
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| And this comes up every year? Troll MI... Don't troll WI. Everyone got that? Not rocket science..... |
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Posts: 714
Location: Rhinelander, WI | Thank you everyone for the responses, I really appreciate it. Though I agree it’s not rocket science, there is obviously confusion on how the regs are written. And before I tell my father it’s ok to troll for walleye on the MI side of any Vilas county boarder lake, I want to be sure.
The first time I saw this come up was last year in a LVD thread, before that I always thought trolling on all Vilas county border lakes was illegal, in my opinion that thread never came to a definitive conclusion on the subject.
It looks like we now have interpretations from representatives of both state agencies, I still will get my own interpretations from wardens before I actually send my family out trolling.
Thanks Again!
Nail A Pig!
Mike
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "MI allows motor trolling and Vilas does not. He also says "any" boundary lake , not just LVD. Yes, I've read all the regulations and can see how it can be interpreted either way, BUT the MI and WI DNR are appearently interpreting this rule the same way:Troll in MI/Do not troll in WI."
Wiscosnin spells it out for you on the the last bullet point of the Regulations........."You must obey the regulation of the state in which you are fishing in."
Michigan spells it out even clearer........."YOU MAY FISH FROM A MOTORBOAT WITH MOTOR RUNNING ON MICHIGAN PORTIONS OF LAC VIEUX DESERT, GOGEBIC CO."
If you notice, they don't say "ALL" boundry waters. They specifically state LVD. The importance of knowing where the boarders are isn't in IF you can troll, its knowing when you're in Michigan, you should have the regulations for Michigan.
I'd send Mr. Bishop the PDF I posted here of page 13 of Michigan's regs and ask him again. He's not a Michigan warden. |
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| Not to add more complexity but are you supposed to have a MI license if you're trolling one of these border lakes, on the MI side, adhering to the MI regulations? Or can you have just a WI license, be on the MI side and be trolling? |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | A permit from either state is fine as long as you stay within the Mich/Wis boundry waters. Example.....Cisco Chain. Ok to fish the three boundy waters with either license, but if you ventured up to, say, Thousand Island or Cisco lakes, they're completely Michigan. |
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Posts: 86
| This will be my last post on this matter...
I've already stated what the DNR contacts from both states have relayed to me.
"And this comes up every year? Troll MI... Don't troll WI. Everyone got that? Not rocket science....."
Amen to that.
"I'd send Mr. Bishop the PDF I posted here of page 13 of Michigan's regs and ask him again. He's not a Michigan warden."
That's exactly what I did.
Gander Mt. Guide, I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just stating my findings.
Here is the contact information for both of the the gentlemen I communicated with.
Please, contact them yourself (or whomever needs to be contacted) and ask them for their interpretation. (That way you can point out to them everything you feel needs to be pointed out.) Once you've done this, will you please report back with your findings?
[email protected]
[email protected]
Jason Boersma
Edited by jbmuskie 1/28/2009 10:51 AM
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | I already contacted mr Robson....did so yesterday and I will post my response from him. |
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Posts: 285
Location: NE Wisconsin | Gander Mt Guide
What was the response of Mr. Robson????
Inquiring Minds Want to Know.
John Aschenbrenner |
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Posts: 229
| Gander Mtn Guide:
What was the response? Please post.
John |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | NO RESPONSE! Seriously. Never head Jack from Him. Even called the Michigan DNR Office in Lansing and was given the run around. They transfered me to his office, nada. I left a message and an email. |
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Posts: 285
Location: NE Wisconsin | Gander Mt Guide
Any response yet from the MI DNR about the trolling? Or did we get a response which you do not want to post?????
John Aschenbrenner |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | What did I say?........I said I'd post the response when I got one. That has not happened. IF it does, I'll post EXACTLY what's said by Lt. Robson. If it'll make you happy, I'll resend the email again today. |
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Posts: 314
Location: Bristol, IN | Holy Butt-scratch Batman!!! Why don't you just go to WI DNR & MI DNR websites and read the regulations. It really isn't that difficult to do if you you have access to a computer.
"Ignorance is Bliss"...Thank God I'm not a blissfull person. Obviously there are several that are overdosing on bliss.
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | You'd think it would be that easy, but somehow people are finding....."you may fish from a boat with the motor running on the Michigan portions of LVD", as an open invite to troll all of them. How? I have no clue. I do have a feeling that because Michigan allows trolling, they don't read the Boundry Waters regs and think they're ok. |
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Posts: 717
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | jbmuskie - 1/23/2009 12:31 PM
As stated earlier, MI DNR (Mr. Robson)says it ok to troll on the MI portion of any boundary lake in Vilas County.
So I decided to get the WI DNR's take on this...
From James Bishop, DNR Public Affairs Manager, North Region
In an email he said, "When fishing on any Wis-Mich border lake in Vilas County an angler must know where the boundary lines is approximately located. Michigan allows motor trolling, Wisconsin's Vilas County does not and an angler found trolling in these waters could be cited. Am forwarding your message too to the local Conservation Warden. Thanks for asking." (He forwarded this message to Richard Thole, local warden)
In his response he acknowledges that one must know where the boundary line lies and that MI allows motor trolling and Vilas does not. He also says "any" boundary lake , not just LVD. Yes, I've read all the regulations and can see how it can be interpreted either way, BUT the MI and WI DNR are appearently interpreting this rule the same way:Troll in MI/Do not troll in WI.
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Read the Michigan Boundry waters regs and tell me what they say please.
or better yet, could you please post the Michigan regs page where it states you can troll ALL Michigan and Wisconsin Vilas County Boundry waters?
Edited by Gander Mt Guide 2/16/2009 12:32 PM
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Posts: 717
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/MI-WI-boundary-waters_229790_...
"Where the regulations of MI and WI differ, persons shall comply with the regulations of the state in whose territorial waters they are fishing." Meaning - If WI says "no power trolling" and MI says "yes", the person shall comply with the state of whose waters they are fishing. Troll MI, don't troll WI.
"You may fish from a motorboat with the motor running or a sailboat under sail only on the MI portions of the waters of LVD in Gogebic Co." Meaning - You can only motor troll in the MI portions of LVD. You may NOT troll the WI portion.
"THESE RULES AND REGULATIONS SUPERSEDE ALL OTHERS GOVERNING FISHING ON MICHIGAN\WISCONSIN BOUNDARY WATERS THAT IN ANY WAY CONFLICT. .... CRAYFISH MAY NOT BE POSSESSED OR USED FOR BAIT ON MI-WI BOUNDARY WATERS." Michigan allows for use of crayfish on all other lakes. But it says PLAIN AS DAY you may not use them on the boundary lakes. Thus, THIS RULE SUPERCEDES ALL OTHER RULES.
In conclusion, NOWHERE in the special regulations does it say "NO MOTOR TROLLING IN MI WATERS". That means, that you must "COMPLY WITH THE REGULATIONS OF THE STATE IN WHOSE TERRITORIAL WATERS [you] ARE FISHING". |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "" Meaning - If WI says "no power trolling" and MI says "yes", the person shall comply with the state of whose waters they are fishing. Troll MI, don't troll WI.". Huh? I don't see that written anywhere.......they state that you have to follow the regs of Michigan's Boundry waters, NOT Michigan's inland waters regs. They state clearly that you must follow the rules of Wis, if in Wis and you must follow Michigan's regs if in Michigan and when you do...you must follow the boundry water's regs.
""You may fish from a motorboat with the motor running or a sailboat under sail only on the MI portions of the waters of LVD in Gogebic Co." Meaning - You can only motor troll in the MI portions of LVD. You may NOT troll the WI portion."
Uhm, nice try. The regs are telling what boundry waters you can troll..LVD...why wouldn't they do the same thing FOR ALL BOUNDRY LAKES, not just LVD? "...only on the MI portions of the waters of LVD in Gogebic Co."....See that word "ONLY"....what does ONLY mean? Wouldn't it be easier for them to say...."Trolling permitted on Michigan side"?? They don't.
I think it would have been easy for them to repeat the regs on Michigan's inland trolling...but they don't. They're telling you what water is THE ONLY water you can troll. Why? I asked a WDNR warden what he thought about this over 5 years ago....his response (at least I got one from him, unlike LT Robson) was basically this. Michigan wardens don't have Michigan access to lakes like Tenderfoot, they won't patrol waters where their waters are land locked by Wisconsin, LVD has a Michigan launch, thus the regs on trolling there. Its an enforcement nightmare to try to watch all those slivers of Michigan waters, it was easier for them to ban trolling on all but LVD.
Edited by Gander Mt Guide 2/19/2009 7:17 PM
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| I agree with Jim. Nowhere does it say that you CAN'T troll in MI. So, I'm going to troll in MI whenever I go to any of those lakes. And then I'll watch you (GMG) struggling to troll with your oars!  We still have the 5th amendment right? |
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