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Posts: 639
Location: Bloomington, MN | I found this old photo taken in 1962. The article attached states 53 muskies for 47 people in two days on Lake St. Clair. They trolled 4 rods in 4'-8' with Swim Whizzes. The person up front is the Legend himself, Mr. Homer LeBlanc (with the largest fish that probably doesn't even go 48"). I'm sure there have been numerous times recently that 1 boat with 4 people caught that many in a two day stretch on that body of water. Obviously, Catch & Release does help the average size!
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Posts: 133
Location: Lake Tomahawk, Musky Central, USA | Hey back then according to many old musky fishermen, keeping that many fish out of a body of water with an abundance of muskies did not matter. To this day Lake St. Clair is still a trophy class big fish lake am I wrong? With all the interest in musky fishing these days and the amount of people chasing them, I doubt it would be a good idea to do this..but back then...Makes ya think!
Edited by Andy 8/21/2008 7:09 PM
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Posts: 25
| Cool picture. Really makes you think about what it was like in "the day". Today, we catch muskies and stress out like crazy to make sure they are safely released, wow what a great thing.
Things have changed indeed, for the better!
Edited by T_Musky 8/21/2008 7:31 PM
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Location: Bemidji/Cass Lake | I like the guy in the second row, far left in the glasses. Was there ballroom dancing shortly after?? |
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Location: Duluth, MN | Can you imagine the smell!! |
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| My grandmother fished with Homer quite a bit and they did troll dressed up in cocktail dresses and such. It was a very social event. She also put a sucker out in the morning, drank her coffee and watched. Pretty great woman, and I was lucky enough to met Homer and some of the other folks of that generation and it was very special. Special people, a very special time when the fishing was about the company you fished with....which to me is pretty darn important....Ben |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | nostalgia forgives logic and wisdom ... that to me is an odd reflection. think and romance as you wish to keep the memories feeling good. thankfully there were some who stood up to do some things even back then ... like teddy roosevelt. imagine our current state if there were no conservation-minded people even back then ... and earlier.
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Location: minocqua, wi. | we all have relatives and friends from that generation ... right? ... so, i'll just say my entire family of farmers and fishermen made some bad decisions and had they conserved in some areas there would be some things that remained like pheasants, wetlands and yes in some cases fish.
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Posts: 639
Location: Bloomington, MN | That guy in the "suit" does look like a "Fun One"!! I've caught St. Clair fish many years ago. We got 11 one day. and 7 the next half day. Why do not any of my muskie pics look as though they have no spine? The auditorium shot looks like a U-Boat convention! Does anyone remember the Bomber advertisement in Fishing Facts during the early 70's with a guy holding a reported 40 lber out of Dale Hollow? This Sway Back looked like a watermellon holder! My goal about 5 years ago was to restore my 26' 1959 Chris Craft Sea Skiff (very similar to Homer's 26' Lyman) to do Lake St. Clair/Homer LeBlanc style Muskie Charters out on Lake Waconia, MN without the whacking and stacking...and on top of it...with all 10 fingers. I had the complete collection for Fishing Facts ( I think it was called Fishing News in the begining) from the first issue (guess 1968?) until about 1987 when the Wiley Miller cover paintings stopped. I gave the collection to a friend, that I'm quite sure let them get damp and moldy in his garage, and tossed them. I still miss the world of big billboard foam front/mesh back hats (almost missed the Skipper style hat days...dohhh!), Lund tri-hull guide boats, 25 hp. oil slick leaving Evinrudes, flannel shirts with the sleeves cut off summer wear, and Marathon Slim Jims!
Edited by Clark A 8/22/2008 12:16 AM
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| jonnysled - 8/21/2008 10:10 PM
we all have relatives and friends from that generation ... right? ... so, i'll just say my entire family of farmers and fishermen made some bad decisions and had they conserved in some areas there would be some things that remained like pheasants, wetlands and yes in some cases fish.
I don't disagree with your point, I just think you are way off base in regards to muskie, as they are a renewable resource...not wetlands or habitat for pheasants...Also those numbers were not common, before management and CPR, the fish were harder to catch and apparently harder to let go. If they caught them in the numbers we do today, the showing off or freezers in front of the bait shops would have gone away quicker than they have. However once again, I will mention that muskies are renewable which is why those numbers of fish are actually possible on a regular basis on St. Clair today....Ben
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| Clark, classic photo! I was fishing the PMTT on three lakes chain...geez in 99 believe and was fishing a shoreline and actually saw the 10 foot aluminum boat and 5hp motor that I tooled around with friends with in the 80's as a youngster......crazy what we used to get by with... |
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| However once again, I will mention that muskies are renewable which is why those numbers of fish are actually possible on a regular basis on St. Clair today...
we're fortunate that this is true, to a certain extent, or we'd have lost some fisheries entirely. however, when harvest outpaces growth/renewal, the fisheries are easily devasted. look at northern WI prior to the advent of Muskie Inc and CPR, when people would be excited to see a 40" fish in the Freezers of Death.
for a sport fish like the muskie, the question isn't whether or not the fish are present, but whether or not they are reaching their potential. renewal keeps them present, but only the kind of catch-and-release that exists today allows them to approach their sport trophy potential.
that's a nice photo, but reflects a harvest mentality both in the fact that those are dead fish, and in the fact that they're _small_ compared to what an equal number of fish from St. Clair would look like today. size does matter for sport fish.
saying, "it's a renewable resource" can be dangerous as it can be heard to mean that it's ok to harvest them like this. it's not, they're "re-catchable" not renewable.
as for pictures, one thing i like about the old time pictures is the way people went and changed clothes into their "Sunday best" for a photo. of course, this is only possible with fish that were kept, but there are some great pictures that came from that era.
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Location: minocqua, wi. | the freezers are still on the streets .... the shoresitters will have their campfires this fall ..... the single hooks will still be on the shelves .... the pontoon trolling cruise will still take your money ...
and some farmers will still bale the ditches ...
it's all renewable and degradeable at the same time ... |
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| the freezers are still on the streets .... the shoresitters will have their campfires this fall ..... the single hooks will still be on the shelves .... the pontoon trolling cruise will still take your money ...
and some farmers will still bale the ditches ...
it's all renewable and degradeable at the same time ...
but is it worse or better than it's been?
because although everything you list is true, there's also more eagles, and bears, and wolves, and cranes, and muskies, and clean water, and trees, and...on and on...than ever before.
we're getting there, we're getting there.
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | lambeau - 8/22/2008 8:54 AM
the freezers are still on the streets .... the shoresitters will have their campfires this fall ..... the single hooks will still be on the shelves .... the pontoon trolling cruise will still take your money ...
and some farmers will still bale the ditches ...
it's all renewable and degradeable at the same time ...
but is it worse or better than it's been?
because although everything you list is true, there's also more eagles, and bears, and wolves, and cranes, and muskies, and clean water, and trees, and...on and on...than ever before.
we're getting there, we're getting there.
as you probably know ... it all depends on where you go. go far enough north to take a right on M and you'll find more than you would imagine. by that time most have put things away for the season ... but, it's alive and well ... er, uh dead. |
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| I am surprised nobody has complained about the vertical hold in the second row yet... |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Me too. Revisionist history makes me nuts. It is what it is, and we need to embrace where we have arrived from and resist believing we didn't arrive by the lessons learned, for many in just one generation. Those who have not yet learned those lessons are there to be taught, and those who are ready, willing, and able can certainly extend the necessary effort to join with those who teach.
lambeau, I believe we are WAY 'ahead' of when that image was taken.
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| yesir those were back in the day. i grew up in that era. have we moved ahead you bet. |
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Location: Rhinelander. | benR and steve I agree with both of you. Ben said its about the company you fish thats importantant and its true. Catching fish is about 3rd or 4th on the list. Steve is also right I think we are ahead also.
But that is a cool picture. Ty for posting it.
Pfeiff |
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Posts: 272
| It wasn't that long ago that photos of this variety were fairly commonplace and folks thought nothing of it. It wasn't very long ago that people were really PO-ed that the size limit in WI went from 30 to 32"....now it was going to be harder to have a dinner of "muskie steaks."
We've all seen the pictures. Some very famous folks have posed for pix like this. Frank Suick comes to mind.
Yeah, there are a lot more of us now out there doing the muskie thing, but well over 95% of fish are released.....vs 0% as recently as 20-25 years ago.
Which brings me to my point that I get sick and bloody tired of the cat calls and snarls, bashing and bitchin' that nearly always follows a report or sighting of a kept muskie. Its ONE fish. Let it go folks, ya just gotta let it go and get over it. Look where we came from. Frank with his clothesline full of muskies on Pelican or a bunch of folks in ballroom dancing outfits holding up 4 dozen fish in one portrait.
I'm glad we're a vigilant, passionate and dedicated bunch, and working toward our collective goals is a must, but, we have to remember that the freezers of death and fish hook rack photos are mostly if not pretty much completely a thing of the past.
When I see a pic of someone with a fish or hear of it....my first thought is of congrats, immediately my second is wishing they'd have let it go and my third is reminding myself that ITS JUST ONE FISH. ONE!
-Eric |
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Posts: 117
| Lundbob - 8/21/2008 9:32 PM
Can you imagine the smell!!
The same thought crossed my mind too |
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Posts: 256
Location: MadCity Wisconsin | I'm surprized no one has mentioned this yet. Back then and long before game fish was considered food. Not only did you bring the fish home for a meal you also showed it off as bragging rights. If the photo was taken in the 1960s I would be willing to bet that more than half of those in the photo grew up during the great depression when food was scarce for many folks. If you caught a fish of any kind you didnt release it you took it home for a well deserved meal. That mentality doesnt change very quickly.
Like Steve W. and several others on this board I grew up in the 50s and 60s and catch and release was very, very rare. Our folks had gone through the depression as kids and the thought of me releasing a fish was a waste of a good meal to them, still is to a certain extent.
It's great that muskie fishing has evolved from bragging rights and food to a sport of excitement and conservation. |
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Location: St. Louis, MO., Marco Is., FL, Nestor Falls, ON | I am with Sworall. I HATE revionist history. Everything must be looked at in the context of its time. All things evolve over time. Some in a good way....some bad. Thankfully, muskie fishing has evolved in a good way. It evolved through teaching....not preaching. |
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| You learn from history. Bashing the past serves no useful purpose. Back then conservation was in its infancy. The idea that wetlands, animals, or muskies would run out was new. Very few knew or understood the ramifications of filling in wetlands, killing 48 musky in 2 days, etc.. Now we do.
Enjoy the old pics for what they are, a very cool image from a different era.
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| I'd venture to say that anglers as a collective whole kill more numbers of muskies today than back when this picture was taken. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | This is Just one picture of those days, I,m sure more muskies were killed back then , then they are today.
Ever see some of the leach lake and that area photos ? How about some pic's from the Chip and Northern Wi.
No one ever released their fish . 32" and over were Trophys and worthy of hanging on the wall. It's just the way it was..........
Jerome |
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Location: Detroint Lakes, MN | The evidence that anglers today do not kill more than in the past (whether by intention or delayed mortality) is indisputable.
LOW, Leech, Cass, Lac Suel, Eagle and numerous other lakes that DO NOT get stocked have more pressure than ever before, and the fisheries keep getting better.
That would not be possible if anglers were killing more fish today than yesterday.
JS
Edited by john skarie 8/26/2008 9:26 AM
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | esoxaddict - 8/25/2008 3:07 PM
I'd venture to say that anglers as a collective whole kill more numbers of muskies today than back when this picture was taken.
That's a pretty bold statement....what do you base this belief on? |
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| From a numbers standpoint I think it stands to reason. There are thousands more muskie anglers, with far better equipment, who are much more educated and knowledgable about how to catch muskies than ever before. Add to that the sheer number of fisheries that we have today in places like Kentucky, Illinois, Indiana, Southern Wisconsin...
While a majority of muskies are released, I think delayed mortality is a bigger problem that we realize. More people fishing in more places with better knowledge and equipment = more fish caught = more fish killed.
Yes, overall the fishing is better today, but in my opinion that's a combination of stocking and spreading what are still a relatively few number of anglers over a much greater area.
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Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
That logic doesn't wash.
LOW sees more pressure than ever before, and guys who have been fishing there for decades will all attest to the vast improvement over the catch and kill days.
If we were killing more today than in the past our fisheries would be decimated, not thriving.
Look at Wabigoon, more people fish it than ever before, but it has come back from a crash to be an excellant fishery once again.
How could that be possible if C&R was killing as many as Catch and Kill did?
JS |
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| John, you completely missed what I was trying to say here.
A greater percentage of muskies are released today, nobody can argue with that, and the fishing is better because of it.
But we've expanded the muskies range and brought muskie fishing to so many places, with so many people fishing for them, that even if one in 20 muskies on average fall victim to unsucessful release we're killing more numbers of fish than the era we love to criticize. Harvest is still a very real thing in a lot of places. Those places never had muskies before and are stocked regularly, so you don't see the effect of it, but don't pretend thousands of muskies aren't killed every year.
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Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
I'm not pretending muskies aren't killed either intentionally or by delayed mortality.
I'm not missing your point, I just don't agree with it, and you don't have anyway to prove what you're saying is true.
To the contrary, fisheries that are improving with increasing fishing pressure doesn't lend any crediblity that we are killing more now than in the past.
Especially evident in lakes that are not nor have ever been stocked, but are seeing more anglers, and more angler hours than ever before.
JS |
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| the real, actual numbers are somewhat irrelevant, EA.
even with more pressure and therefore a plausible increase in delayed mortality, it's still obviously a vastly smaller percentage of fish that die at anglers hands now, and that's what matters.
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| lambeau - 8/26/2008 12:51 PM
the real, actual numbers are somewhat irrelevant, EA.
even with more pressure and therefore a plausible increase in delayed mortality, it's still obviously a vastly smaller percentage of fish that die at anglers hands now, and that's what matters.
I don't disagree with that. But I do think we tend to overdramatize the past, and direct a lot of unnecessary anger towards harvest, when in reality we're killing our fair share of muskies simply by catching them. If poor C&R practices are the most significant strain on our fisheries, (emphasis on IF) than that's where we need to focus our attention.
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| EA, I agree with you, commonsense would dictate that more fish are killed now than then. JS would dictate otherwise. Lambeau is more concerned that percentage wise less are killed even if more actually individual muskies are being killed each year because there is less impact and fishing is getting better...Works for me, but with Lameau's thoughts keeping a muskie now has much less of an effect on fishing today than in earlier years...Ben
Edited by BenR 8/26/2008 5:18 PM
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Location: N.FIB | BELEIVE IT OR NOT,WE ARE STILL IN THAT ERA,size limits are the only thing keeping alot of muskies in the lake.Alot of people would be keeping muskies if the size limit wasn`t so big,not the people who fish for them but the other anglers.One reason why size limits should be moved up from 34 to at least 40 in all wisconsin lakes.It`s not as bad as the photo,but a lake thats 34 and some vacationer catches a 38 on a bass lure,kept fish.I saw this happen last week when I was fishing in vilas county,can`t save them all. |
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| keeping a muskie now has much less of an effect on fishing today than in earlier years...
objectively, this is true. if most everyone releases all of their fish and there are more total fish in a lake, one person that keeps one fish has much less impact than it did when most people were keeping fish resulting in fewer available fish.
however, subjectively, i disagree strongly. these conditions exist because of the strength of the CPR ethic. with the exception of a very limited number of overstocked lakes with stunted fish, anything that would erode that ethic and justify keeping fish is a mistake.
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, Musky Central, USA | More big fish were caught back then, don't tell anyone though.
I've only been musky fishing for about 18 of my 23 years on this planet, and it surely hasn't changed that much lol..but hey that's only 18 years. I do recall seeing and catching a lot more fish when I was younger. Don't get me wrong here either and say "oh you do this you do that"...honestly not much has changed except I have better equipment and gas is way more expensive. So I don't know anymore. I just fish, have fun..enjoy it..and I get mine. Some of you guys act like you take this so seriously but I'm sure it's all about much more than muskies.
Edited by Andy 8/26/2008 7:05 PM
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN | The number of muskies that died last year may be more than the number of muskies that died 30 years ago, but that is completely irrelevant in terms of damage.
If 30 years ago 75% of muskies caught were killed, and today 10% are killed than we aren't "killing more muskies now", we're releasing more now.
Think about that for a second.
30 years ago 100,000 muskies caught would lead to 75,000 dead fish.
Today 10,000 would be killed.
You have to compare things on an equal playing field.
JS |
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| If 30 years ago 75% of muskies caught were killed, and today 10% are killed than we aren't "killing more muskies now", we're releasing more now.
that's a great, positive way to express the profound impact of CPR!
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| The impact of keeping one fish is exactly the same now as it was thirty years ago, and that impact is ONE FISH. Like Skarie said discussing the total number of anything is completely irrelevant if you're not talking percentages. Yes today more is being done to counteract the effects of loosing that one fish than thirty years ago, but the arguement being made is the same as saying that it's not as big a deal to shoot somebody in the chest today than thirty years ago because with the improved medical technologies and medical response times there is less chance he'll die. More people are dying everyday now than were thirty years ago, but guess what that's only because there are almost twice as many people on the earth. And actually I'm pretty sure that although the percentage of muskie anglers maybe higher now than before, the percentage of total anglers is on the decline. |
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| At the end of the day all things are a process of evolution. Someone earlier said it right when they mentioned that this generation grew up in the great depression and a meal was a hard thing to come by at times, so a fish was just another meal. My grandfather just passed away this April, and I spent some time going through his photo albums, and I found many pictures from the 60's of Muskies taken in his front yard. One of my favorites is taken on the street somewhere up north for a newspaper article and is below, it was his personal best of 49" caught on Little Bearskin in Sept of 68. Catch and release and conservation are an evolved process, look around at a Bass Pro or Cabelas next time you are in one, there are hundreds of reprinted pictures of guys with a stringer full of Muskies or there is one at the Bass Pro in Bolingbrook here of one guy with 9 wild turkeys all shot on the same day. It was common practice, no one thought twice and the world evolved. Hell, when I was a kid in the early 70's I am not sure I ever rode in a carseat, and for that matter I am not even sure our car had seatbelts. Today, through an evolved society and research I am told I should have my kids in a child seat until they are 8. It's the same thing, with muskie fishing. Research improves and knowledge is gained over time and the worlds changes. Faulting a person or group of people for participating in a common practice 40 or 50 years ago is like blaming George Bush for the current economy....Oh wait that is different. Anyway, you get my point.
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