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Posts: 76
| I'll start of by telling you I fish a series of lakes connected by a canal system. Max depthg 27ft. The biggest lake is 700acres with the rest around 200. The lake is stocked every other year and there is no natural reproduction. In as little as 5 maybe 6 years ago the muskie fishing was great. Caught a lot of big fish with occasional multiple fish days. Almost everytime out you would at least see a fish.
Anyway the muskie fishing has really gone down the crapper these last few years and one thing I have noticed is the carp are everywhere. These carp ain't small either they're anywhere from 5 to 15lb submarines, maybe even bigger. Another thing that I noticed is the water clarity has gone down the tubes. What used to be clear water is now very stained at times and was told the carp have a lot to do with this.
My question is, are these carp negatively effecting(smothering) the population or are they providing so much food the muskie just aren't biting? Any ideas? |
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Posts: 406
Location: Stones throw away...finally!! | Other than the canals, this sounds exactly like a central Iowa lake. Fishing has definately declined over the last few years and I know that there is an over abundance of rough fish (carp, quilback, etc.), as I have helped with DNR net counts in past years and the nets are full of them. I would be curious as to what anyone else seems to think as this is a problem for me as well. |
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Location: Twin Cities | I'd get some carp colored baits and follow them around... |
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Posts: 547
Location: Oshkosh | Follow them around with carp colored baits and get a bow and take up bowfishing, its a blast!
Peter |
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Posts: 170
Location: Chicagoland | I know an effect carp have on muskies... they make them fatties! The carp population is probably at its peak, but it will level out. As the abundance of prey goes up, the number of predators will also rise. |
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Posts: 1237
Location: South Portsmouth, KY | The cave run muskies evidently dont mind! lol After seeing that the new state record had a 24 inch carp in its stomach!
Edited by muskie_man 12/25/2008 9:14 AM
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| What up meat wad carp help.must be another problem.B |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | I would highly doubt the carp are "smothering" the muskies. They can easily coexist in a system and are forage for many muskie populations. The WI River system is loaded with carp and muskies do feed on the young carp. I would suspect that it is more of an issue of poor survivability rates for the stocked fish and possibly over harvesting of legal sized fish. I would check with your DNR and see what type of info they can give you on the particular body of water. |
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Location: Chicagoland | yo! |
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Posts: 83
| The water quality might have gone bad. Too many nutrients enter the watershed. it can cause alga blooms, and that can deplete the waters dissolved oxygen. Carp are one of the few fish that can thrive in those conditions. Without predators like the musky to keep populations in check, the population explodes. What else have you noticed with the rest of the fish populations in the lake? |
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Posts: 76
| jimkinner - 12/25/2008 9:26 PM
The water quality might have gone bad. Too many nutrients enter the watershed. it can cause alga blooms, and that can deplete the waters dissolved oxygen. Carp are one of the few fish that can thrive in those conditions. Without predators like the musky to keep populations in check, the population explodes. What else have you noticed with the rest of the fish populations in the lake?
According to spring test nettings by the Game and Fish dept. walleyes seem to be on a downward trend. While muskie fishing I used to catch pike and smallies on a regular basis that also doesn't happen anymore.
About ten years ago I used to ice fish this lake religiously for walleyes and it was nothing short of outstanding. In the span of about 5 years the fishing would get poorer and poorer till I finally quite ice fishing it all together. |
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| Ice fishing could be your answer. |
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Posts: 221
Location: ohio | Thats a good question, I never really thought about it but I have noticed a decline in one of my favorite lakes also, But like you stated, The Carp are on a upswing. I know musky eat carp. But some of these things are Huge..one of my favorite spring time bays are now polluted with these things. |
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Location: The desert | Carp effect on Musky, they get bigger. |
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Posts: 212
| Boom in baitfish=decline in fishing catches |
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Posts: 83
| If all the other game fish in the system suffered the same decline, I would be really suspicious of the water quality itself. You mentioned that the clarity changed greatly, and test netting showed a large decline in the walleye population.
Game fish need fairly clean water with a good amount of dissolved oxygen. Carp, and a few other rough fish can live in water that is of much lower quality. I've heard a carp can even endure periods of very low dissolved oxygen by gulping a little surface air. If you forgot to change the water in a goldfish bowl, you might see it.
So, most of the game fish, particularly the larger ones, might have died. A new source of nutrients may have found its way into the system. A very wet year can cause septic problems at lakefront cottages, or a change in local farming practices can introduce nitrates into watersheds. There may have been a time durring the last few summers when the lake really smelled, I bet.
You can kill a lot more fish by having your lawn sprayed than using a vertical hold, in my opinion. |
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| carp destroy the place where the musky spawn |
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Posts: 485
Location: On my favorite lake! | Carp do have a effect in some instances. If there are a problem bass anglers , walleye anglers will also notice a major reduction in catches. Ask around and see if others are noticing. If the carp are exploding in population and attacking areas where they haven't been you will see a decrease in fish. |
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| 0723 - 12/25/2008 12:09 PM
What up meat wad carp help.must be another problem.B
LMAO - 0723. Like someone said Meatwad, the WI river is loaded with big carp and I've never seen it as being a problem. Last spring I saw a bunch of giants feeding in front of my dad's place on DuBay. I had honestly never seen carp that big! I'm definitely getting a couple more carp pattern lures this year. |
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Posts: 1636
| Based on a lot of diet studies, muskies really don't prefer carp, even if they are available in high numbers. Thats not to say they don't eat them, because they do. A lot of places have really gone downhill these last couple years. Sure carp push out gamefish from specific areas and ruin habitat, but the muskies have to go somewhere. I highly doubt carp would be the only reason for poor fishing. They could either be dying for whatever reason, maybe you hit a time frame where fish in the 30-40 inch range (average size range) aren't in high numbers due to a dent in stocking efforts, water clarity have made fishing difficult due to different patterns needed to be presented, fishing pressure, etc. etc.
Edited by Reelwise 12/29/2008 8:19 AM
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Posts: 1529
| we have millions of carp here on l. st clair. normally they prefer the warmer waters. they are basiclly in the shallows. there influence has not deterred musky spawns. on smaller lakes i definately can see problems.. in the spring spawns carp run the feeder creeks. the muskies spawn eleswhere on st clair. now those flying carp down south are a scary proposal. |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | sounds like a lake I fish often. Plenty of carp, algae blooms, and declining water quality. DNR has suggested bowfishing, and the lake associations are sponsoring bowfishing tournaments to decrease the lake's carp population. The goal for the DNR and association however, is better water quality, not increasing Muskie population.
Willis |
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Posts: 1316
Location: Madison, WI | You should check out some of the warm water discharges on Monona in the spring, it's absolutely disgusting how many carp. 1000's as far as the eye can see, some 30lbs in there too!!!! Doesn't seem to affect the muskie fishing. On a side note they did a 5 years project on wingra where they took a couple acres of water and removed the rough fish. I'm not sure if they posted the findings yet. I just know they hired a company to net 1000's of pounds of carp out of there last ice season. They funded the whole project by sending the carp to NY for processing at pennies for the pounds. Not sure the exact figures, but it blew me away.
Edited by Magruter 12/30/2008 10:35 AM
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Location: New Hope MN | I was talking with my dad about this thread and he reminded me that when I was a kid I was caught netting carp with a butterfly net in the gull river (age 11ish). They fined him over $100 for wildlife molestation or something to that effect.
All i can remember is freaking huge they were. JACKPOT! |
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Posts: 413
Location: Madison WI | Magruter - 12/30/2008 10:32 AM
You should check out some of the warm water discharges on Monona in the spring, it's absolutely disgusting how many carp. 1000's as far as the eye can see, some 30lbs in there too!!!! Doesn't seem to affect the muskie fishing. On a side note they did a 5 years project on wingra where they took a couple acres of water and removed the rough fish. I'm not sure if they posted the findings yet. I just know they hired a company to net 1000's of pounds of carp out of there last ice season. They funded the whole project by sending the carp to NY for processing at pennies for the pounds. Not sure the exact figures, but it blew me away.
The DNR did get a lot of carp out of wingra last year but personally I don't think they dented the population one bit. I fished wingra a lot this year and I personally saw thousands of carp go into lake wingra from the creek, it was especially bad after we had that huge rainfall early in the season. They were literally able to swim over the dam without any jumping required. I really want to take a bow out there next year my only fear is that the muskies like to sit in with the big carp (20-30lbers) and last thing I need to do is shoot a muskie. If it was legal to net them I would have done it, I will end this rant before it goes completely off topic and say that carp effects on muskies definetly is determined by # of carp and size of the lake. |
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| yeah...bowfishing on Wingra, the locals would love to see somebody out there doing that.
even if the direct impact of carp on muskies is small, the indirect impact could be large.
if the carp eating and stirring everything up destroys weeds and decreases water quality, this can have a big impact on baitfish, and that could definitely have a negative impact on muskies, especially in smaller shallow lakes where there is no where else for the other species to go.
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Posts: 413
Location: Madison WI | Lambeau which locals would your be referring to, the people that live next to the lake?
Edited by muskyhunter24 12/30/2008 8:42 PM
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| Lambeau which locals would your be referring to, the people that live next to the lake?
yes, mostly. i work with someone who lives very near the lake and is an active member of the Friends of Lake Wingra group.
the socio-economic makeup of that group skews it in a somewhat different direction than the typical bow-fisher. although the group would have/does endorse carp removal and management in the lake, i'd say that the majority of group members would be somewhat uncomfortable with the visceral experience of watching someone shoot a fish with a bow.
the netting project in Wingra last year was a great effort; i'd personally like to see it happen on an annual basis combined with a barrier of some kind to prevent fish (both muskies and carp) from moving upstream into the lake.
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Posts: 413
Location: Madison WI | What point would a barrier be for muskies, they go into wingra to spawn, and unless that barrier is over 4 ft high it won't do much good because I have seen numerous muskies jump over the high part of the current dam with the water super low which comes to about 3.5-4 ft. |
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Carp effect on musky.