|
|
| By now we've probably all seen the Mehsikomer video of him losing that huge Muskie on a Jackpot. I also have his "Close Encounters" DVD which shows him losing countless fish on Jackpots. Pete Maina once told me he only lands half the fish he hooks on Walk The Dog type baits. So my question is this: Why do people like Bob fish them so much? Is it because he simply likes to fish that bait, or because he's sponsored by them, or because he thinks the action of the bait entices those fish to strike better than other baits might?
Would those same fish NOT have struck a Lowrider, Thunderhead, Hawg Wobbler, or any other topwater bait with a higher ratio of hook-ups to landed fish?
I'm sure many of you, and also Bob and Pete fish much more often than I do, and maybe they don't mind losing a fish here and there. Being that I only get out a handfull of times per year, I try to use more high-percentage baits, and although I have a Z180 and Phat Boy, I rarely use them. Would I possibly get a few strikes I normally wouldn't have by using Walk The Dog baits more often, or is it simply a matter of preference.
Thanks. | |
| | |
Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | I haven't used them as often as the TV guys, but from what I've seen, they have some kind of trigger that will get fish's attention, fish that wouldn't have gone after other types of surface lures. Don't know if it is the sound, the rhythm, or the movement that captivates the muskies, but there is something that just grabs their attention. I've missed a good percentage of fish on these too, but I've also learned locations of fish that I came back later and caught on a different lure. I think that I am just too hair-triggered on the hook set using this bait. You see the fish more often than not before the strike and you are almost anticipating the hit, which doesn't help. The fish need to get their mouths closed around the lure and even better is if they are turning away before the set. Sounds great in discussions, but in the real world it's hard to put the hookset on a timed delay, at least it is for me. Maybe if we had more hits, we could experiment with the timing on the set. | |
| | |
Posts: 2024
| Brad,
From my experience, WTDs will elicit more strikes when other baits simply cannot. I don't know what it is about them. Possibly the erratic action. I LOVE them and ALWAYS have one rigged on LOTW. Have I missed fish on them? Yes, plenty. Plenty to the point I have a love-hate relationship with the baits. However, I have had the biggest fish I've ever seen strike one twice (and miss) and boated my 2nd PB last summer on one.
I would rather SEE a fish than not. Sometimes I will go through a spot with a WTD just in hopes of raising a fish. Then I can come back at a later date and stick her if she doesn't eat at first. They have their place and time. I would suggest brushing the dust off that Phat Boy and toss her this summer, especially if you hit LOTW!!!! | |
| | |
| Thanks guys. I like the Z180 more than the Phat Boy, but I'll bring both to LOTW when I go in July. I've used Topraiders up there before, but I'm usually in the back of the boat behind a guy using Topraiders and other topwater lures. I guess I figured in that scenario I'd try to throw a different type of bait, such as a Rad Dog. Maybe I'll try WTD baits more often this year. Thanks again. | |
| | |
Posts: 3511
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
I would agree that if you are #2 through a spot, that walk the dog may do the trick..especially if your partner up front raised a fish that didn't hit.
I think the WTD have that erratic nature that maybe can be described best in the way Bucher did as "the illusion of speed"
It looks like it is doing everything in its power to skitter away, but does not get far..
As far as hook-ups, I am usually tossing one as a throw back bait after a fish has followed but not hit...if they come for it, they more often than not (in my experiences with them) have at some point tried to hit it or successfully did hit it. Largest fish in my boat last summer (fat 46" in mid September) hit after following a lillytail.
Steve | |
| | |
Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | With the Weagle, I have a very high hook up ratio from fish that hit. Matter of fact, that is one bait that I rarely miss or loose fish on. Most of the time if they hit it, they are hooked. The only time I see fish miss the bait a little more often is in open water.
I told a buddy of mine that when a fish eats a weagle, 9 times out of 10 we are cutting hooks out of that fish because they eat it good. Could be because it's a bigger bait, but a WTD none the less. That is why I throw a weagle and not a jackpot.  | |
| | |
Posts: 159
Location: Stevens Point, WI | I LOVE WTDs, and throw them a lot. Like was already said, they seem to really trigger fish into attacking, and you certainly get to see plenty. I missed fish after fish at first, but once i learned to sit on it until i feel the fish shaking her head to set the hook i rarely miss one. The problem is operator error more than a muskie's bad aim. Even Mehsikomer will jump the gun a bit when he sees a 56 inch fish following behind the jackpot and he knows she is going to hit. BUT, he's also caught almost 100 fish over 50 inches, almost all of them on a jackpot. He fished a lot in prime spots, but i'm not going to argue a bit about figures like that. Seriously. | |
| | |
Posts: 3511
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | 12gauge - 5/1/2008 9:50 AM
BUT, he's also caught almost 100 fish over 50 inches, almost all of them on a jackpot. He fished a lot in prime spots, but i'm not going to argue a bit about figures like that. Seriously.
Well...not to start anything big (and off on a tangent here a bit), I highly doubt that number since so many fish are NOT measured or verified, but accepted as such... He does catch a bunch of nice fish, but I would bet if those were all measured, a majority of those fish would be in the upper 40's range.
JMHO on that.
Steve | |
| | |
| Great topic here. I must say that I am not surprised to hear many of the comments of those missing many fish on WTD baits. I have noticed when I put this style of lure on the end of a customers rod, they often cringe and I can tell their discomfort with WTD baits. Understandable too, when they start working the bait I can see where many people I believe are going wrong. In no way am I trying to be Mr. Know-It A here, but the vast majority of people I see working these baits tend to move the bait forward too fast, and use too large of glides during their retrieve. Sure you will get hits working it this way, but hooking percentage will suffer.
I prefer to keep the bait in a tight path with very sharp 180 degree swings. Several things this does... keeps the path of the bait narrow which makes it easier for the fish to get the lure in its mouth, second it keeps the lure from moving forward too fast, and third the sharper the swing the more noise you generally get off of the bait.
Now moving on to the design of the bait, it is absolutely critical that the bait have THREE HOOKS!!! Many fish hit the front of the bait, and without a hook there you are asking for another heartbreak. Take a look at a worn Jackpot and see where the how far the front hook marks are on the bait. They are in the back 1/3 of the bait. No wonder they miss so many fish.
Baits like my Fish Stick, Fish Stick HD, or a Weagle for example have this hook in front. I wouldn't have bothered to make my own WTD bait much less two different sizes if I didn't think there was an advantage to it. Sorry about the self promotion on the baits, however I truly want people to catch more fish... especially on topwaters. Notice the other bait mentioned in this thread that had good hooking was a Weagle (three hooks).
This is without a doubt, my go to early and late season surface bait, cold fronts, and any time I can't get fish to hit other surface baits.
To read more opinions on I have surface bait fishing, be sure to check out my upcoming article in the summer issue of Esox Angler Magazine this June. Hope you like it.
Lee Tauchen | |
| | |
Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I use the WTD lures quite a bit, and find the Weagle to hook up very very well. In fact, I'm always surprised if I lose one I pinned up. I work them a little different than most, and do very well both numbers and good average size. I move the lure quite fast, with tons of POP and pauses, and see fish I feel I wouldn't just plodding the thing along.
Like Lee, I feel the three hooks is very important. | |
| | |
Posts: 11
Location: St. Cloud, Mn | Haven't heard anyone mention a Viper yet. From what I've heard they are a higher hooking percentage WTD bait as well. Think its because they are heavier thus riding further down in the water as opposed to a light jackpot. I don't have enough time in with mine to let you know though.
Edited by Tippman 5/3/2008 7:21 AM
| |
| | |
| I've often heard that "The heavier the bait, the easier it is for the fish to throw". That was one reason I've stayed away from baits such as the Weagle. Is that just a dumb old saying, or is there some truth to it? | |
| | |
Posts: 20281
Location: oswego, il | The reason the weagle and the big recon from h20 tackle hook up so well is that they are not as easy to throw and they have three hooks. The weagle has three short shank mustads and the recon, three long shank. No matter where a muskie grabs these baits, there is a hook point in a proper location to make a good hookup. To me hooks and hook placement mean just about everything when it comes to hooking up with a fish. | |
| | |
| How are they to unhook then? I know a bunch of guys who consistently remove the third hook from Suicks, Reef Hawgs, Jakes, etc. With the three hooks on those baits, is unhooking the fish ever a problem? | |
| | |
Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Usually a Weagle is hooked up on the rear and middle hook for me, and takes a few moments to remove. Not any different than any other lure I toss, I'd say. Keep the Knipex available, just in case though. | |
| | |
| The 'old' heavy lures were never splitringed to the lures. So you add up lure weight with the limited movement of the hooks and that woud make it easier to toss the lures. That's what I would assume be the biggest difference between the baits of today. | |
| | |
Location: Northern Illinois | Derrys...........The baits you mentioned are NOT topwaters. I feel like it is comparing apples to oranges. I have never taken a Muskie to the eye doctor, but my experiences (how their hooked and where they are hooked) tell me they are getting a better "shot" at those underwater baits. With a WTD you have surface commotion and an erratic retrieve ( pauses, speed ups, etc.) possibly contributing to the fish simply not as being as accurate with their strike. I know they can successfully feed with just their lateral line but possibly being able to see the whole bait versus just the belly also contributes....I am no expert, just what I have seen. If a guy who fishes muskies for a living ( Lee's post) tells me three hooks is better, who am I to argue with him........... but to your question. KNIPEX!
Edited by Chibigboy 5/3/2008 1:46 PM
| |
| | |
Posts: 20281
Location: oswego, il | I find the light wire hooks much easier to remove than the 4X ones. Like Steve said, have your tools handy. I never have man issues removing the hooks and once a fish thrashes in the net, meny times they unhook themselves anyway. I never heseitate cutting a hook if I feel it will speed up the process. | |
| |
|
Walk The Dog = Low Percentage?