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| So I pulled in to fish a spot I had raised a nice fish a couple times last evening on Waubesa...I saw a small aluminum boat with 3 younger guys in it and a dog...I had seen them out before and they were obviously new to the sport of musky fishing, had a small net and using fairly light tackle.
So I pull in and notice they are messing around with something in the boat, one guy is on his cell telling the tale of what had happened...so after a bit they lift up a nice fish, 44-45 it looked like, and start posing for all kinds of shots, then measure it, then more shots, then some more ewwing and ahhing at the fish...I had glanced at my gps when I pulled in, and later it was well over 2 minutes they still hadn't put it back in the water..so I'm getting a bit hot under the collar they had this fish out of the water for WAY too long in anyones book...do you go over aftertwards and politely tell them the proper way to do things?
I just bit my tongue and plan to approach them next time I see them on the water (when I'm not so hot under the collar) and congratulate them and then go over proper release methods...
maybe one of them will see this... |
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Posts: 284
| BN,
I think your plan is a very good way to handle this situation. I'm sure they would be accepting of someone teaching them on the proper way to catch and release muskies.
Jimmy |
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Posts: 2378
| probably would have done the same thing. Gotten angry and thought better of confronting them in that mindset |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | If compelled to confront them, I would start off by saying "wow, nice fish" etc. Act curious and impressed...then try to hide your anger and mention how they're actually quite fragile fish, they don't breathe air, and begin the conservation C&R presentation.
If they act unconcerned, confiscate all their fishing gear, and their dog. |
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Posts: 1316
Location: Madison, WI | If I had a boat and saw that, I would defiantly say something. It's not my place in someone elses boat. I wish someone would have taught me about properly handling when I started to muskie fish. I feel sorry for the first couple fish that I caught and handled. If you don't order them around, and be sincere in what you're saying, your words will have a better chance of being taken serious. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Yah, I think I did the right thing as I was probably a bit too hot to come across the right way last nite..I'm sure I'll see them again as they have been out on Wingra and Wauby quite a bit...next time I see them I will go talk to them and hopefully they are open to listening/learning |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Always a good idea to give yourself time to settle down; once in awhile Slamr and lambeau have to remind me of that... |
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| Yah, I think I did the right thing as I was probably a bit too hot to come across the right way last nite..I'm sure I'll see them again as they have been out on Wingra and Wauby quite a bit...next time I see them I will go talk to them and hopefully they are open to listening/learning
i think it was a good decision all the way to back off in the moment if you're hot about it and you know that you'll have the chance to see them and talk to them about it again in the future when you're in a better space. (if you weren't likely to see them again it's worth capturing the "teachable moment".)
depending on how generous you're feeling, you might even invite them to come out and fish with you in your boat sometime. they'd probably appreciate the opportunity to get out in a nice boat with someone who knows what they're doing, and that positive feeling can help them be more open to listening to your advice. and it would give you the chance to not only talk about release techniques, but to demonstrate them and show the advantages of some of the release tools (long nose pliers, hook cutters, fish friendly net, etc.). i did this one time with a new muskie fisherman near my house and it worked out well.
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Posts: 5874
| Brad, if you were that angry, then you did the right thing by backing off. I question why a person would get so angry over this. Yes, it's one thing to witness fish being mishandled, but to actually get so angry that you couldn't address them in a civil manner at that moment? Feel sorry for a fish that is mishandled? I'm sure that made the fish feel much better. C'mon. It's a fish.
I've seen this firsthand. A fish gets mishandled by a novice, and some bonehead feels it is his duty to go over and yell and scream at them. They don't have a clue why this guy is so angry, and they become totally turned off to anyone who would try to enlighten them on the proper way to handle these fish. They think we're all nuts. I know one guy that happened to, and he will purposely hold a fish out of the water just to get a rise out of somebody. Is that right? no. Can you blame him for his attitude? I don't. I blame the big mouth idiot who yelled at him in the first place.
I like Lambeau's idea, too. Invite these kids along, and teach them in your environment. I can guarantee they will soak up the info you offer much more readily, than if you go at them with anger in your voice.
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Posts: 720
| Brad,
Smart idea to wait nobody wins in a arguement about a fish. Now, I would invite them out in my boat a go through the equipment I've got and show them how to use it. But civility not anger and conferentation gets things changed.
Dave |
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Posts: 574
| I was there as well BN, LAME is all I can say! Kids are cheering and claping as a fish floats next to there boat. I was too far to see how big it was, but not too far to hear it floping in the bottom of the boat, or to clearly see it floating next to there boat when they were done with it.
WAY!!!!!! longer thatn 2 minutes out of the water......Just when we thought it was over wee see the camera flash many more times.
I was about to leave when they did, but angry words were brewing upstairs.
Were they musky fishing? They were in the cleaning room when I left still about 20 minutes after them.
I guess I dont want to know what they were doing in there. |
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Posts: 468
Location: Not where I wanna be! | i think you handled it right. ya it sucks to know that fish would have a hard time surviving that, however, i think they are tougher than some give them credit for. it is very possible that fish was released no worse for the wear, but who knows for sure. i think you would do a great bit of good by stopping by the next time you see them, and nicely explain and maybe demonstrate proper releaes techniques!
kuddos to you for maintaining your composure....! |
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| You got to let then know asap and dont' worry about being "PC"
Let them know the right way, RIGHT AWAY.
You can't worry about hurting the feelings of a grown man. |
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Posts: 574
| Its not a matter of hurting feelings guest. Its a matter of not coming across like a @#%. If someone is rude to me while trying to tell me something, its not very likely I will listen. |
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| by telling him right then and there to put the fish back in the water that isn't rude, it's simply letting him know right away what he needs to do.
I didn't say start yelling and cussing at him. I said, you need to let them know RIGHT AWAY so they know the right way. The more you ignore it, the more the issue will continue.
You don't have to be rude, but you can certainly speak up right away. |
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Posts: 468
Location: Not where I wanna be! | I think the point Bomber is making is being selective on WHEN and HOW will prlly make more of an impact, rather than being a jerk.
Be Nice, teach and they will learn,
Get in their face, use all kinds of emotions and they will most likely disregard everything you say! |
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Posts: 82
| While I definately don't agree with how they handled their fish, in the end, by law, it was THEIR fish. I fully embrace the immediate catch and release philosophy of Musky fishing, but none of us has any right to be mad at someone for keeping and eating a Musky. It's not smart, but it is allowed by law to do so. All we can do is educate the ignorant and be on our way. There is definately no right to get mad. |
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Posts: 550
Location: So. Illinois | Motor over to the anglers, congratualte them on their catch. Ask if they are aware of the fragility of the fish and suggest that they put the fish is the water to give it some air -- no harm, no foul. Its all dependent on the approach you take. Offer to help if needed (i.e. let them use your oversized muskie net).
J |
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Posts: 1316
Location: Madison, WI | I'm not one for waiting, if you explain to them how special a mid-forty inch is, (obviously they knew that if they were cheering) and be calm about explaining to them about a proper release. Most people will listen and learn. They want to catch more fish and this will help them. That way they can start using their found knowledge the next they are out and don't have to let it ruin your day. You've done all you do, that way next time your on the water, your not looking for their boat, you can just fish. |
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| Immediately congratulate them on a nice catch, ask them if they need any help releasing the fish, and tell them next time be sure to get some quick pictures because muskies need to be returned to the water very quickly in order to survive unharmed. Chances are they didn't know any better, and this happens all the time with inexperienced anglers. |
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| I guess this would be the wrong time to let you guys know about the 50"er taken out of Lake Tomahawk, walleye fishing...and the 51" that might as well have been connected to a winch in the backseat of a car down at the dam. Only 2 50's I've heard of so far up here but I'm sure a few more were caught. It's a good idea to let people know about handling fish properly..usually by starting with something like "hey guys if you want to catch that fish when it's a true giant someday..."..or something along those lines..who knows. Don't forget that just because they might not be one of the online-fisherman as I'd like to call em that they aren't entitled to their own options or anything. It's a shame they handled the fish poorly, however sometimes you just need to understand that these people aren't you. |
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Posts: 785
| This happened to me last season, only nice thing is they were walleye guys and as soon as they cramed the fish in there itty bitty little net, they started the motor and came towards me for help. I was already on my way over there as I seen the fish jump. I acted happy and wanting to help but "VOLUNTEERED" my beckman so the fish could breathe while we worked... I still think that is a good idea, if there willing, get the fish in the water (net) as soon as possible.
I then showed the guy how to hold it properly and offered pictures (they had no camera), he wanted to keep it but thank the good Lord in heaven the fish was 38"es and the lake limit was 40"es. So he then released it by flinging it into the lake. I tryed to grab it to revive (as it sank) but I couldn't get a handle on it. They probably thought I was crazy becouse I got wet up to my shoulder. I then thanked them up and down that even though it wasn't legal us musky guys really appreciate muskies being released. (did the fish live... who knows)
As sweet justice I bumped into those guys when I came back to the ramp that evening... I got to tell them of the 42"er I got to release after I helped them.  |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Shep, you question why I would get angry a 45" class fish is handled this way? you would just laugh it off? Sorry, I guess I'm passionate about the sport and the fish ...yes, it is just a fish and I don't get too riled up when someone legally keeps one, but this fish was handled so poorly it did get me a bit hot.
These kids are fishing for muskies, i've seen them before. yes, they don't probably know a whole lot better as I remember the days when I started and handled some poorly too..but that doesn't excuse them from how they handled this fish...I know it was way longer than 2 minutes...I would honestly guess it was 4 or 5 minutes before it got back in the water..who knows if it will live...
I will talk to them at a later date and hopefully it goes well...and yah, maybe even take one or 2 out chasing them...
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Posts: 2024
| I think you handled the situation well, Brad. Does no good to start barking orders at them, as even toned as it may seem to YOU it would probably come off to THEM as you being pompous. Then you've wasted your energy and ended up back at square one.
I REALLY like the idea of inviting these guys to come fish with you. BOTH of you gain from the experience. You gain by feeling a sense of accomplishment for teaching proper C&R technique and they gain by learning that technique and getting a free "clinic" on Mad Chain 'ski fishing. The door swings both ways. I'd say that's a good approach if you feel strongly about changing their handling and release methodology. |
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Location: oswego, il | Handling it improperly can lead to trouble. I seen a guy harvest a 37 a couple years ago in indiana. Well he didn't exactly harvest the fish, he threw the net with the fish on the bank and some people came out of the house and took the fish, then he left. I found a small floater he caught and I am sure he kept the other small fish i seen him catch that day. I know that fish was a 37 because I ran into his brother in law at the boat ramp. That conversation did not go well. I never seen this guy fish with anybody. The next week, he had two guys in the boat and two guys stationed at the boat ramp. He did not confront me and left before I did but that had bad possibilities all over it. I have not seen those guys on the water in 3 or so years, those muskies must have eaten all their day-um crappie! |
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Posts: 5874
| MSKY HNR - 5/29/2008 8:43 PM
Shep, you question why I would get angry a 45" class fish is handled this way? you would just laugh it off? Sorry, I guess I'm passionate about the sport and the fish ...yes, it is just a fish and I don't get too riled up when someone legally keeps one, but this fish was handled so poorly it did get me a bit hot.
These kids are fishing for muskies, i've seen them before. yes, they don't probably know a whole lot better as I remember the days when I started and handled some poorly too..but that doesn't excuse them from how they handled this fish...I know it was way longer than 2 minutes...I would honestly guess it was 4 or 5 minutes before it got back in the water..who knows if it will live...
I will talk to them at a later date and hopefully it goes well...and yah, maybe even take one or 2 out chasing them...
Yes, I do question why you were so angry, so angry that you had to leave, and not talk to them. You admit they were just kids. And I never said you should laugh it off. I did say, given your state, that you did the right thing by not confronting them. Passionate may not be the correct term here. Passionate would be controlling your emotions to the point where you could have calmly gone over to assist and teach. Out of control anger would conjure up another term, I think.
I hope you do run into these boys again, and I hope you offer, and they accept an invitation to fish with you. I know they would have a great time, and learn alot, including the proper handling of these fish. |
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| maybe you mis-interpreted how angry or not angry I was...I was ticked, yes, but "out of control"..hardly...I simply knew if I went over right afterwards after seeing how poorly it was handled I would have come across wrong...was I "out of control angry" ...hardly...just knew better...
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Location: Northern Wisconsin | i had something like this happen, i was fishing a small lake when a boat of 3 guys came up and asked for pliers, they said they forgot them. they had about a 40 inch fish in the live well and the live well was full of blood, they got the hooks out then took pictures then tried to release it, after about a couple minutes they declared it dead and took more pictures holding it vertically. as they were holding it, it started to shake and fell right out of his hand and hit the boat floor, well obviously it wasn't dead until it hit the floor. they again tried to release it but after the fall now it seemed dead. i didn't say anything this whole time, i was speechless. once they put it in the water and drove away in their boat i went over and tried to revive it but it would float belly up every time, about an hour later later i caught a 46, my personall best, a few hundred yards from that spot so maybe i got some good musky karma
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Posts: 720
| Brad,
There is no need to explain your anger level. You handled yourself like an adult. I love these folks who tell their stories of how they straighten these two guys out for improperly handling a fish and how they got the message when they saw how angry and threatening they were. Yeah, right. There isn't a man or woman that frequents this board that buys that crap. Acting like your a crazy idiot is just that. Even a kid knows that.
Your responsibilty as a musky angler is to act like a gentleman. Explain how the fish should be handled. Offer help to these boys in anyway you can. I like Shep last post. Offer to take them out and take the time to properly fish for musky. How cool would it be to stick another 40" plus and whatch them use the release methods you taught them. Yeah, big mouth it from your boat and acting all tough might make that person feel better. But it did nothing to help these kids and it certainly did nothing for the next musky these boys catch. Being fair and honest is the approach to take. Acting like a blowhard makes a person looks stupid.
Dave |
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Posts: 305
Location: Illinois | Ok, I'll bite because I think this happens more than we think or would like. I am pretty sure the guy who caught this fish frequents this site too as he did quite a bit of name dropping. Last year on the Fox Chain I saw a guy on Catherine driving around with his trolling motor. I wondered what the heck he was doing. After a few minutes I see that he is coming to me. He pulls up to my boat and asks if I will take a picture of his fish. I said sure, and expected him to pull a beast from the livewell. He proceeds to pull a 36-37 inch musky out of the livewell. I snap several photos, and say,"Boy, you must have something to prove to your buddies" The kicker is, he goes on to tell me about the proper release of fish and how I need a musky glove. If you are alone and absolutely need a picture, get a tripod. Don't search the lake for people to take pictures of your 36 inch fish. Keeping a sublegal in your livewell is illegal and who really needs another picture of a 36 inch fish?
For what it's worth, I think BN did the EXACT right thing. Walking away when irritated is the best decision, and you'll see them again and get the message across in a proacive way rather than coming acroos as angry and reactuive. |
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Posts: 1936
Location: Eau Claire, WI | Brad,
I think you did the right thing, best remain calm and approach them later when you can have a good discussion, maybe invite them to join the Capital City Chapter, etc.
Gotta say, that I too might have been a bit riled up to at the time...
One thought on the fish... I'm going to make an assumption that it might be floating in the area right now. Might be an opportunity for your local biologist, to get his hands on a mature fish to do some research. He and your chapter might learn a bit from the fish..age, sex, health, etc. At least then it isn't a total waste and feeds the seaguls.
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Posts: 5874
| bn - 5/30/2008 11:43 AM
maybe you mis-interpreted how angry or not angry I was...I was ticked, yes, but "out of control"..hardly...I simply knew if I went over right afterwards after seeing how poorly it was handled I would have come across wrong...was I "out of control angry" ...hardly...just knew better...
I guess I did read into it that you were more angry than perhaps you really were. Sorry. But, I'm just trying to make a point, too. I refuse to let a situation like this get me to the point that I can't take that opportunity to help the cause. Again, they were kids, and are impressionable. I hope so, at least. |
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Posts: 723
| Its pretty hard to tell someone on the spot that they are doing something wrong when they are in fact floating on cloud nine. They pretty much take that as an attack and will not use your advice.
This last weekend a buddy and I were in GB. Watched some guys boat a fish, spend way to long taking pics with multiple cameras, different poses, almost a couple drops of the fish, and as we troll towards them, watch them finally put the fish in the water, the guy reaches down, and deliberately yanks the tag out of the fish. All I said was, Hey, youre supposed to leave the tag in the fish and write the # down. That way the DNR can still track it. If the fish doesn't have the tag anymore, they wont know when, where, it was tagged, or, how it has been doing.
Well, all we got from his partner was a " why don't you mind your own *&%^$*& business.
I have made mention to a few anglers up in GB the past few years who have brought fish into their boat, used walleye nets, or kept them outta the water way too long, and all I ever got back was negativity. I would probably talk to them after the moment is over, or another day pending you see them again.
Its amazing how almost all of our attitudes have changed from way back when they used to club, shoot, and gunnysack fish. you gotta keep in mind tho, that not everyone is going to do things the way you'd like them to be done. especially a greenhorn with their first. |
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| Like most are saying, I think you did the right thing. I had a similar experience on the water a couple years ago where a father and two sons caught a 45 inch muskie and they kept it to mount. I met them at the boat landing along with about 4 other muskie boats because there was a bad storm that chased everyone off the lake. It was one of the kid's that caught the fish and it was his first ever and so he wanted to mount it. They asked me if I had a tape measure and a scale, which I did, and let them use both. Not that I have ever weighed a muskie on a scale, but I do have one in the boat for whatever reason. I told them nice fish and congratulations on your first muskie. Even though inside I was very disturbed about the fact they were killing a nice sized fish that was not even close to a trophy sized fish in my opinion, I kept those thoughts to myself. They were very nice people and who am I to judge someone on whether they keep a legal sized fish or not. This lake now has a 48" minimum, so that should help with issues like this. I really wish they made all muskie lakes 50" minimum. Good luck fishing all! |
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| I think people forget that we want to manage lakes so we can catch a bigger muskie, not so the muskie lives a better life. Your anger is not that the fish is being hurt, your anger is that it might not live and grow larger for you to catch it. That is the only reason C&R is practiced...You keep walleye, pike, trout to eat, so the actual killing of a fish is not an issue. I would guess at a young age you were taught to share and also that you cannot have everything that everyone else has. Muskies are like that as well. Once you realize why you are angry, you see just how silly it really is....
Edited by BenR 5/31/2008 12:59 PM
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Not to hijack this thread, but the internet has been a monumental tool for me personally when it comes to fishing knowledge. Whether it be learning new waters, new techniques, new baits, keeping up to date on conditions, making friends, etc...
Are there some tiresome things that go on? Sure, but weighed against the positives they aren't worth getting worked up over |
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Posts: 434
Location: searchin for 50 | I agree with BenR. It's only a fish and there will be other ones. Do what you do best. Catchem and releaseem. Some people will never get a clue on the release factor in a reasonable amount of time. |
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Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Good thread and advice here.
I have seen this all to offten with fish. Multiple camera shots with multiple cameras, dropped fish and dropped again, netting them and bringing them in the boat, etc. This is mainly because of lack of knowledge as to properly trat a fish for quick catch and release. I repeat:Lack of knowledge.
I will always offer my help in a few ways when I see this going on even if I see all the above going on and I am pissed.
1. I pull up and say "nice fish". That gets you in good terms already with them.
2. Then say "I couldn't help seeing you guys having some trouble with this fish".
3. Then explain how dropping a fish can hurt the fish or even kill it. Or keeping a fish out of the water for way to long can dry the slime, keep the fish from getting needed air, or even more time for that fish to get dropped again. All of this can add to delayed mortality. Even though it is released and swims away only to slowly die later that day or days later from the effects of poor handling.
4. Cutting hooks is also one lots of new muskie fishermen do not do. I see people working on getting that "hot" lure out of that fish without hurting the lure. KEEP NEW HOOKS IN YOU BOX for that reason.
5. Good net. This is where the fish should be worked on NOT, on the floor of a boat where the protective slime can get damaged or removed.
This is some of the things a person could suggest or talk about as you help with the release, take a picture for them, cut a hook and offer new ones to replace the cut up hooks on that "hot" bait. You would be surprised at how many people welcome the help and advice. Most everyone wants to learn more about muskies and the whole picture of catching and release. I have stopped and offered help to countless boats, only a few were negative and said "we got it" most will let you move up to them and then with a slow carefull start the info can be shared while you help or just watch.
Again, the "nice fish" intro usually will get the welcome door opened for you.
It is just a fish BUT it might be the fish that makes your whole season sometime in the future. Treat every fish as if its a trophy and there will be more trophys in the future. |
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| Mike Koepp wrote:
"It is just a fish BUT it might be the fish that makes your whole season sometime in the future. Treat every fish as if its a trophy and there will be more trophys in the future."
Great quote Mike....that is what we all should take into account... yes, just a fish...but it could be JUST the fish that makes someones year ..or lifetime of musky fishing! |
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Posts: 8781
| It's not worth getting in a fight over, especially if the person in question clearly just does not know what they are doing. Someone who knows better? Or should anyway? Well that's a different story. I might have been inclined to say something like "Jeez, if 'ya wanna kill it just whack it on the head already. No sense letting it suffer like that before it dies, which it now probably will from the beating you just gave it and having it our of the water for a week..."
Granted, that's not the best approach. And it probably would leave them thinking you are a jerk. But then sometimes being a jerk is the only way to make a lasting impression on people.
If it were me I would have talked to them right then and there. I would have done my best to be civil about it, but I also would have been very matter of fact about everything I saw, and telling them that there was little hope of a fish surviving after that. Chances are they just didn't know better. But you know what, ignorace is no excuse. |
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What would you do? Mishandling of a fish