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| If you were to buy a new motor, what are the pros and cons of each. I the four strokes are better on gas and quiter than the older two strokes but how to they compare to the E tec? How about maintenance, winterizing, problems, etc. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | As a general rule, 4 strokes are a bit slower out of the hole and have a little less top end speed. They are generally heavier. The 2 stroke DFI motors generally are a little 'greener' and get a little better fuel economy.
The 4 strokes are much quieter. They troll down a little better, too.
Winterizing any of the motors isn't a big deal to get done, but the E Tec is easiest.
Mercury Marine's DFI 2 stroke Opti Max is the best value on the water right now price/performance/warranty/service availability/all things considered. Suzuki has a great outboard, as do Yamaha and Evinrude. Yamaha is moving toward 4 stroke only but still has some DFI models for sale out there in the larger bores, Suzuki has 4 stroke only, Mercury has 2 stroke DFI, 4 stroke, and the 4 stroke Turbo charged Verado. Evinrude is 2 stroke DFI only, and doesn't have their own kicker yet, they use a Suzuki 9.9.
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| I bought a 4 stroke Suzuki and have been very happy with it. If I had to do it over I'd buy another Suzuki. I got a 6 yr warranty with mine, at no extra charge, that was a big factor at the time of purchase. Not sure you can go wrong with any of the motors mentioned above... |
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| awwww mannnn....
Brad made the right decision on his quest to be more like me....
The Suzuki 4 strokes are unbelieveable. Quiet, fast enough, awesome on fuel, etc...
They are amazing motors. 4 years in a row now with over 200 days on the water each year and not one single problem.
Mike Hulbert |
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Posts: 238
Location: Rhinelander | If things go as planned I will be in a new boat this spring and was researching what motor to place on her.
A good friend of mine owns a large dealership and he sells all of the above mentioned motors except Yamaha (they did at one time).....his advice in the 150hp range was hands down the 2 stroke Opti Max. I've known him from our grade school days and his choice most of the time was Evinrude years past.
His comments were the Opti's just flat out have less return visits and run like the wind. One now sits on his own personal rig and he can't say enough good things about it. I asked about 4 strokes and he said nothing wrong with them but overall cost savings and performance the 2 strokes still hold the upper edge. If a guy trolled with the main motor then he said maybe consider the 4 stroke. Just for information the brother I talked with runs the service and parts division and is a mechanic by trade, the sales brother agreed with his decision. He knows all these motors inside and out and I really respect his opinion.
I was leaning the E-tec way but will probably go with the Opti if my plans work out.
Edited by Hodag Hunter 12/5/2008 9:38 AM
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Posts: 5874
| They all are good motors, but the Merc Opti is the best motor value out there right now. The only thing another motor may have on it is quiet. But that is not to say the Opti's are loud. I rmember when the EFI's came out. Everyone was saying how tough they sounded. When Yamaha, Honda, and BRP were not gaining market share on Mercury, they started the quiet campaign. I'll take performance over quiet anyday!
Best hole shot, midrange and top-end performance. More fuel efficient, and as reliable a motor as you will find. Now that is an amazing motor. Fast enough isn't amazing. Good enough hole-shot isn't amazing. really good fuel mileage isn't amazing. The Opti is truly amazing. Two stroke power, and better than 4 stroke economy. |
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Posts: 1080
| What's the "real truth"  (and timing) behind the EPA wanting to put and end to 2-stroke motor production leaving only 4-strokes as the only option?
Edited by MACK 12/5/2008 3:33 PM
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The EPA doesn't want to end two stroke production. Only the carbed and EFI 2 strokes are effected. The new 2 stroke DFI engines are generally 'greener' than the 4 strokes. |
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Posts: 716
| I ran an ETec 250HO this year and was very impressed with it, quiet, fast, smooth and it also trolled down quite a bit less than the Opti's I had previously. |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | I've got a 200 E-tec and it is quiet, starts flawlessly, and the shocker is it used about 2/3 the gas my old 1991 vintage 150 did for a comparable period of fishing. I looked at the available motors and for me 4 strokes just didn't make any sense. Who needs a couple hundred extra pounds on the transom to do the same thing? I'd sooner carry those pounds in extra gear. |
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| Tuggs it is in your best interest to read Bass & Walleye boats magazine for some independant non-biased test results. I believe september/october issue had the test results you are looking for. Merc, Yam Evin, Suz & Honda were tested and the finals both suprised and impressed me. |
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| frusterating. talk to one buy they say etec, another says optimax, one suzuki and another yamaha. i'm looking for a 40 or 50HP and was leaning towards a yamaha as it would be nice to troll with and quite...and can get a good deal on it. I know nothing about motors, just looking for the one that will last me the longest without any problems. thanks for the input. |
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| here's a link to the Performance library online for Bass/Walleye Boats:
http://www.bwbmag.com/section.cfm?sectionid=309
there's a number of articles reviewing smaller motors such as the ones that you are looking at.
and here's a bunch of independent info comparing the larger motors:
Merc Opti, Suzi 4-stoke, Yamaha 4-stroke head-to-head:
http://www.bwbmag.com/output.cfm?ID=1122463
another interesting article comparing 2-stroke and 4-strokes:
http://www.marineenginedigest.com/specialreports/2versus4stroke.htm
ETec, Opti, HDPI 225hp DFI comparison:
http://www.bwbmag.com/output.cfm?id=1059733§ionid=309
technical details:
http://www.bwbmag.com/output.cfm?id=979759§ionid=307
similar 200hp DFI showdown:
http://www.bwbmag.com/output.cfm?id=1059625§ionid=309
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Posts: 5874
| Well, knowing that you want a 40-50 HP, that leaves out any 2-stroke from Merc. But the good news is the Merc 40-60 Hp are all EFI, are all Mercury, come in standard or Bigfoot models, and you can add Smartcraft guages for low speed troll control.
Yamaha makes a 50 HP 2-stroke, but it is carbed. The Yamaha 4-stroke line is solid, and is also fuel injected.
E-Tec are available in the 40-50 HP. 2 Stroke DFI technology. I don't see too many of these, but supposed to be good motors. Heavy though, as only the 4 stroke Suzuki weighs more than the E-Tec 40. Merc, Honda and Yamaha 4 Strokes are up to 60 lbs lighte than the 140 lbs of the E-Tec.
Suzuki has just the 4 stroke in the 40-60 HP, and they are EFI. Good motors.
Honda makes a 4 stroke, but the 40 and 50 are carbed. Old technology. |
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| Honda makes a 4 stroke, but the 40 and 50 are carbed. Old technology.
is that so bad? old, or proven?
http://www.bwbmag.com/output.cfm?id=1892557§ionid=309
What can we say? The BF40 EFI raises the bar on what a smaller outboard ought to be; over 10 mpg means you can do a lot of fishing on a little fuel. We like that.
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| if i were buying a new boat today ...
i've been running 2-strokes in boats and have also had the privaledge to be in a number of 4-stroke powered boats enough to have a comment on them.
my choice would be the 4-stroke for these reasons:
- not enough performance gap to be a problem in-fact more impressed in performance than anything
- quieter ... that's something i notice outright and really like
- no thinking about oil and whether it's full or not and no mess or cleaning the fill areas
- assumption here but fuel economy and eliminating purchasing oil would be noticeable
the boats i've been in are a crestliner 1850 musky edition powered by a 150 yamaha 4-stroke and a ranger 618vs powered by the same 150 yamaha 4-stroker.
the suzuki's i've seen and heard (that's a stretch cause it's hard to "hear" them) are equally impressive while running and reports i've heard from reliable sources match up to what i've seen in the yamaha-powered boats.
the dfi 2's aren't bad and there's good info here on them. i had one and it was awesome ... but i'd buy a 4-stroke on a new boat if given the chance.
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | EFI is generally superior for cold weather starting, fuel efficiency, emissions and more, which is why you don't see carbs on automobiles built today.
I can't access that link... |
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| I can't access that link...
weird...here it is again.
http://www.bwbmag.com/output.cfm?id=1892557§ionid=309
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| another thing to note at least in my local area is that the quality of fuels is going downhill fast and carbeurated units especially smaller carbs are being subjected to the crud that's in these fuels and crystallizing inside jets causing nightmares for operation of things like 4-wheelers, snowmobiles, ice augers etc... any new purchases should definitely consider this vs. the efi's that won't be prone to the effects so much.
a friend of mine owns minocqua yamaha and they've noticed a definite change in fuel-related carb issues during the past 6 months.
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Posts: 5874
| lambeau - 12/8/2008 10:53 AM
Honda makes a 4 stroke, but the 40 and 50 are carbed. Old technology.
is that so bad? old, or proven?
http://www.bwbmag.com/output.cfm?id=1892557§ionid=309
What can we say? The BF40 EFI raises the bar on what a smaller outboard ought to be; over 10 mpg means you can do a lot of fishing on a little fuel. We like that.
Is this motor even available yet? It's not listed on Honda's own website. And yes, carbed is Old technology, not nearly as reliable as EFI, and doesn't perform, or start as well as EFI. Proven? Yes, Proven to be a pain in the gas when it's cold out. |
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Posts: 43
Location: Roch NY | sled - 12/8/2008 11:24 AM
my choice would be the 4-stroke for these reasons:
- not enough performance gap to be a problem in-fact more impressed in performance than anything
- quieter ... that's something i notice outright and really like
- no thinking about oil and whether it's full or not and no mess or cleaning the fill areas
- assumption here but fuel economy and eliminating purchasing oil would be noticeable
the 2 stroke definitely have more torque at the same HP level= better holeshot. probably only matters if you're rigging with considerably less than the max HP for the boat though.
the oil fill is a non issue, the Merc DFIs at least sip oil so slowly and have a large enough tank that you only have to fill it like 1x per 30 hours. cant say I've had any issues with spillage either, maybe my hand is just steady
Fuel economy is noticeably better with the DFIs than a comparable 4 stroke.
If you are a not in or near a large metro area, make sure that you consider the availability of *quality* authorized repair facilities. you don't want to be stuck driving for hours to get to one (or worse, only having one nearby that everyone goes to- you don't want to be out of commission for weeks waiting for them to get to your boat for repairs-summers are too short). And having qualified and competent mechanics is a key. the DFIs are not some run of the mill motor, and you don't want an 'I can fix anything' kind of guy working on it. In my expereince, even authorized dealers are not always knowledgeable about the motors they serve which is particularly important on the DFIs. check with other locals on their repair experiences first and factor that into the decision. |
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| If you going with that small of an outboard as others have mentioned def. get an efi, they will start better and carbed motors in that size will cause you more headaches over the long haul than efi's.
We have a 50 hp Merc tiller on our 'cabin boat' and I've been very happy with it...maybe because it's partly Yamaha under the cowling... ; ) at least I think it is...
You really can't go wrong imo with any of the brands in that size, get a 4 stroke efi and do some price shopping and you'll be set..good luck with the purchase.
Also, we found ours at a local dealer used, with very low hours/almost new and got if for about 1/2 of list price, worth checking around to all the dealers within easy driving distance from you for used ones...can save some dough that way |
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| Thanks for the input. now i just need to get my hands out of my pockets and buy something. |
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Posts: 49
Location: St. Croix River, Mille Lacs, | Buy the Merc! You won't be dissappointed great warranty 5years |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Something cool about the Yamaha 4 stroke in the mid power range(50-90) is the integrated VTS(Variable Trolling Speed) feature(other companies probably offer this by now), which allows you to turn the throttle all the way down and tap a button, varying the rpm's up or down in increments of 50 each time to dial in your trolling/harness dragging speed. The fact that my other Yamaha(26 years old) is still running, didn't hurt at decision time either. Also, if you are looking for a tiller, be sure it has a handle you desire. Shop for the features you desire, compare, and then recompare before laying down the duckets. |
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Posts: 5874
| VTS is a couple years behind the Merc Smartcraft. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Wow, cool. I guess I didn't realize the Smartcraft/low end rpm adjustment came standard on all midrange 4 strokes for the past couple years. Learn something every day. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I believe Shep was saying that the Smartcraft system was developed and available earlier in response to your comment that other companies might offer a VTS like system now.
I've used Smartcraft on a couple outboards, nice system. I'm not sure whether a Merc with Smartcraft is more, less, or even with the Yamaha, I don't have pricing from Yammi. |
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| Thanks. I thought I did my homework a couple years ago and was told Yamaha had the only standard vts system in the range I was looking. Then again, i was told so by a Yamaha dealer...hehe. Smartcraft looks to be a nice system for alot of reasons though. Tough to digest it all on the website. Would like to see it in action some time.
One thing I can say is, merc seems to have set the bar with their new tiller handles. I'm quite impressed with the features and adjustability on them. Wish my 2002 90 would have had that handle. Pretty slick. |
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Posts: 814
| Jason, when I bought my Yammy in 06 NOBODY had the vts system setup in a tiller handle, not evenrude,merc,suzi, I bought my boat from a dealer that sold all these outboard manufactures. The Smart system by merc is more along the lines of Yamaha's command link system. Those are both Extra accesories that you can add to your outboard, that require different gauges and sensors. where the vts is built right into the handle and requires nothing extra to operate. Merc just now came out with the big tiller handle in 08 and many of the features on the tiller handle are very similiar to the yammy handle on my 06. |
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Posts: 1536
Location: God's Country......USA..... Western Wisconsin | Well I am biased to mercs but I can tell you that when I sold at Frankie's the Suzukis were hands down the motors with the least problems. Don't know much about the Hondas except we were not allowed to take them in trade because we could not get parts easily. I asked the mechanics several times what they would buy themselves and the answer always came back Suzuki. Big motors 150 hp and up go with the Opti but for that 40 to 60 hp range take the Suzuki. |
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Posts: 31
Location: Fairfield, IA | Bought a 2008 Suzuki DF70 - 4 stroke 70 HP for a 16'6" UltraCraft. Love this motor. Quiet, fuel efficient and moves the boat at mid-30's MPH when planed out.
Went all over the internet searching for everything I could find on the motor - good or bad. Everything came back good.
I am new to this site and and not a techy like others on this site but in researching the motor, it appears Suzuki is on top of the latest auto technology and designs this into the motor.
Good Luck, Dave.
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Location: Des Moines IA | If you are going to troll, go 4 stroke, if all you want is a fast A to B motor go 2 stroke. Most 2 strokes don't like excessive amounts of time at low RPMs. My experience with 4 stroke Suzuki's is good they are quiet, efficent, and troll nicely. With that said my ideal set up would be a big 2 stroke for the main motor and a 4 stroke kicker though. |
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| I recently talked to a service manager at a large dealership that sells all the brands mentioned in this thread....he stated the best motor over the last few years have been the Suzuki's, ie, less are coming back in with problems.. he was a big fan of Suzuki's 4 strokes...just another take on it .... |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | sled - 12/8/2008 12:24 PM
the dfi 2's aren't bad and there's good info here on them. i had one and it was awesome ...
It still is.... |
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2 or 4 stroke?