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Posts: 39
| I saw a recent episode of Bob Mehsikomer's show where he was Musky fishing on Longlegged lake in NW Ontario. He kept bringing fish straight out of the water with a vertical hold. He would bring his hand under the fish after a few seconds but he always started with the fish straight up and down. My impression is that the vertical hold should never be employed given that this position could injure a fish even if it is only done for a short time. Is this correct? Thanks in advance for you input. | |
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Location: Illinois | There isn't another way to lift the fish out of the net safely than to do it like that. As long as it's done quickly, you are doing you're best to keep the fish safe AND measure it and take a photo. If keeping the fish safe from harm outweighs your desire to have a photo and know it's true length, then use a cradle and do full water releases.
Mike Witowski | |
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Location: Hayward, WI | I think I know what you are talking about. Sometimes tv guys seem to "take their time" to hold the fish horizontally. I avoid having the fish vertical as much as possible. True, the fish has to be held vertical somewhat for a short period of time, but I tend to get a hand on the belly of the fish as soon as possible while picking it up out of the net. I also try to start bringing the head of the fish "in" towards the boat as soon as possible also, rather than picking the fish up vertically and then holding it horizontally. You can start moving the fish into a horizontal hold as you pick it farther and farther out of the net. Not sure if any of this description makes any sense?
I'm not sure if doing it the way you are describing would do any damage to the fish or not, but I like to avoid them being vertical as much as possible.
curleytail | |
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Posts: 39
| Curleytail,
I understand what you are describing. I am not an expert but it seems like it would be possible to bring the fish out of the net in such a way that it is never truly vertical. It seems like using the cradle would make it easier to pick up the fish in a horizontal position right away so that the musky is never vertical. | |
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | My advice would be that we spend a lot more time talking about how to release, photograph, and measure fish then we actually do on how to catch them. Just use common sense, do the best you can do to get ger going and more times then not the fish will be fine if you do. | |
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Location: thunder bay | i don't like the craddle as a guide because most the time your the guy holding out the craddle while not so experienced angler's pull a fish with really really big hook's taward's you and if they let go your going to get hurt because most the time those hook's are coming right at you. but if you go quike and saport the fish it should not hurt it it's just when you don't have that hand on the belly
Edited by muskynate 11/17/2008 2:49 PM
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| Musky Brian said it right! CPR is preached by nearly every musky fisherman but practiced correctly by very few including some "tv guys." First of all, there is no reason you cant support the fish's belly all the way out of the net. Assuming you can bend over that far. If you need a picture of another 40" or any size fish for that matter, immediately take one, or two pictures after you take the fish out of the net. THEN, measure the fish on a wet bump board that prevents any of the slime from rubbing off on the carpet. Do not measure the fish on the carpet, or drag across your clothing as is often seen. Once quickly measured, horizontally release the fish back into the water. If you measure your fish in the boat first, that is just one more time that your yanking the fish up by the jaw. Too often a fish is measured first then photographed. Remember, photograph then measure. Some other things to think about:
-consider measuring fish in the water with either a floating ruler or cradle.
-do not put the fish back in the net, check your pics and take it back out for more.
-remember that muskys live in the water and they need to be in water to breath correctly. Never leave a musky's head out of the water any longer than you can hold your breath.
-girthing a fish is just more time out of the water. Only girth a fish if you think its a state or world record, or its your personal best. Does the girth of a 43" really matter?
-if you don't need pics of a fish, just remove the hooks in the net and reverse the net in the water to avoid any contact with the fish at all. (Buy a grab it tool. 90% of the time you can get the hooks out without even netting a fish). It's great for hammer handle pike too.
I could care less about the actual fish, I just want myself and others to enjoy a fish more than once. Mortality is inevitable sometimes even if CPR is practiced perfectly. Bottom line, think more about the well-being of the fish we all enjoy so much, instead of about who we can impress with our catch.
sincerely,
The best musky release guy ever!
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| Guys you can hold your fish Vertical for a quick pic! No damage will be done to the fish ! If your that worried about holding a fish vertical maybe you guys should start fishing out of a Sub-marine this way you guys could take under water pics vertical without the fish ever coming out of the water.Trust me when I tell u if it's a quick pic the fish will be fine! Release em all! Peace! Lelo has spoken.... | |
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Location: Irvine, KY | Lelo,
I support you in "release em all" However; if youre going to say that, and if you live by it on the water, why not expend a little more energy and support the fish with your other hand? Why chance it? Whats the point in being avid about the release if you arent giving the fish the the best chance of growing and being caught again? Sure maybe they all swim away at boatside, but how many of them float up after youve left... "IDK" and i dont know how many of mine do either, but im going to give the fish, and my fellow anglers the best that I can.
Just my two cents. | |
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| From "Handling Techniques and Survival of Released Muskellunge" by Rod Ramsell (MN DNR) written by Jack Burns (from TheNextBite library):
"Very little support is provided by the connective tissue on the underside of the head in the vicinity of the isthmus. As a result, a fish held (or hung) vertically has a tremendous amount of gravitational stress upon its mechanical physiology. This can best be seen by the amount of stretch of a fish’s length when it is held vertically. A 39-inch muskellunge, measured laying flat on a measuring board, will measure between 40 and 40.5 inches when held vertically; a 48 inch muskellunge will measure between 50.5 and 51 inches under the same conditions. This increase in length results from the stretching of connective tissues between some of the more anterior vertebrae and the articulation of some of the weakly "hinged" areas and skeletal structures within the skull. Using gill net mortalities or recently deceased angling release mortalities that I have recovered, I have demonstrated this physiological effect on Esocids to several student interns and new employees that I have been assigned to train over the years. By showing them this physiological effect first hand, I feel it has helped all of them to become better handlers of the fish they will be working with during their professional careers."
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| But smooshing up their guts holding them horizontally with one hand under their belly is ok??
I agree that supporting their entire weight by the jaw probably isn't a good idea especially on bigger fish, but are we really going to start scrutinizing how we lift them out of the net?
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Location: Illinois | It's up to the individual angler how zealous they will be in their CPR tactics. People can have differing views and still care about the health of the fish. No one who takes a picture of a musky (out of the net) is 100% concerned about the health of the fish. If you want to purport yourself as someone who does EVERYTHING possible to not harm the fish after catching it, then I reiterate what I said in my initial post: DO A FULL WATER RELEASE!
Having been fishing for muskies for only a few years, I see myself constantly evolving in my methods of releasing muskies. I've learned a good deal from reading posts similar to this, and I hope my evolution continues. So Believer,
do your best! Asking questions is an important tool, and experience is the other. I feel like I'm doing my best when I grab my muskies from the net vertically, and if two or three seconds go by before my other hand is supporting the belly, I can live with that.
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Location: The desert | guest - 11/17/2008 6:06 PM
Musky Brian said it right! CPR is preached by nearly every musky fisherman but practiced correctly by very few including some "tv guys." First of all, there is no reason you cant support the fish's belly all the way out of the net. Assuming you can bend over that far. If you need a picture of another 40" or any size fish for that matter, immediately take one, or two pictures after you take the fish out of the net. THEN, measure the fish on a wet bump board that prevents any of the slime from rubbing off on the carpet. Do not measure the fish on the carpet, or drag across your clothing as is often seen. Once quickly measured, horizontally release the fish back into the water. If you measure your fish in the boat first, that is just one more time that your yanking the fish up by the jaw. Too often a fish is measured first then photographed. Remember, photograph then measure. Some other things to think about:
-consider measuring fish in the water with either a floating ruler or cradle.
-do not put the fish back in the net, check your pics and take it back out for more.
-remember that muskys live in the water and they need to be in water to breath correctly. Never leave a musky's head out of the water any longer than you can hold your breath.
-girthing a fish is just more time out of the water. Only girth a fish if you think its a state or world record, or its your personal best. Does the girth of a 43" really matter?
-if you don't need pics of a fish, just remove the hooks in the net and reverse the net in the water to avoid any contact with the fish at all. (Buy a grab it tool. 90% of the time you can get the hooks out without even netting a fish). It's great for hammer handle pike too.
I could care less about the actual fish, I just want myself and others to enjoy a fish more than once. Mortality is inevitable sometimes even if CPR is practiced perfectly. Bottom line, think more about the well-being of the fish we all enjoy so much, instead of about who we can impress with our catch.
sincerely,
The best musky release guy ever!
You forgot to mention to light the sensual candles, put a bubble bath of aquarium salts in the livewell and warm the massage oil.
Dont drag the fish across your clothing? So should I strip naked, jump in the lake before I hold my fish?
I think some of you need to get out and actually catch some fish so you can gain experience handling them instead of splitting hairs about how others hold fish.
"-girthing a fish is just more time out of the water. Only girth a fish if you think its a state or world record, or its your personal best. Does the girth of a 43" really matter? "
Does a 43 inch girth really matter??? Heck yes it matters, any fish 30 inches or larger with a 43 inch girth is a new world record.
Buy a grabber? Like a boga grip or maybe a gaff? Best musky release guy ever? Hmm. | |
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Location: Yahara River Chain | "Dont drag the fish across your clothing? So should I strip naked, jump in the lake before I hold my fish?"
Yikes Mike I hate to think of you doing that. Besides, if you jumped in that would be polluting to the highest level.  :)
But I agree with Mike, too many folks splitting hairs over this issue. Get out and fish.
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| Actually its called the Grabb-it Hook Remover, not tool, my mistake. It's not at all like a boga grip or a gaff, but that's ok. Check it out on Pastika's website under "tools." It sells for $19.95 and is much safer for you and the fish. Just thinking of your safety Pointerpride. I didn't see any candles or bubble bath on their website. Try bed bath and beyond. 43" girth? wow.
on my way to lake right now to go gain experience handling fish,
best musky release guy ever. No, Seriously!  | |
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Location: Brookfield, WI | I know when I put myself in a vertical position that my gut begins to hang lower. Could this be schmooshing my internal organs? Seems this condition has become more pronounced as I've progressed through my forties. I try to spend as much time as I can in a horizontal position, or at least nestled in the corner of the couch at a less taxing 45 degrees, but my wife is always telling me to "get up and do something". I think I'll show her Rod Ramsell's comments about the dangers of the vertical hold.
Maybe I'll get a couple naps out of it.
Kevin
The 45 degree hold. | |
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Posts: 221
| How is a fish dying or not "splitting hairs"? It's clearly stated in the Burn's artical that a vertical hold can cause death. SO I think the initial quesion is quite relevent.
.....how long does a fish have to remain vertical for the damage to be signifigant enough to cause death? Anyone have some info on this?
Darcy Cox
Ps- Don't use a cradle to land Muskies. The damage done will far outweigh using a proper pen net. .....but for measuring or weighing though they rock! | |
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Location: Yahara River Chain | No study was ever done to prove that a verticle hold kills fish. If it were true then you would see many floating fish, but you don't. Everybody that picks a fish out of a hoop net at some point is guilty of doing a verticle hold. Get real. If you are really concerned, maybe you'd better remove your hooks - they really do kill fish at times. That has been proven.
Boy, I see Bill Dance on the tube trying to break a bass' lower jaw when he holds them for the camera. Even he doesn't get this much for doing so. | |
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| I did find a study on Bass somewhere on the internet, but didn't bookmark it. Apparently the study did show that there were negative effects to Largemouth Bass weighing a minimum of either 5 or 8lbs, I can't quite remember. Of course "negative effects" doesn't mean that all of the fish died, just that damage was clearly done. Obviously muskies are a different species of fish, but I tend to think that if holding an 8lb. fish vertically was proven to cause some damage, then holding a 20, 30, or 40lb. muskie would then be equally damaging, if not more. I don't catch a lot of fish, but I try to bring them out of the net in a somewhat horizontal fashion if possible.
In an earlier post it is mentioned that nobody who takes a picture of a muskie is concerned 100% about the health of the fish. I mostly agree with that, except that the ONLY WAY possible to be 100% concerned about the health and well-being of the fish....is to simply NOT fish for them.(Delayed Mortality). Good fishing everyone, (except Gerard, ha ha). Just kidding you Nut! | |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Guys-Here's another Next Bite Article, i.e., one written by a well respected researcher/biologist (READ THE ADDENDUM COMMENTS AT THE END.). There's no good reason for a vertical hold on any fish. If you can't pick the fish up safely horizontally, get in the water with the fish (what Larry Ramsell did in one of my most favorite big muskie photo's ever!) Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...................
http://www.thenextbite.com/site/article.cfm?owner=749CF72F-3048-725...
I carry both a net and a cradle just in case- transfer fish in the water from net to cradle once hooks are out/cut- fish are typically calmer in the cradle..... However, like many others I have stopped taking photo's. If you're a shore fisherman, the European plastic release mat is another tool to help protect the fish. There's really no driving need other than EGO to photo any fish out of the water-my PB muskie was caught in 1997. The only future muskies that you will ever see a photo of in my boat is my next PB (+51") or my fishing partners PB or a WR. The WR would be a moot point for me. My PB, I might be shivering afterwards! I think the release photo's are the coolest!
Try picking a 50lb bag of dog food up to chest/picture level-then have a buddy try to make you drop it! Give's you a whole new perspective on what it takes to safely hold onto a really big muskie that doesn't want to be held.
Seriously think about the fact that muskies are not physiologically designed to support their body weight when held vertically out of the water by their head- I like the hangman's noose analogy, as well as the analogy as to how long they should be out of the water. These articles and numerous others weren't written to make the author's rich, i.e., they were written because the author see's a serious problem.
Tom "Wizzie" Wisniewski really drove this time out of the water home ~ 7 years ago when I met him at Smokey's (first Smokey's swap meet). Also met Todd M. at same event and Jason Smith. We were discussing release methods & Wizzie said he asks anyone he see's mishandling muskies:
"How long can you their breath? Now what if I stuff your head under water-how long can you hold your breath? When you take a muskie out of the water, it can't breath. It's the same effect only reversed-muskies breath in water, and we breath in air."
If you really need that photo- take a breath hold it, then take the fish out of the net to take the photo-if you're running of oxygen, so is the fish! I know-not original idea-but a very true analogy.
Trust me. If I suspended you vertically by a grip under your jaw, windpipe, larnyx, etc., how would you feel? How long could I hold you that way before you are in serious trouble? This was something I learned in the early 70's from my Sensai (Shugoro Nagazato) - "When in a dangerous situation take their airway away!".
Don't get me wrong. I have held big fish vertically-just not anymore! I just think we all can learn a lot from each other and the ulimate goal really is to protect a low density apex predator. Who would think something like the great white shark could be endangered? Overfishing, mishandling of caught fish, and pure ignorance are not just limited to shark fisherman. I want our kids, and their kids, and their kids.......... to experience the thrill of muskie fishing.
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 11/18/2008 10:20 PM
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Location: The desert | guest - 11/18/2008 6:38 PM
Actually its called the Grabb-it Hook Remover, not tool, my mistake. It's not at all like a boga grip or a gaff, but that's ok. Check it out on Pastika's website under "tools." It sells for $19.95 and is much safer for you and the fish. Just thinking of your safety Pointerpride. I didn't see any candles or bubble bath on their website. Try bed bath and beyond. 43" girth? wow.
on my way to lake right now to go gain experience handling fish,
best musky release guy ever. No, Seriously! ;)
Not sure what your reference to a 43 inch girth is guest, but you typed it not I. I have also seen somthing called a hook pick, perhaps this is similar to thing grabb-it hook remover.
Fish are going to die. Some how some way. There is no way around that. This is splitting hairs. Grab the fish with your hands, get it out of the net, get a picture and put it back. It really isnt all that complex. | |
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Posts: 221
| Well after seeing multiple fish floating this year, I have to wonder what's doing it. Sorry, it doesn't say specifically that the vertical hold killed the fish he studied, just that the dead fish had signs of being damaged from a vertical hold.
...I'm not gonna take the chance. I'll split hairs if it means one more big fish swims. It's not that hard to keep a fish horizontal.....EXPERIENCE tells me this. I'm sure that it's only the extended long hold that are damaging them, but I still take extra care when lifting a fish from the net. Heck, on bigger fish you can feel that initial rip on your index finger when you first lift em! Just that small rip made me start taking extra care.
PP, you don't know....so why chance it. Two of the dead fish we pulled up on this year had just been, "successfully" released but after the anglers leave the area, who comes bobbing up? MANY anglers have no clue that have just killed a fish. This makes me wonder if it has ever happened to me and therefor I'll do anything and everything to not injure the fish. Why not when it's so easily done.
Darcy Cox | |
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Location: Yahara River Chain | 50inchGrinch - 11/19/2008 7:08 AM
Two of the dead fish we pulled up on this year had just been, "successfully" released but after the anglers leave the area, who comes bobbing up? MANY anglers have no clue that have just killed a fish.
Darcy Cox
And you still don't know if mishandling that killed those fish. You just know they died. For all you know they could have been release without ever being taken out of the water. That is going to happen and its called delayed mortality. I had a buddy that hooked a fish and when it reached the boat it was dead. I'm real sure it wasn't a verticle hold during the whole fight. The thing is we must be doing something right or else there would see many fish floating and we would never see a fish all day as they would all be dead. Can we do better??? You bet!!!! We all can. But to nick pick everybody's way of handling fish is going a bit far. Do your thing and educate others, not single out anyone in particular for questionable handling that mostly everybody does.
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Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
So by your logic Gerard because we don't know exactly what kills fish that we find floating, or how many may die in a season, that we shouldn't talk about safe handling because that's nitpicking?
Out of one side of your mouth you say we can do better, and out of the other side you defend any criticism of "mis-handling" as being over the top.
I have to laugh every time I hear the "there are no studies that prove vertical holds harm fish" rhetoric.
Studies are done to answer questions that researchers have, not to prove the obvious. That study would be a waste of time and money. When the leading biologist in regards to Muskies in MN says it is harmful, than that should be good enough.
Kind of like doing a study to see if hitting yourself in the crotch with a hammer hurts or not.
I think we can figure that one out ourselves.
JS | |
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| I don't know john... got a hammer? | |
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Location: Minnetonka | There's a way to lift a 'sox out of the net while supporting her body as it leaves the water. Give it a shot... 2 hands!
IMO, water release can potentially be harder on a fish than putting them in a net. A landing net is there to protect the fish, not to harm them. A large, treated bag and proper technique will, in most cases, allow their head to stay in the water the entire time with zero pressure being put on their jaw, head, gills etc.
CPR 'em,
Andy | |
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| Hammskie - 11/19/2008 10:35 AM
IMO, water release can potentially be harder on a fish than putting them in a net.
A "water release" in the context of muskie fishing would/should be typically to net the fish, unhook them in the net, dip the net down and allow the fish to swim away. The only exception might be smaller fish that you could subdue next to the boat and pop hooks out quickly. The goal of a water release, at least my interpretation, is to eliminate air exposure. | |
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Location: Yahara River Chain | How is singling out BobM not nick picking??? On every muskie show I've ever seen, PeteM, SteveH, JimS, SteveG, MikeK, Babe, Spence, they all have the fish verticle pulling the fish out of the net. Boy, JS you'll have a lot of educating to teach these morons how to do it right.
You analogy about getting hit in the nads with a hammer, I feel this is overblown. If you want to use that analogy it should be like a tap, if that. Does it stress the fish when you pull it out of the net and it hangs verticle for a split second? Maybe, but then so does hooking and playing the fish. How is hooking and playing the fish ok and now you say pulling it out of the net is killing the fish??? I am not getting the connection.
Maybe you can tell all of us how to get a fish from the hoop net to a horizontal hold without ever going verticle at any time??? | |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Well for one not every post here is singling out anybody. The topic of holding fish vertically applies to all anglers not just one.
The conversation switched from lifting a fish out of the net to if a vertical hold is damaging at all.
That is when the comments started about whether or not a vertical hold really does any damage at all, and why are we worrying about it.
As mentioned above, it's pretty easy to lift a fish with two hands out of the net, and many anglers, including those on TV do just that. Grab a fish by the jaw, and use the other hand to lift on the body. Simple.
The hammer analogy refers to the constant need that some anglers have for a study specifically outlining any danger when it comes to fish handling. You don't need a study to tell you everything, some things should just make sense.
When did I say pulling a fish out of the net vertically IS KILLING FISH??
We are talking about fish handling, and potential damage, not death sentences.
Your conclusions and rebuttals are very confusing.
JS
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Location: Illinois | ESOX Maniac - 11/18/2008 10:06 PM There's really no driving need other than EGO to photo any fish out of the water-my PB muskie was caught in 1997. Al Al, I suspect there is more to work than ego. True, when I take a photo holding a musky, I am documenting a success. True, I get a warm feeling inside when I show some buddies a photo of me holding a big musky. But the true reason I enjoy taking pics of most of the muskies I catch is nostalgia. Every musky photo takes me back to a moment in time and tells a story. I like to recall who I was with and the circumstances in which I caught the fish. You go on to say that you will only take a photo if it's a PB. You ego-maniac!! LOL While I treasure the health of the fish, I also treasure the memory. A picture re-stirs a memory like nothing else and that is the driving force behind the photos I take. esox50 - 11/19/2008 12:12 PM A "water release" in the context of muskie fishing would/should be typically to net the fish, unhook them in the net, dip the net down and allow the fish to swim away. The only exception might be smaller fish that you could subdue next to the boat and pop hooks out quickly. The goal of a water release, at least my interpretation, is to eliminate air exposure. Right on Sean! Mike Witowski
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Location: The desert | ..Your conclusions and rebuttals are very confusing.
With all the new anglers on site it is also crucial to educate, yet not give the impression that 'regular' anglers scrutinize every move of other less experienced anglers. Not one single angler on here did everything right when they caught their first musky by themselves, nor do any of them not encounter problems with a fish inhaling a bait or other circumstances that make a release more challenging. So this viewpoint that is portrayed by some of the regulars that they are the almighty authority on releasing muskies is a joke.
Some of you act like the death of a fish is the end of the musky species as we know it. 50inch, you say you found some dead fish but do you know how they died exactly? What other assortment of factors could have played a role in the death of a fish besides 'mis-handling'? How about capture myopathy? What were the water temps when you found these fish? How deep was the water these fish were pulled out of? How old were these fish? Did they have any other underlying diseases/sicknesses that you the average fisherman could not diagnose? With the huge amount of factors out there that could kill a fish, I really find it extremely hard to fathom why we are making such a gigantic deal about how someone removes a fish from a net. How exactly did that fish get into the net? Perhaps you shoud all employ the 'see and release' method. I know for a fact that it worked great for Sorno and I this summer. As soon as a fish was seen chasing our bait we would work our baits in order to scare off the attacking musky for fear that it would impale itself on the hooks of our baits and then we would have to worry about how to pull it out of the net. Now that I think of it, perhaps scaring the fish killed them, maybe a heart attack?
To the new anglers, go out there and rip those hooks through the fish jaws, net them, pull them out of the net, get a picture and measurement, put the fish back, smile and dont worry about some of the jokers on this site that scrutinize everything. Fishing is fun, not something to become critical on every aspect of.
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| What needs to happen is communication between biologists and fishermen regarding beneficial handling practices. Rod's article in Esox Angler was a great way to reach out to the masses, and in my opinion should have been an article that was reprinted in multiple magazines. Now, a lot of people may consider the discussion of proper handling practices "preaching to the choir." I may be in agreeance to a certain extent; current handling practices used by most muskie anglers likely, in my opinion, severely reduces delayed mortality.
So then if what we are doing is good already, this begs the question WHO DO WE NEED TO TALK TO? My reply would be youth, small general fishing clubs and sport shows, IN ADDITION to muskie-focused clubs and sport shows. Often, however, hearsay is not enough to convince someone to change their behavior. Direct scientific evidence that supports (or refutes) something is often what can persuade an individual to change their behavior. After all, handling practices are a form of behavior related to how you interact with a fish. Some forms of behavior such as in-water measurements, hook cutting, little to no air exposure, etc. are good and minimize stress imposed on the fish. Other types of behavior such as netting a fish and lifting it into the boat, holding it up for 10 photos in four different positions, dropping the fish back into the water without a resuscitation period, etc. may be detrimental to the fish's health and thus should warrant a change in that behavior.
My point is, angler behavior can either be beneficial or detrimental to a fish's health. Obvious, right? OK, but then what do we do to change the detrimental behavior? Massive public outreach and extensive communication efforts? Scientific studies? I think the answer is a combination of the last two things. We love this fish, some more than others. It is both an economically valuable and ecologically important species (and one that is found in relatively low densities). These factors combined warrant necessary concern, and efforts to address those concerns are vital.
Food for thought. | |
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| I have mixed emotions about starting this thread because although I have gathered some useful info in here I am also confused as to the direction the discussion has taken. I prefer the posts in this forum that don't feature people dropping bombs on one another but maybe that is too much to expect (after all its 2009 and this is the web.) My theory is that if your contrubution to the conversation is to say "this discussion isnt even worth having" then maybe you shouldnt have it.
I agree Grinch and John and anyone who thinks this is an important topic worth going into detail about. I will wear the "confused hair-splitter/nit-picker" label with pride ... I may even make some T-shirts...
Believer
PS I have taken fish out of the net with 2 hands | |
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| PP-you're not hearing what I'm saying. When a fish dies we sometimes don't know how it happened. So elimitating factors to reduce it is nessasary. Yes, it's pretty tough to get a huge fish out of the net in a high sided boat without it going vertical for a second.....yes, it probably isn't killing them. The initial post was about an EXTENDED period after removing the fish from the net. ....I've seen Bob do this on his show basically walking around with the fish vertical. IMO, not the best thing.
One of the big reasons I get involved in these disscussions is for the beginner. Would we be in such good shape CPR wise if initial information provided was to take a relaxed attitude toward it?
One of the fish I spoke of was a 51 that was caught by a newbee. He was misiformed about a cradle being good for landing muskies. Needless to say the fish was in the boat for 3+ minutes. She swam away from him, went down, but was discovered later. The newbee's day was ruined. He wasn't excited about catching his second 50 and didn't want to rehash the story at camp. Nothing a few beers couldn't cure, but still, not a good memory.
Killing fish sucks. It puts a damper on the day and takes away from the catch. If you don't care when you see a dead 50....so be it.
Darcy Cox
PS- Stop making the comparion that we should stop catching muskies if we're so concerned about them. IT HOLDS ZERO RELEVANCE!
Edited by 50inchGrinch 11/19/2008 11:32 PM
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Posts: 3907
| "As mentioned above, it's pretty easy to lift a fish with two hands out of the net, and many anglers, including those on TV do just that. Grab a fish by the jaw, and use the other hand to lift on the body. Simple."
And there you have it.
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Location: Twin Cities | Yep it's winter.
RE: Boga Grip's. They work great, except when the fish swim off with them. I have two boga grips that I found this summer, firmly attached to the lower lip of dead floating-belly-up muskies. One was a 43 and the other was 49.5.
C'mon people, don't let scheit like that happen. | |
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Posts: 2754
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | muskellunged - 11/19/2008 12:59 PM
ESOX Maniac - 11/18/2008 10:06 PM There's really no driving need other than EGO to photo any fish out of the water-my PB muskie was caught in 1997. Al Al, I suspect there is more to work than ego. True, when I take a photo holding a musky, I am documenting a success. True, I get a warm feeling inside when I show some buddies a photo of me holding a big musky. But the true reason I enjoy taking pics of most of the muskies I catch is nostalgia. Every musky photo takes me back to a moment in time and tells a story. I like to recall who I was with and the circumstances in which I caught the fish. You go on to say that you will only take a photo if it's a PB. You ego-maniac!! LOL While I treasure the health of the fish, I also treasure the memory. A picture re-stirs a memory like nothing else and that is the driving force behind the photos I take. esox50 - 11/19/2008 12:12 PM A "water release" in the context of muskie fishing would/should be typically to net the fish, unhook them in the net, dip the net down and allow the fish to swim away. The only exception might be smaller fish that you could subdue next to the boat and pop hooks out quickly. The goal of a water release, at least my interpretation, is to eliminate air exposure. Right on Sean! Mike Witowski
Mike- thanks.... I guess ego was a poor choice, i.e, sometime we need something to re-stir the memory banks. You are right, but I did say brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........ meaning my next PB will probably be a water release photo - Larry Ramsell style. Out of the water fish photo's are a personnal choice, i.e., they are not illegal. It's your right to choose.
Have fun!
Al | |
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Location: Illinois | Al, You're more evolved than I! Here's hoping you nab you biggest yet in June rather than November then!! Best of luck! Mike Witowski
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Question on using the "Vertical Hold"