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Posts: 28
| This winter I plan to start making lures for the first time since I was a kid.
I just found this forum yesterday and have already learned a lot of helpful info.
I'll be experimenting with every aspect (from materials to forms and weights) and I'll need to do some testing at every possible stage. Is it safe to do quick tests in water before the wood is sealed?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Johnny | |
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Posts: 399
Location: Burton, Ohio | Hey Johnny and welcome to the site. I do test the wood lures very quickly at times with no sealer on them. I can cast it about 6 times before the weight of the water starts to effect it.
One note, Make sure the wood body is completely dry before doing any sealing or painting steps. You will get a fizzing effect with epoxy. This happens when I take a torch to the clear coat to remove bubbles. You may be thinking why is he clearing it after testing it. I like to use epoxy as my sealer for my wood. It helps smooth out defects and I like to paint over it.
Good luck
John | |
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Posts: 4266
| Once again you are right on Tigger.
I test mine throughout the process. People that don't make lures laugh when I tell them that the fall rate is changed by the hooks that you use. Especially with a new lure that you are working on, get it wet, make sure it's dry, rinse lather repeat, it's the only way to get it right. What kind of lure are you making? If it's a glider, it will probably get wet several times when you try to get the weighting right. Pretty soon you'll be like the rest of us, throwing lures in open water in December to make sure you got the action right before you put any paint on.
Tigger, you are so good, do you think if I change my name to Pooh that my lures will work better?  Are you putting Envirotex or something like it on the wood to seal it? I know a guy who does that with bass cranks that he makes, but he thins it with denatured alchohol, I think that's what he said. I'll have to try that with some lures that I plan on keeping and see how I like it.
I looked at some exotic wood yesterday, and it made me think of using it without any paint. There was purple, pink,red, black, yellow.....very cool looking stuff. Not cheap, but for one or two lures. what the heck? Anybody ever used any exotics?
Edited by Beaver 10/12/2008 5:57 PM
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Posts: 28
| Tigger - 10/12/2008 5:39 PM
Hey Johnny and welcome to the site. I do test the wood lures very quickly at times with no sealer on them. I can cast it about 6 times before the weight of the water starts to effect it.
One note, Make sure the wood body is completely dry before doing any sealing or painting steps. You will get a fizzing effect with epoxy. This happens when I take a torch to the clear coat to remove bubbles. You may be thinking why is he clearing it after testing it. I like to use epoxy as my sealer for my wood. It helps smooth out defects and I like to paint over it.
Good luck
John
John, thanks for the insight. That will be a big help to know that I can test along the way.
What advantages are there to painting over the clear? I could understand if it were a clear coat over certain colors, then more paint, then more clear. I don't get clear as a base. I'm very curious.
Beautiful work by the way. I've seen a fair amount of it on ebay.
Thanks again,
Johnny | |
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Posts: 28
| Beaver - 10/12/2008 5:54 PM
Once again you are right on Tigger.
I test mine throughout the process. People that don't make lures laugh when I tell them that the fall rate is changed by the hooks that you use. Especially with a new lure that you are working on, get it wet, make sure it's dry, rinse lather repeat, it's the only way to get it right. What kind of lure are you making? If it's a glider, it will probably get wet several times when you try to get the weighting right. Pretty soon you'll be like the rest of us, throwing lures in open water in December to make sure you got the action right before you put any paint on.
Tigger, you are so good, do you think if I change my name to Pooh that my lures will work better? Are you putting Envirotex or something like it on the wood to seal it? I know a guy who does that with bass cranks that he makes, but he thins it with denatured alchohol, I think that's what he said. I'll have to try that with some lures that I plan on keeping and see how I like it.
I looked at some exotic wood yesterday, and it made me think of using it without any paint. There was purple, pink,red, black, yellow.....very cool looking stuff. Not cheap, but for one or two lures. what the heck? Anybody ever used any exotics?
Beaver, thanks for the reply. I'm planning to make a walk the dog type surface lure. I know that there are about 10,000 of them out there already but none of them work exactly how I want them to.
Some of them have come close for specific conditions but they still aren't quite right. One lure I own was almost perfect but the guy who made it isn't making them anymore not to mention that it has come to the end of its life. I used it for most of this season and it now looks like some relic from the 1930's. Most of the paint is gone, hook rash and teeth have chewed up the wood beyond belief, The wood is now rotting and my last fish ripped the rear screw completely out. It's only a matter of time before the other two screws come out as well.
I was hoping to avoid this part of the Muskie fishing addiction but I'm afraid that it's progressed to far already.
Johnny
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | I have been testing lures all week. 30 Pike in about three hours of testing on a Fire perch Little Claw crank version. I think its dialed in ha ha ha . Its a little different for me as the testing on most or my designs has been over for several years. Now I just have to stay within my tolerances as to weight, and clearcoat thickness. I am still testing new versions and new prototypes all year long. This summer I finished the design and testing of the 10 inch Jointed Talonz Slasher. I had a lot of issues with the first prototypes and after much testing and tweaking I have it perfect. I was getting 6 mph last week with real good wander. They are going to be awsome on Lake St. Clair this fall and beyond.
I do not test lures BEFORE FINISHING. Why? Because it will change after finishing it. What I do is make 10 to 20 prototypes of a lure I am trying to build. These days I can get it in 10 baits. I keep a book with the different lip angles and lip templates. This next line may confuse some of you. In Crankbaits the body is not really that important, Meaning with the right lip and angle you can make a 2 by 4 block run great. So I start with a body I can build fairly quick then make it run. I call it dialing it in.
One of the hardest failures I have had to swallow was the first Little Claw but it turned out to be not a failure at all. I was trying to build a crankbait and by accident built a fantastic suspending sub surface twitch lure. I then took the same body ,made the lip bigger and moved it back, changed wood type and wala a very nice Crankbait version that slams Pike and Muskies.
I can not get accurate test results with unfinished lures. I test finished prototypes and make ajustments to the finished lures. This way I take the lure that works best and build 10 more to see if I can improve it. So far this step by step process has produced 12 different models of crankbaits and twitchers that catch Muskies and Pike. Sometimes what I want is not what I need if that makes sense to any of you. It boils down to what Muskies and Pike want and that is where I try to aim. Kingfisher | |
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | For the few gliders I have made I found this works. I make my blanks and lightly seal. Then start drilling and adding weight. Test after each addition of weight with hooks on. I make a few (2 or 3) of slightly different weights and try to guess for the paint and epoxy. I get them close.... When done finishing them I water test them and actually I fine tune using different hook sizes. Most of my gliders would use a wide gap 3/0 or 4/0. What I do is put on different size hooks from front to back and fine tune a tail, horizontal or nose drop depending on what I want. I usually try to get a 3-4 inch drop per second rate too so I can hang the lure out there for a while. Wish I had more time to make these, as this is the more fun than most other things I do for my lure biz… | |
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Posts: 619
Location: Verona, WI | I am pretty close to Tacklebooty on my gliders. I prep my baits and then seal them. Add lead and hooks. Test again while making any weight adjustments like drilling out lead. Fill in the lead holes, sand, and seal again. Test again. If all goes well paint, add clearcoat, and finally test again. Every bait is tested 3 times in the process to make sure it runs right.
Shane | |
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Posts: 4266
| If you are making a walk the dog topwater lure, a lot has to do with the type and density of the wood that you are using too. If you are trying to duplicate a lure that has treated you well, first you'll have to start with the same kind of wood that the first guy used. If the lure has been trashed, don't be afraid to speed up the process and strip it to see exactly how it was made. Since you are doing this for yourself, you don't have the luxury of making prototypes, I assume that you have a limited amount of blanks on hand and want to get one right before you do the rest. Been there, done that. You should be able to tank test and throw your lures to see if you are getting what you want. Once you get it, let it dry and then seal it up good and try it again to make sure that you haven't screwed with the recipe. You'll get eventually, and it'll feel good.
I'm sure that Tigger seals his lures with a clearcoat, and then primes it white or grey just like everyone else. He said that he likes to paint on it. I must admit that painting on a perfectly smooth surface is a good feeling and lends to great paint jobs. Just look at his lures, he must know what he's talking about.
Let us know how it turns out, and show us a picture when you are done with it.
Keep at it, and keep asking questions, that's the best way to get answers, right?
Beaver | |
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Posts: 28
| Beaver - 10/13/2008 4:48 PM
If you are making a walk the dog topwater lure, a lot has to do with the type and density of the wood that you are using too. If you are trying to duplicate a lure that has treated you well, first you'll have to start with the same kind of wood that the first guy used. If the lure has been trashed, don't be afraid to speed up the process and strip it to see exactly how it was made. Since you are doing this for yourself, you don't have the luxury of making prototypes, I assume that you have a limited amount of blanks on hand and want to get one right before you do the rest. Been there, done that. You should be able to tank test and throw your lures to see if you are getting what you want. Once you get it, let it dry and then seal it up good and try it again to make sure that you haven't screwed with the recipe. You'll get eventually, and it'll feel good.
I'm sure that Tigger seals his lures with a clearcoat, and then primes it white or grey just like everyone else. He said that he likes to paint on it. I must admit that painting on a perfectly smooth surface is a good feeling and lends to great paint jobs. Just look at his lures, he must know what he's talking about.
Let us know how it turns out, and show us a picture when you are done with it.
Keep at it, and keep asking questions, that's the best way to get answers, right?
Beaver
Thanks again for the great advice from all of you.
Beaver, although I don't intend to duplicate anything I would like to try working with the same wood. I only wish I knew what it was. I asked the guy who made it but he won't tell me. Any advice on identifying wood?
That's a big part of why there will be so much testing involved for me. All I know is how I want it to move and sound.
I don't have blanks because I haven't made any decisions yet. I may get a lathe or I may have someone else do the shaping for me. I would like to carve them by hand but I can't imagine getting anything consistent in that manner.
You're right on about Tiggers paint, I've never seen anything that compares. I'm an artist and could easily put to much focus in the details and paint. That's why I'm trying not to even consider that aspect until I get through some of the basics.
Thanks again,
Johnny
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | I have refinished several Weagles that had split paint jobs. I found that Maple does not do well with automotive based paint. I used Alcohol based sanding sealer first after I stripped and sanded the lures. Then water based Createx paint. I then found that every coat of envirotec weighed exactly 1/10th of an ounce. This nice as I was able to make a 4.6 ouncer 4.8 Kingfisher | |
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Posts: 371
Location: Dixon, IL | Feedtheworm,
Probably white cedar wood...my friend told me its super for make lures and its expensive! He made lot of lures....crankbait and jerkbait. He caught two big fish so far this year ....49" and 52" on his own lures! | |
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Posts: 28
| ILmuskie - 10/16/2008 7:51 AM
Feedtheworm,
Probably white cedar wood...my friend told me its super for make lures and its expensive! He made lot of lures....crankbait and jerkbait. He caught two big fish so far this year ....49" and 52" on his own lures!
Congratulations to your friend on his fish.
I'm curious to know how you (or he) were able to identify the wood without seeing it, and without even a description.
Johnny
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When to test lures?