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Posts: 222
| Hi, I am looking to get a kicker for my 2002 1760 osprey, Any suggestions I only troll for a 2-3 weeks in the fall on the woods. Do I need a H.O. bigfoot if I go with a Mercury 9.9 4-stroke and know I need a long shaft. What is the best way to set it up ont the back also .
Thanks in advance for your help.
Darren |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Are looking to buy new? If so, I'd look to go with the Mercury 9.9 four stroke Pro Kicker. This motor was built for trolling and lower speeds. It also comes standard with power tilt/trim.
Edited by Merckid 6/18/2008 5:02 PM
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Posts: 32944
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Set it up on the driver's side, too. |
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Posts: 38
Location: Port Washington, WI | Hi, I have the same boat in a 2005 version. I have a 8hp Mercury 4 stroke kicker. It's a manual start, manual tilt version. I have a bar that connects the kicker to the main motor so that I can steer from the console if I want. I am pretty happy with the setup. The pro kicker is nice but to me I guess I didn't think it was worth the extra coin at the time I bought it. Oh, mine is set up on the passenger side but if I had it to do over it would go on the driver side like sworrall recommended. I might switch it over one of these days. |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | Almost any 9.9 or so is O.K. For muskie trolling on the LOTWs you won't have to worry about how slow you can go, but rather how fast you can go. I'd get something with electric start as that's a great thing to have. I don't have power tilt, but wish I had it many times. Most two strokes will do the job as well as the newer four strokes and are probably a bit cheaper and most are very reliable. A slightly used 2 stroke can be a great buy and a great kicker, although the need to mix gas can be a bit of a pain. The new four strokes are very nice, but expensive.
As Steve says mount the kicker on the drivers side. Much easier to see and use your electronics on the console.
Doug Johnson |
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Posts: 5874
| I've had both plain nonBigFoot 9.9 Merc 4 strokes and the ProKickers. Manual and electric start. Yes the electric is nice, but I didn't mind the manual. I really like the power tilt on the ProKicker. I did like the regular 4 stroke for trolling muskies, as the ProKicker has gearing and a prop that requires you to run it at higher RPM's while trolling for muskies. I am going to try a different prop this fall on the ProKicker when I get after the trolling bite. For this reason, I liked my plain ole 4 stroke Merc better. I don't think you need a BigFoot. You can add Power Tilt to any Merc 4 stroke. Not really cheap, but you can do it.
If you do go with a motor that does not have power tilt, I suggest you try to find a Bracket Pro to support the motor when running to your spots. Seen quite a few motors with damaged mounts and the little tilt lever isn't tough enough to take the pounding. YNot industries. Not sure if he still makes them, but here is a link.
http://www.ynottech.com/
I agree with adding the steering bar to the main motor, and the other best advice I can give is to get a Troll Master Pro. Absolutely one of the best additions you can make to your boat after the electronics, and Bow Mount!
http://www.ynottech.com/
Edited by Shep 6/19/2008 8:18 AM
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Posts: 222
| Thank you all for your help. New question what is the weight difference between a 15 h.p and a 9.9 and is the 15 to heavy for the back of my boat.
Darren |
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Posts: 1756
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | Many 2 stroke 15's are the same block as the 9.9. My Johnson 15 is the same weight as the 9.9 (78 lbs). I am not familiar with 4 stoke engines but the weight of one would be a deciding factor for me. Dad's Suzi 25 3 cylinder is 212 lbs. The neighbors Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder is 148 lbs. Thats over 60 lbs of extra musky gear in the boat through my eyes. |
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| Most 9.9 and 15's are the same motor, juswt a bigger carb on the 15. So, most weigh the same, if the same make.
You can get the weights at the Manufactures web sites. |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | The weight factor can be important. I ran an Evinrude 15HP kicker on my Alumacraft 185 Competitor from 91 till last year. The first one was a 2 stroke. It had the best acceleration, the best top end and weighed the least. It also fouled the plugs the most and was the loudest. After about a thousand hours on that one I got a 4 stroke. It weighed about 30# more and had the transom sitting lower, had better speed control for salmon trolling and didn't need a special tank of mixed gas. It also had a lower spark plug that was darn near impossible to get at to change. I was considering drilling a hole in the lower pan just to get a wrench on it. It was also about 1 mile per hour slower with a top speed at around 6.4 mph. The 2 stroke would push the big deep V at over 7 mph for trolling. The 4 stroke was also pretty loud at certain rpms when the cover would resonate. After a couple hours at that rpm range you would be shaking your head at people trying to talk to you as there was no way you could understand what they were saying unless they shouted.
Now I've got a 9.9 Merc Pro Kicker. I love the electric start and the self centering strap when it is tilted up but it doesn't get my new Tuffy up to 6 mph which may be a problem when I get to trolling up in Ontario. Jury is still out on this one. No 15 HP was available at the dealer when I got it so that is what I had to settle for. I know Merc is coming out with a 15HP Pro Kicker soon but I don't know what the weight difference will be as I heard it will be a different block. This one is quieter and also a little better at the bottom end for walleye fishing.
It just depends on what you are looking to accomplish with the kicker. For me, mounting it on the drivers side was a huge mistake on the deep V. It never winched on the roller trailer straight as it sat so cockeyed in the water. Driving it on was worse. The nice thing was I could sit on the gunnel and was high enough that my legs were straight out. I moved it to the other side when I put the 4 stroke on and it fixed the loading problems. I could sit on the back cover over the battery and oil tank on a cushion while trolling but I was lower and my legs were angled up. You wouldn't think that was so bad but when you trolled in the rain, now your lap was a low spot and soon the water pooled and started running through the zipper on the rain suit. Not good!
Now with the new boat it is still up in the air which side for me. I started with it bolted on the passenger side but with a higher performance hull it seems to be a liability from what I hear. Something to think about for sure.
For a boat your size, I'd think a 9.9 would be OK, but if you could get a 15 for the same price or close, go for it. The gas consumption isn't that much different I'd wager. I also ran props that had bigger blades and lower pitches so the motor could rev higher and get farther into the HP band on the top end. Most 15's I've seen are rated for 6000 to 6500 rpms so you really need to rev them up to get the performance from them.
Last thing to think about is where the tiller handle is. Can you swing it full range without banging your hand into something? That'll get your attention in a hurry when you are trying to make a sharp full speed corner and suddenly it feels like a baseball bat just hit your fingers.
Just some things to think about. You have to do what works for you. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Almost-B-Good - 6/23/2008 7:08 AM
Last thing to think about is where the tiller handle is. Can you swing it full range without banging your hand into something? That'll get your attention in a hurry when you are trying to make a sharp full speed corner and suddenly it feels like a baseball bat just hit your fingers.
I don't understand how your banging your hand so much. If you put your kicker on the starboard side(right side of the boat) the kicker handle is then located on the right side of the motor. Honestly, if you have to turn the kicker motor that hard your banging your hand on the main motor then, that would be your own fault, which probably means your too close to the structure your fishing or something that causes you to have to turn so hard. I've successfully trolled with a kicker on the starboard side without banging my hand once that I can recall and I know numerous others who also have there kicker on the starboard side without any problems.
If banging your hand is that much of continuing problem, you really should look into the kicker handle extension. |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | I guess it just depends on how you troll. I get after it pretty good running the boat over the top of shallow rocks and weeds on steep breaks and then gunnng wide open turns when the long lined lures running deep are starting to contact the structure on inside turns. If you just troll casually on the outskirts of the complex structure, then no, there is no need for violent manuevers. Just depends on how well you know the passes and how much effort you are willing to invest in boat control. Depends on the lake too. Some lakes have mostly easy to troll spots others don't.
I already caught my hand once with the Tuffy between the gunnel and the tiller handle when walleye fishing in muddy river water when suddenly there was a stump that steered the motor for me. I had the motor trimmed up high to avoid the stumps as much as possible but not that one. The correct words to say when that happens escape me right now but a simple ouch didn't suffice. I think it was something with multiple syllables. |
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Posts: 10
| Is the steering the major difference between mounting the motor on the driver/passenger side? Something was said about seeing electronics also. I am fairly new to trolling/ owning my own boat. Was also wondering how big of a pain it would be to put the kicker on the right/driver side of the boat, or if it would be worth doing just to try it. Mine is on the left side right now and I havent noticed any problems, I could see where the handle would make contact with the boat. Also was wondering about getting my cover custom stitched to fit around the kicker as it was made to fit the boat without the kicker on. Thanks |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | There is no difference as far as average turning radius of the boat. If you leave the big motor down ( which I don't for muskies) and then tie them together, steering from the wheel, you can increase your steering ability. If they aren't tied together, the boat steers quicker to the side the kicker is on. By that I mean it will turn sharper. I think the kicker location is all about weight distribution for loading vs. performance vs. comfort while using it.
Seeing the electronics is an issue. In my old boat with a big back area and the new boat with a smaller rear area, I had the main locator on the console. It was like a candle to a moth. Anyone in the boat was soon standing between it and me. You could say move please and soon they would be back there again. I know. When someone else was doing the steering and I was standing I was in the sight line too. You just chalk it up as inevitable. But, on the new boat I have an extra locator mounting ball for the Ram mount and Lowrance net connections in the back corner with the kicker so I can move the front locator back there and network it to the console unit. No more people in the way. Neat!
Why not move the kicker and see how it works? You can always move it back again. That way you'll know for sure what effect the location has for you on loading, running and ability to fish.
I had the tarp for my old boat made before the kicker was added. I took the tarp back to the place where it was made and they had no problem adding on a hood for the kicker motor. I even took it back when I added more rod holders and other goodies and they stitched leather pads over the sharp accessories to protect the tarp.
Edited by Almost-B-Good 6/24/2008 7:14 AM
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Posts: 5874
| I'm a backtroller from the past, and I like to steer and control the kicker with my left arm, sitting facing forward. Until I bought my Lund in 02, I had tillers, and this is what I got used to for twenty -five plus years. My sonar was in back by me on those boats. My only other wheel boat was an 83 Lund Mr Pike, and that had a Lowrance flasher on the console, and was easy to see in back. They didn't have kickers back then, so a transom mount TM is what we used to back troll. Mounted on the port side, it allowed me to control it with my left hand.
On my 02 Lund, I mounted the kicker on the port side, and found that to be ideal for me. If I had to turn hard to starboard, and I didn't lift the handle to clear the gunnel, I would rap my knuckels between the gunnel and the handle. I learned to raise the handle as I turned. Never hit a stump and hand the feedback turn the tiller for me. Lucky I guess. I also did most of my forward trolling with a tie bar to the main motor, and a trollmaster. I did not see a need for the tiller handle extension on that boat.
My new Tuffy 1890 has the kicker mounted on the starboard side. Was told I needed it there due to the pad, and the torque of the big motor. It would lean too much if mounted on the port side. It's taken some getting used to controlling with the right arm, but I think after two years, I am getting it down. The tiller handle no needs to be rised higher to avoid contact with the main motor. I still prefer to use the tie bar when forward trolling. If I do find myself on the tiller handle of my ProKicker, I can easily see my X-11 on the console. I also keep an extension handle on the boat for those time that I need or want to troll using it.
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| Almost-B-Good - 6/24/2008 7:11 AM
Seeing the electronics is an issue. In my old boat with a big back area and the new boat with a smaller rear area, I had the main locator on the console. It was like a candle to a moth. Anyone in the boat was soon standing between it and me. You could say move please and soon they would be back there again. I know. When someone else was doing the steering and I was standing I was in the sight line too. You just chalk it up as inevitable. But, on the new boat I have an extra locator mounting ball for the Ram mount and Lowrance net connections in the back corner with the kicker so I can move the front locator back there and network it to the console unit. No more people in the way. Neat!
I had the tarp for my old boat made before the kicker was added. I took the tarp back to the place where it was made and they had no problem adding on a hood for the kicker motor. I even took it back when I added more rod holders and other goodies and they stitched leather pads over the sharp accessories to protect the tarp.
Sounds like that old boat was something else. It also sounds like that old boat was perfect! It's pretty hard to compare a aluminum Crestliner to a high performance hull like your 190 and have similar results. A fiberglass hull is so much different. It sounds to me you just need to spend some more time on the water with it and you'll get use to it.
Have you changed your kicker to the starboard side yet? |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | The old boat was a great compromise trailerable rig for trolling/casting salmon, walleyes, and musky in bigger water, or at least as good as I could afford back in 1991. When I got away from fishing the big lake for salmon there was no need for a "dancehall" in the back for working downriggers and netting fish. A big front deck and lower profile were premium items so hence the new rig. No I haven't changed the kicker to starboard, yet. I'm fighting that idea tooth and nail and will try everything I can to avoid it unless it is inevitable. Got the big motor dropped down a notch and still need to get out and run it like that first to see the effect. Unfortunately, that'll take some time.
I prefer the kicker port side if possible but if it has to change, so be it. I might have learned my lesson though, from now on I have the tiller folded up half way when the motor is trimmed up. One knuckle-mash against the glass was enough I hope. Some one once said the older you get the slower you learn, so it might take a refresher.
I like running the motor with my left hand and holding the rod in my right hand. Don't know why, it's just what I like. I suppose I could learn to do it the other way but then the locator in the back corner would be useless. I think the trolling motor extension handle idea is a winner. I'll be getting one of those for sure. If I can sit more in the middle of the boat then I can run my rod more dead center and the other guys can have a better spread to the sides. |
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Kicker Motor