|
|
Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | I'm looking for a rod that can handle casting the Pounder size bulldawg yet still has a SOFT enough tip to hang onto a GIANT fish once you pin up. Thus, I'm looking for feedback in regard to the ACTIONS on these two St. Croix Rods.
Sling Blade and Big Dawg
St. Croix's website has all the specs on these two rods... but it doesn't help me answer how the two rods LOAD UP. The Sling Blade is a Heavy Action and the Big Dawg is an EXTRA Heavy Action. It sure would be nice if they had parabolic curves defining what Extra Heavy means in regard to how the rod loads.
I know that the best way to make an opinion/decision about these rods is to hold one in your OWN hands and see for yourself.... but these rods are not very accessible in retail stores just yet. Thus, I'm looking for opinions from anyone who may have used these rods already.
Maybe I should re-state my question. Do you feel the Sling Blade rod rated for 2-6 oz. can handle casting almost exclusively a 14 oz. lure? Heck, even the Big Dawg is only rated to 10 oz.... but my fear with the Big Dawg is that it will have the action of a Pool Cue.
If you have any experience with either of these rods... please respond. Thanks. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 231
| I know you asked (ANY EXPERIENCE) with either of these rods..... The answer is no, but I've held both & thought the sling blade was a little softer (not as much as you would think). Both are truly qaulity rods, as is ST. Croixs whole Legend line up. With this being said, I would suggest looking into a Calstar (built for saltwater). You can snap cast pounders with this blank. The tip is soft enough yet to keep a fish pegged, but PLENTY of backbone to stay in charge. Frank customs built one that I purchased, and all I can say is WOW!! Definatley the rod for throwing the the heavy lobsters (as I like to call them, LOL) IMHO.
Chas |
|
| |
|
Posts: 494
Location: midwest | For a dedicated pounder / big suzy rod I agree. Look into a custom built off a Calstar blank. Physical rod weight will be heavier but it is what you are looking for in a pounder rod with good fish fighting characteristics. |
|
| |
|
| I agree the Calstar blank is good for big plastics..I've had one for a few yrs...
Though I don't use it that much as it is now relegated to a sucker rod...I have a St Croix Legend, built to 9' by Keith at Pro Edge that I think you would like Jason..it has enough tip to really feel like it will be able to sling big plastics all day and isn't too stiff to sling D10s....
I ordered a 9' Custom Sling Blade rod though....to me, having a rod just for mag dawgs/pounders etc is what I wanted, so I got the Legend and have other rods for D10s...though the Legend will toss them at times |
|
| |
|
Posts: 375
| i too have had keith @ proedge build me some custom croix legends. two out of the bass mega swimbait blanks which are fantastic for light to mid-weight baits and db 10's to a point and the other out of the big dawg blank for the heavier plastics which from what i have heard can also do a good job with db 10's since it won't load up nearly as much in the eight compared to the swimbait blank with their heavy resistance in the water. i just downsized my number of rods in the boat and can't justify a slingblade rod as well when i beleive i pretty much have "things" covered... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Thanks for feedback on alternatives to consider (especially the custom options), however in this post I'm only interested in comparing these two rods.
I have plenty of good sticks in my rod locker now for fishing blades. But, I'm still seeking a solid stick for pitching big rubber. Been using Heavy Action rods with rubber now and the STIFF action has cost me some fish. I refuse to take the risk of using those stout rods in 2009.... and its also why I'm a little gunshy of the Big Dawg.
So... if I buy a Sling Blade rod with the intent of making it my pounder rod.... will I be disappointed in its performance (too soft for casting or too stiff for fighing fish)? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 814
| Go with the Calstar, its tip is fiberglass for about 2 feet then blends right into graphite, mine is built to 9 feet, with a 18 inch handle. it handles rubber like a champ, plus it cost LESS than both of the croix's your talking about. And if you want to go even cheaper (under 250) go with the Jason Hamernick rod you can get a 9 footer for under 200 bucks. I spoke with several guys at the show including Jason and they have used this rod for a couple seasons and caught a bunch of big fish casting pounders and big curly's during the late fall period with great results. I am not sure what retailers carry this rod but I know you can get them in milwaukee or directly through Jason. hope this helps
Edited by mskyhntr 1/12/2009 7:45 PM
|
|
| |
|
| Just curious, in regards to the Sling Blade, what is the purpose of the exposed rod blank in the butt section, and the extra short foregrip above the reel?
Thanks |
|
| |
|
Posts: 90
| The purpose of the exposed handle or poodle handle is aesthetics. Some people like it some don't, you can buy the rod with or without it. It's been done in customs for awhile now to have something different. You could say you lose weight by not using that cork, but it is negligible.
The rod is lighter then the bigdawg, I think it going to be a better rod for throwing mag dawgs and pounders, but the rod loads a lot like the big dawg rod. It definately is not too soft for casting them. If you were unsatisfied with the way the dawg rod reacted while fighting fish you probably will feel the same about the sling blade. If you thought, "man I wish this was just a bit lighter" you will love it.
If I were you I would buy the Loomis steel 25 and be done with it. I can cast pounders all day with it and it fishes a lot like an IMX. It has the tip action you are probably looking for, but you don't lose power and it isn't that slow glass action. Not quite as fast as a Diamondback. You would have to get the steel as a custom but even then they end up cheaper then the $330 for the sling blade as long as you don't go overboard on the wraps or guides.
Edited by veha45 1/12/2009 10:28 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 46
Location: Central Illinois | I have the 8'6 extra heavy Legend Elite St. Croix and it works great for what I want it to, tossing pounders. For anything else it's to heavy. I would like it to have just little more flex in the rod but overall I've been very happy with it. I've never used a sling blade, only held one so I can't really compare them. |
|
| |
|
| veha... so you're saying the steel 25 has a softer action than the slingblade? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 90
| It has a faster action and is not nearly as heavy in power or weight (also 6in shorter for blank length). The tip is softer. The closest rod it acts like is a Diamondback and the best way to describe the power is between the Heavy and Jerkbait blanks, but not quite as fast as a Diamondback. |
|
| |
|
| Thanks veha... VERY helpful info.
Back to the slingblade... how does it compare to the 'old' 8' Heavy Avid? (if you're familiar w/ that blank) |
|
| |
|
Posts: 90
| The Avid? I love that rod, going to tear mine down this winter and rebuild it to 8'9, I was not happy when they discontinued that rod. I would say that in terms of power they are close, but the main thing is how much quicker that sling blade acts. The Avid has a softer tip where you don't really start getting into the power right away due to the tip, where the Sling blade, you start to feel the power right away. The sling blade is going to feel stiffer due to the faster action in the tip, but the rod has the ability to let you put way more power into hooksets or while fighting a fish. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Hold on. Either we are not using terminology the same... or we are talking about different rods.
The entire reason I am looking for a new rod is because I am not happy with my 8' Heavy action AVID. I had previously retired this rod, but started using it again last year to help with fishing Pounders for extended periods of time. This rod is very stiff and has virtually NO TIP ACTION in my opinion. Basically, an 8 foot pool cue. Casts the pounders great.... but absolutely horrible for surviving "the big heavies" created when a truly big fish starts to headshake. Thus, my 8' Heavy Avid is now retired and is FOR SALE in 2009.
I want to replace that rod with either the Sling Blade or Big Dawg. Thus, my questions regarding their "actions". I want as soft of a tip as possible yet a powerful enough rod to cast those big, heavy lures. Can the Sling Blade do it???? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 231
| jlong - 1/13/2009 2:51 PM
I want to replace that rod with either the Sling Blade or Big Dawg. Thus, my questions regarding their "actions". I want as soft of a tip as possible yet a powerful enough rod to cast those big, heavy lures. Can the Sling Blade do it????
jlong,
If you're completely set on St. Croix, then yes.....IMO the Sling Blade would would "do it". From reading what you're looking for in this stick, I would encourage again to look in to having a Calstar built. The nice thing about the Calstar is the blank comes in 8,8 1/2,9' (no extendors needed).
Steve Jonesi could probably better explain this. I know he's experimented with every blank/manufacturer under the sun. LOL
Chas
Edited by Chas 1/13/2009 3:12 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 90
| We are talking about the same blank, my rod is built out to 8'6 right now so it acts differently then your 8ft the tip is much softer being longer. Every rod type does have a range of lighter and softer actions so it also very well could be that we have rods with different actions. I loved my Avid for mag dawgs but it killed me when I was casting the pounders all weekend, but didn't have issues fighting fish.
Can the Sling Blade do it????-Yes Is the tip soft enough??? I don't think it is what you are looking for as it is not as soft (spongy might be a better description) as the avid that I am used to, |
|
| |
|
| jlong I gotta agree... I sold my avid. Way too stiff. Sounds like I can scratch the slingblade off my list. I can't believe st. croix thinks you need a rod that stiff to throw double 10's. I think I'm going to go w/ a steel 20 for big blades and possibly a steel 25 for big stuff. Have to get up to Thorne' soon. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 375
| just my opinion but maybe it is not st. croix that "thinks" that at all. possibly they got many opinions concerning the good vs. not so good aspects of existing rods that folks were using for db 10's and realized the majority wanted a rod that wouldn't load in the eight as much but could still throw them ok...? |
|
| |
|
| JLong, the sling blade rod is not built for pounders, it is built for double tens, so it is going to have a stiffer tip than you probably want. built for the pull of d10s at speed, hence the stiffer tip. It wasn't built for pounders so imo it's not the rod you want. If you want a rod that can load up, has a softer tip, but has lots of back bone for these giant fish you are targeting, then take the advice of others, do yourself a favor and look at the Calstars.
Sling blade blanks weren't built for pounders.
Try the Calstars, I bet it would be just what you want
|
|
| |
|
| So the big dawg has a softer tip than the slingblade? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 814
| Jason, I'll take some photo's of the calstar tonight and post them up so you can check it out.....if you are going to milwaukee show I'll be there on Sunday and would be willing to bring the calstar for you to check out if its what you migh want in a big pounder plastic rod.....Mike |
|
| |
|
| mskyhntr - 1/14/2009 4:16 PM
Jason, I'll take some photo's of the calstar tonight and post them up so you can check it out.....if you are going to milwaukee show I'll be there on Sunday and would be willing to bring the calstar for you to check out if its what you migh want in a big pounder plastic rod.....Mike I would interested in seeing these photos as well. Thanks |
|
| |
|
Posts: 814
| Jason here's the photo of the Calstar rod, the first 4 photo's are just some detail of the butt wrap and the handle, the next couple of pics are of me putting average pressure on the rod as most people do when checking action,where the blank loads etc. Then I hung a twinkie pounder off of it so you can see how the tip bends with the pounder attached, the last 2 photo's are of the 8 ft St Croix hvy avid. One is of me loading the rod and the other is with a walleye pounder hanging from it so you can tell the difference. I used this since you are familiar with it and I no longer have the big dawg rod, I sold it because it reminded me of the pool cues used back in the day just it was 9 feet long instead of 6 foot, the tip was way to stiff for my liking.
The Calstar is my big rubber rod and sucker rod, and trolling rod, It will do it all, I even threw the 2 pounder with it and it casted no problem, You can snap cast pounders with this all day. No need to worry about the lob cast, this blank was intended for saltwater use....you won't break it.
I hope this helps If you need any more help talk with Frank from Frank's Custom Rods he built it. here is his #1-630-309-8055 Again if your going to Milwaukee and are serious I'll bring it so you can check it out. I'll even let ya bomb cast a pounder in the parking lot if you would like( a used one of course) Mike
Attachments
----------------
 P1140001.JPG (105KB - 285 downloads)
P1140002.JPG (104KB - 193 downloads)
P1140003.JPG (87KB - 170 downloads)
P1140004.JPG (100KB - 134 downloads)
P1140006.JPG (48KB - 129 downloads)
P1140007.JPG (70KB - 198 downloads)
P1140008.JPG (82KB - 123 downloads)
P1140012.JPG (55KB - 112 downloads)
P1140013.JPG (86KB - 228 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 108
Location: Toronto, ON | Frank makes a great rod, no question. Which Calstar blank did he build the rod on? Thanks. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 231
| Mike, very sharp looking! If I knew how to post a pic, I would throw some pics up of the Calstar I just got from Frank. It would give some different ideas for grips (rear & fore). Again nice stick!
Chas |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4266
| Jason, I have them both and used both during Sept, Oct, and Nov of last year. They are both great rods, and were designed for specific applications. I took my Sling Blade and tried to see how far I could push it before my casts became lobs. The Sling Blade has a ton of backbone, but IMO it's tip is too soft for pounders. I used it with spinnerbaits up to 2 oz, and 11" Suzies, but that is a long way from the weight of a pounder. The Big Dawg has give in the tip, but it is in no way soft. The "tip" bends from the tip back to the fifth guide (about a foot), then after that the rest of the blank will give. The rod bends plenty when you are fighting a fish, but you can skim hammer handle pike right along the surface if you want. The power on the hook-set will impress you with both rods.
So, in answer to your question, if you want a rod for nothing else but Pounders, then you want the Big Dawg. The Sling Blade can handle just about everything else but Pounders.
Beav |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2089
| Frankie uses the Graphfighter(sp) blank from Calstar. The rod/blank is an absolute rocket launcher. My 9' er will do multiple duty as well. Trolling monster baits on Shield water, casting big rubber and an awesome sucker rod. Versatility at its finest. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | So neither of the St. Croix rods will load up anything like this?
Attachments
----------------
Tip Action.jpg (3KB - 128 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
| Which Calstar Grafighter blank is the one pictured above? There are quite a few different actions on their website. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | UGGHHH!
I've concluded it is impossible to purchase a rod without taking one for a Test Drive first. If that is the case, then it is almost impossible to purchase a newly released rod or a custom rod.
Although I am specifically looking for a St. Croix, these Calstar rods sound nice.... but without fishing with one first, the info I can find online is totally useless.
http://www.calstarrods.com/grafighter.htm
The photo thing is useful.... to me at least. If there was a standard way of showing how the rod loads up under a specific weight/pressure... perhaps the sale of custom rods and newly released rods would increase? I'm not going to fork out $300+ on a rod that MIGHT meet my needs.
Looks like I may have to make it to a show this winter to get my questions answered..... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 814
| So do I need to bring the calstar to Milwaukee???? Jason the calstar imo is the closest your going to get in a pounder rod with a soft tip with great backbone, the first 2 feet is fiberglass, very forgiving as you know, much slower in response compared to graphite, this really helps with the headshakes and boatside errors, as it is very easy to always keep the rod loaded. Then it blends to graphite thats where the backbone of this rod really helps, I think you need to see it for yourself and maybe take a couple of casts. Mike
Edited by mskyhntr 1/16/2009 10:14 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Which Calstar blank are you guys custom building on?
Which retail rod is getting the nod for big plastics?
http://www.charkbait.com/cs/csrodCalstar.htm
Edited by jlong 1/16/2009 10:53 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 401
| The Calstar blank is similar to the St Croix blend rod that was discontinued last year. It is the glass blend that offers more flex (load) at the tip. You will not get the same type action from a straight graphite rod that you get from glass. They are two different types of sticks.
If you are going to go with straight graphite St Croix is the best made. My opinion. They offer increased strength without just adding graphite.
Keith
Edited by Professional Edge 1/16/2009 12:17 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 4266
| Jason, RE: your sketch; I went downstairs and got both rods out and ran line through the eyes. Both rods bend like that, but it takes more force to make the Big Dawg do it. After that initial bend, the Sling Blade will continue to bend a bit farther down the blank, but the Big Dawg bends like that and then just gets harder and harder to pull without any real noticable flexing down the blank.
Beav |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Beav, thanks for the direct comparison. If most of the flex is in the tip, I'm hopeful the Big Dawg will meet my needs for both casting big baits AND fighting big fish.
I'm gunshy of tips that require too much force to fully load up... cause then they unload VERY quickly. When a 40 pounder squares off and starts those "big heavy" headshakes.... you can watch the tip load and unload between shakes. That is the scenario I am most fearful of... as its cost me two memorable fish in recent seasons.
Now... if I put trust in whomever designed these rods... I'm assuming its safe to think the SlingBlade is made for big blades and the BigDawg is made for big, heavy, cumbersome lures. My fear is that those designers focused on the aspect of CASTING those lures and not so much on landing the fish afterwards. Perhaps I'm just paranoid? Its still a leap of faith... but I'm most likely going with the Big Dawg.
Thanks everyone for your feedback. |
|
| |
|
| here's pics of the Sling Blade:
- pounder
- two pounder
- moderate hand pressure
it's a fast tip (not extra-fast) that takes what i'd call a medium amount of pressure to get into the power of the rod. i haven't cast it ever, but from the way it acts on dry land i think it should be plenty strong without sacrificing forgiveness.
hope it helps.
Attachments
----------------
005.JPG (174KB - 154 downloads)
006.JPG (147KB - 344 downloads)
008.JPG (177KB - 161 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 814
| Nice Pics Mike, you beat me to the punch,I thought I would take a couple more since I got a few requests for photo's like Mike's. After looking at these photo's and the Slingblade photo's from Mike you can come to the conclusion that these are pretty close tip wise, except the calstar really is designed for the big rubber where the sling blade is not. Look at the bend in the calstar when I put a little load on it. The big dawg is much stiffer in the tip. 1st 2 photo's are of 2 pounders hanging freely and the last one is with minimal pressure to show how much flex the tip has. mike
Edited by mskyhntr 1/18/2009 8:21 PM
Attachments
----------------
P1180001.JPG (70KB - 190 downloads)
P1180002.JPG (70KB - 144 downloads)
P1180003.JPG (68KB - 199 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Now that's what I'm talking about. Hanging a 2 lb. weight from each rod allows you to make an "apples to apples" comparison for how the tips load up.
Looks like the Calster loads up more to my liking.
The Sling Blade is stiffer than I expected... and I can only assume that the Big Dawg is even stiffer.
Does anyone have an 8'6" Okuma they'd be willing to take a photo of for a low budget comparison? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Jason, here are some pictures of the Okuma 8'6" XH.
The 1st is with 1 pound of weight hanging freely (took me two baits to get to an even pound).
The 2nd is with 2 pounds of weight freely hanging (2, 12 oz Curly Sues and an 8 oz Super D).
The 3rd is me putting quite a bit of pressure on the rod with 10 pounds of weight on the floor. If I was holding the handle horizontal in this picture, I think you would see a lot more of a round, parabolic curve to the rod.
I'm not sure if the Okuma is quite what you are looking for in your pounder rod. It will certainly flex, which makes casting easy, but it doesn't get into a real strong backbone for quite a length down the blank. It's still a very nice rod that works great for lots of different baits, but I don't think it's what YOU are looking for right now. There is also a tradeoff for working heavier baits hard. With too soft of a tip (and having it continue too far into the rod), it can get tiring trying to really lay into the baits.
How do those with the Calstar blank feel about that? Looks like the tip is pretty flexible. Does it firm up quickly enough to make working big baits hard easily? Also, is the physical weight of the rod light enough to not feel heavy at the end of the day?
curleytail
Edited by curleytail 1/19/2009 12:21 PM
Attachments
----------------
rod bend 16 oz.jpg (151KB - 145 downloads)
rod bend 2 pounds.jpg (175KB - 141 downloads)
rod bend 10 lb.jpg (171KB - 153 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 743
| We now have pics of 3 different rods . Could someone with a Steel 20 and 25 post some pics. I'd really like to see how the Steel would compare to these 3.
Thanks,
Kurt |
|
| |
|
Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Jason
Another rod to look at is the Tica 8'6" XH, Lee has been using them for his plastics, and I bought one but most used it for a 10 setup, I threw some dawgs on it this fall and it was good, but I am looking to go to 9'. I love my allstar XH, but no longer in production for dawgs.
Troyz |
|
| |
|
Posts: 814
| Kurt I also have a 25 and am having a 20 built as I speak.....The 25 isn't really for pounders, it could probably throw them but since the 9 footer has an extension it in its not recommended.its more of a mag dawg rod and also for ripping 10'' jakes or grandma's I also use the 25 for 10 and 13 blades, I burn them without a problem, without overloading the rod. The 20 is more of a medium heavy made for reg dawgs,spinnerbaits,topwater,cranks,smaller twitch baits,smaller tails and also for slow rolling 10's etc.
Curlytail:
The calstar is really soft in the fiberglass section(the first 2 feet or so) then where it meets the graphite is where the power begins, the last photo is about as much as the rod will bend without extreme force. This is why imo its the best big rubber rod out right now....its got a soft tip for great casting and keeping fish pinned. And also has the power to put the screws to them when ripping big rubber.
The Calstar is heavier than the St. Croix I am not sure how much, but when looking for a big rubber rod that should be the last thing on your mind...2 oz really isn't that much imo. When throwing pounders I don't think you'll notice it..... I have mine set up with a luna 300. I am for sure a St Croix with a 700 te or garcia 7000 would be heavier if that makes sense. Any more ?'s feel free to ask, is anyone going to the milwaukee show? I'll be there on Sunday, I know Jonesi will be there on Sat, and he has one also....I'll see if he will bring his if anyone is interested, his is built exactly like mine. Mike |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Can anyone post a picture of the Big Dawg with 2 pounders on it to compare to Lambeau's pics of the Sling Blade? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 136
Location: Chicago | 9' big dawg
Attachments
----------------
baits 016.jpg (44KB - 540 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Thanks, Rob, for post the Big Dawg. Did you have a custom 9' built?
I'm beginning to think this method may have some flaws. Here is my 9' Lamiglass with a pair of pounders hung on the line followed by my 8' Heavy Avid. They look similar in the photos yet are radically different rods.
Hmmmm.......
Attachments
----------------
Lamiglass 2 lb.JPG (98KB - 536 downloads)
Avid 2 lb.JPG (95KB - 144 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 136
Location: Chicago | Yes, from Frank Bottiliergi ( Franks Custom Rods) with a 17'' handle. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 743
| jlong - 1/19/2009 8:14 AM
Now that's what I'm talking about. Hanging a 2 lb. weight from each rod allows you to make an "apples to apples" comparison for how the tips load up.
Looks like the Calster loads up more to my liking.
The Sling Blade is stiffer than I expected... and I can only assume that the Big Dawg is even stiffer.
Does anyone have an 8'6" Okuma they'd be willing to take a photo of for a low budget comparison?
I think St Croix always under rates their rods. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 136
Location: Chicago | Just by reading the posts i think i'm sold on the Calstar's 9'ers you guys had made up. The versatility being the sticking point. With the glass blend on the blank can i assume this thing will work great in cold temps. Can we put another check on this rods versatility. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | I don't know Jason, to me it looks like the Lamiglass has a softer action/lighter power than the Avid. Looks like the tails of the Pounders are just resting on the floor in both pics, but it looks like you have a few more inches of line out with the Avid, providing that the leader length is the same.
I don't know if we'll see drastic differences with only two pounds of weight. You're probably putting at least 5 pounds on a fish at all times (doesn't seem like much, but put a scale on you're line - it's surprising how little weight you are putting on a rod if you are putting a good bend in it).
I think this is still a decent test. To be the best, we would probably want to look at bends with weight from 1-8 or 10 pounds, and it wouldn't hurt to measure the deflection of the rod tip either...but not all volunteers might be willing to do this...
curleytail |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | jaycbs74 - 1/20/2009 11:05 PM
Just by reading the posts i think i'm sold on the Calstar's 9'ers you guys had made up. The versatility being the sticking point. With the glass blend on the blank can i assume this thing will work great in cold temps. Can we put another check on this rods versatility.
Graphite doesn't get brittle in cold weather, often cold weather is blamed for a break but its usually the technique (trolling, quick-set sucker fishing, snap-casting 2 pounders) that causes graphite rods to break.
I like the Big Dawg for the big rubber, the tip IS extra fast but the rod loads butt to tip on the cast like a rod is supposed to, and the tip allows me to rip through weeds better. |
|
| |
|
| Flambeuski - the guys at TB's agree w/ re: cold temps and graphite... it's the abuse, not the cold temps.
Jlong - I really don't think you'll be happy w/ either of the st. croix options. I was at thornes yesterday and compared a bunch of blanks. The slingblade is at least as stiff in the tip as your 8' avid. The big dawg even stiffer. And they both have faster actions than the avid, so overall they have more power and less flex. I looked at the steels, the 25 would be a great mag dawg rod, but not a full time pounder rod imo, at least if you're looking to snap cast pounders. It will load up way too much to do that. However the steels have a reputation for excellent durability so I think the rod would hold up to the abuse. I rate it's power as slightly more than a heavy diamondback and slightly less than your 8' avid. The steel 25 would definitely perform how you like on the hookset and fight. I used to have an 8' avid and had the same dislikes as you, I've never handled a calstar but if you're looking for a dedicated pounder rod this might be a good choice.
As far as the photo comparisons, I think everybody needs to set up the rods so just the handle is supported. Depending on how the blank rests it will change how the rod loads... i.e. your pics have the door knob halfway up the blank. Just an idea. |
|
| |
|
| p.s. I'm not knocking the st croix stuff, they are great blanks but we all have personal preferences. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | To simplify a now lengthy and complicated post.
I'm looking for a rod with enough power to cast large, cumbersome lures such as a Pounder and enough tip action (soft, flexible tip) to hold onto a big fish during battle.
The challenge is finding consistent and useful information to make comparisons. Relying on people's opinions just won't work... as everyone has different preferences, interpretations, etc.
Photos help... but obviously are not fool proof.
Access to custom blanks and newly released stock rods is very limited, so getting your hands on one to play with BEFORE you buy it is challenging.
So... if its gonna take me three tries at $300 each... that's a $900 investment that would take almost 9 months to complete (3 months for each rod). So... maybe... if I'm lucky... I can find the perfect rod for me by next October and after a significant financial investment at a time when the overall economy is in the tank.
Nice. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 743
| Aren't you glad that in today's musky fishing world we have such a variety rods,reels,lures ,and line to choose from. It makes choosing the right products for you such a simple procedure and expensive proposition. LOL |
|
| |
|
| I'm looking for a rod with enough power to cast large, cumbersome lures such as a Pounder and enough tip action (soft, flexible tip) to hold onto a big fish during battle.
how do you work those big plastics IN the water? that's a huge factor as well.
some rods might have the soft tip to hold fish, but that can impede really ripping or jerking the lure but allow for long pulls, etc.
what kind of hooksets do you use? quick wrist snaps relying on the rod action, or full body turns that access more of the rod's power?
the mix of rod action/power may be a different for good casting, good action, good hooksets, and forgiveness during the fight.
personally, i'm not a snap-caster, so i can tolerate a slower action rod. butttt, i set hooks with a snap, so i need a faster action rod. annnd, i like to work the lures hard to again a faster action. buuuttt, i want a forgiving tip during the fight.
sigh...no perfect tool exists to give me all those things.
most important to me is lure action and hookset, so i prefer a faster action. (thus for double-10s the Sling Blade was a good choice for me; with Pounders i actually like something with a slower action so i don't overload the rod when casting so i use a totally different rod.) i absolutely hate it when casting a lure that's too light for the rod and the action "snaps" the rod tip straight mid-cast. matching rod to lure is important.
Jason, it sounds like you emphasize forgiveness over other factors, so probably a look for a rod with more moderate action. that might mean compromising with a rod that loads up further down the blank than in yoru diagram.
as Jason notes, we would offer people very different advice on the "right" rod for any particular lure. despite what you may hear, there is no one right answer for anything, but rather what is the best match for your use.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Mike.
You are correct and I agree that everyone's opinions/needs will vary.
However, I know what I'm looking for but can't seem to find a good way to be confident that what I buy will deliver it.
On paper (specs) there isn't a rod out there that can deliver what I'm looking for. I want a 9 foot rod with a Medium Heavy action rated to 16 oz. Haven't found a rod with those specs yet. Thus, I'm looking for the next best thing... which is where we run into problems.
Since I already have a 9 foot rod that is on the softer side of the spectrum.... I'm gonna roll dice and opt for a rod on the stiffer side of the spectrum. Unfortunately, I can predict already that it will cost me a few BIG fish in the future. |
|
| |
|
| so if you say peoples opinions won't work why did you even post this thread? that is all you are going to get. Unless you yourself physically go out and try each one what else are you going on? Pictures of lures hanging off the tip? that has it's flaws for sure...
not sure what the point of this thread was if, in the end you say you won't buy anything based on opinion. what else do you have to go buy when buying a rod short of holding/feeling/casting it? I've bought plenty of rods based on someones input and suggestion and they have all performed to my liking.
imo you would like the Calstar, but again, you'd have to see it to figure that out. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 375
| just call keith at proedge and describe what you want the rod to do and he will assist you in sorting through the maze of rods out there today. i "thought" i knew exactly which croix legend i "wanted / needed" until i spoke to him and he "guided" me to the right rod for the applications i wanted it for. and by the way, the one "i thought" would be perfect turned out to be way off the mark!
Edited by STUSHSKY 1/21/2009 2:32 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 76
Location: Bartlett IL | Look at how the muskie rod market has changed. Two years ago the St Croix XXXH Premier was the be-all and end-all for throwing pounders and two pounders. Do a search of all posts for 'XXXH' in the Tackle and Equipment Forum to see what I'm talking about. I have never built one because of what Steve Jonesi said to me. He said, "I'll pole vault with that rod before I'd fish with it. It's too stiff." I wonder how many are sitting in a corner collecting dust.
If you asked me my opinion two years ago or today it would be the same answer. The blank to use for a pounder rod would be hands down the Calstar Grafighter. There are many new rods/blanks available now but few designed to handle a 14 oz. bait. The tip of the Calstar is not too stiff and the butt section has enough power to handle any muskie we would come across. Again, this is my opinion. There are many different views as you can see with 58 replies on a thread that started out being about St. Croix Legends.
If anyone wants to get in touch with me, send me an email or PM with your phone number. I’ll give you a call and we can chat.
|
|
| |
|
| Great points... in everything new there will always be an over-reaction. The XXXHF is a great example. Long rods are another. When I started musky fishing I bought a couple of 7' MH rods. Everyone else was using 5'6" to 6'0", maybe 6'6" was a "long" one. Everyone told me my rods were too long. Now I use 8'0" - 8'6" and some people tell me my rods are too short. |
|
| |
|
| This has been a very entertaining and educational thread. Lots of opinions , almost like a Ford/Chevy debate. I still believe experience is the best teacher. 2009 will be my 34 th season chasing muskies. I have tried/used/played with lots of different rods over the years and have been using custom muskie rods since the early 80's. Muskie anglers are catching up to the bass and walleye guys very quickly in that we are now using TECHNIQUE SPECIFIC rods. Many rods are versatile, but we're all looking for the perfect tool. I get multiple e-mails and pm's weekly asking my opinions on rods for certain applications. I love talking about rods and my preferences and experiences. I've learned a ton over the years from working in the industry and asking lots of questions. My friend Pat Smith from Thorne Bros. has forgotten more about rods than most will ever know. I learned a great deal from him while I worked there and have "wasted" a lot of money over the years. In my opinion, a muskie rod has 3 distinct purposes. First , casting the bait. The "correct" action will eliminate much of the stress/fatigue associated with casting heavy baits for any length of time, as will proper mechanics of casting itself. Second, the rod has to be able to work the bait you're casting. You can't work a jerkbait(and set the hook) with a MH bucktail rod. Makes sense.Third, and perhaps the most often overlooked , is fighting the fish. Rods with the right action will "forgive" mistakes made by the angler and help keep fish pinned. If the rod is too stiff, the fish can create slack(just a little is all it takes) to throw the bait. So , where do we go from here? Gather as much info you can before making a purchase. Talk to reputable people who KNOW rods. People who use them on a daily basis or close to it. Talk to as many different people as possible and for Gods sake, don't take everything you read on the internet as gospel. Do your due diligence. And then call Frankie. Hahahahahaha. 'Sconnie Steve |
|
| |
|
Posts: 375
| with all the great videos that i have watched here on this site i think some interesting ones would be to see "proper" snap casting techniques vs. lobbing of baits using various types / brands of rods and their actions. this may give folks out there a better insight as to what certain rods can "handle" when properly designed and used while making the "buying-blind" process much less stressful especially with the big bucks some of the rods are bringing these days! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Jonesi sums it up perfectly. THANKS STEVE for finally speaking up.
I think #3... fighting the fish.... should be the highest priority of the three rod selection criteria... not the lowest. Especially when a Technique Specific rod is targeting the largest fish you might catch in a given season. Thus, I'd rather compromise my back muscles than lose the fish of a lifetime.
Obviously we seek the perfect balance of all 3 elements Jonesi mentions..... however when it comes to these big, clumsy lures getting so popular... its quite obvious tom me that the PERFECT balance hasn't been achieved.... yet. Well... perhaps its safer to say that there isn't agreement amongst the masses yet (heh heh heh). Thus, its still up to the angler to choose what aspect they want to compromise.... which is what makes purchasing a new rod both fun and frustrating.
I learned a lot about what options are out there to consider. Hopefull others did to. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 231
| Chas - 1/13/2009 3:07 PM
Steve Jonesi could probably better explain this. I know he's experimented with every blank/manufacturer under the sun. LOL
Chas
I was wondering what took you so long, Steve. LOL! YES..... This has been a imformative & entertaning thread. Ahh, the the days of fishing for panfish with a beetlespin, so much easier. LOL
Chas
|
|
| |
|
| is the calstar a heavy action :-) |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4266
| Steve, I just got a correspondence from St Croix telling me that the engineers and the company of course, just got some real state of the art design equipment, and that we can expect even more great things from St Croix in the very near future.
As far as the listing of priorities in a rod design, it seems that every year we are getting closer and closer to the ultimate in fishing rods. I own every rod in the TL muskie line, and I must say that they are not just designed for castability, though that is what struck me the first time that I used every one, they all are designed for fighting fish also. I wish that I could say that I had the pleasure to fight four foot fish on every rod in the line, but I only had them for the end of the season. All I can say is that they are the best rods that I have ever hand in my hands..........boy did that come out wrong 
Beav |
|
| |
|
Posts: 76
Location: Bartlett IL | Guest
The Calstar blanks that I have used for muskie rods are a heavy power/fast action blank.
I know there has been a great deal of discussion about the different blanks and their characteristics but Lamiglas has done a good job explaining the different terminology.
(action and power explained.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
action and power explained.jpg (155KB - 158 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Thanks for the image, Frank! That is exactly what I was seeking.... only from St. Croix to help compare their line-up. |
|
| |
|
| how much for a custon made calstar rod 9' |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2089
| Depends who makes it, but I THINK Frank is around $350 with Fuji Hardloy guides. Of course there are upgrades as well. Steve |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | J, I am assuming you have used the 9' Lami and didn't care for it? I'm interested in knowing as I thought the rod was pretty good for throwing the pounder. Then again I haven't used anything else really. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Travis,
Yes, I have the 9' Lamiglas Ricky Stick (see the photo I posted above showing how it loads up). I like the rod and love the tip action for fighting fish, however its only rated 1-4 oz..... so I'm not comfortable lobbing 14 oz. lures with it for fear of stressing the rod. I use it for lighter Mag Dawgs, traditional bucktails and such, but not for Pounders.
If the rod was was rated higher... perhaps I'd already have what I'm looking for? Should I ignore the rating and creaking line guides when I cast heavy lures... or continue looking for something else? Thus, why I started this thread. |
|
| |
|
| how willthis rod handle mag dawgs, is it to stiff
how does the calstar handle big cranks and magdawgsof mackay |
|
| |
