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| when is the absolute best time to use top water baits. |
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Posts: 282
Location: north west wisconsin | all the time,lol I like to use them on lowlight periods |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | Another vote for low light! They can work anytime for sure, but I get that extra confidence going under subdued light. I've caught them under clear skies and calm wind at noon on lightly stained water in the early season but I sure wouldn't bet on that being the hot presentation.
My favorite time is August, after sundown, after the mosquito attack subsides but before a big bright moon rises in the sky. Something about the dark, summer humidity and heat that drive the mosquitoes and muskies mad.
Of course, that's just what works for me. |
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Posts: 1462
Location: Davenport, IA | I have found them to work in water from 40 degrees on up. Remember, a muskie can swim very fast. Throwing topwater when fish are down deeper can work great. |
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| sometimes they work best when there is a lot of fishing pressure. |
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| Hey Bowman,
I just finished up what may be one of the most comprehensive and practical articles on surfacebait fishing that will be coming out in the summer issue of Esox Angler Magazine... that will be in June. This is a very complex question that really doesn't have a cut and dried answer. We have taken fish on topwater baits down to 35 degree water in the fall. Generally speaking, they seem to be best from low 60 degree range in spring, up to about 75 degree ranger in the summer. There is a point when water gets too warm and they seem to back off of hitting them. In the fall, they seem to strike them in much colder water. Probably due to the spawn in the spring of the year. Either dark water, or earlier season fish will strike them under sunny conditions. However, once water gets up to their comfort zone (70-74), lower light seems to be better generally speaking.
Hope this helps a little, be sure to check out that summer piece on topwater fishing in EA.
Lee Tauchen |
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| Thanks Lee. that was the kind of answer I was looking for, not that the others werent helpful, It just seems to me that from around june thru august I have had a lot of fish follow my top water lures but not ever hit them, and I have had them swirl just under the bait but no takers. Their was one instance I had a fairly nice musky ( 40plus) follow several different baits to the boat but I could not persuade him to bite, Im talking I would throw the bait out and bring it in and he would be following the bait and when I got to the boat he would turn and go back, I would change baits and throw out and here he would come following this bait all the way to the boat and would turn back when the lure would make it to the boat, I did this with like 4 different lures on several different trip but I never did catch this fish. it was very hot out and it was mid august. |
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| Great reply Lee,
Definately will be getting your full story in " The Next Bite " Thanks for your insight.
Don |
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| The best results I have had with fish with that sort of attitude is to come back at a light change, wind change, or at last light of the day. Try a walk-the-dog bait like my "Fish Stick" or something similar. These are the best triggering style surface lure. The other option would be to try a minnow bait worked very erratic with pops and rips.
By the way, I forgot to add that last year was my worst topwater season ever. We just happened to have some of the warmest water ever and the least rainfall. Without a doubt, contributing factors to a poor surfacebait bite.
Let's hope for a better one this upcoming season!
Lee Tauchen |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Lee, great minds must think alike....LOL My June-July issue in Musky Hunter was also on this exact subject...when is the "Right" time vs "Wrong" time for topwater. Alot of it has to do with water temps, how hot water temps are, how fast those temps rose, etc....
Also last year was my WORST topwater year ever also... No rain, no weather, water go to warm to quick = SUCKY TOPWATER BITE! LOL
So after you read Lee's great article, pick up the summer issue of Musky Hunter when it comes out and read a little more on the same subject! |
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I would agree 100% on last year being a bad year for topwater. Even in low light and into the "first dark" period it just didn't produce like if should have last year.
One thing I did pick up on, if my partner was NOT getting action on cowgirls, and pretty much eveybody I fished with threw them last year, I would have more strikes and less follows on topwater.
It really was a good indidcator on topwater action for me throughout the season.
Topwater bite was good in Sept., as usual for me. But horrible in July and Aug.
JS |
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| A great bait anytime of the year, but last year did seem odd although they worked well early season but not so well the rest of the year. Something to try every time out when conditions are right, switch to low light especially, or switch to sun after extended low light. Don't forget to include buzz baits in your topwater attack. |
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| Oh yea Mike - nothin' like a pacemaker just before sunrise thrown outta that Polarcraft ! I'll never forget that sweet memory.
Yes I'll be lookin' for your Muskyhunter article for sure.
Don |
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| great thread, everyone. lots of good info.
it's especially nice to have recognized experts and published authors on the subject willing to post and reply here.
thanks for your input Lee and Mike!
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Just sitting here pondering this "top water thread". So what really is the meaning of top water? Is it a specific lure style, a lure action, or is it a lure presentation method?
Does it mean any lure that splash's on the surface? If the lure goes under water and splash's back to the surface again, am I still fishing top water? What about just twitching a floating crank bait lure and making it splash, is this fishing top water? What about a Weagle? Is top water strictly limited to a certain class of lures, like creepers or prop baits? If I bulge a big double 10 spinner to the point I've got the blades breaking the surface, am I fishing top water?
Have fun!
Al |
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Posts: 156
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | I'm not exactly sure what article said your not throwing a topwater lure but rather a surface-subsurface lure. If anybody throws the rumbler you'll notice it rides lower than most prop baits or surfacebaits. That is the key feature of the rumbler as is the smaller blade. When fishing floating style baits with straight retrieves or walking the dog we are using surface lures.
Last year caught all surface fish in spring and early fall, hardly any fish in the warmer summer months night and day time. le lure Creeper in late spring got a 45 incher and a fat 46" in mid-sept on Lee Tauchen chopper.
Surface temps were very high last year over the summer months, had to fish deep structure.
Edited by needa70lber 4/18/2008 9:09 PM
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | I'd really like to hear the pro's think about my questions. Above Lee said "surfacebait fishing". I'm looking forward to reading his article.
The original post asks about "top water baits". To me that imply's a specific class of lure, i.e., creeper, prop style surface baits, and other floating lures that typically make noise like Weagle's, Krook's, Rumbler's etc. In my mind a true top water bait can't be fished subsurface, i.e., it's designed to fish the extreme upper edge of the water column.
Then there is another class of lures that can be fished both on the surface and subsurface. These are what I call my "cresent wrench" lures, i.e., they can be twitch'd, ripped, cranked, and walked, even glided.
Fishing topwater to me is a presentation method. The method can be more finely tuned by actual lure selection, i.e., one of Lees Creeper's can be fished in a variety of ways on the surface that one of my cresent wrench's might not be capable of, i.e., incredible amount of noise & splash if fished with erratic rip's or, infinitely variable pauses to allow the fish to get a good fix on the target.
Maybe your top water presentation wasn't working because you were not doing the right things with the lure, or you were using the wrong lure. One of the biggest muskies I've ever seen followed a creeper while pushing a +4" wall of water behind the lure. This was very early in my muskie fishing experience, i.e., I now know I screwed up because I didn't get the fish to eat on two separate cast's. Each time she came all the way to the boat & glided right under my feet. I didn't put any change up in the presentation, i.e., I was focus'd on the fish and just kept cranking in the creeper, I was not focus'd on making her want to eat- she was definitely interested. My point is I still see that +60" fish in my mind and in my dreams. If I had simply either tried to take it away from her, or paused it, the outcome may have been entirely different.
So when is the absolute best time for top water baits->In my opinion, anytime you are on the water, if nothing else works you should try a top water presentation!
The one real difficult period is post cold front! This is when you really have to slow down! Twitch-pause-twitch......pause................................
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 4/20/2008 5:48 PM
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Posts: 909
| Hey Bowman, when your lure gets about 15ft. from the boat, try putting your rod tip down in the water causing your lure to dive down under the water. Alot of times this will trigger a strike and also set you up for a good figure 8. can turn a follower into a taker!
hope this helps...Brian 
Edited by muskie24/7 4/20/2008 8:42 PM
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Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I had one of the best topwater bites last year I have ever experienced. I did well on several types of water, but most were smaller lakes under 1000 acres.
I used the Rumbler quite a bit, and did well. Rumblers seemed to shine when conditions were tough and I wasn't seeing many fish...if I had one up on a Rumbler last year, chance was it would hit. I probably move that lure slower than most do. Alot of my Rumbler action was bright, post cold front sunny conditions.
Weagles put over thirty fish in the Frabill for me last year, under all conditions and all times of day. If I wasn't seeing fish on a Weagle, then a Rumbler was called on. Of course, some days topwater wasn't the right presentation; in that case other lures were getting wet for obvious reasons. Most of the time that decision had to do with the type of structure fished, sky conditions, wind speed and direction, etc. Long story!
I work a Weagle different than anyone else I've seen use that lure, too...way faster, and way more erratic, but it works for me. Is it MORE effective? I think so, but couldn't prove it one way or another.
The Turd ( Snodlow style lure) put a few in the net too. So did a Violent Strike Mag Buzzer.
In short, for me there isn't a 'bad' time to toss a topwater, just times that are way better for the top, and other times not as good. I try to let the fish and the conditions tell me what to throw. I also feel there are different conditions where certain topwaters shine, and try to match those conditions to the right lure.
We also tossed a BS Willy Creeper some and caught a couple good fish on that lure earlier in the year. I need to give that lure more leader time this year. |
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Posts: 968
Location: N.FIB | I threw the double tens alot last year,not as much topwater but had some luck throwing the creeptonites in the early am last year.I didn`t have any luck throwing other topwater baits except one fish in the early spring on a globe. |
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Posts: 1289
Location: WI | I caught 3 or 4 on a Rumbler last year, one on a Teasertail, and a few follows/blow ups on other topwaters. So last season was alright for me as far as surface baits go. |
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Posts: 214
Location: Beaver County, Pennsylvania | can it be too early to start throwing top waters? i fish the ohio river a lot and it takes a while longer for the water to warm so i was kinda wondering how the river fish would react to a late april/early may topwater presentation. |
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Posts: 427
Location: Wausau | In WI when I used topwater (as others - low light and bluebird post cold front) I had the most action on a WaterChopper from Lee, very loud lure. However, stained water out produced clear water to 3 -1. When I was in MN, the smaller fish seemed to eat the top water and the larger ones just cruised behind. Along with water temps, wind, sun, etc - How much does water clariety play in a successful topwater year? In addition, if we have another "hot" summer, how does max lake depth effect the topwater bite. Most of the darker lakes I fish in WI max out at 40 feet or less - usually less. Can those fish become conditioned to the warmer water, unlike the deeper lakes with a thermocline? |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | "I try to let the fish and the conditions tell me what to throw." . For those who really know Steve W. This is a really funny statement, i.e., a box of rocks isn't telling Steve W what to throw! So Steve- give up the secret! Are you really a closet Muskie Whisperer?
Have fun!
Al |
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Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Al,
That's the real reason for the hydrophone... |
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top water