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Posts: 48
Location: Twin Cities | I have just purchased my first plastics (SuperDs) and wonder if I should be using something other than the 7 strand leaders I have. Are these the type of baits a single strand should be used?
Thanks |
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| I use Flouro with mine to avoid kinks. When the imfamous "dawg ball" shows up it will ruin wire. |
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Posts: 1237
Location: South Portsmouth, KY | Stealth tackle fluorocarbon leaders work awsome. i use them for just about every lure now. |
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Posts: 309
Location: Elgin IL | Has anybody used Tyger leader line? Looks very interesting the way they twist and fuse the line,no bulky knot. I saw the demonstration at the Chicago musky show |
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Posts: 547
Location: Oshkosh | I use Stealth Fluorocarbon leaders for everything also. http://www.stealthtackle.net
Peter |
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Posts: 91
| Yes, fluorocarbon gets my vote. |
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Posts: 375
| would 130lb fluoro be a good all-around choice or would say going up to 180lb because of it's added stiffness be that much better for jerks / gliders / big heavy plastics? |
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Posts: 48
Location: Twin Cities | What is a "dawg ball"? |
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Posts: 717
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | A dawg ball is when you throw out the SuperD or Bulldawg, and the back hook catches the leader mid-air. Your cast is fouled, and you'll wind up towing the bait back sideways. When throwing these size plastics, you can't just "chuck" them out there like a bucktail. It's more of a smooth overhand lob cast.
IF YOU GET A "DAWG BALL", BE SURE TO CHECK OVER YOUR FLOUROCARBON FOR ANY NICKS FROM THE HOOKS THAT WOULD WEAKEN ITS STRENGTH!!!!
Edited by JimtenHaaf 1/10/2009 12:27 PM
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| Stealth tackle leaders are as high quality of leaders as you will find. To answer the question on # test, 130# works great on plastics, jerks, gliders. I think both sizes preform similar in my opinion. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Well, call me crazy, but I make my own single strand leaders out of 174 pound solid American Fishing Wire. I use them for EVERY bait I throw. I know a lot of people use Flouro with no problems, but I just haven't been able to make myself start using it yet. If I do, I'll probably go with the 180 pound.
Anyway, I have had a few Dawgballs (actually Super D and Curly Sue balls), and I wouldn't say that they wrecked my single strand leaders. They might bend them a little, but they aren't wrecked. If they do get bent up too much, take the 2 minutes (or less), and 10 cents to put new wire on the snap and swivel (replace the snaps relatively often though - for any leader).
curleytail |
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | I only use Stealth Fluorocarbon leaders. http://www.stealthtackle.net
One week in June I got well over 30 pike in Canada (7 over 40") using one Stealth leader. It is still on my rig and you can't even tell its been used. A+++ on the entire leader from the qulaity of the floro to the crimps, etc. Very well built.
I do have some wire leaders my buddy built and they are nice too but I just like the Stealth floro after using them about 18 months ago and have not gone back.
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Posts: 1058
Location: Medford, WI | Another vote for Stealth leaders. As mentioned above, you can use them a long time without needing to replace them...just as long as you make sure to switch snaps every so often.
-Jake |
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Posts: 231
| I'll throw another vote for Stealth leaders. The best I've ever used, bar none!! After I saw the abuse Mike Hulbert put the leaders through, & how well they held up, it was a no brainer. Plus....... John (the owner) is a great guy!
Chas
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Location: SE Wisconsin | Neil Barnett turned me on to Seaguar flourocarbon, suggesting 80# was as thick as I'd need it claiming between 30/40 muskie without needing to tie a new one. I took his advise, and used number four snaps and barrel swivels (to avoid line twist when I switch to blades, etc.) and was 100% a believer. Now, I kow Stealth makes their flourocarbon leaders out of Seaguar, too, so maybe that's where he got his influence. . . After all, their the same darn thing, just made on my own, which I trust a little more.
I think I may go a little heavier this season for one reason, that is the snap back or flex of the 80# is a little to fogiving and tends to recoil back into the hooks once in a while on the sweep. . . I little thicker flourocarbon may be just the ticket.
Edited by Sam Ubl 1/14/2009 11:59 AM
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | i dont know who neil barnett is, but we (stealth)use seaguar because when we tested every brand we could get our hands on, seaguar held up the best. also seaguar does not make mono they make fluorocarbon. there is a difference. but i am sure you know that. |
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| Sam,
Your leaders are not the same as Stealth Leaders.
First of all 80 lb is to light to use. You will have problems. Secondly, barrel swivels are junk and again will up your chances of having failure, third a #4 snap is to small to use as well.
I will only use 130-150 Stealth Flouro Leaders, best leader on the market.
HULBERT
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| Mr Hulbert,
Why do you claim barrell swivels are junk, don't some in fact have ratings of 150 lb +. Aren't there some made by quality manufacurers? Do you even know what you are talking about when you make a blanket statement like "barrel swivels are junk".
You might want to rethink that. There are some good barrel swivels that are made by the same manufacturers of the bb swivels used by many today that have lb test ratings higher and in a smaller overall size than the bb swivels with the same size and these are not "junk" as you claim.
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| I am talking from EXPERIENCE...200 days a year on the water teaches you alot more than what a "pound test" rating will.
I have seen them break, have some of my other guide friends also tell me about fish they lost due to barrel swivels breaking.
real world experiences and knowlege, not what I read on the back of a package or the internet.
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| so ball bearing swivels never break or fail either? never?
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Posts: 2089
| Stealth in 130 and 150. For everything. |
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Location: SE Wisconsin | muskihntr - 1/14/2009 10:21 AM
seaguar does not make mono they make fluorocarbon. there is a difference. but i am sure you know that.
Yes, thank you for the correction.
Let's not turn this thread into Lake-Link. . . 80Lb. hasn't failed me, however, like I said, I want to move to something stiffer, not necessarily heavier, although I'm sure that aspect wont hurt at all. Barrel swivels, well, they haven't broke yet, but I'm glad that was brought up. . . It will be a consideration this season. As far as the snap size, i agree on some levels with #4's being small, but that's how it works for me. I use 4's and 5's and catch fish and my baits run great.
i dont know who neil barnett is.
Top 3 in LAPP standings for the WMT the last few years and overall a very modest and generous successful musky tournament fisherman. . . For what it's worth.
Edited by Sam Ubl 1/14/2009 2:06 PM
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| Saltwater fishermen I know use barrel swivels with little to no failure. Thousands of fish. |
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| real world experiences and knowlege, not what I read on the back of a package or the internet.
of course Mike, you're posting your real world experiences on the internet...
i'm not saying, i'm just saying.
yes, lots of experience is a valuable tool, and taking advice from people who have that experience is a good idea. at the same time, broad generalizations don't always apply to every single situation.
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Location: SE Wisconsin | Back to the original question, Flourocarbon has a lower stretch and more sensitivity than regular monofilament lines, so for a clear leader, consider buying or making flourocarbon. I personally prefer it over 7 strand or solid wire leaders when throwing plastic or rubber in particular, as you asked, because of not only the low vis rate, but the overall weight. Although flourocarbon does sink since it is heavier than water, it does so at a much slower speed than the wire leaders. So on the retrieve, when you make your sweeps, the weight of the leader isn't as responsible for the head drop of say a dawg or super D, which potentially creates an erradic flare off to one side or another on the sweep.
Edited by Sam Ubl 1/14/2009 12:43 PM
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| I've been making my own 180 lb fluoro leaders for years ...use them for all baits...no problems, zero failures..many friends use mine as well, somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 fish total on them...
I also make my own sucker rigs and use barrel swivels made by Eagle Claw, 230 lb test, and in my 'real world' experiences they have not failed nor do I ever expect them to. Eagle Claw would not put out a product that is 'junk' as stated above....at least imo.
why do i use them? they are smaller than bb swivels with a higher lb test and cost a lot less for a sucker rig that is what I was after...
for bait leaders bb swivels as I wanted something that spins a bit smoother with resistance...
blanket statements are funny. |
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | I typically use 100# Berkly Vanish Floro and haven't had an issue since I started using it. I can't remember the size of the staylocks, but they are a standards size that most are familiar with (7 maybe?). I keep going back and forth between tying and crimping but haven't had a failure with either method. Plus the Vanish has held up well for me. That being said, Seagar is the leader in floro from what it looks like, and this year I'll be making some leaders in the 130# range as well.
I also use both barrel and BB swivels depending on what baits I'm throwing. No issues in I can't tell you how many years using either. But that's just one dude.
I have been broken off on 80# floro though, but that was a bad tooth shot at the side of the boat when bringing a fish to the bag. That being said, it broke, and I immediately started using 100 #. |
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Posts: 375
| although i have only been viewing this website for a little over a year, i have gained an incredible amount of valuable information concerning musky fishing. how? from reading other peoples "OPINIONS" and their "PERSONAL EXPERIENCES" on all aspects of this great sport. i have tried / purchased many things that i have read about here with some working "FOR ME" while others did not work "FOR ME". for those things that have not worked "FOR ME" i do not feel i have the right to bash them and will not since they have and will continue to be the "best things since apple pie" for others now and for many years to come. until the day comes that folks be upfront somehow on every single post they make concerning a particular product as to whether they ever received anything free or discounted from that manufacturer's product, whoever it may be, then we all need to take "bashing" with a grain of salt and possibly give a little more thought concerning the "particular folks" who choose to bash for whatever reason. personally, i prefer the old "if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything at all"... |
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Posts: 8782
| Cheap terminal tackle will fail.
Cheap snaps, cheap swivels, cheap split rings, cheap hooks...
I think what hulbert is referring to is the barrel swivels with the twisted wire loops on the end, and yes, they're crap unless you buy really good ones.
Ball bearing swivels are not the same thing as a traditional barrel swivel, though. I've never seen or heard of a (good quality) ball bearing swivel breaking.
Here's a good illustration:
http://www.sampoinc.com/
Snaps? I've had a few open and a few break. Never broken a stay-lok.
Edited by esoxaddict 1/14/2009 4:16 PM
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| Eagle Claw barrel swivels are not "cheap" they just don't "cost" as much as bb swivels. 230 lbers I use are quality imo.
of course, there are cheap barrel swivels, just like I'm sure there are even some cheap bb swivels made out there too....
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Posts: 48
Location: Twin Cities | Wow - I didn't know there was so much passion surrounding this subject! Thanks for all the advice, sounds like I need to pick up some flouro leaders at the show. |
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Location: SE Wisconsin | LOL - Nice. Yeah, welcome to our world. |
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Posts: 202
| iamaddicted,
To get back to your question that started this whole post. For the last couple of years I have been using fluorocarbon leaders made by Gene Seuring of Leaders and Lures, he is using the best components on the market and also does very extensive pull testing to find out what is the best material tou use. I mostly use his 130lb fluorocarbon leaders and have also used is 21 strand 100lb leader which as a lot of flexiblity. Hope this helps. If you have any further questions please feel free to email me at [email protected]
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Posts: 91
| Just how many Sampo B' bearings are being used compared to the lower price imported ones? Betcha not many. |
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Leaders for big plastics