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Posts: 507
| http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/articles/12.22.2008/1908/Muskie.Ang... |
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| cool.
any indication on when we can hope to get event details? (where, when, etc.)
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| The necessary permits will be in process this week. A schedule will be available as soon as is possible. One event in June, one in July, one in August, and one in September are planned.
Two events in Wisconsin, and two in Minnesota.
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Posts: 5874
| Who is behind the MAC? What differentiates your circuit from the other two or three circuits out there now? |
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| The Muskie Anglers Circuit was founded by principals at Fiberdome, Inc. working with several promotional partners. OutdoorsFIRST was chosen to perform onsite Media operations, handle Public Relations, and will be developing the Muskie Anglers Circuit website.
Master Of Ceremonies top candidate at this time is Jim Kalkofen, well known as a Fishing Hall Of Famer for his efforts working with organizations in the Walleye World very similar to the Muskie Anglers Circuit promoting and forwarding the sport of competitive angling.
A Can/AM Challenge is in the works as well, operating as a cooperative effort between the Muskie Anglers Circuit and Canadian interests and businesses.
As Promotional Partners join with us, we will be announcing contingencies and awards offered by them to teams using the products in sanctioned events.
The recent press release covers many of the new and innovative concepts the Muskie Anglers Circuit will implement. Expect many more!
The payouts more aggressive than those offered to date from any circuit, and as Partners join us, will increase from current levels through contingencies. Tuffy Boats will offer considerable contingency money to the top finishing Tuffy owner, for example, and the Muskie Anglers Circuit is working with other boat builders and business to add even more value for the competitive muskie angler. |
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Posts: 5874
| Immediate release is mentioned. Judge boat format? Or CRR(Catch, Record, and Release)? Good to see JK back in the mix. Brings some credibility to this cricuit right off the bat.
Can/Am sounds like fun. Be interesting on a body of water like Lac Suel, or Eagle, or LOTW. |
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| Immediate release, CPR. Bump boards will be provided for each team each day. No judge boats, immediate release. |
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Posts: 5874
| Camera's provided for recording the bumpboard measurements? Like AIM is doing in their new Walleye Tour? |
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| Cameras will be required, and bump board provided. Anglers will shoot two clear images of the fish on the board and photos of the immediately release. |
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| So I guess the 150% pay out was internet hype. If there is 120 boats at 750 ea thats 90000 |
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| Read the first page of the Tournaments 09 thread. I think I posted top prize would be about 30K with 120 boats and it is.
There's an angler of the Year race in those payouts too. Up to $24 K, it says.
Contingencies can boost the payout quite a bit. Look at FLW Tour. Win without the contingencies, 60 thousand, win with, up to 100 thousand. Have to wait and see what comes along there.
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Posts: 75
Location: Aurora, IL. | I think the news is great!
Great news for tournament anglers!
Thanks to all that put the time and effort to coordinate and create this opportunity for all of us.
I can already see renewed vigor with the PMTT (which I love to participate in) in their communication. Competition will make all of the tours better.
Can't wait to see all the details.
Well done MAC!
Joe |
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Posts: 221
| Exciting stuff!
Can't wait to hear more details on the Can-Am Tourney. It will be great to meet and fish against guys from the boards and some names that are the best in the business! It opens a world of opportunity for some very talented Canadian Musky fishermen. I know a few that will be participating and you won't be disappointed.
Not only will registered fish be big and plentiful, but the settings of the Canadian Sheild (if it's in the sheild) will make this tourney a very unique experience.
We can't wait to have you guys up here for what will be a truely awesome weekend!
See ya out there,
Darcy Cox |
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| MAC; What is the booth number for the Tri-Esox Show? Looking forward to discussing all the complete details. I assume brochures and applications will be available at the show. Is there any additional incentives for fishing all "4" tournaments? |
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| Any idea when we'll get info on dates and locations?
now is the time when we start planning vacations days, etc...
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| A schedule will be available when permitting is complete. A tentative schedule will be ready by the Tri Esox Chicago. |
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Posts: 202
| The concepts that the MAC will be bringing to the musky world are not only refreshing but should help to improve the sport for everyone. I look forward to having the opportunity to fish on the Musky Anglers Circuit next year. |
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Posts: 101
Location: Liberty, IN (OKI Tri-State) | What an exciting turn of events given the dismal economic enviroment in which we find ourselves mired and an omnipresent negative-mindedness that seems to prevade and stifel most all such talk of future projects.
Given the info available to date, I can only see this effort as being a positive catalyst for the entirety of the Muskie angling world; competitve or not.
*well known, highly respected names
*forward thinking, innovative, involved organizations
*the fine folks @ MuskieFirst bringing thier unique perspective and multiple talents to bear in the Event Coverage, Angler Promo, PR, Live Video Feeds and sooo much more...
Building upon best practices gleaned from decades of Esox Tournaments while putting together a better "Total Package" from the competitive anglers standpoint will only serve to raise the bar for all involved in this niche market while increasing the general publics knowledge and awareness not only of how awsome and worthy an adversary is the 'Mighty Masquinonge', but more importantly Her delicate place in the overall balance of Nature's scheme and WHY it is so important She has a place in our future. Not as a fragile"China Doll" on some shelf to be only admired by a few... untouched by many for fear of breaking; but as revered Monarch of freshwater, to be respected,promoted, protected, pursued and challenged in "Fair Chase" as a Birth Right to avid anglers across the breadth and width of North America!
A tip of the cap folks. I wish you all of the luck in the world and forward my best wishes of success.
May the Muskie Gods shine thier fickel favours lavishly upon us all this season...
and for many more to come.
Bob
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| I am glad that we have a press release.
But we are still missing the details that will tell us if this is worth fishing. We all new that this was comming so the info that was given out was not much more that what we already new. With the show comming up I hope they have thier stuff together so we can get a good feel for what it is all about. I know that many teams sighn up for the PMTT at the shows.
So it would be nice to see the full deal on the MAC before the Show.
As for now I am glad that we have a new trail in town but if they are going to be a player they need to get us the info ASAP.
Also noticed that the PMTT is claiming to be doing more for its anglers this year so MAC has at least got thier attention. Any improvement in the PMTT will be a good thing they have a long way to go since they do nothing for them now.
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Yes it would be nice to see some more info on the payouts, in the other trails it is more of a all or nothing type of approach, I guess I am interested in how far they plan on paying out, and what will the 2nd to ? payouts be. Will most of this be finalized by Chicago?
Troyz |
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Posts: 28
Location: crivitz, wi | How are you going to get an accurate measurement using a picture and a bumpboard. Can you see both ends good enough to get down to a 1/16th
of an inch? |
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| If I am reading this right, this tournament is put on by the owners of Tuffy boats right?
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| musky54114 - 12/27/2008 8:36 AM
How are you going to get an accurate measurement using a picture and a bumpboard. Can you see both ends good enough to get down to a 1/16th
of an inch?
Yes. Not to a 16th of an inch, that isn't the parameter. 1/4" is no problem.
'Yes it would be nice to see some more info on the payouts, in the other trails it is more of a all or nothing type of approach, I guess I am interested in how far they plan on paying out, and what will the 2nd to ? payouts be.'
Expect the rules and payout schedule to be online and available by the end of next week. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Yes, the founding principals are the owners of Fiberdome Inc., the parent compnay of Tuffy Boats. However, there will be other promotional partners and manufacturers involved. The trail is a cooperative effort between Fiberdome and other interested parties. |
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| So the way I am reading this, this tourney is nothing more than a marketing effort on behalf of Tuffy to help them sell a few more boats during tough economic times. $30K does not equate to a 150% payout @ $750 per team with a field of 120 teams. I hope the MAC is putting some thought into where these tourneys will be held, because if its more Eagle River/Madison Chain events, they have a tough road ahead. |
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| If Tuffy is behind this, that is great news..to finally see a boat company support the muskie industry is pretty promising...I hope you are right guess....maybe more will get on board in the future.... |
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Posts: 1636
| Doesn't Ranger Boats sponsor the PMTT? |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | I first want to direct you to what Sunfish said in the middle of this thread. The possibility of a larger payout would depend on contingency offers that would be present to those fishing MAC. Take a look at the FLW tours, last year a guy was guaranteed $60,000 for first place, however, if a guy ran the right boat and motor, he automatically qualified for another $40,000, putting the first place prize at $100,000. The contingency offers would be run similar to how the FLW's are run.
Here is the link to the contingencies that are possible for the 2009 FLW walleye tour.
http://walleyetour.flwoutdoors.com/contingencyAward.cfm?cid=5&did=0
For a MAC event, a full field of a 120 has the possibility of a $30,000 cash prize for first place, that's without any contingency. If I recall right, the closest first place prize in any musky trail for a single event is only $20,000, not too shabby if you ask me. Then another $24,000 cash for the top placing team of the year.
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| Reelwise - 12/27/2008 4:16 PM
Doesn't Ranger Boats sponsor the PMTT?
I believe they are a sponsor, but they are not backing the tournament...I would guess the MAC and PMTT...have a few other sponsors as well:) |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Guest - 12/27/2008 1:57 PM
So the way I am reading this, this tourney is nothing more than a marketing effort on behalf of Tuffy to help them sell a few more boats during tough economic times. $30K does not equate to a 150% payout @ $750 per team with a field of 120 teams. I hope the MAC is putting some thought into where these tourneys will be held, because if its more Eagle River/Madison Chain events, they have a tough road ahead.
I've attended several organizational meetings, and can assure you it's much more, John.
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Posts: 512
Location: Appleton | Not sure how a lack of schedule shows poor organization. The PMTT which has been around for some time just released theirs. Seems to me like some just want this to fail before it even gets going. I for one am interested in a schedule but don't think any less of the tournament for not having one. The Chicago show is when many make tourney plans and if they have it out by then everything will be fine. As for any new venture there is sure to be growing pains but let the full plan comeout before jumping the gun. |
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Posts: 1636
| Its too bad this trail will be sticking to Minnesota and Wisconsin. Very interested to see how well it does. 4 different types of water would be sweet. A lake, chain of lakes, river, and a reservoir would be great. I know things have been well thought out and are pretty much set in stone, but paying more places rather than having one giant amount for first place might draw more people, in my opinion. I doubt anyone would complain about winning $20,000 for first place rather than $30,000. Of course the more the better, but that would leave you $10,000 more to pay down and more people would end up at least breaking even.
Edited by Reelwise 12/27/2008 7:24 PM
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| Wisconsin and Minnesota are the states for 2009. Why is that 'too bad'?
You have some sort of inside track on the payouts? I haven't seen a schedule yet.
I heard the second place payout is over 7 thousand, and third over 5. I hope that's right. We're looking forward to seeing the payouts next week. |
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Posts: 1636
| Its "too bad" because some would like to see events like this in other states such as Illinois, Ohio, Kentucky, and so on. The PMTT is great because they fish different bodies of water throughout the muskies range, which tests many skills throughout the year. Fishing a southern reservoir is completely different than fishing a northern Minnesota lake and far more technical. The Detroit River is a lot different than lakes in northern Wisconsin. Etc, etc, etc...
Not complaining Mr. Sunfish... just stating that I would love to see a tournament trail organized similar to this that covers the muskies range, thats all. |
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Posts: 28
Location: crivitz, wi | Merckid - 12/27/2008 4:29 PM
I first want to direct you to what Sunfish said in the middle of this thread. The possibility of a larger payout would depend on contingency offers that would be present to those fishing MAC. Take a look at the FLW tours, last year a guy was guaranteed $60,000 for first place, however, if a guy ran the right boat and motor, he automatically qualified for another $40,000, putting the first place prize at $100,000. The contingency offers would be run similar to how the FLW's are run.
Here is the link to the contingencies that are possible for the 2009 FLW walleye tour.
http://walleyetour.flwoutdoors.com/contingencyAward.cfm?cid=5&did=0
For a MAC event, a full field of a 120 has the possibility of a $30,000 cash prize for first place, that's without any contingency. If I recall right, the closest first place prize in any musky trail for a single event is only $20,000, not too shabby if you ask me. Then another $24,000 cash for the top placing team of the year.
The WMT has payouts of $20,000 and the entry fee is less then half of the MAC
plus they have end of the year contingencies that can total in the six figures as
most of you know.
I am sure the MAC is going to be a good musky trail and we will have to wait and see the rules, payouts and locations.
If I see no real benifit for the $750 entry fee I will fish more of the WMT and get
2 tournaments for $600. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | The WMT has a championship payout above $20,000 and three events that could pay out $20,000 if they have a full field of I think 150. The championship for the WMT is for qualifiers only, so there aren't many tournaments that will pay out $20,000+.
The contingencies you talk about on the WMT and the ones MAC will have are two very different things. The contingencies in the WMT are not always paid out, people have to accomplish such feats in order for the contingencies to be paid. For example, in the FLW, if a guy places first and is running a Ranger or G3, combined with a Yamaha or Evinrude motor, he will qualify for the extra $40,000. However, if the first place guy doesn't drive a Ranger or G3 combined with a Yammie and or an Evinrude, he will not get the first place contingency money of $40,000. Each person that places has a different amount available. So, at the end of September, Pro Tommy Skarlis was running a Ranger powered Evinrude in the championship, he won the championship so he qualified for the extra $50,000(there was more money in the contingency for the championship), the second place guy also was running the right equipment and took home an extra $35,000. The contingencies the WMT have are different than what MAC will have.
Also, contingencies will be available for each tournament, not just for one event during the year. For example, each FLW event, that extra $40,000 for first place could be paid out for all five of the tournaments held in the FLW tour. Another example, the Toyota Walleye Rewards program WalleyeFIRST runs pays out to every FLW Tour and League event, and use to pay out to all the PWT events too. Toyota paid $2,000 to the highest placing angler in every FLW and PWT tour event and $1,000 to the highest placing FLW League angler driving a 2007 or newer Toyota Tundra in every single event.
Edited by Merckid 12/27/2008 11:31 PM
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| Reelwise - 12/27/2008 7:57 PM
Its "too bad" because some would like to see events like this in other states such as Illinois, Ohio, Kentucky, and so on. The PMTT is great because they fish different bodies of water throughout the muskies range, which tests many skills throughout the year. Fishing a southern reservoir is completely different than fishing a northern Minnesota lake and far more technical. The Detroit River is a lot different than lakes in northern Wisconsin. Etc, etc, etc...
Not complaining Mr. Sunfish... just stating that I would love to see a tournament trail organized similar to this that covers the muskies range, thats all.
'Four events are planned for 2009. Two are planned to be centered in Wisconsin, and two are planned in Minnesota, offering a trail in the heart of Muskie country fishing some of the best waters available.'
How does this mean the Muskie anglers Circuit won't go to other locations? Where does it say that? They have a Canadian-US Challenge planned for 2009. |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | A contingency is an amount paid out by a sponsor for running a sponsor's product and placing in a predetermined place, sometimes a win, sometimes several places are paid, sometimes, as in the case of Toyota Trucks Walleye Anglers Rewards, the highest placing finisher running the brand.
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Posts: 1636
| Guest: "How does this mean the Muskie anglers Circuit won't go to other locations? Where does it say that? They have a Canadian-US Challenge planned for 2009."
2 in Wisconsin and 2 in Minnesota. Thats two states. I highly doubt there will be a Canadian-US Challenge anywhere other than a lake that divides the two or a lake located in Minnesota or Canada. To my knowledge there are over 20 states with Muskies in them and muskie fishermen from all over the united states. Sure, these tournament are in what some of you call the "heart" of muskie country, but there are 4 tournaments in 2 states that people from all over the country may be interested in fishing. I would like to see a tournament trail ran in the same fashion in other states, thats all. I did not say that the Muskie Anglers Circuit would not spread them out in the future. It would be nice if it were this upcoming year... So, "TOO BAD" its not.
Edited by Reelwise 12/27/2008 9:25 PM
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Posts: 28
Location: crivitz, wi | The WMT has 3 major open tournaments that pay $20,000 each
open for anyone that pays the 300.00 entry. Plus anyone that wins
back to back 1 day tournaments on the same weekend gets an
extra $20,000 bonus! |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Thinking about this a little, from a buddy who has fished the PMTT the last couple of seasons, there wasn't one PMTT that held a full field this year(Eagle River was the closest). So, by offering a trail in what most people would call the "heart" of muskie country, wouldn't you think this would be a positive thing? By offering a trail where majority of the musky world resides, wouldn't you think it would be more beneficial in the way of getting more guys fishing the whole trail versus maybe one or two tournaments a year? I've seen one thing first hand on the walleye trail side of things, the participation in the tournaments declined heavily in the past two years if tournaments were exceedingly out of the area. For example, the PWT went to Bull Shoals, Arkansas for a tournament in June, they had the worst participation in one of there tournaments ever. By offering a trail that is semi-local but offered on good waters, I would think that would be more appealing versus driving all over the country.
If I had the opportunity to play the game, I'd rather spend more time fishing than driving if you ask me. It only makes sense. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | The only way to get that $20,000+ payout is with a full field of a 150 boats if I'm reading things correctly. How many of those tournaments had a full field of 150?
Winning back to back one day events aren't a guarantee, so the contingency money won't be paid every weekend. I'm talking about contingency money that gets paid no matter what. |
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Posts: 1636
| I'm not saying what your doing is bad... I think a tournament trail like the PMTT with the same incentives the MAC is putting on the table would do awesome. The PMTT is not having a tough time filling up because of location. I'm not saying running 4 tournaments in 2 states that already have tournament trails is bad, but if all of the other trails are having a hard time filling up with decent payouts and lower entry fees, I think the MAC will be faced with the same problem, especially with a higher entry fee. A lot of people are not willing to gamble away money like that. Like musky54114 said, most would probably rather fish two tournaments for the price of one (and still cost less) and have two chances to win $20,000 (WMT). |
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Posts: 28
Location: crivitz, wi | Merckid - 12/27/2008 9:39 PM
musky54114 - 12/27/2008 9:27 PM
The WMT has 3 major open tournaments that pay $20,000 each
open for anyone that pays the 300.00 entry. Plus anyone that wins
back to back 1 day tournaments on the same weekend gets an
extra $20,000 bonus!
The only way to get that $20,000+ payout is with a full field of a 150 boats if I'm reading things correctly. How many of those tournaments had a full field of 150?
Winning back to back one day events aren't a guarantee, so the contingency money won't be paid every weekend. I'm talking about contingency money that gets paid no matter what.
The payout for MAC is based on a full field also! I for one am not going to spend
$30,000-$50,000 dollars on a boat or truck just to have a shot at any contingency money! It will be interesting to see who will be paying these and what we will need ot have to spend to have a shot at them. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Reelwise,
Think of it this way. An extra $75 a man for a chance at an extra 10 thousand plus first place and equally higher payouts for the rest of the top ten and a chance at up to 24 thousand for team of the year, and contingency money is not a huge gamble. If you ask me, an extra $75 for that much more for first place would be worth it.
Doesn't sound like MAC will be anything like the PMTT.
There is plenty of room for both and it's about time we have two circuits.
If MAC had a 'possible' field of 150 boats, the top listed payout would be even higher. |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | I think you have to give them time to tweak everything and get in place. It would have been nice to have more info but I think this came about rather fast for them. I think that being in Minn and Wisc will be a plus for them. I think there is room for this and I believe it will work if the economy picks up some. I think the news of it just mentioned on mf has generated alot of interest and it appears many of you are ready for this.
Pfeiff |
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Posts: 355
Location: Wausau, Wisconsin | Wow! |
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| Although I am skeptical I will give this some time to materialize. That being said, at $750 a boat, it is going to be very hard to fill a 120 boat field. With all the tournament competition, I realistically see fields of 60-100 boats. One thing that will have a huge impact on the number of entrants will be where these tournaments are held... I know one of the biggest complaints with the PMTT is their selection of waters.
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| When getting permits, I would imagine that lake size is one of the big things to take into consideration, and there are only so many lakes that can hold a 120 boat tourney.
There are only so many, so in MN I would assume that it is going to be on either Mille Lacs, Leech, Vermillion, or Cass. In Wisconsin, there is The Chip, Winnebago Chain, Green Bay, Pentenwell, any other lakes? |
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | There's also obviously the Madison chain and Eagle River chain, however, hopefully they will have some new, fresh ideas in terms of what bodies of water the events will be held on instead of what seems like the same lakes year in and year out.
I am VERY excited about a Can/Am tournament, it is something we have dreamed abut for years. I'll keep my fingers crossed they select the lakes I think they will.... |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | MuskyDew - 12/28/2008 1:33 PM
Does anyone have contact info for MAC LLC?
Dew
There will be an 800 number released very soon. Further details of the trail will be released at the Tri Esox show in Chicago on January 9-11.
Here is the press release that was posted on the first page of this thread.
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/articles/12.28.2008/1908/Muskie.Ang... |
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| Any specifics available as to how the trail plans to give back to the local fishery where the event was held? I know that I had to make a formal request of the PMTT to help fund a stocking effort/habitat improvement here on the 100% club maintained fishery on Petenwell flowage, and they came through with flying colors as they should have. With that said, I feel it should be done without being prodded. I could care less about what the payouts are, or who is sponsoring the deal, as in my opinion any trail should be giving back to the fishery(especially those completely reestablished and maintained by club funding/or maintained entirely by stocking in general) as much as giving to themselves and their entrants. Sounds like a well thought out trail with some seasoned professionals at the helm, so am sure this type of local support has already been added into the equation. It is amazing what a small(in the grand scheme of things) donation to a local club for supporting the fishery the event is held on can do for image. |
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| Seems like an high goal the people behind the MAC has set here ... hope it comes together. Contact info, rules, schedule, etc. would be great to see ASAP. I really like the idea of the autmatic give-back to the fishery and hope that happens as well. |
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Posts: 75
Location: Aurora, IL. | Reelwise,
Your statement: The PMTT is not having a tough time filling up because of location. Is false.
Here's an example of the attitudes from the guys I hang with that have fished the PMTT for years.
2006
Cave Run-We all like
Petenwell- No like
Eagle River- Take it or leave it
Vermilion- Love it
Championship/Fox Chain- No like
2007
Fox Chain- Please!
Eagle River- enough already!
Cass- Love it (late to let us know)
Madison Chain- ehh/ok
Championship/Cave Run- We like
2008
Cave Run- Ok starting to get old
Shelbyville- No like
Eagle River- enough
Detroit River- Forget it
Championship/Bemidji- awesom
2009
Cave Run-Ok now it is old
Fox Chain- Really
Eagle River- Really
St Croix River- ? maybe
Madison Chain- OK
Point is we are getting tired of fishing the same water year after year. And its not exciting water with the exception of the Minnesota systems and Cave Run.
I agree that fishing different lake, reservoirs and rivers is an excellent test, however your arguement that the lakes or their locations have not been a problem for the PMTT in filling fields is incorrect.
Bottom line here's how it's going to break out for 2009, not for everyone but for most;
1) We fish the PMTT at Cave Run (becuase its April and we want to fish) For the guys coming from northern Wisconsin and Minnesota maybe not even then.
2) Probably will fish the Fox Chain (bitching the whole time) because it's close. But I doubt guys from Minnesota and Northerm Wisconsin are coming down.
3) The rest of the schedule is up in the air until we see the MAC tournament schedule.
Mixed in between we fish various the WMT events (which we like alot), IMTT events and Ironman events. These events are scheduled mainly because we like the bodies of water the tournaments are held on, and because the folks that run them are good guys.
We totally understand that certain bodies of water are off limits because of boat restrictions and numbers, but what about the championship at Kinkaid?
And why not fish more Minnesota or Wisconsin waters, it's were we all grew up fishing for muskies.
No one ever sent us a survey to see what lakes we would like to fish. I received one questionairre as far back as I can remember and it came from the WMT.
Some may say that the MAC has to get it right right now or their doomed. I disagree, they will have a couple year honeymoon to fine tune their format, schedule, payouts, etc. Frankly I think the PMTT (whom I think so far publicly have been classy in not bashing the MAC) has the white hot spot light shining directly on them right now. I think it's safe to say all tournament anglers want all tournaments tours to succeed, hopefully some added competition for tournament anglers will help sort this situation out.
Joe
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Posts: 1636
| Joe, how can you speak for everyone? I know plenty of people that love the PMTT and their lake selection. You just named 10 different bodies of water over a 4 year period. Is that so bad? So what if Shelbyville is a Challenge... Its a very large lake and puts out a good number of fish and some quality fish too. I personally really like it and would fish it more if it were closer since its the biggest muskie lake we have in the state. I love the challenge. I can understand why people don't like the Fox Chain, but you don't have to deal with the pleasure boaters in the spring. Its a complex chain of lakes with a lot of fish in it. The locations of the event may be part of the problem and I should have stated what I wrote differently, but the economy may be an even bigger problem. Gas prices, lodging, bills, etc etc are all part of the "problem," which does factor into "location" due to how much money people have to fork out. So, you would fork out the extra money to fish the MAC because of where the tournaments will be located... okay, so why did you not just quit fishing the PMTT and fish only the MMTT and WMT events? They fish a lot of different lakes and some real, "trophy" lakes too. Or did you just fish the PMTT because of the "spotlight?" I know I probably don't talk to as many people who fish the PMTT as you do, but I talk to a few. The only 2 bodies of water that are on the schedule every single year are Eagle River and the Cave. Like I said, you named 10 different bodies of water over a 4 year period... I don't think lake selection has much to do with it at all. Sure they arent the best choices, but they def. are not the worst. You cant please everybody.
Edited by Reelwise 12/29/2008 2:32 PM
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| Joe, I completely agree. You might get the "regulars" not complaining about the selection of lakes, but I can assure you that new people are not joining because of the selection. I for one am one of these people.
Would I pay extra to fish a new set of lakes I like to fish? Heck yeah I would. The question I ask myself is " Would I want to be fishing this lake if not for the tournament?"
Eagle River? absolutely not
Fox Chain? absolutely not
Madison? maybe, I can live with this one
Cave Run? again, maybe
point is, I don't find any of these to be very exciting. Where are the MN lakes? Vermillion, Cass, Leech, Bemidji Area,..Mille Lacs even....Can't there be a better/fresher option then Eagle River for Northern Wisconsin?
So yes, there are people who are looking for something new and exciting and I hope this new trail might provide that |
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Posts: 75
Location: Aurora, IL. | Reelwise,
If you dont agree with my opinion thats ok, thats what this forum is for. Im just trying to explain how many of us are feeling. As far as Shelbyville is concerned "just give me a weed any weed" , it takes me an hour to clean all the clay off my crankbaits after a day of trolling. Actually there are some darn big fish in the system.
I fished the PMTT as a trail team, now I only fish the lakes that I like. We all have our own reasons for why we fish some tournaments and not others. You mentioned that I might have fished the PMTT for the "spotlight". I'll tell you this, many of us either have some sponsorships or would like to get more. The kind that can pay you money in order to help pay for all the expenses that go into fishing these tours. As far as spotlight goes, that my friend does not exist on the PMTT. Except for a very select few. Having said that the PMTT is what it is, many of us are hoping the MAC tour will become much more.
Joe
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Posts: 1636
| I agree with your opinion just as much as I agree with my own. They should be listening to everyone. Hopefully all trails look at some of these threads and take everything into consideration. I myself will only fish a tournament if I like the lake selection. Sure I believe I could compete on any body of water, but I want to have the best experience possible forking that kind of money out. Hmm... tournament on the Fox Chain or a weeks trip to Northern Minnesota for the same cost... I'd ditch the tournament in a heart beat. |
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| Imo having a tournament trail with the tourneys being held in WI and MN makes a lot more sense than all over the country...you will get more participation than a circuit like the PMTT...imo.
While the $750 entry is fairly high by the competitors standards, it will be very interesting to see if they come close to filling up the 120 boat field with todays economy getting worse by the minute...imo they won't fill up but i've been wrong before .. 
Good luck to those who enter...4 tourneys for the 1st yr is a good start with i bet more planned for yr 2...
i like the idea of giving back to the waters they hold the tourneys on as Reef Hawg states above..that is a good gesture on any tourneys part... |
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| One thing that has to be considered with PMTT lake selections is the draw. Cave Run and Eagle River are "regulars" because they consistently draw a high number of entrants. That is one reason why I fish Eagle River, b/c you know the payout will be 100% or very close.
I would love to fish some other waters, but wonder about the draw. If Bemidji was not the Championship last year, I wonder what the draw would have been? It's an awesome body of water, but it is a long way for many people. |
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| Location is only part of what draws people to tournaments. With most of the anglers being in WI MN IL and the best options for tournaments being in WI MN they are starting in the best place they can.
The PMTT has been fishing some of the same lakes over and over. They go to these lakes because the PMTT gets paid to bring the trail to that lake. They are not fishing them because the anglers request them.
However the turn out is good on lakes like the Eagle chain because the payout is good. Also because it is local to many anglers.
You also have to take in acount that we have few lakes that can support the amount of anglers that a full field would have ( 125 ). If you look at IL they only have 2 KY only has 1 and if Cave had a full field on it it would be very crowded!
When the PMTT goes to KY it has less that 100 teams and at Shelbyvile last year it had less that 75?
With that being said why would a new tournament trail go to fish waters that dont produce the anglers when they can fish waters that have beter potential of getting beter turn outs.
No mater what trail you fish if the anglers dont fish it you will not have a good pay out. |
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| Anything new or wait or the Chicago Show.......Will there be principles from MAC at the show? |
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| Watch for a press release this coming Wednesday. |
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| Any news or dates or lakes yet??????? |
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Location: Minnetonka | 2nd most anticipated moment of '09... right behind opener.  |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Dates should be announced in another press release this coming Friday.
A MAC release from today:
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/articles/01.07.2009/1926/.Muskie.An... |
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Posts: 1636
| Mississippi River tournament? |
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| Come on boys, I've followed the bait this far....but ain't biting yet......LOL |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Dates should be announced in another press release this Friday.
The brochure for the Muskie Anglers Circuit is going to be available at the Chicago Show.
Registration forms will be available at the Chicago Show.
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| do we need to go the the chicago show to register or is there going to be another place to get the form? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | You will, in the near future, be able to register by phone, online, and through the mail. |
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Posts: 36
Location: Mpls/St Paul Minnesota | Was the anticipated announcement I wanted patiently for to be released Wednesday about Jim being "MOC"?
Schedule or anything yet?
Jason
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Yes, the press release today is about Mr. Kalkofen being the MOC. As stated above and in the first page of this thread, the dates and locations will be released at Chicago. |
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| Why isn’t anybody else asking the obvious questions? Some might think I am ripping on it or people and this will probably get pulled only because they can, but I don’t know why others haven’t questioned it yet. Is it just me or does this whole MAC thing seem like it’s only or mostly S Worrall. Let’s face it, it is Tuffy Boats which he works for and MuskiesFirst which is S Worrall. The posts and press releases are from MuskiesFIRST or S Worrall. Is this not one in the same? The others involved or at least answering questions like they are involved e,i; Sunfish or Muskie Anglers C. have no name, which would leave one to believe that again it is all S Worrall. If not, why would anyone not be registering and posting who they are and what their involvement with the new circuit is to give them credibility? How does anyone named Sunfish have facts about the new circuit and doesn’t have to post his name when he states facts about what’s coming up? Why isn’t anyone asking.
How is this new circuit new or innovative? They are fishing Wisconsin and Minnesota which has their own circuits already, the WMT and the MMTT. The MAC is going to use the digital photo, bumpboard for registering fish, which the MMTT has been doing for years. Yes, they are going to have awesome coverage on Muskies First but anything else? The MAC is holding two of their tournaments in the hot water months of July and August, which if I remember correctly, the PMTT was shredded when they came out, because people said they would eventually hold tournaments in the hot water months. Now it is OK for the fish?
Does anyone else feel like it is being thrown together as they go? They state that they are going to make a major press release and the only thing new is the entry fee and first place prize payout and it came out at the end of the day, like they had to put something out there because they already said they would and didn’t have much yet. Then they say another announcement for Wednesday and we just get confirmation of Master of ceremonies which they kind of said already. Is it always going to be like this or is it still being thrown together as they go.
It also seems like it is going to be low budget. No magazine coverage, no TV. The “perception” that it is going to be so much more than the other tournaments doesn’t seem possible at this point. I mean the Chicago show is a day away, so the brochures have to be printed already, so why not give out the full info. Everything has to be done already right? Unless the brochures are just copies run off at Office Max or Kinko’s which again means thrown together last minute and low budget. Digital camera’s and bumpboards are also low budget. Yes, initial cost at first, but I imagine judges cost a lot of money, multiplied times every tournament, times every year. Yes, the MMTT has been doing it but only because the MDNR passed laws that made it the only way to hold a musky tournament in Minnesota. They did judge boats before and that cost money. I believe most anglers don’t care for the camera method either.
Don’t get all worked up about me pointing out facts, these should have been brought up already. Maybe they were but got pulled, because no one wants to answer these yet. We’ll see at the end of the year and maybe everything will work out and full fields at every tournament. Right now, I and I’m sure there are many others are skeptical and apprehensive to say the least.
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Posts: 229
| Rick,
Go to page 1... There were posts on there about the owners of Tuffy running this tornament. What you are saying is not news to anyone. Go back and read the posts on page 1. And yes, there have been many questions raised about what is happening. You are not the first to wonder what is going on and post such. The Chicago show is tomorrow- there should be more info then.
John
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Location: Aurora, IL. | Jeez!
Lets give these guys a chance for god sakes.
All these guys have said is that they intend to create something that could be very exciting. They also gave us a picture of what it could possibly develope into.
It may all happen this year, it may take 2-3 years to line up all the necessary players, partners, sponsors, ect.
It's like starting a small business, and it's hard.
No doubt whoever is trying to pull this together is working their butts off to get permits, line up sponsors and everything else that is involved to start a business.
If it was me and I read a post like I just read well lets just say I wouldnt be pleased. I mean dont you think they understand that we need tournament schedules? Dont you think they understand they are fighting for tournament anglers and getting that info out asap is in their best interest.
Whether it's Steve or Tuffy or whomever what difference does that make?
Whoever it is, they're doing more than I am to further tournament oportunities. I think rather than criticize them we should be asking how we can help.
Joe |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i don't know ... fiberdome owns tuffy, steve works for tuffy, muskyfirst is an outlet for tuffy and toyota ... outdoorsfirst media was strongly associated with the walleye thing where these guys were ... it has been defined as such from day one and now they build up excitement prior to the major show making this "the news" for those attending. sounds like good business and good journalism to me. it's one thing to put out a tournament that takes into consideration the best points that have been learned over time, but the kicker to me is the can-am challenge which has got to be exciting for the top anglers who are interested in making a name for themselves. i know a few anglers who will benefit and they are fired up ... actually driving down as we speak.
i'm more interested to hear about the u.s. vs. canada part of it than anything and can't wait to see where, who the key players are and how it's going to happen. pretty good stuff if you ask me ... |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The Muskie Angler's Circuit is an LLC. Yes, I am one of the people involved and I'm delighted to have the opportunity.
How is the new Circuit innovative?
1) Total and immediate CPR in a Pro Format event with a full field $30,000.00 first place payout. Yes, Paul Hartman innovated the CPR format, and MAC feels more events out there should use it.
2) The events are going to be operated in the tradition of the major Walleye events. A full blown stage, sound system, plasma screens, live web coverage which means folks can watch the virtual 'weigh in' online...live. A professional master of ceremonies will run each afternoon's stage activities, interviewing the Pros as they come across the stage offering opportunity for video, images, and much more of each team. For the Pros, the Fans, the Pros sponsors, and the folks who attend locally, this is quite different than anything else to date and will help bring competitive Muskie angling to a new level. In short, the circuit is about promoting the Teams fishing it, not the Circuit. That's innovative.
3)The events are scheduled for dates that are usually active times on the water applied for. The locations MAC has selected usually do not have water temps higher than low 70's at event time. In any case, the MAC is an immediate CPR event, no holding or over stressing the fish, so that point is moot unless the water temps are uncharacteristically warm for that time of year in that location; in which case the event would be rescheduled, a very unlikely scenario. The waters were selected with the pros AND the fish in mind.
4) The press releases followed the schedule announced earlier. Read that thread, originally it was stated that MAC would release all the information on locations and payouts, etc at the Tri Esox. That's exactly what will happen. By the way, Mr. Kalkofen is an icon in the sport of competitive angling and his advice, stage presence, and experience working with the press makes his accepting the position very newsworthy.
5) Nothing is being 'thrown together'. The reason for the methodical, careful release of information is to guarantee when folks read a MAC release or story, they are not reading anything speculative.
6) To the low budget comment, I beg to differ. Suffice it to say the events will be very well covered, and the paradigm now in place will be followed. No one said there will be no magazine coverage, did they? TV is what it is, and future plans are in the works. TV traditionally offers coverage well after the event is over, so we are looking to shift that to acquire better timing and add relevance to the coverage. The payouts are pretty good, too. Importantly, less 'budget ' is ending up in the organization, and more in the winning team's checking account.
7) MAC believes most anglers fishing muskies competitively want to do what's best for the fish. MAC believes most would like to fish waters like Vermilion and Leech, Cass, and Mille Lacs, Minocqua, and Pelican, and more where DNR restrictions might keep other venues out, and this format allows that to happen. Al Lindner spoke to the general format at the NPAA meeting, and said it not only is the way it should be done with muskies, it's the way of the future and MUST be done. We agree.
8) Huge budget or one not so huge if everyone, at the end of the day on Saturday, is talking about who's in the lead, watched the live onstage action, watched the morning and afternoon interviews with the team members and knows the winners on Sunday the instant the points are tallied and displayed on the MAC plasma screens, that's innovative.
Yes, the brochures are printed, and will be offered at the Tri Esox Show.
Sled, correct except for an item..Steve doesn't work for Tuffy. Tuffy Boats is an OutdoorsFIRST client, one of many. Tuffy Boats is a Promotional partner with the MAC, again, one of several.
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Posts: 393
Location: Hopefully on the water | I am just waiting to see the details about the lakes and date. Should be a good opportunity for some. Looking forward to seeing more info after the weekend. |
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Posts: 229
| Steve,
Good luck with putting everything together. It will be a great challenge. I think the waters you listed will be appealing to many people as they offer true big fish possibilty as well as the tournament setting.
John |
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Location: Twin Cities | Yep, it's winter! =) |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | pelican
minocqua chain
mille lacs
vermillion
cass
leach
hmmmmmm |
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| i'm definitely fishing the full trail.
the timing is good for me as i was looking to do some tournament fishing in a more significant way this season.
i'm not involved in any way with the MAC, but my personal experience with the people organizing this trail is positive. i'm confident enough that they will do a good job that i'll be plunking down my deposit on Saturday at the Chicago Show.
the potential lake list is very cool!
plus i heard that the brochure is pretty sweet...
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Location: minocqua, wi. | hey steve ... pelican got crowded on a tuesday night league with 13 boats ... !!! left me having to cut norm off all night long. and norm, it was morse's fault ... he told me to do it!! |
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Posts: 691
Location: nationwide | Can someone, preferably Steve Worrall, clear up the "Steve Worrall does not work for Tuffy" comment?
Thanks,
Corey Meyer |
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| Again, I am not ripping Steve. If it’s him he has a great reputation and just say it’s him. Stop with the perception and let it grow to what it can be.
No, I am not calling them to ask what I can do. And from what I have heard about others complaining about the other tournaments, not many will.
Having a higher entry fee to have a $30K isn’t innovative, it’s basic math. If you charge more, there better be more.
The digital camera format might be what you and Al Lindner want but not the majority of anglers or all circuits would be doing it. No matter what, bass, walleye, crappie or musky people want a witness, someone else to see the fish. Even if it’s just for piece of mind.
Lambeau, you are fishing the whole trail not knowing rules, payouts, schedule, dates, etc. ?????????????? Funny.
Good luck.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Norm alone creates a crowded lake. |
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| Lambeau, you are fishing the whole trail not knowing rules, payouts, schedule, dates, etc. ?????????????? Funny.
we know they're using the most fish-friendly format, that matters to me.
i can afford the entry fees, and have a rough idea of payouts.
we know it's one event/month throughout the summer; i've got the time off to go.
we know all events are in Wisconsin and Minnesota, and some potential lakes.
but most importantly, i personally know the people who are running it, and have faith that they'll put on good events.
it's understandable that others will take a wait-and-see approach, i respect that. for me, i know enough to have already decided that i'll participate.
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | Possible Tuffy incentives?
Pelican Lake a possibility?
Sounds intriguing to this feller! |
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| No matter what anyone does someone will not like schedule, format, or take your pick naysayers will find something not to like. These guys have stated they are coming out at the Chicago show, so logic says that is where alot of the info will be available.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Rick - 1/8/2009 12:54 PM
Again, I am not ripping Steve. If it’s him he has a great reputation and just say it’s him. Stop with the perception and let it grow to what it can be.
No, I am not calling them to ask what I can do. And from what I have heard about others complaining about the other tournaments, not many will.
Having a higher entry fee to have a $30K isn’t innovative, it’s basic math. If you charge more, there better be more.
The digital camera format might be what you and Al Lindner want but not the majority of anglers or all circuits would be doing it. No matter what, bass, walleye, crappie or musky people want a witness, someone else to see the fish. Even if it’s just for piece of mind.
Lambeau, you are fishing the whole trail not knowing rules, payouts, schedule, dates, etc. ?????????????? Funny.
Good luck.
The payout for first place is 33% higher than the competition with 3% fewer boats for a full field at 20% higher entry per team. The 2nd through 16th place payouts are also higher. $24,000.00 (full fields) goes to team of the year with no additional charges adding 7% to the total payout. There's your basic math. Do the same math for the other events out there, please, and if you like, post your results.
BASS is using 'Marshalls' (observer in each boat) and going digital. MMT went digital a long time ago. Anglers Insight Marketing AKA AIM, the newest and most exciting circuit in the walleye world uses CRR, a similar format. It's impossible to 'cheat', no reason to go into it here and now; let's just say it can't be done. We would be happy to take MAC to a Pro/Co Angler format, but the overall belief is competitive angling is not yet ready for that in the Muskie world. Maybe soon.
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| Rick - 1/8/2009 7:17 AM
why would anyone not be registering and posting who they are and what their involvement with the new circuit is to give them credibility?
Yeah. Great point, Rick ....er.... Wait, you haven't logged in or registered |
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| To re-fresh everyones thoughts or thinking......
1) Fiberdome Inc, is not a principal of MAC/Muskie Anglers Circuit.
2) Tuffy Boats is not a principal of MAC/Muskie Anglers Circuit. Tuffy is one of many sponsors.
3) Steve Worrall is not an employee of Fiberdome Incorporated.
4) Steve Worrall is not an employee of Tuffy Boats.
5) Tuffy Boats is an advertising/promotional client of MuskieFirst.
All major MAC principals will be present at the Muskie Tri Esox Show. Mac looks forward to all your questions and comments. |
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Holcombe
Leech
Vermillion
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Location: Mpls/St Paul Minnesota | As a business owner I wonder how the world they can put it together. ALot of money and not many companies have much right know. The ones who do are smart and keeping it until things loosen up and start improving.
As an angler I'm excited for an opportunity like this! I love tournaments and fish as many as I can, but looking back on the Simply Fishing event in 2003 some things changed last minute that I did not agree with. I hope this is not the same deal?
See you in Chicago!
Jason Summers |
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Posts: 1220
| New to this thread but I have two questions on this. First, my guess is that the requirement for these photos will make it impossible to ever fish an event without a partner. I have fished some of the other tour events as a loner when unable to secure someone who will talk to me--do I understand that right? Second, I really like the judge-boat format the best because it allows a perfect stranger to measure the fish and no need of transport. Am I just way too skeptical or isn't there a whole lot of ways to "stage" a photograph to maximize size? It might be a fun excercise to try taking photos of a fish from different heights and angles to see if that is possible--there is clearly going to be a certain advantage to two guys who are sharing the prize money to try for the best possible photo angle. |
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Posts: 670
Location: Otsego, MN | I've fished the MMTT for 3 years with the photo format. It's pretty impossible to cheat the system. I believe winners are also required to take lie dector tests if asked. The computer zooms in so far on the board when measuring you can see the measurement down to the 1/16 inch if you want. I like no judges, there's no waiting around, just call your fish in, take the photos and keep fishing. Best of all you get the fish released quickly. |
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| If Fiberdome isn't a principal, why is the Fiberdome address the address for the MAC? Seems strange.
And SWorrall does work for Tuffy Boats in a roundabout way. SWorrall=MuskieFirst, which apparently has a contract with Fiberdome/Tuffy Boats.
Seriously, why the mystery/secrecy/vagueness?
Could someone please name the people and organizations behind the MAC? Lambeau apparently knows. Why shouldn't the rest of us?
Editors Note:
Who owns the FLW? Who owns BASS?
It isn't boat the owners, it's about the ANGLERS. |
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Posts: 512
Location: Appleton | Why can't anybody wait for a few days. They said originally all info would be out at the Chicago Show. Seems to me like the show is tomorrow so maybe wait till then till you rake these guys over the coals. |
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| Could someone please name the people and organizations behind the MAC? Lambeau apparently knows. Why shouldn't the rest of us?
yes, i know the people.
everyone else will know as well...tomorrow. or today, by the time you're reading this. i believe most of the principals will be at the Chicago Show.
Am I just way too skeptical or isn't there a whole lot of ways to "stage" a photograph to maximize size? It might be a fun excercise to try taking photos of a fish from different heights and angles to see if that is possible--there is clearly going to be a certain advantage to two guys who are sharing the prize money to try for the best possible photo angle.
i haven't seen the rules for the MAC, but i assume since it's bump boards that they will do things similarly to the MMTT/Hartman tournies as has already been mentioned. this requires a picture clearly showing the fish on the board with head "bumping" and tail on the tape.
i've included a picture below taken during an MMTT event to demonstrate.
with a full-size pic straight from the camera you can zoom in very close and verify the "bump" as well as see the measurement with good precision. Paul's MMTT events round up anything to the next largest 1/2" so that people don't waste time worrying about trying to find that last extra 1/4".
the bump-board process is a very quick and ultimately fish-friendly way to confirm the size of the fish while getting it released quickly.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The Muskie Anglers trail isn't about the 'principals' and never will be. This Circuit is about the Anglers, the sponsors, and the promotional partners. The intent is to keep focused where the focus needs to be in promotional and all other efforts.
No one will be able to fudge a measurement successfully. There is no 'best angle' the fish will measure what the board allows, nose to board, tail on board. Simple.
The MAC is a Limited Liability Corp. As such, it's separate from any and all other business entities any of the 'principals' operate for obvious reasons.
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| And SWorrall does work for Tuffy Boats in a roundabout way. SWorrall=MuskieFirst, which apparently has a contract with Fiberdome/Tuffy Boats. Seriously, why the mystery/secrecy/vagueness?
Why the mystery/secrecy/vagueness? It's called marketing. They want to make the big splash at the Chicago Show. Build some excitement, and have some fanfare, release the big picture, kick it off at a major event at the beginning of the year.
The differentiating element to this circuit is the emphasis on the anglers, not on the organizers. I see this as a good thing. I look at other circuits for Muskie, Walleye and Bass, and it's always been about the sponsors of those circuits, and they didn't do much to promote the anglers. The Bass side has been doing more the past couple of years, and now the Walleye side has AIM, which starts this year. That is going to be a circuit good for the anglers. Much like this new MAC for the muskie anglers.
Can't wait to see what comes out at the Chicago show today/tonight/tomorrow.
Edited by Shep 1/9/2009 10:56 AM
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| Well said Shep........ |
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Posts: 1220
| Thanks for comments and the photo of the "lambeau" fish which really helps. Interestingly, you can see clearly that the top point of the tail is being pushed slightly lower than the general horizontal line of the fish and that the tail is also not being pinched together as many formats require. I am not saying for a moment here that this means anybody was involved in a manipulation or a lack of honesty...I'm just saying that in a game of inches, a piece here and a piece there can add up to a lot. Naturally, when you win by ten inches--nobody cares. In any case, I'll be at that booth tomorrow and I'll be picking up the literature to be giving it a real serious look. If the thing is good, I am going to want to fish it. Marty Forman
Edited by Junkman 1/9/2009 8:53 AM
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Location: Medford, WI | "I believe most anglers don’t care for the camera method either."
-rick
Maybe it's just me, but I thought that most muskie fishermen would want this method used for tournaments. I've fished a few WMT events and talked to a few guys who wished there wasn't transport involved and all agreed that the bumpboard/photo would be great. Doesn't seem like there's ever any complaints from the MMTT, but I could be wrong on that.
I probably won't have enough money to fish in these tournaments, but in the future, I sure hope that I will have the chance to.
-Jake Bucki |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There have been dozens of examinations of 'pinching the tail' and not 'pinching the tail' by tournament organizations over the years, and general consensus is if the nose of the fish is on the board end, no matter what you do with the tail, the max measure will be what it is. If you tip the tail either way, it will shorten the measure. |
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| If possible, could someone please provide the lakes and dates for the trail; (if I'm correct that it was announced today). Thank you.
TW |
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| The anitcipation is killing us. How do you expect us to keep our minds on work? My production is going way down, I keep popping open MF to check for the news. You fail to remember, your captive audience is a bunch of impatient and sickly addicted musky nuts who can do nothing right now but watch the snow flakes fall.... |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/articles/01.09.2009/1934/Muskie.Ang... |
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| If Vermilion is true, that's a muskie tournament 3 out of 4 weekends stretching from July 18 - August 9th. Hottest time of the year up here. Water temps didn't get to 80 last summer, but that was an aberration. Every other summer for the past 10 years the surface temps hit 80 during that stretch. Very concerned about the pounding this lake will take in '09 with all the tourneys and accompanying pre-fishing. Guess the congo lines will be ever worse in '09.
editor's Note:
We spoke with several resort owners on the lake, and were told that average temps during that week are low 70's. NOT 80, and more often than high 70's, high 60's. |
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| Parker - 1/9/2009 4:09 PM
If Vermilion is true, that's a muskie tournament 3 out of 4 weekends stretching from July 18 - August 9th. Hottest time of the year up here. Water temps didn't get to 80 last summer, but that was an aberration. Every other summer for the past 10 years the surface temps hit 80 during that stretch. Very concerned about the pounding this lake will take in '09 with all the tourneys and accompanying pre-fishing. Guess the congo lines will be ever worse in '09.
I was thinking the same thing........poor timing |
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Posts: 670
Location: Otsego, MN | Sucks the first event is on MN muskie opener I believe. |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The fish will be released immediately, and we already covered what would happen if temps were unacceptable ANYWHERE a MAC event is held.
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Posts: 4266
| I suppose you'll be doing coverage on all of these events, so I'll have to look for another partner?
Walking Bull |
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| does anyone know if/when the website will be up and running? |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | We'll have a tentative schedule for the website posted this week. |
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Location: MN | Is it clear what the boundary lines are for the Vermilion Tournament? Is it strictly east end up to the Oak Narrows, visa versa for the West end, or the whole lake? |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | At this point, the entire lake is open. |
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Posts: 670
Location: Otsego, MN | Have the tourney hours been set yet? Like 7-5 sat 7-2 sunday for example. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | MAC fishing hours are 7 a.m. to 4 p.m. on Saturday, and 7 a.m. to 3 p.m. on Sunday. |
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Posts: 198
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DNR monitoring equipment has that time period as the warmest water of the year. It would be good to move this tournament to a colder water less busy period like end of Aug or Sept. This would also sit better with the locals IMHO.
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Location: MN | I agree with Silver Scale about lake temps. on Vermilion. A September tournament on Vermilion would be interesting.. again. |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There is absolutely no reason to worry about survival of an immediately released muskie in high 60 degree to low 70 degree water temps. There is every possibility the water temps in mid September are still at the average summer high, and if that's 73 degrees for example, there's no danger to the fish from water temps being 'too warm', especially in view of the immediate release format. It's interesting that July is the 'busiest' time of year, meaning there are muskie anglers out there, and I've not seen anything saying they 'shouldn't be' until now. MAC will be on the water only 2 days of competition, and during the day, not evening and night time.
The schedule dates are in stone for the weekends chosen, so if a location is changed due to permitting we will know very soon, and we won't move any event very far. One thing for certain, there are plenty of opinions from folks who don't fish competitively and a few from those who do, which is expected, and the MAC management team is listening. If you have constructive suggestions we will have an email address posted very soon.
A bit of perspective here:
There are several really well run highly competitive 'local' circuits in Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. If one decides to try out competitive angling for Muskies, that's the place most start. After a couple seasons, if the team does well enough and the Sport is still attractive, the move is made to the PMTT. This process is about the same in the Walleye world from WAT, MWT, etc to the Masters Walleye Circuit. Once an angler has reached the point they want to move into a new level of competition from the MWC, there is AIM and the FLW League and Tour. What's the difference between the Circuits, and why would one think this is an attractive option for EVERYONE looking at fishing Muskies competitively? That's already been described in this thread. Of course, it's in the Sport's best interest that ALL the Circuits do well drawing respectable fields, thus growing the sport and bringing new anglers into the competition at all levels.
Some of the comments we have heard are assumptive the idea is to somehow damage the circuits already in place. Nothing could be further from the truth. MAC did everything possible to avoid schedule conflicts (some are inevitable, but we are looking at the progression described above), and will continue to do so into the future.
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Posts: 444
| 3 Tournaments one month one lake is too much.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | If so, the MNDNR will let us know very soon.
This thread is designed to be informational for those interested in fishing or watching the events. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | I doubt there will me a tournament in MN on the opener. Historically MN doesn't issue permits for tournaments during the opener for the indicated species. |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "I've attended several organizational meetings, and can assure you it's much more, John."
It wasn't me. This is the first I've read anything about this tourny trail. I was up north on the 27th with no internet connection. The closest I got to this place during the holidays was going to Trigs in Rhinelander on new years eve day.
Edited by Gander Mt Guide 1/12/2009 12:55 PM
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Posts: 654
Location: MPLS, MN | sworrall - 1/12/2009 11:19 AM
If so, the MNDNR will let us know very soon.
This thread is designed to be informational for those interested in fishing or watching the events.
So if I started a seperate thread it wouldn't get deleated?
Glad to see the priorities on here are the sponsers and Tourny Promoters over local residents. I offered a fair counter opinion. |
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Posts: 7077
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Steve is currently away from his computer and unable to answer the above and other questions regarding the circuit and/or issues around posts from the past. I am going to lock this thread until Steve returns and can respond. |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | treats,
The event on the MN opener is in Minocqua, WI.
Obfuscate,
You seem to just want to complain about the event dates on a body of water you want to fish. If anyone who wants to whine about competitive angling does so on this thread, those who are actually interested in the events and the details surrounding them will find it hard to read.
GMG,
I never thought any post here was from you, sir. You were in Rhinelander New years? Should have called, the coffee is always on! |
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Posts: 654
Location: MPLS, MN | Yeah Yeah, your opinions are gods gold and mine are whining, I see...
J Mich also had a coment about where we can voice counter opinions and that was deleted also.
To be clear I have nothing against this new trail it's just 3 Tournies in 5 weeks on one body of water sucks when it's on your local waters. That is all...... |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Excuse me, but I believe I simply explained why this sort of thing is counterproductive. You proved the point for me...again.
I didn't see the other thread, I was at a friend's funeral. I also already said if the MNDNR thinks the same as you, we will adapt and adjust accordingly. |
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Posts: 654
Location: MPLS, MN | I understand and again I have nothing against this Tourny Trail, in fact compared to others it would probably be the one I'd fish. I plan to contact the DNR and voice my concerns about the QUANTITY of tournies on Leech, a friend of mine already has and the DNR rep had no info about this tourny and said the only permitted tourny in August is the Portage Bay Campground one the 8th and 9th. Maybe he hasn't got the info on this one since it's so new?
. |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | That's correct. It's on the way there now. |
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| You can use ONE weekend day for a tournament in MN. You will need to reschedule for Friday-Saturday or Sunday-Monday if you want a two day event that involves a weekend. That's the current law I believe. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | MAC has the applications on the way. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Who said there were 3 Tourneys on V in less than 4 weeks ?
Hartmans,
MAC, and which other one ?
Oh and buy the way , the water temps haven't been near 80* in the last 3 summers. I'm not saying that it can't get hot but if it did I'm sure the MAC will do the right thing.
And you guys that are aginst fishing at this time of the year need to pratice what you preach, I've read some of your posts and your out there pounding the water every chance you get during the summer bite.
Personally I'm fishing the PMTT, a couple of Hartmans events ,and the MAC.
I will also add that 99% of the people that fish these tourneys know how to handle the fish and have the fishes safety as a top priorty at all times.
Take it easy and try to be kind to someone today Later,
Jerome |
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Posts: 36
Location: Mpls/St Paul Minnesota | The International Muskie inc event is typically close to that date, I assume that's the 3rd?
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Posts: 244
Location: Mallard Island Lake Vermilion MN | Hi...I don't post a lot...see things a bit different in life than most...try to help an have fun in all I do......just don't get all the crabbieness about these tourneys as they have come a long long way in recent years....amazing.
Better to be a trend setter than a follower.
No one wants to do something halfassed.
Sometimes things end up that way...but only really for the lack of planning or input from wide variety of people of many intrests an walks of life.
Everyone knows a liitle about something....why not try to reach out...offer up something positive and get everything rolling in right direction.
I'm no tourney guy ......done a few had fun but did not do much for me...so I seldom feel the need to enter.
Dose not mean I hate tourneys or the people in them or running them.
I try to see the good in everything....If I can't I speak up so at least I know I did something to help or I just shut up.
LOL
That is just me...humor is trying to trip me up every second of every day.
I would love to see our lil path of lake be like it was 10 years ago...less people, nice fishen, quiet mostly...but it has changed so I deal with it an look as change as something good.
My intent here is to remind everyone who reads my rambling of this....helping is way better than grumbling.
The adult thing to do...can be fun also.
Please stop finger type arguing about these things.
If someone feels so deeply about the fish or the lake or the community one of the events are on or around...maybe jump in an help make it even better instead of just typing about it.
Seems fruitless to just finger type nasty junk back an forth.
DNR in all states know best...will do best to see everything done correctly...for fish, lake, community...I would hope.
Managers of this event or others need input like anything else....beating new things down is no good....helping make things come off well or be done correctly is way to go.
Finger typing online is not the way to get anything done......please try to be more open minded and adult about these things.
We all are only given so much time on this trip called life....try to make the most of it.
Thanks for your time.
Tommy Wehler
PS.
Thanks to bunches of you, some i do not even know.... for the kind words an letters, cards an E-mails the last couple months.
Help me big time...more than you all will ever know.
Told that old cancer to go back to hell an stood tall an gave the finger to the devil as I have done a long long time now.
Getting back to biz as usual round here so ....have no fear...I'M STILL ALIVE AN WELL!!!
Nuff said....but thanks.
www.muskytomsguideservice.com
Edited by KidDerringer 1/12/2009 8:21 PM
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| Not trying to cause a problem here Steve, but can someone answer my question please?
How can you hold a tournament on Holcombe...on Labor Day weekend...two weeks before the Frist Wisconsin Tournament and not expect to harm the fishery.
John Mich
Lake Holcombe Flowage Homeowner |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Sure, I'll be happy to now that your post is in the form of a reasonable question.
The Muskie Anglers Circuit tournament is immediate catch and release, and is scheduled to be held on Sunday and Monday. There are many waters with two weeks in between events all across the country, and most of those events are NOT immediate CPR. I'd bet quite a few of the folks up there will be on the way home when the anglers check in off the water Monday, they certainly are in most areas across the state. I'd ask you how you anticipate that an immediate CPR event 'harms' the fishery? Stop over to the headquarters for the virtual check in and see how this is done, you'll be much more comfortable after seeing the fish are out of the water less than 30 seconds in most cases. We also have a conservation fund that will be given to the local Muskies Inc club or DNR for stocking or habitat management on that water.
All in all, the MAC will leave no footprint other than a considerable boost to the local resorts, motels and restaurants, gas stations and other retail establishments, and will offer a little back to the fishery in return for visiting the area.
KidDerringer,
Good to hear all is well, you had a few of us a little concerned. great news!!
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| I believe most people feel that any fish caught by another fisherman is harming their fishery regardless if the fish is released or not... |
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| I believe the local economy on and around vermilion would benifit more from a september tournament. It's pretty busy around there during July and August.
If you have ever fished Vermilion after one of the MMTT July tournaments then you know what kind of added pressure the tournament brought to the lake. The pressure I'm referring to is not from the tournament anglers but from their results. Once the news gets out that their has been a 1/2 dozen 54" fish caught everybody and their brother flocks to the lake, a lake that is already getting the flocked kick out of it. A sptember tournament just makes more sense to me and I would think the more skilled anglers would agree.
As much as I hate to say this I believe a september tournament will eliminate the chance of fish being snagged.
I wish you all the luck with your tournaments |
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Posts: 425
Location: Roseau | I dont get it, lakes are public waters for everyone to fish. If one boat shows up on a weekend or 1000 boats show up, it doesnt matter, everyone there to fish a lake has that right because it is public water for eveyone to enjoy. I wish i had the money to fish the MAC, sounds like it would be a fun time! |
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| I really don't think that my previous questions were out of line Steve, however I'll accept your answer to this one.
I understand the footprint therory and believe me I have no problem with tournaments on my lake...there are some every year. I guess I don't like the timing of this one (Labor Day weekend).
Just my opinion I guess. |
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| Theirs a lot of folks out there that don't understand why we fish for these fish only to release them. Maybe we should just thump them all because we can and it's legal to do.
I think that would get us to where we are headed a lot quicker in the state of MN.
personally I would rather see a trophy fishery, wouldn't you? |
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| Jerome - The 3rd tournament is the Lake Vermilion Muskie Challenge. Weekend of Aug 8. Already has a permit. |
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Posts: 1220
| I am sorry if I am misunderstanding something here, but just for the record...if a tournament has to include a non-weekend day along with a weekend day...my vote is for Friday-Saturday rather than Sunday-Monday. Obviously, that's my personal work schedule problem, but while all things are still being considered...I wanted to toss that out. Marty Forman |
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| BenR - 1/12/2009 10:20 PM
I believe most people feel that any fish caught by another fisherman is harming their fishery regardless if the fish is released or not...
'Ya think? |
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Posts: 3156
| it is the reg on vermilion that you cant use both the weekend days.
also another muskie tournament applied for this very same weekend on V but was asked to change it to another weekend,,ruled to change it or asked Im not sure I could find out |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The permit apps are on the way, and the MAC will respond to the MNDNR as needed.
In answer to some concerns:
I have had ONE phone call from a concerned angler. One. I answered the questions, and he was no longer concerned.
A few folks are concerned over permitting if Internet chatter elsewhere is any indication. As expressed if we need to adjust locationsor datsw we will, and very soon.
Others say that if the field is not full, the payouts will equal or be less than other events. Not true. If a MAC event has a field of 90 boats (a possibility explored in a couple events given the economy) the payout will still be larger than most offer.....with a full field. Paying more back before contingencies and paying a very substantial Team of the Year check is a given. Contingencies are already coming in. For example, the Top finishing Team fishing from a Tuffy Boat in each MAC event will receive a check from Tuffy for $1500.00.
We answered a few questions here when voiced reasonably, and some took the discussion elsewhere to continue complaining; that also is expected. MAC will have it's own website soon, and until that time will answer questions about released info here, and no where else. If you want the true skinny on MAC, you will need to ask MAC the questions. Gossip is what it is, and most of the objections so far have come from folks with no intention to fish the Circuit or those who feel the MAC might compete with an event they hold. Our intent is and will be to do our best to keep our schedule separate from that of other events, and we have tried very hard to accomplish that. No matter what MAC does with dates and locations, we are bound to conflict with other events that are as much as two weeks removed.
As far as the concern about 'big. flashy boats' roaring off in a huge pack', not to worry. The ease out in the morning will be one boat at a time, with plenty off room between them to ensure safety. The return check in will be handled in a similar manner.
This Muskie Anglers Circuit is here to stay, and will grow, sponsorships are coming in, and cities are already calling to ask if we are interested in their location in 2010. Unlike many other circuits, we will not ask for/demand compensation from a community to take a MAC event to a good location. If the community wants to contribute to the MAC overall, we will apply that amount to the conservation fund and a check will be handed to a local MI club or the DNR.
The Can/Am Challenge is in place, and information will be out very soon on this exclusive and exciting Invitational/International event to be held on LOTW in NW Ontario.
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Posts: 697
Location: Minnetonka | Steve, is the Can/Am Chalenge a part of the MAC or is this a separate event?
From the post I am assuming the it is an MAC Best Of The Best Tourney. (?)
If this is not the case, how does one earn the invite?
Thanks!
Andy
Edited by Hammskie 1/14/2009 10:05 AM
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Location: Watertown, MN | Steve
Something I forgot to ask about the Team of the year award, how will the scoring for that be measured, total inches, or by best average finish of each event.
Thanks
Troy |
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Posts: 5874
| lawyer on the line - 1/12/2009 4:56 PM
You can use ONE weekend day for a tournament in MN. You will need to reschedule for Friday-Saturday or Sunday-Monday if you want a two day event that involves a weekend. That's the current law I believe.
Not true.
From the MN DNR Regulations.
"The DNR may require that multiple-day permitted fishing contests may not include more than one weekend day from Memorial Day weekend through Labor Day weekend."
MAY require is the operaive here. |
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Posts: 1060
Location: Medford, WI | Thanks for helping put this together Mr. Worrall. As mentioned earlier in the post, I probably won't have the money to fish the MAC this year; but I really appreciate the effort for a more fishermen/women (or should I say competitor) - focused tournament. I really like the immediate release for these tournaments and hope that other anglers will understand the benefits of this. Thanks again; I look forward to fishing these events when I am able to.
-Jake Bucki
P.S. Labor Day on Holcombe will be a crazy one, but I'm positive the planners took this into consideration already. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The Can/AM is a MAC event, but is operated by our Canadian counterpart. It will be a National Team against National Team event for total points as to which country takes the honors, but the rest will be pretty much as the other MAC events are run. A Canadian Captain will form a committee to select the teams invited to compete as will the US Team Captain.
Team of the Year points will be accumulated by team position in each event. Expect a Press Release next week on the Can AM. |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Shep,
As of yet, the DNR has not let any muskie tournament use both Sat. and Sun.
On Leech as well as Vermillion there will be a tourney the weekend before and after the MAC event. I serously doubt the DNR will let them use both Sat. and Sun.
On Leech there is the Portage Bay tourney on the previous weekend, and the Muskies Inc. Chapter Challunge is during the week after the MAC scheduled event.
JS |
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| "A few folks are concerned over permitting if Internet chatter elsewhere is any indication. As expressed if we need to adjust locations, we will, but moving a day forward or back may fix any issues. We will see, and the weekends listed are in stone. "
If the dates are set and there is trouble with permits etc. Will the lakes change?
Like ex. Vermilion doesnt work permit wise, could it switch to Mille Lacs?
Trying to set my calander
Thanks |
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Location: Watertown, MN | MN allows weekend events, most MMT are saturday sunday, Vermillion the DNR has set the precedence that they have required all musky tournament to be a FRi/Sat event(for 2 day events). I believe the permitting is subject to the input of the local fisheries manager.
Troyz |
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Posts: 726
Location: Eau Claire, WI | I am one of the guys Steve alludes to in an earlier post. My comments are over on MH. I stand by my comments. I have contacted Steve directly and I have expressed multiple times that I'd like to help and I'm interested in the format/event in question. My comments have been both of praise for the format and criticism for the event dates/size. I have fished PMTT in the past and I organize a tournament that includes Holcombe. So I'm hardly "anti". The only reason I didn't post here is that I wanted to speak freely and that doesn't always happen. Thats fine, this is a privately owned site. m1st created this environment and you control it. If I felt that I could have made the same comments here then I would have. I've been active on this site for many years but felt that this is not one where I'd be able to post my thoughts without receiving an edit or removal.
I've tried to offer alternatives and I've done so in a spirit of cooperation. I've laid out my concerns in a logical respectful fashion. I am glad to hear about the ease out/in for the starts.
The fact remains, a 120 boat event over Labor Day on Holcombe is a lot. It will be a zoo. I hope thats all it amounts to.
So, again, good luck with the venture. I'm here to help if I can and you allow it. Please consider what I've said because it's valid and its a view that many share, it just happens that its me doing the talking out here. I'm stupid like that. But, I'm not alone on this. Whether as a contestant or an observer, I will be out there. And I'll be sharing my observations, admitting if I was wrong, and pointing out where I was right.
Jon Olstadt
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Reasonable and insightful critical comments always remain. Direct attacks, unreasonable commentary and attempts to start a 'fight' won't. You know that by now, and it isn't an accident this place is so busy.
I believe most of your comments have been addressed., and of course your assistance as MAC nears the date of this event would be very much appreciated.
It's MAC's belief an event that requires a $50 per person entry is in little danger of losing participation from the MAC event a couple weeks prior. If local teams decide to fish the event, I'd be more than willing to bet they'd be looking at the MAC as an opportunity to fish a major event, and Pre-fish for yours.
In answer to your question about why Minocqua is scheduled for June:
Because the MAC is joining forces with Rollie and Helens on the dates they traditionally held their event on Minocqua/Lake Tomahawk waters.
As to having our house in order, we have the paperwork in process for the events in January, 6 months ahead of the scheduled events. There are, according to the MNDNR, hundreds of permits to consider at this point so it's obvious not all events applied for have been decided as of yet.
The MAC dates are set, the locations are applied for, and if adjustments of a date or location need to be made they will be minor and the MAC will react quickly. Everything else is ready to go!
before the Event:
When MAC arrives onsite, a wrapped self contained tournament headquarters truck will arrive, a stage will be deployed, boats, motors, and other items will be put on display, and a sound system and electronic display will be deployed under a sheltering awning. MAC will connect it's media center to the Internet...and everything will be presented live, in photo galleries, and using live and archived streaming video from that point forward. The original Muskie Fantasy Angler will be revived right here on MuskieFIRST.
As to the focus of the Muskie Anglers Circuit:
Of course, the fish were considered. Immediate release. No transport, no judge boats, no holding the fish at boatside for a witness. it's our opinion the fish are first, and the format reflects that clearly.
The MAC focus for the folks watching the event is on the TEAM, the ANGLERS, not the Circuit itself. If you want an example of the coverage you will see, the video content, and the live streaming 'weigh in' ceremonies run by Jim Kalkofen, look at these links:
Live Leaderboard:
Leaderboard, updated Saturday with EVERY legal fish caught. Click on an angler's name. After MAC and PMTT run a year's data, this could happen for the Teams fishing the events. Look for Bio information and team highlights in either case:
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/leaderboard/llb.asp?t=761
Video coverage, morning and evening:
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/leaderboard/llb.asp?t=761&view=med...
Watch a few. really, do that, it's important for perspective as to what will happen at a MAC event. Want to know what strategies are in play by the top teams on Day One? You will. Want to see what the leaders are thinking before they launch on day two? You will. Yes, all those videos on that page are from ONE event.
Image galleries, morning and evening:
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/leaderboard/llb.asp?t=761&view=ima...
Literally hundreds of images from each morning and evening, and from the water during the event.
Live Stream:
Right on the front of at least two and probably three websites, crystal clear, and like you are there at the stage. The In Fisherman PWT had OutdoorsFIRST stream their events in 2008, and FLW encouraged the same. The fans loved it.
There's more to come. its a darned big 'house', and it's in order.
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Location: Eau Claire, WI | Well Steve, I've said "I think it will have an impact but how much remains to be seen". So what I meant is this: I am not sure how much how little. I never said our event will be destroyed but yes having something that close does bother me. But I prefaced the comments with "personally speaking". You see, I wasn't speaking for an organization, I was speaking for myself. thats it. But, if we do lose some and you are truly going to help our chapter out as part of the conservation fund then it might work out just fine for us financially IF there is a problem. And again I like "work together" so you let me know how I might be of service to MAC.
The majority of my concerns center around pressure on those days on that lake. You think it's no big deal, I think it is. Other than the ease in/out, nothing more has been discussed on this. Its the most important issue I've raised.
I sent you an email this morning. You can respond back anytime you like or we can talk on the phone. I think phone is the way to go at this point. My number was in the email.
Thanks,
Jon
Edited by Jono 1/14/2009 2:56 PM
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| john skarie - 1/14/2009 10:36 AM
Shep,
As of yet, the DNR has not let any muskie tournament use both Sat. and Sun.
JS
You guys need to stop making general statements as if they are fact. This statement is simply not true, as Troy pointed out.
But I won't be fishing either of the MN tourneys, so I will bow out of this part of the discussion.
Edited by Shep 1/14/2009 1:51 PM
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| Wow, that worked pretty good! No posts in over 24 hours!
See you all at the Milwaukee Expo Swap and Social.
Edited by Shep 1/15/2009 3:00 PM
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
I wasn't making a "general" statement, I was repeating what I was told by the DNR. The gentlemen I talked to when getting a permit last year did not say it was up to them, he said they didn't allow it.
So, my bad, whatever.
Now I've been told that regional managers will allow both weekend days on certain lakes but not others no matter who the group getting the permit is.
I guess we'll see what happens.
JS |
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| John,
My comment was not pointed only towards you. There is/was a bunch of bad/non-factual information on this forum and on MH. No offense intended towards you, but it bugs me when all theses supposed bad issues are presented without factual information.
And yes. We will see what happens. Personally, I don't have any stake in whether this circuit comes off or not. I don't have a problem with any of the dates or locales. As with all things in life, you can't please evryone all the time. And you will agree that some of the complainers and accusers don't have any intention of fishing any tourney, much less this one, and are not affected with the outcome of this circuit in any way. So why all the bashing and personal attacks from them? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | No one has asked what MAC has planned to address the situation, yet quite a list of inaccurate assumptions have been made by a list of a few people who have no intention whatsoever to fish the event.
Use your phone to call MAC, and you might be a bit more comfortable with the plans after speaking with us.
If indeed the application is rejected MAC will rapidly adjust the schedule. That will create a situation where we undoubtedly will conflict with another event, but it will be clear we tried to avoid that.
John, I can be reached at 715.362.1760.
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Thanks sir, It was a pleasure speaking with you. |
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Posts: 273
| The WMT has a tourney on Memorial Day, and if memory serves me correct this will not be the first time they have done so during Memorial Day weekend.
Either way i don't care holiday tourney or not. You fellas have been entertaining the last couple of days to say the least. Hopefully the cold breaks soon so we all can find something better to do than argue about our lakes and how others want to use them.
Jeff |
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| J_mich - 1/15/2009 4:58 PM
A WI fisheries Biologist that I spoke with today stated that the biolagical reasons alone should cause this event to be switched to a less popular weekend. The State of Wisconsin has tournament rules with regards to overcrowding.
Biological reasons? Please state the name of this WI DNR Biologist, and exactly what he said are the "biological" reasons. How does the extra boats on the water this tourney would bring affect the fish "biologically"?
As for the State having rules to prevent overcrowding? Not true. Not at this time.
You keep posting stuff that is simply not true. You are not helping your case.
The proposed changes to the permit process here in WI call for a 10 acre per boat minimum. I've seen Holcombe on Holiday weekends. 500 boats is a bit of an exaggeration. But even still, you make it sound like all the tourney boats will be doing is running around every second of the day. Fact is, the only time the majority of the tourney boats will be up on plane at the same time is at ease out in the AM, well before the majority of the pleasure boaters will be on the water, and to a lesser extent, near the end of tournament hours. I think that this tourney will not have the full 120 boats. Not sure how many there will be, But I may be one of them. I said I will not fish either of the MN tourneys, and did not say I wouldn't fish either of the WI tourneys.
I talked to a prominant member of the 1st WI MI chapter about fishing this tourney, and he said. "If they want the tourney there….I will go with the flow as long as its not the weekend before our fall tourney fundraiser. I would like a two or three week gap to make sure both events get quality fishing." I certainly respect his opinion on just about anything muskie related.
Edited by Shep 1/16/2009 9:36 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | We had already dealt with the possible issues, mostly just perceived as Shep points out, before we scheduled this event. We spoke on the telephone with the two folks posting the reasonable questions, and they now have a better feel for what the Muskie Anglers Circuit event on Holcombe will look like, and are now looking at the event in a different light.
Anyone with questions about daily operations at any event can call me at 715.362.1760. For registration, brochures, and other information, call 800.359.4416. Ext. 128. |
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| Shep,
Mr. Mich gave me a phone call yesterday.
The biological reasons are as follows:
1-high water temperatures (most likely the highest of the year). Oftentimes temps are over 80 F that time of year on the Big H.
2-120 boats with 2 fishermen per boat (most very good fishermen) can and most likely will catch many fish. These fish (in my professional opinion) will suffer additional stress related to high water temperatures and the angling experience (recording fish size). So, even if only half the participants catch a fish that could be as many as 120 dead muskies. Biologically that is significant.
Having said that, I am not responsible for issuing the permit for this tournament, and have no stake in this argument. I think of the fish first. Not competition, fun, sport, fame or MONEY.
Biologically tournaments aren't bad, but if they risk the "publics" resource they can be. This is not just true for this proposed tournament but any tourament in late July, August, or Early September in Wisconsin.
Regards,
Jordan Weeks
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| Is the payout for 1st place with 60 boats $15k then?
Would be interested to know what 1st place will be with say 60, 75, and 90 boat fields. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Jordan,
All due respect, sir;
There are many, many events earlier during the traditionally warmest times of the year and many require restraining the fish at boatside or transporting the fish. I'd argue very strongly that we could easily find water temps in the high 60 to low 70 degree range if there is an average temperature period leading up to the event, which is at the end of the first week in September this year; a week later than Labor day last year. Last year, a major cold front moved through around the 3rd, and water temps across Wisconsin dropped significantly.
The event hours will be very early, and the field will be off the water early, avoiding the highest water temps and lake traffic for the day. There is another major Muskie circuit event just 5 days later in the same geographical area, I've seen nothing at all about water temp concerns there or with the four WMT events held during that general timeframe.
If, indeed, the water temps are too warm for the safety of the fish at the advice of the fisheries manager over there, the Muskie Anglers Circuit will postpone the event. That information has already been posted, by the way.
The average catch percentage in Muskie competitive events across the midwest are in the 15% of the field high end, and 10% low end. It is extremely ( talk about an understatement..) unlikely 120 fish would be caught, in fact, nearly impossible. It is much more likely the number of fish caught will be in the 18 to 25 fish range for the event. 60 fish a day would be....it won't come even close to that and suggesting it may is sensationalism at the least. So is suggesting the mortality rate of CPR in average September SEVENTH water temps is 100%. If that were true, with the July muskie angling pressure out there..well, you get the point.
I also talked to Mr. Mich yesterday on the phone for over 40 minutes, and he didn't say a thing about concern for water temps or handling of the fish, in fact he said he felt the level of expertise led him to believe the fish would be carefully handled.
http://www.wnrmag.com/stories/1996/dec96/weather.htm
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/caer/ce/news/or/2008/or080911.htm
( Above link:DNR September 11, 2008 Wisconsin Report, A musky tournament in Vilas County last weekend attracted more than 700 anglers who registered 64 muskies over 35 inches, including one 49-inch fish and four more over 45 inches) That event would have been held on about the same dates.
Again, if you have any concerns, call me at 715.362.1760. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | No tourney has ever cought 120 fish and never will...... no way.
I've fished over 30 or so events and never seen any dead fish, but that doesn't mean some fish don't die.
The people that fish these tournaments handle alot of fish and are very quick and well versed in proper release techniques.
I'd say 20-30 Fish caught in a tourney is more of an average number. |
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| J_WEEKS - 1/16/2009 5:00 PM
Shep,
Mr. Mich gave me a phone call yesterday.
The biological reasons are as follows:
1-high water temperatures (most likely the highest of the year). Oftentimes temps are over 80 F that time of year on the Big H.
2-120 boats with 2 fishermen per boat (most very good fishermen) can and most likely will catch many fish. These fish (in my professional opinion) will suffer additional stress related to high water temperatures and the angling experience (recording fish size). So, even if only half the participants catch a fish that could be as many as 120 dead muskies. Biologically that is significant.
Having said that, I am not responsible for issuing the permit for this tournament, and have no stake in this argument. I think of the fish first. Not competition, fun, sport, fame or MONEY.
Biologically tournaments aren't bad, but if they risk the "publics" resource they can be. This is not just true for this proposed tournament but any tourament in late July, August, or Early September in Wisconsin.
Regards,
Jordan Weeks
I am sorry, but your reason's and numbers aren't backed up by any facts. Half the field catching fish? You give these guys way to much credit. hehehe
Which fish get additional stress? Only those fish caught by tourney anglers? Or any fish caught that weekend? |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | I am also interested in knowing what the payout may be with a 50-60 boat field as I think that is more realistic for the first year. Estimate # would be fine. The last thing I want to do is fork out $750+ on an event, and only have a chance at $10,000 or less.
Top H2O before making generalizations make sure you do your research. Even though the National Championship Musky Open has 1000+ anglers it sees well over 100 fish caught the last couple of years. So don't say NO tournament has ever done it.
http://www.muskyclubsalliance.org/MCA%20Musky%20OpenResults2008.htm...
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Location: The Yahara Chain | I have a very hard time believing that the water temps will be at 80 degrees. I am looking at my water temp records from the Yahara Chain, Madison, WI. We are over 200 miles south of there. The water temps down here have ranged between 68 and 76 degrees on Labor Day weekend. They are nowhere near the hottest temps of the year.
Edited by Bytor 1/16/2009 7:54 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The first place payout with a 60 boat field will be about 15k, yes. No skimming here, we pay out the same base percentages no matter the field size.
CiscoKid, The ratio is the same in that event. Semantics when arguing the field size H20 was looking to compare. !000 anglers...100 fish...low end of 10%. Right? If 50% of that field caught a fish, it'd be 500, not 100. I'd also argue the venue with that event is radically different than most tournaments.
Bytor, One cannot just compare 'Labor Day weekend' without looking at where it falls. This year is a full week later than last year, and I agree with your observations, they are much like mine here in Rhinelander.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | No reason to apologize here. The anglers who fish the MAC will treat your water and your fish with great care. Attend the Rollie and Helens MAC in Minocqua first weekend of June, and see how the event operates, it'll help your concerns quite a bit, I'd think. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Travis,
I was talking about a field of 120-150 boats, not a thousnd person muskie tournament. Sorry.
Jerome |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | WOW, looking through all this I can see both side of this discussion. I have fish most of the lakes the MAC is going to be on. I have fish the PMTT, WMT, IMTT and other tournaments for years. People have to understand that most of these tournaments and anglers are good for the areas in most ways. There is always some bad you can come up with but most is good. I could go on and explain but that's only going to stir the pot.
People have to remember that the average catch for a tournament is around 10%. Some times it higher and some times it's lower. Now you take quality anglers who care about the fish, how they are handle and the tournament rules set to protect the fish first. Most of the time they are handled and released far better than the local fishermen or incidental catch by a walleye, bass or pan fishermen. Tournaments are not as bad as some make them out to be.
Now if the MAC helps the local lakes or clubs who help the lake with support toward the lakes fishery one can't help but think it's all good for everyone. Not everyone will be happy but most of the community will profit from each event. think about all the money that comes into town and even some angling patterns that will be learned by some who never tried that. Lots to be learned from tournaments. Maybe some just don't want others to learn how good certain patterns are or spots on the lake. I can see that.
Tournaments are hear to stay people. It's better to work with them and learn how to help them do what's best for that fishery. Most if not all tournament organizers will be happy to listen and accept advice and help. Like Jono, he is not into it but he is willing to do what is best for that fishery. Great guy with a love for muskies. He is one of the good guys who will say what many others want to say and stand up and help make a difference.
Tournaments are not that bad as far as boat pressure. Ease out is one at a time as stated and maybe some excessive traffic at the end while getting back into line at the end. I have fish tournaments that I thought would be a zoo and it was not bad. Muskie guys tend to pound spots rather than run and gun. Local pressure gets way out of hand on holiday weekends, by far worse than any tournament. And fish are handled worse by those anglers than tournament anglers. So now are we going to try and stop the weekend warriors from hurting our lakes?
If you really want to make a difference on your waters that are tournament waters I suggest helping the events in some way. You might be surprised at what you see and how they are run. The MAC is something I am looking into. I have to believe it is going to be the leader in the Muskie Tournament. So far I like how it's being thought out and the "Whats Best for the Fish" attitude.
Sorry if I pissed off some with this post but it's my 2 cents. I have fish quite a few tournaments in my life and I feel most tournaments are not bad for the lakes or communities. They are actually good for most. Lost of hype is also good and bad but that is another issue.................. |
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| Steve,
I hear where you are coming from and understand. As a professional fisheries biologist I am always concerned for the resource FIRST. Understanding that no where near 120 fish would be caught during the event really does not change my reasons for biological concern (which really cannot be disputed). I treat 1 or one hundred fish the same. I would think most of you would like me to do so...
Shep (whoever that is) called John out, so I spoke up.
My post was not an attack at the MAC or you Steve. I know you and have great reespect for what you do. You also know (as you indicated) that I have no say in this particular matter. Again, I stated my concerns-they are what they are.
This will be my last post-if ANYONE would like to talk to me regarding this matter further, you can find my phone number on the WIDNR website. I'd be more than happy to talk.
Regards,
JORDAN WEEKS |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Jordan, I hope I was able to answer some of your concerns, and I'm more than aware we are on the same 'side'. I appreciate your input. |
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Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Mike;
You made the statement that Holiday weekend pressure is "way worse" than in a tournament.
Woudn't it make sense than to not have them both coincide?
You then say that tournament anglers handle fish better than those "weekend warriors".
That's a statement that is insulting to us "weekend warriors" and completely unfounded.
That vast majority of non-tournament anglers are guys who have been fishing for years, many of them have caught more fish than guys in tournaments, and use the utmost care when handling fish.
'
When is the last time you heard of a tournament angler going barbless, not measuring fish, or not taking them out of the water at all.
To put tournament anglers on some kind of a level above that of the rest of us is very arrogant IMHO.
JS |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | which came first ... the chicken or the egg? |
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| which came first ... the chicken or the egg?
to get to the other side.
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Location: The desert | john skarie - 1/18/2009 3:47 PM
You made the statement that Holiday weekend pressure is "way worse" than in a tournament.
Woudn't it make sense than to not have them both coincide?
JS
What's wrong with a little traffic? Shouldn't the winner of a big musky tournament be able to deal with all sorts of situation? Isn't high traffic/pressure a situation musky fisherman face in some places? With a shot at big money, why make it a cake walk? |
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Location: Maple Grove | Pointer:
I think you should go back and read through the posts as has been advised to everyone else on several occasions. I think you'll more fully understand Mr. Skarie's point after that.
Joe Olstadt |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
My concern is in no way directed towards the hardship of the tournament angler.
Some common sense things like safety and the general public being disgruntled by a large group of tournament fishermen come to mind.
I'm glad you guys feel that these types of concerns are so un-warranted that you can make jokes about it.
It shows a lot of respect for the others that you share the water with.
It's obvious that these issues will not be addressed here.
Holcombe has had more than one fatal accident on holiday weekends in the past due to drunk boat operators.
I honestly hope none of you fall into a situation like that, even though most of you aren't willing to admit that this holiday tournament could be increasing the odds of something like that happening.
JS |
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Location: The desert | I understand John's point just fine. Was just using a quote as a base for my comment.
"Holcombe has had more than one fatal accident on holiday weekends in the past due to drunk boat operators."
So why not ban all traffic then? Make it illegal to be on the water on holidays. If I had the money, I'd fish it. It's about being a responsible angler and boater. I'd bet the MAC has taken the proper measures to prevent an incident.
The general public will be disgruntled about something, in some form or another, on just about any occasion. Sometimes you just ignore some groups of people.
No one has said these concerns are un-warranted, and has nothing to do with respect. |
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| sometimes a joke is just a joke, John, and meant to lighten the mood.
it's not intended to belittle your perspective, which is a reasonable concern and presented in a reasonable way.
in point of fact, as part of my professional development i actually spoke with one of the drunk boaters who killed some people at night up on nearby Wissota. holiday weekend traffic is a legitimate issue on any body of water.
anyone who says that it won't matter for the tournament boats and non-tournament boats to be out there on Labor Day weekend together is simply fooling themselves. personally i'm not sure it'll be a problem, per se, but it's definitely the reality and an issue worth discussing.
for example, i've fished Holcombe and it's relatively constricted since it's a river system. this is compounded when boat traffic is heavy. in light of this i'd be in favor of a tournament boat speed limit (40mph?) as part of the rules for that event.
as for fish handling, i think it's fair to say that most anglers willing to pony up $750 to fish a tournament are experienced and likely to be skilled at safely and quickly returning the fish to the water. on top of this i think everyone agrees that the rules are designed in a way that gives good measurements while also being fish-friendly.
obviously there are many skilled non-tourney anglers who do this also.
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Well as someone who has put on over a dozen tournaments, it's also about being a responsible tournament organizer.
Which means you do your best to avoid conflicts with the rest of the people who also use the waters.
Call MAC??
I think they are well aware of every issue and point of view that's been brought up here.
I also think it would be pointless as others have already done that.
JS |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Yes, others have called. Reasonable folks with a dog in this hunt should.
We will be off the water well before the bulk of the Sunday traffic gets out there. Monday will even be less of an issue, because most 'vacationing' folks are on the way home that afternoon, ask anyone trying to travel. We are launching from a private facility, and will not have a single boat parked in anyone's way. There will be event enforced 'no wake zones' as well. Boats will come in using a flight system, so there will be no rush to the landing.
Anyone drunk and on the water at that early hour has a real problem.
Many other tournaments have taken place on Holiday weekends, with no disastrous results. AIM has an event on the 4th of July.
One needs simply to be off the water before the heavy traffic arrives, and those fishing the MAC on Holcombe will do exactly that.
By the way, the MAC rules, scoring system, what happens in case of a point tie, payouts, and all other pertinent details are available in the documents you will receive by calling 800.359.4416. ext 128.
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Location: Maple Grove | Can you post what the tournament hours for Holcombe will be? I am assuming by your post they will be different from the already posted hours.
Joe Olstadt |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The last boat should be off the water by 1 PM. |
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Location: Monee, Illinois | For some reason the other thread was removed....I aske there is there a web site for the MAC? If so what is it, I was not able to locate it on a google search....Thanks
Editor's note:
Not removed, moved. |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | The MAC website will be up and running within the next couple weeks, as stated previously. ALL the rules, registrations, scoring, and tentative schedule information is available from MAC by telephone request at 800.359.4416 or email at [email protected]. |
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| The MAC website address is http://www.muskieanglerscircuit.com/ . All official announcements will be posted there and I assume here as well. |
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| Hey John
I am having a hard time finding Jordan Weeks so I can contact him also.
Do you have his contact info?
I have a few questions that he may be able to help with.
Any help would be appreciated. |
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| This will be my last post-if ANYONE would like to talk to me regarding this matter further, you can find my phone number on the WIDNR website. I'd be more than happy to talk.
Regards,
JORDAN WEEKS |
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Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | My comment you quoted " tournament anglers handle fish better than those "weekend warriors"." was not meant to be taken like you posted. I fish on one of the most pressured waters in Wisconsin. I see weekend anglers that do not have a clue. Most are learning as they go. Weekend by weekend they get better and better at what they long to learn. I did not intend to insult anyone. Just pointing out what I have seen through my years on the water and tournaments. Please don't twist things around to argue.
John Skarie you said:
That's a statement that is insulting to us "weekend warriors" and completely unfounded. That vast majority of non-tournament anglers are guys who have been fishing for years, many of them have caught more fish than guys in tournaments, and use the utmost care when handling fish.
*YES, TRUE. Also they will be more likely to fish tournaments in the future because of it. Confidence and skills come with experience. Tournaments on their lake should spark interest. Perfect time to test skills against others with big rewards.
When is the last time you heard of a tournament angler going barbless, not measuring fish, or not taking them out of the water at all.
* Barbless fishing is your choice. Not measuring fish a fish in a tournament would be hard to do. Now it's bad to touch a muskie? I hear your points but lets get real. To put tournament anglers on some kind of a level above that of the rest of us is very arrogant IMHO.
*This is your words not mine. I stated that most tournament guys have experience and with that comes better care for the fish. Your idea of a weekend warrior is not the same as mine. Take a good look around you on any average weekend. Rental boats, pontoons, canoes, row boats, speed boats all are muskie fishermen too. Not that there is anything wrong with that but do you really think they all handle muskies with the same care as tournament anglers?
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| Mike
I have to agree with you on that one. I have seen many fish that people have misshandled and later came belly up. I am happy that they are out using the resorce but it takes time to learn what to do with a fish.
For the people that have been offended ask your self why we as musky fisherman spen so much time talking about good release and try to help others learn. If this did not happen the average person would not know how important good fish handling is.
As a guide and tournament angler myself I feel that I take more time than most doing what is good for the fish.
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| I am looking to get a hold of Jordan Weeks but I cant find him on the DNR site like he stated? ? ?
Anyone have the contact info for him?
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| http://dnr.wi.gov/staffdir/DNREmpRead.asp?PersonSNO=45275 |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
People who are new to the sport obviously don't handle fish like seasoned anglers do, tournament fishermen or otherwise.
But I'll stand by my contention that the vast majority of muskie anglers take as much or greater care of fish than tournament anglers do. To argue that tournaments are "ok" because tournament anglers are at another level of fish handling is simply ridiculous. They add a considerably amount of concentrated pressure on a lake that can't be ignored or made out to be a "non-issue" just because of the fact they are tournament "pros".
All being in a tournament means is you paid the entry fee, it doesn't mean you have a certain set of skills or experience.
JS
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| All being in a tournament means is you paid the entry fee, it doesn't mean you have a certain set of skills or experience.
true, it's not causal.
it is however highly correlated.
plopping down $750 for a weekend isn't something most relatively inexperienced muskie fisherman are likely to do. they might, they can, but it's less likely.
and really, isn't this sidebar just contention for the sake of contention?
thankfully we live during a time when fish are likely to be handled carefully by most of the tournament anglers and many of the non-tournament anglers. that's a result of hard work done by those who came before us.
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| Mr Skarie
Maybe you should spend some time fishing with some of us that fish tournaments. I would think that your view would change very quickly about who we are and what we do.
Also fishing tournaments takes a whole lot more than just paying the entry fee. |
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Location: Detroint Lakes, MN | I'm not trying to attack tournament anglers, I just don't agree with the argument presented by some of them that the pressure they put on a lake is somehow not as "bad" as that put on by others.
Most of them may be the exceptional fish handlers, but not all of them.
The very nature of a tournament requires extra fish handling, that can't be denied.
JS
Edited by john skarie 1/22/2009 11:16 AM
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| Point taken
But I dont get the extra presure thing no one says any thing about opening day and holidays when the presure is also at its peak? At least in a tournament situation you have people that respect the resource. |
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| "To argue that tournaments are "ok" because tournament anglers are at another level of fish handling is simply ridiculous. They add a considerably amount of concentrated pressure on a lake that can't be ignored or made out to be a "non-issue" just because of the fact they are tournament "pros"."
John, if tournaments are not "Ok" for the reason you state, and they also add a lot of pressure which you deem as not a good thing, then why is it "OK" that you fish them? Seeing as how you are on another website discussing your involvement in a MI tournament?
I don't get it? |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN | My point is that all anglers need to admit that pressure (or stress on fish due to catching, whatever you want to call it) is just as "bad" whether it's in a tournament or otherwise.
I fish one tournament a year these days, the MI chapter challunge.
I'm not going to try to convince anyone that our tournament is less detrimental to the fishery because we're "experts" at fish handling. Our impact is as great as anybody else's.
Guest, why do you feel those that don't fish tournaments don't care about the resource? Not one member if my MI club fishes "money" tournaments.
JS
Edited by john skarie 1/22/2009 2:56 PM
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| does the MAC have a website? |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Here it is, as previously posted. It'll be finished very soon.
http://www.muskieanglerscircuit.com/ |
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Posts: 75
Location: Aurora, IL. | John,
You made a very reasonable arguement long ago. And I beleive initially with the best intentions. Many of us "Pros" (please) do take exception to your accusations. Before we became "Pros" we also fished recreationally. Believe it or not us "Pros" fish even now recreationally. I think you'll agree everyone reading these posts is a fairly seasoned musky angler even if they are not referred to as a "Pro". The anglers I fish with "Pro" or not would sooner dive in the lake and give mouth to mouth to that fish and try and revive it than give disregard.
I suspect you and all your "Non Pro" pals would do the same. There isnt a "Pro" that would suggest otherwise.
Please stick to your original cause of pressure on fisheries where I believe we can find common ground and not on measuring one groups commitment level or skill level against the other. Unless... you'd like to fish one of those "Big money tournaments" and show us what you got!
Joe
Joe |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
My intent wasn't to measure one's skill level against the other, actually the opposite.
I believe different skill levels, or maybe a better term is levels of experience exist
in the tournament crowd as well as the non-tournament crowd.
So we all have equal impacts on the fishery as far as pressure/stress is concerned.
I don't think it's accurate to potray tournament fishermen as more fish friendly or more caring of the resource than those that don't fish them.
But that does not mean I don't aknowledge that many/most tournament fishermen are caring of the resource and the fish they pursue.
JS
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | I'm really looking forward to fishing this trail...... Can't wait...... Who else is interested enough to put up the time and money to experence something really cool, and entertaining, while doing something you love ?
Musky Fishing..........?????.....Do you think there will be muskies in Heaven?
Jerome |
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | I received the information today in the mail thanks for the quick response... |
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| Another "Yes", sound's like a good time and it helps the sport reach a new level. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | I like the bump board and photo format, but there will be no way to dock points for fish that are released dead. It might be far fetched, but how about tagging caught fish so floaters can be identified? I know, far fetched... just a thought. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Tagging would not be allowed by the DNR's of any state, and holding the fish longer to place the tag would be more harmful, IMO. |
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Location: Eau Claire, WI | Flambeauski, I agree it would be great to be able to i.d. mortality to its source.
However in WI, you'd need a scientific collector's permit to tag. Not that it couldn't be done but would be a logistical challenge getting permits for all anglers to do so. If limited to tournament officials only then the fish would be held until an official arrived and that basically destroys the whole immediate release premise of the digital photo/bump board format.
Jon
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| As of now I am planning on fishing 2 of these but it may be more.
I am waiting to see what is going to happen to the final schedule. It would seem that a few things could change slightly.
I dont think they are taking deposits yet and I hope they dont start till they have the tourney permits confirmed.
Steve I spoke with TJ at the show and he gave me and my partner some info on the starting positions and how that will be done. Have you come up with a final game plan?
Also when do you plan on taking deposits? I would hope it is not till after the permits are given the OK?
As a dedicated tournament angler and guide I think all people on this site have equal goals.
Trying to say that one group treats the fish or the water better or one form of pressure is differnt than a another simply a waist of time.
Some of these debates get a little far fetched you can tell it is the winternet season. |
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| Another "Yes", sound's like a good time and it helps the sport reach a new level
Topdog,
It's fair to say there are two directions of a new level.
As some have tried to say any negitive impact may not take to sport to the level you may be hoping for.
Dave |
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Posts: 217
Location: ladysmith, wi | i was just told this morning that the bridge on 27 by swedes will be under construction all this summer and that they will not be allowing boat traffic to pass under bridge while they are working on it thus cutting off the east side of holcombe just passing this info along and if this is true has the MAC accounted for this |
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | I have one question I received your information, what is the minn number of entries to run each sites event?
Edited by pgaschulz 1/24/2009 12:08 PM
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN | Steve;
Which leads to another question about said MI tournament. Our permit is for Aug. 26th - 28th. on Leech.
As per a conversation with MNDNR, you will not be permitted to run on the Sat.-Sun. you are advertising your dates for.
Are you going to choose Fri-Sat. or Sun. Mon. ?
We would definately prefer the Fri-Sat. out of consideration for our event, which was scheduled before yours.
John Skarie
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Firday and Saturday, if that's the bidding of the DNR, it will be. Not because of 'your' event being scheduled before 'ours', but because, for once, you asked a reasonable question/presented a situation MAC is willing to respond to reasonably.
There is, at this time, no minimum field of contestants.
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | Thanks Steve |
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| is there a guesstimate on when the dates will be finalized?
it's time to start planning vacations, etc. and it would help to plan for pre-fishing, etc.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | A few days, Mike. The process is pretty close to complete now. |
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Posts: 11
| Where are you getting the bumpboards from.
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Bumpboards are narrowed down to two suppliers at this point, but still open to bids. The Muskie Anglers Circuit will be purchasing 125 boards. |
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Posts: 11
| Who do I need to talk to so I could bid on them? |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Send an email to the Muskie Anglers Circuit.
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Posts: 11
| Thank You. |
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| Good to see ego over fisheries. NOT!  |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | What? I don't have any idea what you are trying to say. |
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| A tourny on the busiest time of year oh by the way the 3rd one in 4 weeks during the hisoricly highest H2O temps of the year. Some of us in MN would like to get new waters but I'm afraid with all of you tourny guys ripping around prefishing & stuff just gives the anti-muskie people more motive to fight any new lake efforts. IMHO. |
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Location: The desert | Ripping around and fishing dont really go hand in hand. Hard to do both. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | dc,
First, you need to read everything that's been said here. Second, you need to check with the MAC to see when the MAC event on Vemiilion ( I believe that's what you are referring to) is scheduled now. Third, Hartmans is the week before the days we originally requested (and HE originally requested the same dates MAC did), tell me what average temps are that week. We checked, and usually, temps are well within limits for safe muskie handling and release. Additionally, MAC wouldn't have gone ahead if overly warm waters (unlikely) were a problem, working with the Tower Fisheries folks had we been scheduled for those dates. As was said but you didn't bother to read, we would have rescheduled.
There's more Walleye and Bass events by a long shot, in MN, right? Many on Muskie waters, right?
Fourth, as was said, 'ripping around' isn't what these guys do, they mostly fish.
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| We need to put some MuskyLINK bump boards on all their boats |
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Posts: 670
Location: Otsego, MN | Will the boards be "rented" with a deposit for the tourneys or can you purchase a "MAC" board to keep. I know fishing Hartmans, you can put down a deposit and return at the end of the tourney or just go ahead and buy the board to use all the time. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Boards will be distributed in the morning and picked back up in the afternoon.
For registration, rules, and scheduling information, see the Muskie Anglers Circuit Website for the MAC email number and 800 telephone number. |
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Posts: 227
Location: Maple Grove | Steve,
You keep telling folks to contact MAC via phone and email. I'm confused, aren't you and Outdoor First handling media and public relations? So the person staffing the phone and answering email at MAC has more info than Outdoor First can provide here? I think some clarification would be appreciated.
Joe Olstadt
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | OutdoorsFIRST will provide information as it is available and ALREADY RELEASED by the Muskie Anglers Circuit. The MAC website will be complete soon, and that's the place to get general info. Registration, rules, and associated information also needs to come from the official source, the MAC website and personnel for obvious reasons not the least of which is to limit contact to reasonable hours and with the person hired to convey information.
In the meantime, as promised in my post a few pages back, the MAC web page offers the telephone number, email address, and a PDF of the Rules/ Regs/ and a Application. More will come very soon.
OutdoorsFIRST is a SPONSOR, not the MAC. When the first event is in the can, you will be able to clearly see the separation.
Show me another Circuit that has EVER been tis accessible to the public. Now you know why it's not common practice.
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN | DC's concern is about the movement in MN (which many of you guys in WI probably don't know about) to stop current muskie stocking and make sure no new lakes are started here.
It's not a joke. No More Muskies started this several years ago, and was able to get stocking rates lowered on Lake Miltona with public pressure.
Now Anglers for Responsible Muskie Management (that might not be the exact name) have stopped proposed stocking on Gull and are still fighting to get muskie stocking stopped statewide.
Some of the very reasons they use to get other people on board are the muskie anglers are transient. They will come to your lake and spread exotics. They will "encroach" on other anglers and pleasure boater, and THEY WILL HOLD MORE TOURNAMENTS.
Yes walleye anglers and bass anglers hold many tournaments. But they are the ones that think muskies eat all the walleyes and bass, the very people are getting recruited to be "anti-muskie". Fair or not, to the public muskie tournaments, especially those put on "newer" waters are not looked on very favorably.
So this is a legitimate concern whether you admit it or not. The perception of the public towards muskie anglers will influenced by more tournaments, especially more large events.
You can either brush that aside or admit that it's a problem we in MN have to deal with.
As far as Hartman's tournament, he was asked by the DNR to move his dates due to fear of high temps. So there apperently is history of high temps during that time period, and already concern. What data were you using when you checked avg. temps, and what is your "standard" for being safe for tournament fishing?
JS
Edited by john skarie 1/26/2009 7:49 AM
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Anyone who reads this forum is aware of the anti-muskie groups over there, it's been a subject of conversation a few times here.
The vast majority of competitive Bass and Walleye anglers are very aware that Muskies do not 'eat all the walleyes'. I work with the walleye and bass pros every weekend all spring and summer, and assure you no one is recruiting them to push an uniformed or ignorant agenda. If anyone was trying to, the answer would be an emphatic NO.
The Competitive anglers I work with can be a very well spoken, educated, and organized group when it is necessary. I'd suggest that if you are concerned, you lobby for their considerable support that extends all the way to folks like the Lindners, Mark Dorn, Christine Houtman, and many other influential folks who were or are residents of your fine state. These folks have a voice and are willing to use it, if approached.
ALL out of state anglers are transient, and so to Vermilion are any from the Cities or south of there where many exotics already are present. That's a crap argument used to target competitive anglers with ZERO justification...because before each launch each day, the event coordinators are required to check every rig individually for exotics, and no angler out there is more informed than one who fishes competitively on many waterways across the country. MAC will invite the invasive species prevention folks from each state to speak at the rules meetings. I'd suggest you approach the Department of Tourism for help there, as far as I can tell, they are strongly encouraging folks from out of state to fish MN waters across the State, and they definitey have an interest to work with those who want added incentive for future tourism.
There was an event on Vermilion a few years back where some muskies were found dead the following week. That event was during that timeframe, and as a result, the fisheries biologist will not allow an event during that weekend even if the water tems are in the 60's. My question was, if the water temps are high that Friday, isn't it a reasonable assumption they would be the weekend before, especially in view of the ambient temp records from NOAA for that spread? And, the anti-tournament statement you are currently addressing ignored the MAC statement that no matter WHEN an event is scheduled, if the local fisheries biologist is concerned for the survival of the Muskies due to weather/water conditions, MAC will reschedule.
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
There are hundreds of walleye and bass tournaments in MN. The vast majority of anglers in these are not the guys fishing the "pro" circuit that know muskies don't eat all the walleyes.
They are the avg. angler that believes people like Dick Sternberg and others who are waging a war on muskies in MN. That is why the Gull lake deal fell through, because they buy into this stuff.
My point here is to try to convey why we in MN are very vocal and concerned when it comes to tournaments and the public perception of muskie anglers in MN.
A lot of you just think we're voicing concerns just because we have nothing better to do and hate tournaments. That's simply not the case.
You can argue that this problem doesn't exist all you want to. But it does, and the people who are the ones who are fighting to get new lakes in MN, and fighting the public wars are the ones who have to deal with this situation.
The transient angler argument if for ALL muskie anglers, has nothing to do with tournament fishermen. Whether it's crap or not, it's an argument used to sway public opinion from expanding our muskie fishery.
If you would take the time to sit back and think about this, maybe you'll realize that this isn't about MAC or tournament anglers specifically, but about muskie anglers and the perception of muskie in MN as a whole.
JS |
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| WOW
This is one heck of a read almost to much info to keep staight.
I think its about time to start a new thread or 2.
One for the people that are looking for information on MAC and its rules and such.
Then you can have one for the 2 guys that want to argue about what they fell is right and not listen to a word Steve or any one else for that matter has to say.
Beeing new to this site but looking for info on the MAC I will just contact MAC and get it over with.
As a note Steve I think you are doing a great job as far as answering every ones needs. |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Lambeau sees where I'm coming from here.
I hope people realize that there are legitimate reasons for concern.
I also hope people can see why there is more concern on Vermillion than on Leech. Vermillion is a stocked lake, granted it's always had some muskies in it, but that lake has changed very drastically in it's usage over the last 5 -8 years.
Leech has always had muskies and muskie tournaments.
The locals on Leech don't view muskies or muskie fishermen the same way as people on Vermillion do. It's a very different situation.
If you don't believe me, than spend some time in each area and talk to people.
JS |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | If there's concern that needs addressing how about those who are concerned work with all of us promoting competitive muskie angling events in MN and elsewhere to be certain all are presented and run in a manner that is constructive and positive and that we offer a strong and well coordinated combined message? Al Lindner thinks that's the way it should go, he basically said so just a few weeks ago. Work together, and allies are available to reach common goals. I gave a few other examples of folks who would be willing to help in one way or another. Influential folks, with a voice that will be heard.
The Muskie Anglers Circuit is more than willing to do just that, and if some folks would stop swinging bats at us so we can forge positive alliances, they might find distinct advantages to working together.
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Steve;
If you're going to act like the bat swinging is only coming from one direction than there won't be any cooperation.
I think all the concerns have been laid out. All it takes is some listening instead of acting like all the concerns have been addressed or they aren't valid in the first place.
MAC can choose to move Vermillion from summer to fall. I'm not sure what kind of cooperation that takes, it's your choice.
Holcombe is a WI issue, so I'm not going to go there, the WI fellows can deal with that.
I don't think these issues can be talked about anymore than they have been.
Later.
JS |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I made a suggestion directed not at any one person but at all who are concerned about competitive angling for Muskies no matter the context, and I was serious. I truly think here would be distinct advantages working together. I believe we all have common goals and a combined voice would be stronger against those who would limit or reduce our opportunities to enjoy our sport.
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| Ok how about fishing a lake that isn't having 2 or 3 touneys on it. There are many great lakes in MN try to only have one tourney on a lake a year. Not just talking your tourney but all of them. Sorry for not reading the whole post, but I have more important things to do than read a 250+ post thead. |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Is there a web page for this trail yet? |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | http://muskieanglerscircuit.com
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| i like the adjusted schedule.
that's a great move by the MAC.
Jerome Morris and i are teaming up for the full trail, deposit in the mail tomorrow!
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | The tournament dates are set and lakes also. This year is finished lets see how it goes then you can take your fight toward next years events. Give them a chance I think everything will be fine. |
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Posts: 244
Location: Mallard Island Lake Vermilion MN | MAC is now slated for September on sweet Vermilion ...so...................might work ...
They show some class moving it...even if it was only choice given...Don't know this...just guessing it was a choice.
Shows something....I like that.
Maybe partner up, jump in a have some fun...me that is...I know a few spots can be fun in September.
Plus know how to handle a fish an they likes me so they understand if I pinch an tickle a bit.
Its easy if you try, all ya got to do is stnad in one spot, but ya have to wiggle around a lil bit!!
Jump on in a bust a move!
SHAKE IT!
Wonder when other large one is going to go down?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?
Keep on rocken.
Tommy
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| Great decision on the move to September. I think you will find it a more positive experience with a lot less boat traffic that time of year. Would be a fun tournament to be in. Good luck to all of you participating in it! (I am jealous) |
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| Is the Vermilion tournament still out of Spring Bay? the reason I ask is that the brochure mentions Tower. That is the east end of the lake. Spring Bay is on the Cook end. Just curious. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The event will be headquartered just down the road from Spring Bay. Launch details will be released well in advance of the event. Call Spring Bay asap to get a reservation. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Sept. is a real good time for me on Vermilion, and no doubt the prettiest time of the year up here.
I'll look for you Muskie Tom. Can't miss that Big Lund.
Get the Net !! ........Lambeau,!! She's a Tanker !!
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Location: Rhinelander. | Concerns over tournaments are always brought up. I guess many by the people who fish the lakes often that they are held on or live there. I have fished hundreds of tournaments over a 30 year span. I would just like to say that its very rare to find a tournament angler that does not respect the lake,other anglers or the resource. In fact I believe that tournament anglers are very goos representitives for the sport of musky fishing. I think many of the fears are blown up to be a much bigger problem then they are. If you have fished many tournaments I think you'll agree with me and the concerns will all be set aside after a few of the tournaments have taken place.
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| NICE DATES for vermillion and leech lake. They are same weekend as MMTT tournaments. I know that MMTT tournaments are announced a year in advance.
Was going to try and fish both circuits but impossible now.
Trying to decide what circuit to fish. A BIG point is the fact that MMTT gives so much to the stocking program and muskie fishing. Does the MAC have any plans to give anything back to muskie fishing. I know Paul Hartman has done great job of giving back to the sport.
Undecided |
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| I would like to remind people that tournaments are a big part of the sport of muskie fishing. Certain tournaments are BIG fund raisers for our sport. Without them the stocking program would not be available.
Next time you try to think of negative effects you should look at the positives. |
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| I would like to remind people that tournaments are a big part of the sport of muskie fishing. Certain tournaments are BIG fund raisers for our sport. Without them the stocking program would not be available.
Amen to that! Now if only we can get the DNR to realize that we would be all set.
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Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | I would like to remind people that tournaments are a big part of the sport of muskie fishing. Certain tournaments are BIG fund raisers for our sport. Without them the stocking program would not be available.
Just curious if you have any data backing your claim there would be no stocking if not for tournaments. |
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| he said that "certain" tournaments are big fund-raisers for stocking. this is definitely something that Paul Hartman has been doing over the years: paying to rear and feed muskies in ponds for stocking. it's something that has involved both money and great personal effort on his part and others'.
in my mind, Paul's MMTT set the bar high for responsible muskie tournaments: using the most fish-friendly format along with a real commitment to giving back and expanding the resource. he's universally respected for this, and a downright likeable guy to boot. i've fished a number of MMTT events, they're well-run and extremely fun.
i think it's a compliment to him that the MAC has chosen to follow his format with bump-boards and digital pictures. the MAC has also stated that it will be making donations to local muskie conservation efforts in the areas that they conduct their tournaments.
it's unfortunate that there's a couple of date conflicts in MN between the MMTT and the MAC and some anglers will have to choose one or the other event. i suppose at some point that kind of issue is unavoidable since there are only so many possibilities, especially with the MAC changing their Vermilion schedule away from the original July date.
the payout rates are relatively close, with the MAC's rate being somewhat higher; the MAC costs more to enter, which also gives them more total money to distribute.
this means that if each tournament had the same size field of 50 boats, the MAC's 1st place prize is significantly higher, 2nd-10th place payouts are pretty much the same, and the MAC pays 11-16th place where the MMTT does not. the MAC also has some contingency awards from certain companies than can increase awards. obviously money (cost and payout both) isn't the only thing people consider when making a decision like this, but it is at least one factor.
at some point down the line it would be cool to see something happen with the MAC and MMTT doing some sort of combined effort... |
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| I don't fish tournaments, so I'm not sure how popular they currently are. Are these MAC tournaments expected to fill at an entry cost of $750.00 per event, or whatever it is? Thanks. |
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Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | Yes and then he said..."Without them the stocking program would not be available."
Here I was under the impression that my license dollars and various tax monies went to pay for things like stocking. Wasn't aware it was ALL thanks to tourney anglers.
Shoot in a few more years they'll probably be able to do away with license fees altogether!!
Please dont take my comments for anything other than what they are. I too think Mr Hartmann has done a great job with his events and am really excited to see how this MAC comes off. I think if the digital camera format goes well it wil lbe a giant step forward for live release tournaments!
I'll also say I have no desire to fish tourneys myself, just a personal preference sort of thing....just as I wouldn't want to be a Gigolo. To me some things are better done JUST FOR FUN!!
Edited by castmaster 2/4/2009 11:40 AM
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Location: Mallard Island Lake Vermilion MN | Man Gigolo's never get cut any slack!
Tommy |
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| KidDerringer - 2/4/2009 12:07 PM
Man Gigolo's never get cut any slack!
Tommy
I'm tellin 'ya rook, it just ain't fair is it?? We oughtta have a union or something! |
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| Muskie tournaments promote and give back to the sport. You should check into where all the money for stocking comes from and time donated for stocking and research. There are tournament fishermen putting many donated hours on the water working with biologist to help muskie fishing, donating time and money to get kids involved like the kids fishing tournament on vermilion. I would bet that isn't any FUN.
As far as the license fees your funny. You should check to see where that money goes.
And muskie tournaments are FUNNNNNNNNNN.
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| Nothing like a good tournament discusion to bring out the best in the winternet world.
After 10 pages we are still waiting for the information that this thread was about.
I hope that MAC is ready at the Milwaukee show. I was disapointed with the answers that I got at Chicago show. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The scheduling answers you got at Chicago were what were available at the time due to permitting issues. We COULD have taken a shot at dates that would have been easy to get but conflicted with the WMT or PMTT, but chose to take the high road and avoid those dates if possible.
Whatever information you need can be acquired by emailing the Muskie Anglers Circuit. |
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| Like I said before, I emailed MAC and never got a reply..At this point it is what it is and whatever you read here is what you get. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Perhaps you emailed MAC at the wrong address, or your email didn't go through; I get a copy of the emails sent to the address listed on the website and did not receive one from you.
You may view the PDF of the brochure, and download the MAC rules and entry forms at http://www.muskieanglerscircuit.com, that should get you the info you need.
[email protected]
I just tested the email address, and it works great!
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| So are the dates cast in stone for the Vermilion outing? and are you fishing the entire lake?
Chris |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Entire lake. We rescheduled to dates suggested by the fisheries folks up there, so we are very confident the dates for the Vermilion event are good to go.
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| the answer of very confident that the dates for the vermilion tournament are good to go scares me when you were asked if the dates are set in stone.
Are the dates set in stone? I didn't ask the question but would really like to know so I could make a decision on what tournaments to fish.
Thnak You |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'Very confident' means yes.
The Muskie Anglers Circuit email for specific questions, once again, is:
[email protected]
See you there!
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| Have you recieved your permits back for the dates that you requested?
I think this is a better question as far as are the dates set in stone.
Also last time I looked you did not have all of the rules on the site as you have stated. It would be nice if you would get all of the info and have every thing together so some of us can start the planning process for the events that we are going to fish.
I would also like to see more on the contingecy monies form other products not just Tuffy that you have stated that more were on the way.
For the biggest entry fee in the musky trails I would like to see what is bigger and better in MAC. |
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Posts: 32923
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | http://www.muskieanglerscircuit.com
The rules and entry form are available there. The rules that are not printed there will be specific to each event location and will be covered in the Rules meetings and on the web property.
[email protected]
For more information.
MuskieFIRST will publish press releases and offer general discussion on the Circuit, but specific questions about rules, venue, etc. should be directed to the Muskie Anglers Circuit at the web addresses provided.
'For the biggest entry fee in the musky trails I would like to see what is bigger and better in MAC.'
Higher payoutsand top prizes by a considerable percentage with smaller fields centered in Wisconsin and Minnesota.
Total Focus on the Teams and the Team's sponsors, not the Circuit.
Media coverage of the events like nothing seen before in the Muskie world, live webcast virtual weigh in ceremonies run by a Master of Ceremonies with 20 years of experience on stage with the In Fisherman PWT.
Contingencies in $ and product offered by MAC Sponsors
And more..
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| Perhaps it would be helpful if someone in charge at the MAC were willing to answer questions on MuskieFirst and sign their real name.
Also, I would love to be a gigalo!
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Posts: 697
Location: Minnetonka | sworrall - 2/4/2009 3:44 PM
We COULD have taken a shot at dates that would have been easy to get but conflicted with the WMT or PMTT, but chose to take the high road and avoid those dates if possible.
Any insight on why the MMTT schedule was not considered?
Andy
Edited by Hammskie 2/9/2009 9:19 AM
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Posts: 654
Location: MPLS, MN | Hammskie - 2/9/2009 9:15 AM
sworrall - 2/4/2009 3:44 PM
We COULD have taken a shot at dates that would have been easy to get but conflicted with the WMT or PMTT, but chose to take the high road and avoid those dates if possible.
Any insight on why the MMTT schedule was not considered?
Andy
Yeah, the MAC Leech Date is the same as MMTT Mille lacs and the Vermillion Mac date is the same as MMTT Cass/Leech. |
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Posts: 8824
| Obfuscate Musky - 2/10/2009 9:21 AM
Hammskie - 2/9/2009 9:15 AM
sworrall - 2/4/2009 3:44 PM
We COULD have taken a shot at dates that would have been easy to get but conflicted with the WMT or PMTT, but chose to take the high road and avoid those dates if possible.
Any insight on why the MMTT schedule was not considered?
Andy
Yeah, the MAC Leech Date is the same as MMTT Mille lacs and the Vermillion Mac date is the same as MMTT Cass/Leech.
I'd venture to guess that the only way to have no conflicting dates with other tournament circuits would be to hold all the MAC tournaments in January... |
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