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| Anyone know when the schedule comes out? Any ideas where they will be fishing?
Thanks | |
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| Better Questions:
Does anybody know if someone is going to run the muskie tournament series that they were talking about?
2 tournaments in MN and 2 tournaments in WI plus a Championship?
150% payout?
TIA,
O.T. | |
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| Rumors are about 4 events. Much higher payouts. 2 WI and 2 MN, will be team events. Rumors are it's going to be a top notch circuit and details will be out in a couple weeks. | |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | PMTT
1) Cave Run
2) Fox Chain or Shelbyville
3) Eagle River
4) St. Croix River ?
5) Championship= Greenbay, Fox River.
I think ? Jerome | |
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| I heard pineview in Utah, Greenwood in NJ, Kinkaid in IL, and Rebbecca in MN for the championship.... | |
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| Is the potential new WI/MN circuit completely seperate from the PMTT and the WMT? I have not heard anything about this yet, but it sounds interesting.
Do you think there will be enough interest to support another cirtcuit? Both the PMTT and WMT were down fairly significantly in entrants this year I beleive.
Both circuits are run very well and still paid out a lot in money, even with reduced entries. | |
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| First place in the regional qualifiers is rumored to pay out $30,000.00. If you catch a muskie, you should cash a check in most events. Professionally run, top notch promotion for the fishermen and their sponsors, a no entry fee championship with a $40,000 minimum first place (not a boat, cash)and a check for all Championship qualifiers. Incentives and other prizes.
Can/Am North American Shootout is a possibility, too. Pitting best Canadian Teams against best US Teams.
Sources tell me the details will be out in a few weeks. | |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | there any new word on this new tournament trail?........Pfeiff | |
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| 150% payout in the PMTT???? What are you smoking?? It must be pretty good... What percent have they paid in the past? I am not sure but think its between 50 and 75% of the total entries... What kind of changes warrant 150% payout? I'd like to hear more, but believe the line of 150% payout is total BS.
John | |
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Posts: 85
| The PMTT e-mailed me about a week ago and gave me their schedule as follows. April 4-5 @ Cave Run, May 2-3 in Illinois, June27-28 @ Eagle River Chain, Sept. 12-13 in Minn., October 10-11 Championship. Don't know about any divisions from that. | |
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| Sorry... I reread and would like to hear more about this new trail. Sounds interesting but a little hard to believe.
John | |
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| More info to come, very soon! | |
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| would like to hear more about this new trail. Sounds interesting but a little hard to believe.
obviously it would require some real investment by sponsors in order to create payouts of that level. that's how it gets done in the world of walleye and bass tournaments at least.
to make it worthwhile for the sponsors would mean demonstrating that there's enough of a following by muskie anglers to make it a good advertising investment.
if it happens, i know i'd be very interested in fishing it.
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | If the PMTT championship is OCT. 10 and is on the Fox River Green Bay that is the same weekend as the best of the best that has been there for the last 3 years. Dumb move on the PMTTs part if so. | |
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| It wouldn't be the first time the PMTT has scheduled an event without checking to see if there were any other events there at the time. | |
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| Lets hear more about the tournaments with 150% payout... I am thinking if it is true and in WI and MN, they should have no problem filling up... If it is true... Nothing but a rumor at this point... Also if it is true, it may be very, very tough year for some other trails.
John | |
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Posts: 80
Location: Clintonville, Wi | I wouldn't think the WDNR would give PMTT a permit for GB if the "Best of Best" is scheduled for the same weekend. At least I'd hope not. Boy, 100+ boats fishing a 4 sq. mile area that would suck. Nevermind, thats what it's like now on the weekends. | |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | If this mn and wisc. thing is true I know I'll fish it. Better start looking for a partner now as it will fill fast.
Pfeiff | |
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| Hey Pfeiff-
This tourney sounds too good to be true. Don't hold your breath on this one... The people I have talked to don't know who is behind it and are skeptical as well. | |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | I agree with that. be wonderfull if someone could start a trail with 90% payback and pay down better. I think most of us are happy with 20 grand for first. Its getting a payout down to about 15th thats decent is whats hard. Wish them luck whoever they are.
Pfeiff | |
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Posts: 229
| Any announcements yet... Just as I thought, nothing but rumor... | |
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| It's in process now. MAC (Muskie Angler's Circuit) is looking to be a reality, and will be releasing more information soon. this is a totally new organization made up of manufacturers who will sponsor this circuit.
Stand by for more, and watch for them at the Tri Esox Show. | |
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Posts: 32919
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Guest is right, MuskieFIRST has been contacted by MAC organizers and will be posting a press release from them before the Tri Esox Muskie show. | |
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| sweetness.
i can't wait for details on format, locations, rules, etc.
if everything looks good, i'll be in line at Chicago with a check for the full trail.
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Posts: 1636
| Is this MAC going to travel throughout the Midwest? | |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Old Timer posted in the second post of this thread, it will consist of 2 tournaments in MN and 2 in Wisconsin, plus a championship from what it sounds.
Edited by Merckid 12/4/2008 3:05 PM
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Posts: 1060
Location: Medford, WI | This would be pretty sweet. It would be great if I could fish it right away, but being a poor college guy, I'm not sure if that will be able to happen. More importantly, it opens up the doors for the future. Can't wait to see/hear more.
-Jake Bucki | |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Keep October 3rd open if you live in the Twin Cities Metro. Details to follow soon... | |
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Posts: 3156
| actually if you really wanted to get the info early at least on the Minn events,,,Tournament permits are considered public information you should be able to find out from the dnr tournament office,,this is how I found out about the first mega on vermilion | |
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Posts: 28
Location: crivitz, wi | I did not see any tournament applications on the Wisconsin dnr list
for MAC for 2009, only the WMT and PMTT. | |
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| As was stated before, a press release before the Tri Esox show will include more info very soon. | |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Ok,
Whats the big secrete about ?
If yous guy's already know whats happening why the big hush,hush.???
Come on, spill the beans....... Give it up...... Your killing me here, man.
Besides, other sites are talking...... I'm doing the PMTT again this yr. but I'm also looking for some more to feed my addiction..... Help me , Fast !
Jerome
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| Watch for a press release soon. The circuit will also have a booth at all the Muskie shows.
The organizers say it's forming up very well.
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Posts: 2
| Not sure how many would be interested, but there is also a rumor that 2 or 3 tournaments will be ran in Illinois (Shelbyville, Kinkaid, and one of the other bigger lakes) with about 90% payout in 2010 with the lowest paid spot of $1000. | |
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| So now it is down from 150% to 100%... Just as I thought ALOT of hype and no real substance or truth... By the time of the press release the payout will be 75% or less... Don't shoot the messenger here, this wet dream of a 150% payout tournament is not happening... | |
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Posts: 507
| I don't think I saw any official statement from a new circuit stating 150% paybacks, obviously it was some anonymous person with wishful thinking or a good sense of humor.
On that note, what is the cash payback % of the circuits currently in existence? | |
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| So now it is down from 150% to 100%...
regardless of payout, another well-run non-transport tournament circuit taking place in Minnesota and Wisconsin would be a very welcome addition.
i'd especially like to see improved promotion of the personalities of the various trail anglers, since that's what the big bass and walleye tournaments do very well and it helps their anglers get sponsorships. i suppose it's something that MuskieFirst could be helpful with doing in some ways.
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Posts: 1060
Location: Medford, WI | I completely agree with you Mike in regards to the "i'd especially like to see improved promotion of the personalities of the various trail anglers" comment. I think that would be a really neat thing...getting some info on musky anglers and I really believe it would help them with sponsorship, as you stated.
Along the lines of Payout being a motive for getting into tourneys, obviously everybody loves a big payout and the reality (right now anyways) is that there won't be big payouts unless the entry fee is large. I will admit, being a poor college student and all, that entry fees do have an impact on what tournament/s I have or will fish. I would love to fish the WMT on a consistent basis, but with hardly any money and no sponsorships, that's not really going to happen. The Rhinelander Hodag Tournament is a great example of a relatively affordable tournament with a great/guaranteed payout (for first place at least - also important to make a note that this is possible because of a major sponsor and ?probably several smaller sponsors?).
One last thing I want to touch on is I really wish that the WMT and other WI tournaments would begin to use non-transport judging/measuring. I know you've discussed this before Mike, and hopefully this will become a reality very soon.
Oooh yah, I also forgot to mention that if you're looking for someone to sponsor, I'm more than willing to endorse your product, whatever it is and however I have to endorse it....wait....there might be some limitations on that...
-Jake Bucki | |
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Posts: 5874
| While another circuit may happen or not, I don't expect it will have 100% payout. Not sure if any of the walleye circuits do. The leader would be the FLW, but that is dependant on the boat/motor you own as far as contingencies go. AIM will not have 100%, and the MWC or the MWS doesn't, either. Some Bass circuits may have 100%, but they are soooooo much bigger and established, that wheyther they do or don't doesn't really matter.
"even if it were just enough to cover the costs of putting it on, you could get 100% payout.
Well, not really. The organizer is going to take his income from that. So even with good sponsors like they already have in the PMTT and the WMT. the organizers take their cut first, and then the payou is determined. The results in a pretty good sponsor to even approach 100% payout.
A couple things are going to happen with a new circuit. The new circuit will likely not have full fields. The PMTT and the WMT each will likely see smaller fields. Look, they don't fill all the fields as it is with both of these series. Add another, and there just isn't that many tourney anglers looking for more tourneys to fish. Especially in this economy.
As for promoting the anglers? Bass anglers get promoted pretty heavily, but look how long they've been around. Even at that, I bet most here could not rattle off 15 bass anglers off the top. Same with walleye anglers. And I'm not sure the circuits have done a whole lot to promote their anglers. The PWT(gone) the FLW and the MWC don't really do a whole lot to promote the anglers. With the new AIM circuit coming this year, that could change. It's the only circuit out there organized and owned by the anglers, so I expect to see a concerted effort to promote the anglers.
With the PMTT, the WMT, and the MMTT, angler promotion is nonexistant. And that makes sense. The circuits doen't exist for the anglers. They exist for the orgnaizers. Money is the thing. It's not about the fish, the competion, or the anglers. It's about the money. Take away the income from the organizers, and you don't have the tournaments.
You want to make money on the tournament trail, you've got to promote yourself. Don't look for one big sponsor. Start by looking for a bunch of smaller sponsors, land them, and then work for them. Have nice shirts and rigs. Display the logo's, do seminars, show up at the business with your rig, take them out fishing, keep them updated with results good and bad. And look for sponsors not endemic to the fishing industry. Work hard, and you'd be surprised how much you can end up with in a year. If you win some money on the trail, well then that is a bonus, but don't count on it. I've done the FLW WI League the past two years, and both years, my expenses were paid by sponsor monies. Anything I won was over and above, and I considered it a bonus. But I didn't quit my day job, either.
Edited by Shep 12/12/2008 8:47 AM
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| I wanted to answer MuskieFirst question about "how much the other circuits pay-out" as it pertains to the WMT before someone answers it that does not take every aspect of a tournament circuit for the whole season, but I am too late.
So, I would like to set te record straight about the WMT's pay-outs for the entire season. Last season, 2008, was a very good year for the WMT in regards to paying out for the entire season. Of course by now, folks are aware of Lijewski and Schroeder's accomplishments and the biggest pay-out in muskie fishing history that happened at the WMT's Invitational Championship. For the record, the WMT's 2008 cash-pay back percentage from money collected was 145%. Our pay-back percentage that includes cash and prizes was 183% for the 2008 season.
What most people don't take into account when figuring out the pay-back percentage with a tournament circuit, is that money that is paid during the regular season goes to paying out more money at the Championships. That money has to come from somewhere when you pay out more money than you collect at the season ending championship. Also, the WMT raised our entry fees from $260.00 to $300.00 to buy two Ranger Boats that was awareded at the WMT's Championship for a few years, but due to the response that we recieved from our tournament anglers, who wanted more money available instaed of boats, we spend that $40.00 extra dollars on our bonus programs so that extra $40.00 is paid back 100%, up front, but it worth alot more than what we spend for it. If you ask Lijewski and Schroeder right now, they would say that it is money well spent.
All eight years of the WMT, since 2001, the WMT has paid back at least 90% for the whole sesaon, but nor that we have included the "MUSKIE GRAND SLAM"(TM), "MUSKIE TRIPLE CROWN"(TM), "MUSKIE DOUBLE HEADER"(TM) and other bonus rewards like the $5,000.00 Lapp Trophy award and the like, the WMT is set up to pay back at a percentage of 135% for the season with full feilds and bonuses captured.
But no matter what, the WMT has always paid out at least 90% for the season and we will continue to do so even though when we first started the WMT and said that we would pay-back 90%, the experts said that we couldn't do it. We have been so successful in keeping our promise to pay-back as much as we can, it only took our third season to become the largest muskie tournament circuit every and we have not relinquished our tiltle. As a tournament angler myself, it has always been our philosophy not to make money off the tournament anglers who support us with their time, money, and commitment, but to reward our anglers as much as we can. In fact, we have been so successful in our high pay-outs, we have had other muskie tournaments complain to us, saying that we pay out too much and claim that we are hurting their event.
I was hoping that this tournament could pay out 150% and was very interested in fishing the Wisconsin events if they didn't interfere with my favorite events to compete in. I know how difficult it is to pay-back even 90% over a season for a series, and I couldn't figure out how this new series could pay-back 150% but I was hoping. Also, I was hoping that the entry fee was $450 or less, because at a higher amount, I fear it will be very tough for them to come even close to filling.
Also, I will bet anything that this new circuit will not be the MAC. I will refer you to the WMT's web site in the HORIZON section. I have tried to find out who this organization is, but this is going to have to be, for now, their official notice of a TradeMark infringement!
Thanks
Tom McInnis
WMT - Co-Founder | |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | If this new circut does happen I only hope it's not a "transport" type of venue.or else I may be swayed to fish other events.
Jerome | |
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| I am as anxious as the next to see what is in store, but a few observations.
* Timing for a new circuit right now is tough. With a terrible economy I see less new tournament anglers getting into tourneys this year. That means tourney teams picking and choosing b/t the WMT, PMTT, and the new circuit. I would hate to see one circuit fold b/c of this.
* I beleive the talk of % payout is misguided. What some fail to relize is that muskie circuits do not have corporate sponsorship funding payouts. The sponsorship that supports todays musky circuits helps off-set SOME of the expenses of running the circuit. This is not enough to enable the entries to go straight to the tourney payouts.
* Not enough credit is given to the WMT & PMTT for continueing to provide well run muskie circuits. These circuits are run by people who love the sport and put a tremendous amount of time and effort into turning out a good product. For those of us benefitting from from these circuits, lets not take them for granted.
* For those who believe the payouts aren't worth the investment....The chance to win $8,000-$20,000 for a weekend of fishing (in a field of 60-150 teams) on the investment of $300-$600 is in my mind pretty lucrative.
* To earn sizeable amounts you have to win and that will not change regardless of the % payout. If you don't win you can hardly grumble about the payout. In my mind, anything other than first place is seed money to fund more tourneys and a shot at a win.
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| Lambeau,
Just curious. In this day and time as everyone is talking money and economy, why do you think another circuit and as you stated "regardless of the payout" would be good? Why do you think another circuit with low turnouts and low payouts would be good or even survive?
You also say ""i'd especially like to see improved promotion of the personalities of the various trail anglers, since that's what the big bass and walleye tournaments do very well and it helps their anglers get sponsorships.""
I don't see any circuit, bass, walleye, musky, etc. promoting their anglers. The anglers promote themselves. If they don't promote themselves, they will get nothing. The sponsors of any kind will never come knocking on your door, you have to go to theirs. How are any of the big bass and walleye tournaments promoting the anglers?
While hyping and talking about the anglers in this new circuit on Muskiefirst sure wouldn't hurt, it sure isn't going to bring in the sponsors either. I guess I am asking the general public now that do fish tournaments and are on the boards, has anyone received any sponsorships of any kind because everyone knows about them or are very respected on a website or frequent a message board.
I still think the anglers that promote themselves will be rewarded, no matter how hard a circuit promotes you or how good you do, if you don't go out there and get it, it ain't coming to you. | |
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Posts: 3156
| well if this new tourney is rumored to have two events in Minnesota,,,they havent tried to have a booth at the muskie expo which you think they would do,,,I talk to the owner of the show at least a couple times a week and he has not been contacted and more then half the booths are sold out | |
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Posts: 32919
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Guest,
I cover about 20 pro tournaments a year, and can tell you the Pro
s Sponsors definitely DO respond to coverage on the Internet, and quite well. The event owners do quite a bit of promoting, albeit not enough...yet. AAIM is addressing that in the Walleye world.
In the Bass world, magazine, TV, and Web coverage of the anglers is extensive. Walleye world, you have WalleyeFIRST with our signature coverage, our competition with what they offer, Walleye Insider, FLW's Walleye based tournament magazine,TV and Web, WalleyeFan, and other media. The very concept that 'everyone knows the Pro' is what creates impressions, which is what the Sponsors pay for, so the direct answer to your question is yes. The more press a Pro receives, the more attention given to them in the media, the better the chance at a sponsorship.
Here's a little example, from WalleyeFIRST's World Walleye Rankings. This number represents the clicks on the Pros name and pages within the rankings the last seven days from folks visiting that section of the website:
World Walleye Rankings™
Most Popular Anglers
(based upon clicks over the past 7 days)
Pat Byle 1.11%
Mike Gofron 0.83%
Gary Parsons 0.64%
Chris Gilman 0.63%
Chad Schilling 0.63%
Greg Yarbrough 0.59%
Perry Good 0.58%
Chase Parsons 0.56%
Dan Stier 0.55%
Dave VanOss 0.55%
(16657 Clicks out of 1334115 Total)
16,657 times folks clicked on an angler in the rankings and looked at his/her standings, etc. That's in seven days during the second week in December.
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/rankings.asp
The Walleye circuits make sure we are comfortable, have what we need, and are there covering the events, providing the public and fans with information about the Pros, the events, and more near real time. TV coverage does the same. Magazine comes a bit later. That is how it works. What the Pro does to promote and sell his/her image is just as critical, but is not the only, or even necessarily the primary component depending on the Pro's record.
If the Circuit draws or creates little or no press, media, or coverage, then the anglers are on their own. It's up to the event organizers to draw in the media, and by doing so draw in the fans.
I don't see any 'hype', I see questions from the public and a few answers that the info on this new venture is forthcoming soon. When the event owners are ready to talk publicly, I suspect THEN you will see the promotional activity begin.
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| Lambeau,
Just curious. In this day and time as everyone is talking money and economy, why do you think another circuit and as you stated "regardless of the payout" would be good? Why do you think another circuit with low turnouts and low payouts would be good or even survive?
competition is always good. always. why? because it makes everyone better. something about the American way and all that...
but you're right, it could mean that the same pie of tournament-anglers is sliced thinner, and eventually that might mean that one or more of the trails would have to shut down. so what? i don't think that's bad. if a trail wants to survive, it better make #*^@ sure that it's doing things right to attract enough anglers, fans, and sponsors.
right now, i personally don't like how things are run well enough to plunk my money down with the exception of an occasional MMTT and the judge-boat WMT events early in the season.
imho, a "good" trail would involve:
- the right locations: upper Midwest where most musky anglers are concentrated; a trail consisting of: Cave Run, Fox Chain, Eagle River, and St Croix River? that's supposed to interesting? hardly. put the locations in range of most muskie anglers and put it on waters people want to fish and about which fans would be interested in hearing the results.
- reasonable payouts: i don't want to get rich, but if i catch a fish i'd like a chance to cover expenses and put some extra money in my pocket.
- the right format: for me, that's immediate release only, with either judge boats or digital imagery.
- responsive and available leadership: i want to be able to talk to the tourney director and get responses in a timely when i ask questions.
something that hit those points would make me much more willing to sign up. if that's the case for other people too, it would really mean something and could actually _grow_ interest and participation in tournament muskie fishing.
I don't see any circuit, bass, walleye, musky, etc. promoting their anglers. The anglers promote themselves. If they don't promote themselves, they will get nothing. The sponsors of any kind will never come knocking on your door, you have to go to theirs. How are any of the big bass and walleye tournaments promoting the anglers?
i'm not suggesting anyone is going to get their door knocked down by sponsors. lol...although Lijewski's door probably SHOULD be getting pounded on!
the key item that Steve points out is the ability of the tournament organizers to make their events interesting and available to media outlets. i'm sorry, but publishing after-the-fact results in a newspaper is not exactly compelling "coverage".
you're completely right that anglers who want to go through the bother of working to earn and promote sponsors will need to go and seek them out. some won't, some will, but either way it's not going to be manna from heaven.
the tournament organizer can't do that for them, but it can help: engaging the media in a way that makes them want to cover your event with publicity ahead of time, live updates during, and results afterwards is an important role that tournament organizers can play...and that helps to create a platform that the angler can point to when approaching potential sponsors. keep in mind that sponsors care much less about whether or not a person wins than about whether or not that person has a lot of visibility to promote their product.
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Posts: 7069
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | "I don't see any circuit, bass, walleye, musky, etc. promoting their anglers. The anglers promote themselves. If they don't promote themselves, they will get nothing. The sponsors of any kind will never come knocking on your door, you have to go to theirs. How are any of the big bass and walleye tournaments promoting the anglers?"
You must not have heard of BASSMASTERS? It's a quality run organization whose trail can be seen every Saturday morning on ESPN! They focus very LITTLE on the location of the tournament and almost exclusively on the anglers and what they're doing versus the competition during the event. Only in the Texas/Mexico and California tournies do they focus on fish size, and instead make the broadcast presentation built around what each angler is doing and how they're stacking up in the daily standings. They bring out the personalities of the anglers, play on this, and create a situation where you're rooting for one guy versus the other because you like that guy and pull for him. Essentially, the tournament coverage is like a golf or even NASCAR production: cutting to each individual contender, showing where they are on the "course" or track (lake in this case), what they're doing, and where they are in the standings. Watch sometime, you might even find that you're pulling for VanDamm because he's from Michigan, or rooting against Iaconneli because he's such a spaz....you might be shaking your head as to why Aaron Martens blows so many leads going into the final days or why when Timmy Horton wins he seems to DESTROY the field....but most of the time he doesnt make the final day!
Yes, bass fishing is world's different from muskies, and muskie tournaments can never be run the same way the Bassmasters is run on ESPN. I'm not going to say that muskie tourneys will ever be as big as bass tournies, and I'm not saying that the money will ever be there for things like live TV broadcasts, and obviously no muskie tourney trail in this day and age is going to do a "live weigh in" at the end of the day with actual fish in a bag. HOWEVER to say that the BASS events are popular because of something outside of the promotion anglers is empirically false.
Sad statement on all of this is that I watch maybe 1/2 of the Saturday morning Bassmasters events and productions that I DVR, but being on this website hourly and have (for some strange reason) been a moderator here for 7 YEARS (oy) and I can name more guys on the Bassmasters Elite Series than pro muskie teams. | |
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Posts: 7069
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Troy,
You missed my point. I'm not saying that our space in tournaments will ever RESEMBLE that of the BASS world in terms of size and/or membership. What I am saying is that if one is to say that BASS Pros don't get visibility from the tourneys that they compete in, that one person is dead wrong.
And btw Troy, you won Top Gun a few years ago. I know this because I've seen you in the jacket....but how many others know this?
If we let people know, show them on a consistent basis of what is going on with a tourney circuit, maybe they'll care? Maybe they won't, but I can tell you that if no one knows, or when they do find out it's already old news...then they definitely won't care.
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| We're a subset of an industry that's relatively small to begin with. Even the most famous muskie anglers are only famous to people who are pretty hardcore into fishing.
That does NOT mean that there isn't a substantial amount of money making potential there. The right marketing efforts will attract sponsors. Those sponsors will be people who understand the lengths we as muskie anglers will go to to catch these stupid fish, and the money we will spend doing so. The problem right now with tournaments, sponsorship, and exposure in general right now is that it's all run by muskie fishermen. If you were to get investors, and enough money to put forth a solid and well researched marketing effort, by people who understand marketing, sponsorship, brand awareness, and how to put that all in a pretty package where people would look at it and think "yeah, muskie fishing. I want to try that!" it certainly could be very much bigger than it is today. Will it ever me on par with Bassmaster? Considering that bass are in everyone's backyard across the nation I'd say no. But there's a lot of unrealized potential. | |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Ranger said: * For those who believe the payouts aren't worth the investment....The chance to win $8,000-$20,000 for a weekend of fishing (in a field of 60-150 teams) on the investment of $300-$600 is in my mind pretty lucrative.
Ummmmmmm, sure. The year Troy and I WON the tonka PMTT I figured that I netted around $1000-$1500. We fished 1 event at home so very little in gas used and no lodging. Another event we stayed at Troy's family's place in WI. The 3rd event we got a cabin with 8 other contestants. We didn't fish the first two events. So after all of that we each netted around a grand, AND WE WON!?!?!? I don't know what you think is a lucrative investment, but in the real world tournaments aren't.
The only thing that tournaments are really good for IMOP is fun. You bet it can be fun and a great learning experience. There are very few events where you can fish with people from around the country. It teaches you to fish different or to take your tried and true methods on new water. But a lucrative investment they are not.
Speaking as one that actually goes out to solicit sponsorships for a tournament, it just got 10x tougher in the last 3 months. Our title sponsor from last year doesn't even know if they'll be in business. The companies that gave cash are tight as a drum. It's this tough and we have arguably the largest and longest running muskie tournament in the country where the money goes back to the resource!
I'll be suppressed if this new trail gets off the ground. To my knowledge they don't even have a permit application in with the state of MN.
Edited by Muskie Treats 12/12/2008 11:51 AM
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| Muskie Treats. I agree with you, once you factor in all expenses your winnings don't add up. As has been stated by many already, there just isn't the sponsorship to make a full time circuit work/payout for the anglers in the muskie world. But, depending on what your strategy is, there is money to be had.
The way I look at it is, I have substituted fishing weekends with tournaments. The gas, lodging, food, etc. expenses would be the same regardless. The cost that is 100% incremental is the registration fees. Same goes for a tournament I can reach from home. I would have went fishing anyway, but instead invested in a reg fee, fished for the day and am home at night.
I do not know how PMTT traill teams can afford it due to the miles they have to travel. With the family situation for me and my partner, we choose tournamnets that work for us. Living in WI the WMT offers enough tourneys to pick n choose and the PMTT makes at least one stop every year. | |
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Location: Watertown, MN | Slamr
I missed your point, your are correct in the media coverage, I too watch alot of BASS event on saturday morning. The do highlights on the angler some even very in depth.
I got some nice jackets, $$$, some baits, and some other small stuff. But right after people we asking man who is calling you looking for you to get on their pro-staff. Not single call was made, to most people suprise, not mine. It is a small market sport. But I did become a lot better fisherman in those few years, and the is priceless, and also gained alot new friends. But cost and travel time is what pushes me away from doing the trail.
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Location: Rhinelander. | Media coverage:
I don't see any of the muskie tournaments ever generating any media coverage of any magnitude. No press releases sent to the cities of those anglers that place. Little coverage in sporting papers or magizenes.No effort on tournaments part to arrannge press conferences or tv news coverage. They just are worried about bottom line and not much else. I brought it up to someone at musky hunter about the use of musky hunter to promote the trail teams on the P.M.T.T. and he was very negative about it. When they can't get one of the major sponsors to promote the anglers why should anyone else get involved? I feel the opportunity is there to promote it but it takes a hardworking individual to do it. Musky fishing is growing in popularity greatly. There is a chance to make it a bigger event. I just don't see it heading in that direction with the organizers that are running these events now.
Hopefully someday I will see it but doubtfull. Troy z is right about the expense. Winning a P.M.T.T event one year that I fshed all 4 events and champioship did not net me much cash. I think you can figure every event you fish out of your home state is going to cost you about a grand. If you say less less its because your wife might read this.
Pfeiff
Edited by Don Pfeiffer 12/12/2008 9:36 PM
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| Anglers Insight Marketing is pushing for change big time in the Walleye world and has created a new model for competitive walleye fishing.
Maybe this group will create a new model for competitive muskie fishing, and that's good.
If the payout is going to be significantly higher and deeper, that's good.
If this circuit is about promoting the sport, the fishermen, and the promotional partners in that order, not the organizers interests, that's good.
If the organizers know how to get the fishermen promoted and how to draw fans to the events in person and in other ways, that's good.
If the media is there and Don P's list of things needed is attended to, that's good.
If members of the fishing industry start out supporting this new deal even in a tough economy, that's good.
If one or more of the events can be multi-national, that's good.
If non endemics are interested in the circuit, that's good.
If a team can fish this and expect that if they win, anyone who is interested in Muskie anywhere will know they won and how they won the day they won, and the Team can then capitalize on that in marketing themselves, that's good.
A press release will be out soon, and the schedule will be set, permits applied for, etc. What's the harm in trying to better the sport for everyone investing, especially the competitors and the companies that support them?
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| I think the next attempt at a muskie circuit should be a pro/am format. A big change from the team approach. Otherwise, it's just the same ole, same ole. What really would be different about this new circuit?
Judge boat/transport, CRR. Who cares? If you are serious about tourney fishing circuit, then you realize it's about the money. Not the fish, or the thrill of the competition. It's about the money. Show me an angler that fishes tourneys for any other reason, and I'll show you an angler that never makes money on any circuit. | |
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| You guys missed my point when I said no circuit promotes their anglers, bass, walleye, etc. Yes, BASS MASTERS is all over the TV and FLW, but they are giving them the exposure because of the shows and magazine they are connected with and the owners/orginizers are trying to promote along with their tournaments. If these alnglers weren't in the running, lead or winning there ain't going to be much promotion or exposure. This is all done on TV and major magazines, who has this in the musky world? All the talk or hype on the internet and message boards isn't going to get it done, with out TV, magazines, newspapers, advertising, etc.
Judging by what Don Pfiefer was saying, he wanted musky hunter to just promote all the team trail competing in the PMTT and they were reluctant. Why would Musky Hunter do that. Don P wants it, as I am sure many others do, to maybe help or benefit him/themselves or even the PMTT. How is this a benifit to the magazine, thus their reluctancy. Why would a seperate company that sponsors the trail take on the extra expences and printing costs to help promote everyone. If you can't get the largest musky magazine in the world to promote the anglers, as Don P has stated, on a circuit they sponsor already because they don't even think it makes sense financially (I am guessing here), what magazine is going to promote the anglers on a new circuit, let alone get TV coverage. Internet talk or message board hype is only seen by the ones veiwing that board and then the link to that discussion.
And again as Troyz and Muskie Treats have stated, no one, not one sponsor ever called them about sponsoring them and everyone knew they had won a couple times (I think twice). This makes my point again as you have to go promote yourself.
Slammer if you know this because you ONLY seen it on his jacket as you stated, come on. You actually never heard that, of it or seen anything and then you run into Troyz at a show or on the water and say wow, congrats, what happen, I never heard of this.
I also don't think holding a trail in just one or two states is going to appeal to any major companies for sponsorship. I don't see any of the existing musky circuits raking in the sponsors. Hold a major musky trail :upper Midwest where most musky anglers are concentrated; - - you might fill the events, but what sponsors/major companies want to just sponsor something locally. I think the other existing tournaments show this by the sponsors they have already after years. I think all of the existing circuits have had some full fields over the years and the MMTT had full fields at every event this past year, but none of them have major company sponsors. I think the musky market in general is too small to bring in the large companies. If you don't spread this new circuit out and hit some other waters/states, it will not appeal to major sponsors even if the events fill. And aren't we talking about major sponsors for the anglers and the circuit for financial backing?
- "reasonable payouts: i don't want to get rich, but if i catch a fish i'd like a chance to cover expenses and put some extra money in my pocket".
How can this even be possible and why should it be? Shouldn't you earn the win or the payout. You shouldn't be rewarded for just catching a fish, you should have to beat the field to place in the money. Don't some of the tournaments have like 30 fish caught. Why should all entries and expenses be paid for because someone boated a legal.
- the right format: for me, that's immediate release only, with either judge boats or digital imagery. -- I agree, but I still believe the majority of anglers would rather do transport instead of digital imagery, they want someone else to witness the fish? Maybe?
"the key item that Steve points out is the ability of the tournament organizers to make their events interesting and available to media outlets. i'm sorry, but publishing after-the-fact results in a newspaper is not exactly compelling "coverage". - Then why does the FLW and BASSMASTERS film TV shows? It is after-the fact results/coverage. If you are looking to show sponsors or generate sponsors for the circuit, just having it out there as much as possible is whats important, everyone has already agreed on this. Sure, live or up to date coverage is cool, but how many people are actually on-line looking for this during the summer months when tournament are held. Aren't most out enjoying the outdoors anyway and not in the house checking a website. Don't most (I said most) come back to work on Monday and look for results or how the weekend went fishing wise.. Is there another vehicle to promote tournaments live or up to date then the internet and how many people are on line during the summer looking for up to date results. How does it change the interest if they found out the next day or after the tournament. Yes, it's old news to some but I would think the same people that wanted to know still would.
Way too long, it must be winter.
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| Shep, you are right. PRO/AM. Totally different from any other circuit, you already have a witness, so no transport or judges and he helps with picutres and release. They draw for partners the day before like bass and walleye do. Now that would be exciting!!! PRO/AM. | |
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| the only problem with a pro/am event is that now the pro spends twice has much,,he wont have a partner to travel with and split expenses gas,hotel,etc | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | ' Then why does the FLW and BASSMASTERS film TV shows?'
Because BASS is owned by ESPN.
The In Fisherman Professional Walleye Trail had a stellar TV production, In Fisherman Magazine, and Walleye Insider. Major sponsors pulled out and the PWT is gone. OutdoorsFIRST was chosen as a partner to stream the last few PWT weigh ins live, and In Fish was very happy we did linking the live feeds on the In Fish website.
The FLW is, for all intents and purposes, a Ranger Boats promotional vehicle first and foremost. Good folks, Mark and Sonny are top notch tournament execs/personalities and do a great job. The top execs at FLW are some of the best in the business. Great folks and great events, and they welcome us with open arms allowing and even encouraging live steams and color commentary from in front of the stage. They do TV because that's the model in place right now, and BASS does TV. FLW dropped the TV and the Circuits for Redfish and Kingfish this year, and put a ton of money in collegiate bass.
'Internet talk or message board hype is only seen by the ones veiwing that board and then the link to that discussion. '
You seriously underestimate or do not yet understand the shift from print to web based news. Hype? News is not Hype. Well produced live coverage enters more households than you think. What do you think the circulation of Hunter and Esox Angler are, combined?
'what magazine is going to promote the anglers on a new circuit'.
Is the new circuit looking for print? And if it's done right, what magazine wouldn't?
'And again as Troyz and Muskie Treats have stated, no one, not one sponsor ever called them about sponsoring them and everyone knew they had won a couple times (I think twice)'
Who's everybody? How would potential sponsors 'know' what treats won, unless they read about it on an internet message board a couple days after the event is over in a post placed by the event...not even an official press release? And, since when does it work that way? It never has, unless the Pro is a Superstar and even then he'd better me making the calls or he'll be 'sponsor-less'.
Holding new events in the heart of muskie country isn't a bad idea, I don't think. What advantage for sponsors is there to promote an event in Kentucky, or Detroit, over say...Madison, Milwaukee, Cook, Cass Lake or the Hayward areas? it isn't the location, it's the coverage and impressions created that matters to sponsors.
' Don't most (I said most) come back to work on Monday and look for results or how the weekend went fishing wise.. Is there another vehicle to promote tournaments live or up to date then the internet and how many people are on line during the summer looking for up to date results. How does it change the interest if they found out the next day or after the tournament'
Most big tournaments are not strictly weekend events. FLW Walleye starts mid week, and end with a final field of 10 on a Saturday, coverage runs Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.
What's a 'large' company? How much sponsor money is needed? Guess we'll have to wait and see what this outfit is all about, they might not be looking for 'large' sponsors.
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Location: Rhinelander. | First off let me say I had sponsors and most of my expenses were coverd. I did not need the publicty that musky hunter could have gotten for the thr trail teams. The year I am talking about is the year Jim Saric stood in fronto all and told us about getting sponsors. He came acros to me as he thought this would be easy and that there is money out there you have to after it and be aggressive. Now look at who owns musky hunter and then explain to me why it would not have benifited them to give trail teams more publicity. He is also part of the P.M.T.T. Now the more publicity the anglers get the more the P.M.t>t> gets and the more money and sponsors they can get. That translate inot money in the pockets of them not the anglers. The point I am working on getting across is pretty simple. The tournaments need to help the anglers with publicity as they benifit as much if not more then the angler. I've only fished fished 2 P.M.T.T events in the last 3 years so its not going to benifit me in anyway> I stated what I feel to help those that are still fishing them. You made it sound as if I was out to promote myself and thats not the case at all. Also be nice if you did not hide behind guest. Say who you are and I'd explain more in a pm to you. Better then airing it all out here.
Pfeiff
Edited by Don Pfeiffer 12/13/2008 8:23 PM
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| Pro/Am would NOT be good...not a chance | |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | I think I have to agree. a pro-am event I do not think would work. Would I try it once? Probably if one was locally held. It could be a long weekend with a starnger in the boat when that much money is on the line. Its not just another guide trip.
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Guest - 12/13/2008 8:24 PM
Pro/Am would NOT be good...not a chance
I guess I'd like to hear how it wouldn't work? Works great for bass and walleye tournaments, why couldn't it work for musky?
As for a long weekend in the boat with a stranger, you would draw two different co-anglers, one for day 1 and one for day 2. By having a pro/am style, that would decrease the chances of anyone feeling they can get away with cheating. A lot of guys who fish the PMTT are guides, it would be no different than spending two days in the boat with clients.
Also, a pro/am format would also help in the way of drawing sponsor $$$ which in turn would help out for payouts. Lots of good things from a pro/am style tournament, more good than I think a team deal, imho.
Edited by Merckid 12/13/2008 8:41 PM
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Location: Rhinelander. | How is a pro am event going to help with getting sponsors? Yes they are alot that are guides that fish tournaments. I just feel fishing a musky tournament is a team sport and team startagy. You fish with someone often enough your comfortable with them> You know when to pick each others minds. Your a team. A pro am event would take that away. Also as someone said you'd have no one to shard the expenses with and it would get costly.
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Don Pfeiffer - 12/13/2008 9:37 PM
How is a pro am event going to help with getting sponsors? Yes they are alot that are guides that fish tournaments. I just feel fishing a musky tournament is a team sport and team startagy. You fish with someone often enough your comfortable with them> You know when to pick each others minds. Your a team. A pro am event would take that away. Also as someone said you'd have no one to shard the expenses with and it would get costly.
Pfeiff
A pro/am event would help attract potential sponsors in the fact that you have Co Anglers who after fishing an event use the products they re introduced to by the Pro. From a sponsors perspective, they hope that after the tournament the C o Anglers go out and buy some of that neat stuff their pro had on their boat.
Now team events it's the same two guys fishing, the chances of them going out and buying new equipment isn't as likely. Sponsors would also get word a mouth from Co Anglers fishing the event. A guy fishes an event as a Co, he uses new product, he then goes and tells his buddy and so on. The exposure for the sponsor is much greater than a team already owning what they own.
So a walleye or bass tournament has no strategy? As a pro, it would be your job to teach your Co Angler to work a bait a certain way, learn a new technique, boat control, etc. So what it comes down to is, the better the teacher you are, the better your team can perform.
As for the expenses, with this new circuit looking to keep the tournaments in MN and WI, the expenses would be much less than having to drive to IL, KY or anywhere else other than MN or WI. If one is worried about expenses, look for ways in which you can cut costs. For example, share cabins, food costs, maybe not run your boat at WOT everywhere. Definitely places where if one takes notice, cutting costs can happen, imho. | |
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| Steve,
"FLW dropped the TV and the Circuits for Redfish and Kingfish this year, and put a ton of money in collegiate bass".
"Major sponsors pulled out and the PWT is gone"
That is exactly my point about being too regional and sponsors. The FLW dropped them because they were too regional and there weren't enough people interested, one would think the same of only a two state only circuit and sponsors.
And with everything going on at PWT-Infishermen and the vehicles they have to promote, they loose major sponsors and their done after all them years. One would think then a tourney is going to need major sponsors to survive.
I would think "major" is large corporations, only because they have the money. I guess any of the large boat and motor companies might be considered major in the fishing industry, followed by a few electronic's companies. Larger parent companies like Pure Fishing I don;t even think would count. Outside of that, the others would have to be non -fishing corporations, Pepsi, Sears, GM, General Mills, WalMart, etc.
Again, these are just thoughts on why another circuit that pretty much has the same format as the others during these times is just going to dilute them all. The big one by Simply Fishing didn't work, the Best of the Best started out as a big money, but had to change. Maybe it will be the strong survive and in a few years they ones still around are stronger then ever.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'That is exactly my point about being too regional and sponsors'
That's not why those sponsors pulled out.
On one hand you insist TV and Magazine are critical, on the other you say they are a liability.
Redfish and Kingfish were not dropped because they were too regional.
Who said this new trail is going to have the same format as what's out there?
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Location: Rhinelander. | I just cannot see a pro am thing as a good thing. When I fish musky tournaments I fish with a partner I consider an equal and I am not out there fishing a tournament to be a teacher. I do that as a guide,seminar speaker and in articles. The amount of money generated by 150 pros introducing am. to a product is peanuts. They reac way more with one print ad inany fishing catalog. As far as cutting expenses........those things we allready do.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Oddly enough, the major Pro Walleye Circuits are Pro/Am, as are Bass. | |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | If I recall right, I don't think a pro/am format has ever been tried on any level of musky tournaments, so saying you don't think it would work, doesn't mean it won't. I think if one sits down and weighs the good things of a pro/am format versus a team deal, I think their would be more good than negative out of a pro/am format.
If I recall hearing right, their was a lot of controversy back in the days when walleye events turned to pro/am events. Now look at it, all major bass and walleye events are pro/am format.
The exposure of those co-anglers to product is definitely something worthwhile. It maybe only a 150 co-anglers, but the word a mouth can be much greater. I know first hand that major walleye events wouldn't have some of the sponsors they do if events like the PWT, BASS, and FLW were not pro/am events.
Edited by Merckid 12/14/2008 5:09 PM
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| I don't think you can have a pro/am because there really are not any pros at this point... | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | ben,
That's a comment one hears about the Walleye world as well regarding a large portion of any full field in any FLW Walleye Tour event. AIM might help correct that perception some, and as the FLW progresses Walleye events they may as well.
I'm attending the National Professional Anglers Association (www.npaa.net) meeting this early January, and will be joining and once again pushing for a Muskie division. That almost happened a few years ago.
As to your comment, one thing is certain; if no one creates additional opportunity, there won't be. | |
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| OK Ben, call it a Boater/nonboater format.
All the professional fisihng tournament series are all Pro/AM, Boater/NonBoater formats. Only team formats in the musky world. Nobody has ever tried a musky Boater/nonboater format, so how would one know it wouldn't work? When the PWT first was a rumor, and the Pro/AM concept came to light, it was also said that wouldn't work. Well, it did work, and that format has worked ever since. Sure the PWT is gone, due to a loss of sponsors, not the formt. AIM is coming on this year, with a Pro/AM format. Anyone thinks that there is no strategy, or teamwork in Walleye and Bass tourneys, has either never fished in them, or done well in them. The notion that you must have the same two guys working together in the same boat, tourney after tourney, is hogwash. I've been on both sides in walleye Pro/ams, and I can tell you this. As a Boater, I've fished with some Ams that were better anglers than the Pro's I fished with when I was an Am. My Am's all worked extremely hard with me to get the best fisnish we could.
Look, if you musky tourney guys are like any other tourney anglers, you have confidence, you have a big ego, you have the desire to compete, and you figure you can win just about any given tourney, no matter the format. Just like the walleye Pro's I know, and just like the Bass guys Slamr watches on TV.(Believe or not, that is not a knock on you, Slamr)
All I am saying is that if you start another tourney circuit with the same format, what is going to differntiate it from the other established series? Location isn't going to be the answer, either. It's going to need something.
I think a Pro/AM would work for a couple reasons. And I don't think sponsors are one of them. At least not within the industry, as has been suggested. Opportunity for bigger fields. Say the PMTT avareages 100 boats. That is potentially 200 Pro's to fish a Pro/AM. Now, we know that not all 200 are not going to fish the tourney, but maybe 125 will. As for expenses, there will be an extra entry fee and fuel. You'll still have partners to sahre some expenses with. You can partner up with the ams to share travel expenses. Payouts can be better, too. You're not sharing 50/50 with a boat partner. You can have teams and share info with each other, and maybe share a protion of the winnings, too. There will most likely be a waiting list for the AMs for any given tourney, anxious for the chance to get in the boat with a couple of top musky sticks, to learn, yes. And help them both get as good a finish as they possibly can.
As for attracting sponsors? As I have been saying all along. Don't look to get your sponsors from within the industry. Especially in the musky realm, it's just too small a pie. Too few companies are large enough to come up with the kind of money it takes to be a major sponsor of a tour. Start thinking, and looking outside the box. You want a set fo decent sponsors. Work for them. Work on selling yourself. Show them what you can do for them to make it a good value for them to invest in you. They are not going to come looking for you to hand out money. You are going to have to find them. They are out there.
Edited by Shep 12/15/2008 9:28 AM
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Location: Wausau, Wisconsin | Is anyone else getting dizzy from this????? Man oh man. Is it possible for a new circuit to come and be successful? Yes, I believe so, but without the expense of many other tournaments. The musky tournament angler pool is only so large. I do hope that one of the many circuits can set themselves apart as the premier circuit. I just don't see a musky tournament circuit being a viable "profession" like walleyes and bass anytime soon. I'm not talking about an individual example like Mark and Clay, but one where 15 - 30% of the field have an opportunity to at least go part time at their job for a period of time and be successful. I'm glad to see growth in the sport, but it will certainly take some time. I hope all circuits are successful this year as are its anglers. It's good for the sport and gives us all something to look forward too. I've very much enjoyed competeing over the years. Good days and bad. | |
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| people keep talking about taking muskie fishing to the next level,,,I think it should be noted that 'How many musky shows have we lost" in the last few years,,The stevens point show,,,the Minn/Chi extreme shows,,The Lacrosse show,,and I think the Pittsburgh show,,, just a few years ago we had about five muskyboards that had a decent amount of traffic now were pretty much down to two,,,musky FISHING may be up but intrest in organized muskie events seems to be dwindling.
Edited by happy hooker 12/15/2008 9:59 AM
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Location: FORT ATKINSON | What would or who would decide if you were a pro or not. Some of the best anglers on the PMTT,WMT, and many of the other tournaments are not professional guides, but freinds that love to compete and travel with these tournaments. Alot of the teams that fish these tornaments don't have the sponsors or big boats and like the down to earth format of these tournaments. I would hate to see these tournaments become out of reach of the commom muskie angler that made them possibe in the first place. I think that muskies tournaments are a different breed of tournaments that bass and walleye tournaments. This is just my opinion and I have been knowen to be wrong. | |
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| A lot of pro/am bass tournaments are not actual "team" tournaments. The "pros" are fishing against the "pros" and the "amatures" are fishing against the "amatures." Same with boater/non boater tournaments. You are not really helping eachother (I'm sure some do), but more importantly, you are not netting other peoples fish. I have heard from friends who fish tournaments as "amatures" and there are times where the "pro" will get mad at the other angler for catching more fish than he or she, then leave the spot. Then again I'm sure a pro/am musky tournament would be set up differently where both guys are on the same team, but isnt it hard enough to fill some team tournaments where you get to pick your own partner? I like fishing with new people, but with a good amount of money on the line I want to be fishing with one of my friends that I fish with often and am comfortable to be around. Not to mention I want to be in a hotel room with someone I know rather than alone or with someone I've never met before. Just thought I'd throw that in there...
Edited by Reelwise 12/15/2008 9:12 PM
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| New Circuit: Team Format
Tournaments: 4 planned , plus 1 in progress
More to come
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| I'd be curious how they pick the "Pros" as we have so many of them in our sport.
Mr Musky | |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | For the most part, on any of the Professional Walleye trails, there isn't any picking, you just need two valid sponsors which can speak of ones integrity. But any of the walleye tournaments for the most part anyone can fish.
One circuit on the bass side of things is an exception; the Elite 50 series.The top 50 anglers who have been competing over the last few seasons who were chosen for that back a few years ago when the Elite series started. However, I believe every year the last five or ten spots change. The ones currently in the Elite 50 compete to stay at the level, if they don't have a good year, they are at risk of being bumped from the Elite series, that means they are only open to fish the open BASS events the following year. The top five in the open division then will get a chance to compete in the Elite series. Fishing at the level and being there from year to year is very tough, it's the ultimate place to be for any professional bass fisherman.
As for choosing pros on a musky format, highly doubt there would be enough to choose from that would be willing to fill a 100 boat field, that's why it's open to everyone.
The pro/am format is a unique one, one that I think would be great for a musky circuit, but until someone steps up and chooses to run one that way, it won't happen. The bass and walleye guys have been doing it for years and has worked great for 100's of tournaments now. Until the sport of musky tournament fishing gets to a bass or even walleye level, you probably won't see this pro/am format in musky tournaments. | |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It's going to be a team circuit, from what's been posted, right? | |
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| You get "picked" to be a "Pro" by the following criteria.
1. You have the money to enter as a "Pro"
2. You have the boat and equipment to enter as a "Pro"
3. You have the desire to enter as a "Pro"
That's all it takes on the walleye side of things.
The PMTT stands for "Pro" Musky Tournet Trail. How many true Pro's fish it? Few. The majority are just like you and me. Meaning, we have day jobs, and are recreational anglers that enter a few tournaments each year. It's not the profession that makes one a Pro. | |
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| I for 1 am looking forward to seeing what this new trail has to offer.
It would seem that me and many others are looking forward to the press release and then we will make a decision on what tournaments to fish and what not to fish.
One thing for certian is IF this new trail can do half of what it is beeing hyped up to do it will do major damage to the PMTT. Not that any one of us wants the PMTT to fail but it sure would be some thing if the PMTT reacted to it by trying to improve itself. That would be a long list of things they need to do but it could be done.
I personaly think the timming is good for this new trail. The numbers for the PMTT are way down. But I think that is out of angler fustration not the economy. Other events that I fished last year were not down nearly as much. As an angler that tries his best to promote himself so that he can get some type of sponsorship so he can fish more tournaments. Any help that I can get from the trail that I fish is a good thing.
What makes you a PRO? If you make your sole living in that industry. | |
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Posts: 670
Location: Otsego, MN | I would think a "Pro" would be someone who relies on the fishing industry for a living. Pretty hard to do in the muskie world, but I think there are a few out there that do. I have a neighbor who makes his living off walleye fishing and guideing for the last 5 years, he has been done pretty well for himself. He told me that with the economy the way it is now that it may get pretty tight this coming year. | |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | Guest you are right. If does anything at all help promote the anglers it will be a step up on other tournaments. Yea it will be interesting to see if all the hype is true.
Pfeiff | |
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Posts: 507
| A press release from the new muskie anglers circuit is supposed to be published no later than Monday afternoon. Here's what we know for sure right now:
OutdoorsFIRST video crews will be providing coverage of all the new events, onsite and live several times throughout the day. No Muskie event has ever been presented to the public the way these will be, with video, images, live interviews and more offered on the official website and on MuskieFIRST. The onstage Master Of Ceremonies will run the final hour and a half of each day's activities in an extremely professional manner, offering Muskie entertainment for anyone tuning in on the web. The anglers will be the focus, lazer tight and up close and personal.
Competitive angling is about what each team plans for strategy, and how that strategy is executed throughout the event, plus the overall picture of what's CPR'd, how the fish were caught, and when. Those who wish to will be able to follow the fortunes of their favorite team through each event and actually watch and listen to the 'weigh in' live from many of the planned locations.
This is an 'immediate release' tournament trail, opening up opportunities not available using other formats.
Payouts will be excellent, and contingency dollars will be available from some manufacturers/promotional partners.
We will revive the MuskieFIRST Fantasy Angler as part of our coverage, offering some pretty nice prizes to the winner.
We expect a press release Monday afternoon, so watch for it then! | |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Looking forward to the press release!
Edited by Merckid 12/19/2008 12:05 PM
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Posts: 3156
| Well I tried to ferret out some early info for you guys on MN events because I know everybodys dying to find out,,but the DNR tourney rep said only the ice fishing events are done,,she has over 300 permit applications on her desk to go through but said she would email me after xmas,, by then we'll already know | |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | At what time is this press conference to take place and where? | |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | There won't be a press conference. A press release will be released Monday. | |
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Posts: 202
| Well I have to say that sounds like a breath of fresh air for musky fishing. I can't wait to see what all the new tournament circuit has to offer us both as competitors and as fans. | |
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Tournaments in '09