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Posts: 21
| im kinda new to muskie fishing and i know that these fish are not scared of line or anything but what is the smallest lb test braid i could cast topraiders with????i spooled my reel with 50lb powerpro do you think that would be fine for awhile until i upgrade or am i just waiting for that lure to go bye bye when i get a bad backlash????
all info would be great thanks! |
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | You'll be fine. If you ever snap one off on a cast, just go pick it up, they float.
S. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Yes. That is more than plenty. A lot of guys run 50lb. Only reason why I run 80lb. is because it costs no more than the 50lb. when I bought it. I found no reason not to run the 80lb. so I am. But you will be just fine. |
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Posts: 21
| ok thanks guys and sorno i know they float i just didnt wanty to have it snap off due to small # test line.....im going to upgrade to 80# powerpro but i just bought this size to start off.....and that was when i didnt know much of anything about muskies. |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | You will break 50 pound without a doubt. I wouldn't suggest using anything under 80 pound. If I was you I would go 80 or 100 pound test. 50 is way to light and will break in a heartbeat...I've seen it many many many times. Don't use it. With braided line, you have to look at the diameter of the line and not the "pound test" of the line.
Edited by MikeHulbert 3/22/2008 4:09 PM
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Posts: 1237
Location: South Portsmouth, KY | MikeHulbert - 3/22/2008 5:07 PM
You will break 50 pound without a doubt. I wouldn't suggest using anything under 80 pound. If I was you I would go 80 or 100 pound test. 50 is way to light and will break in a heartbeat...I've seen it many many many times. Don't use it. With braided line, you have to look at the diameter of the line and not the "pound test" of the line.
Agree with 50 pound test breaking. i just broke some old 50 pound power pro on my rattle bait rod inside the spool casting in my backyard!! |
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Posts: 1756
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | AGREED! 80 minimum, I prefer 130, but that is because Cortland does not make 100 in the green. I have never broken off the 130, but have been able to bend out hooks with it. Hooks are much cheaper than new baits and that is my reason for the heavy line. Also braidlash is much less common with larger diameter line as said by Mike. I try to keep the minimum diameter to "20 lb test diameter" as listed by most braid companies. |
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Posts: 21
| ok guys it may break off in a heart beat but im only going to use it a few times and then get some 80# pp.
and anyway topraiders dont weigh that much and like sorno said they float so its no big deal i guess.....just thought id get some info from you guys. |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | It doesn't matter if you use it once, five times, or a hundred times, 50 is to light. If you know it will break, why use it? Get the line made for musky fishing and your worries will be gone. It's just not about breaking it on a "backlash" it's more about breaking it on a fish. I would highly suggest getting 80 or 100 pound test before going out. |
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Posts: 1302
Location: WI | I snagged a Suick with 2 year old 100lb PP and it straightened the hooks out. That sold me right there.  I use 80 for bucktails and 100 for jerks and big topwaters. |
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Posts: 21
| ok thanks guys i get the point i should get 80lb line.
so when i get to the store ill get some but for now im going to make do with 50# pp.
and the first muskie i caught was a 40incher and i caught her on a medium action rod with a spinning reel and 8lb monofilament so im not worried about the fish breaking off. |
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Posts: 238
| muskykid08
8 lb 100% of the time I dont think so, You can say you got lucky!! Use 80 to 100 and forget about it!! Just trying to save a fish from be killed or injured!! Plus if you have a real big fish on and it snaps your 50 lb. you have no one to blame but yourself and a musky is swimming around with a topwater stuck down her throat!!! That is the point I think is trying to get to you, I hope you get the picture!! Just trying to change you mind from uses 50lb at all!! Not trying to be a jerk buthope this helps!! Thanks |
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Posts: 271
Location: davis,IL | I run only 80# stealth, I've broken off lures on the 50#. With the 80# hooks straighten out first, the only time I've broken the 80 is fishing where I know I'm rubbing rocks and chewed it up. |
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Posts: 742
Location: Grand Rapids MN | I used 50# when I first started and the biggest problem with it was the line would 'dig' into the spool. The line is just to thin and on hook sets or when snagged it buries itself and from then on you'll have problems of the line catching during casts. And like everyone else said, it didn't take much of a back lash to snap the line. From there I went to 65lb and that helped a lot but nothing has performed better than the 80#. Haven't tried 100# yet (Mostly 5500/5600 Abu's = smaller) but I'm sure there is no down sides to that. |
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Posts: 21
| ok thanks guys i just wanted to ask but now i think im regreting posting this thread.....but its all good.
I was just thinking of hitting the lake soon and i thought id ask if 50lb would be enough.....and im just going to use this line for 1 day and until i get to the store and get some 80lb pp.....so it doesnt really matter anymore.....i think 50lb pp will be fine for 1 day.
muskykid08 |
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Posts: 457
| I fish 50lb without a problem on my bucktail rods, never had a problem, never lost baits due to a failure. Never had an issue with fish breaking me off. I fish 80 for my jerkbaits.cranks/gliders.
50lb is adequate, as someone else said, "We aren't talking about hauling in Volkswagens." |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Trust me, with 50 you will have problems. DON'T USE IT, not matter for any kind of lure. Use what was meant to be used for musky fishing. 50 lb isn't it.... No reason to fish with stuff that will break. |
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Posts: 21
| ok mike i understand what you are trying to say but im going to use what i got which currently is 50lb powerpro and when i get a chance to get over to the store to get some 80lb powerpro i will but for now its 50lb line and im only going to use it for the few times i go out this next few weeks........besides im not going to be casting big lures, its spring and here that means go SMALL.
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Posts: 17
Location: Cherry Valley IL | Mike is 100% correct. If you ever get a back lash with 50lb you may loose it to the bottom of the lake. There are a few spots on the chippewa flowage that have my lures.
I saw the topic is topraiders. I personaly am not a fan. It seems about 1 outta every 10 get a little squeek in them. If you find one that has that extra sound hold on to it. |
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Posts: 144
Location: Green Bay, WI | OMG! I've been using 30lb mono all this time. Guess I'm pretty lucky I haven't lost all my lures yet. 
Edited by bobski 3/23/2008 7:29 PM
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Posts: 144
Location: Green Bay, WI | Of course mono stretches... |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | I would also highly suggest getting rid of all of your 30 pound mono as well. |
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Posts: 144
Location: Green Bay, WI | I have 80# PP on a couple rods and 30lb mono on the rest. I still prefer mono especially when trolling. |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | One night I was casting a topraider at night with 50# PP in the dark. Of course I had a nasty backlash, and the topraider broke free and sailed about 80 yards into the darkness. I assumed it was the line that broke, but no... the 100lb florocarbon leader crimp snapped. I guess it was the weakest link in the chain. I looked for the topraider for about 45 minutes, but it's pretty hard to find a black topraider on a windy night in the dark. never found it. |
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Posts: 158
Location: Burlington, WI | I never trust a leader that has a crimp either. Personally I don't think the crimp has nearly as much strength as a leader that is tied. I will only use leaders that are tied whether it be piano wire or florocarbon. |
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| there are some advantages to smaller line, such as more capacity on smaller reels and i find it's also more sensitive when using small twitchbaits and jigs. for me it's also easier to control and get good distance when casting small, lightweight lures such as small bucktails.
if you use lighter line such as 50lb braid, you need to adjust the settings on your drag appropriately. with the heavier lines you can get away with cranking the drag down all the way tight, you can't do this with 50lb. you need to make sure your drag will give before the line breaks. this is something that multi-species anglers usually have more practice and awareness about than muskie-only anglers. likewise, the rod you use with lighter line should have a slightly more forgiving tip because when fighting fish you need to play it a bit more instead of horsing it.
if you set the drag properly, you will be just fine using lighter line, i do so on my smaller low-profile reels to save room on the spool and it's great. the risk of break-offs on bad backlashes still exists, but if using a smaller low-profile reel you really shouldn't be getting backlashes anyway since these are easier to control.
learn to use your equipment properly and it opens up possibilities beyond hammering everything with the heaviest thing possible each time.
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | First of all, you can't trust all crimps. Secondly, 100 pound is to light for musky fishing and third, I would assume that the leader you had was some sort of china junk crap leader. Use good, quality stuff. |
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Posts: 2075
| 1) you absolutely can trust crimps done properly
2) Landed 100's of fish on 100 lb - no issues
3) Give me 50pp and a quality spinning rod and I'll put ANY muskie alive in the boat - 50 lb pp is plenty strong to land 200lbs tuna! However on casting gear 50 is too light because it will "dig" into your spool ...but the thought its too light to land muskies???? LOL!
Edited by IAJustin 3/24/2008 10:30 AM
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| couple things, 50 lb is plenty strong to land a musky. is it the right line to throw mag dawgs with, no, but say you have a lighter set up and know how to use your drag and fight fish properly you can land a 250 lb fish with 50 lb line. yes 250.
I've personally landed 20 lb pike and 60 lb sturgeon with 4 lb line.
100 lb fluoro is not to light for muskies, ever ask Herbie what lb leaders he uses Mike H?
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | My leader that broke was a SPRO, which I was told were quality, but learned they're not. (should've known when I saw the price). |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Yes I have, as he gets his leaders from the same place I get mine from...Stealth Tackle.
If you use 100 you are running a risk of getting bit off, having it fray way to easily, and having to change out your leader more often than you need to. Remember clear is clear....100 is just as clear as 300....so why not use something that is stronger, will hold up longer and is more resistant to fraying????
Sorry for trying to teach people anything....and sure you CAN use 50 pound to land a musky...but you can also SNAP it very easily...one big head shake...one crazy alligator roll up to the line and SNAP...
I am only trying to tell people what is BEST. But again, I know that I couldn't possbily know anything....
There is a reason why ALL the guides I know use 80 or 100 pound on EVERYTHING.......but again they probably don't know much either. |
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| so why do you only use 130lb?
if clear is clear and bigger is better why don't you use 300? |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Because it is VERY hard to tie the heavier flouro. We started tying 150 and now I have those. We had Jason Long request tied 200 and Stealth finally figured out how to tie that....so I am sure I will have some of those as well. It is all about getting a TIGHT quality knot and until recently 130 is all John could tie. Any other questions? |
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Posts: 376
Location: Lake Vermilion Tower, MN | I don't know why you would take Mike's advice, I mean he only does this for a living. I'd much prefer the advice of a guy that fishes 8 or 9 times a year.
I also use nothing less than 80lb test on any of my rigs. I use 50lb for pulling largemouth bass out of heavy cover, and I have had 5lb bass break off.
I caught a 52 incher on 8lb mono a few years ago, so what I was just lucky. If you want to fish for Muskies get the best equipment, don't settle for anything less.
Thanks for the tip Mike, there are some here that appreciate it.
"Ace" |
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| could depend on casting vs trolling too. I know some people who put over 100 fish in the boat per year, "just like Mike", and use 30 and 50 lb mono on their trolling rods.
many ways to skin the cat fellas |
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Posts: 21
| thanks for the advice again everyone im not casting a mag dawg im casting a topraider for 1 DAY and thats it until i buy some 80lb line.and again topraiders float so if i loose it i can go and get it |
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Posts: 198
| muskykid08 - 3/24/2008 12:08 PM
thanks for the advice again everyone im not casting a mag dawg im casting a topraider for 1 DAY and thats it until i buy some 80lb line.and again topraiders float so if i loose it i can go and get it
No one is saying that you won't be fine for one day or a few days. They are suggesting that if you plan to get out on the water for more then a few days, you should look into some heavier line (80-100lb)
Don't stress over the details... |
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Posts: 231
| Whoaaaaaa.... This thread has gone all across the map!LOL Muskiekid, if you live in the Chicagoland area, I'll give you a brand new spool of 80#PP. This way you won't even have to go one day without it.LOL I kinda of favor the Suffix & courtland brand myself.
Well I see we'll have plenty of conversation in youre boat, Mike (April 5th) Looking forward to it!! Hopefully the lakes will be ice free!
Chas
Edited by Chas 3/24/2008 1:51 PM
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Posts: 21
| i think all of you guys exspecially mike will be happy to here that i just got baxk from the store with a spool of 80lb powerpro annd im spooling my reel as I type this.just so there is no more arguements thats 50lb is too small....thanks for everyones help and mike is the one thay pushed me to not use my 50lb line for even a day....thanks for that too i know i will be much happier with the bigger line.
muskykid |
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| Sorry for trying to teach people anything....and sure you CAN use 50 pound to land a musky...but you can also SNAP it very easily...
absolutely, that's why you have to pair it with the proper rod/reel/drag combination and play the fish properly.
there ARE techniques (to catch more fish) which work better on lighter line or even on mono. other people have taught me that, and i took the time to listen, try it out, and discovered that it worked better for me on those techniques.
teaching's funny that way, sometimes it involves listening as much as talking.
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| 65lb braid + mepps maribou +backlash = lost lure.
That's my personal experience. Mike is right, using anything less is selling yourself as well as these fish short. |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Lambeau,
I have yet to ever find a reason I need to use anything less than 80 pound or use anything BUT a reel made for musky fishing like a Luna or a 400 TE. And I don't think "throwing a topraider" dictates using a bass rod and a bass reel or spinning reel. I simply use musky gear for musky fishing...and I would like to think I do pretty well. No need to use anything less in my opinion. |
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Posts: 32949
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I use 50# quite a bit on my low profile reels for Sue, and the low profiles I use when my hands get sore and tired. No problems breaking a lure off, because the line, lure, and rod are matched. The Topraider is a perfect lure for this application. All 50# test lines are not equal, I might add.
I ice fish gills with 2# test. I also ice fish them with 6#. I fish soft water bass with 6#. I also fish soft water bass with 12#. I don't use the same rod/reel sets for either set of examples.
I don't use 50# on my heavy Figs or Okumas and my Induron 400's, though. Those outfits are for the heavier artillery, and I use 80# there.
I don't give a tin horn what others use, this works great for me and has for years, and I'll keep right on using those outfits. And, it's all Muskie tackle. Right stuff for the right tackle, but that's my choice. Some use the same rods, reels and line for every application. I choose not to.
For my Muskie creatures I use 14 to 17# mono. No worries ever breaking off a fish, not going to happen, and way more effective on a spinning rod than superline. Still whip the fish in no time, too. One couldn't use 80# for that application if one had too. Mr. Hulbert, you fish the way you want, and I'll fish the way I want, OK? Doesn't mean you are right or I am right, it just means we use different equipment and we both are very successful doing so. |
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Posts: 583
Location: WI | I used 65lb all of last year and didn't have any problems w/ lost lures on a backlash or a fish snapping the line. However, I am making a move to 80lb this year just b/c I want to try to shorten up the fight a little bit more and I think the 80lb will give me more control over the fish. A quick release is what I am looking for. |
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Posts: 46
| MIKE JUST SEND THE KID SOME 80 POUND POWER PRO.... |
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Posts: 284
| All I can say is that if you are gonna throw 50 lb you better have a slower action rod. Power pro doesn't stretch and as soon as you get one backlash you are going to be cussing becasue your $20 lure can't be found. I think you would be able to use the 500 with a slower rod as the rod would take on some of the stress but then you won't have the hook setting power needed for the mighty esox masquinongy. SO JUST USE 80 OR HIGHER |
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Posts: 21
| guys i went and bought a few spools of 80lb powerpro so its all good...im not going to use 50lb line not even one time. |
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Posts: 742
Location: Grand Rapids MN | Like some of you have stated you have to match your gear properly but you also have to match your gear to the experience of the user also. It seemed to many read way to much into this. It's obvious that Muskykid is just getting started and doesn't have a lot of experience so I would have given the same advice as Mike H. You can cast and fish an array of lures with 80# test but have the security of the added poundage to help cushion the lack of experience. There are times when walleye fishing with my young kids that the fish prefer finesse presentations but I won't hand them a rod with 2# or 4# test just because I know they will more than likely break off on fish and not have fun. I see both sides and there are times when 'specialized' gear is required but I thought it was sound advice for a beginner fisherman with probably one, maybe two rods set up, and is just building his gear. Wish I had this advice years ago with my first rod and reel set up with 50# and watching my lure fly through the air after a backlash and break off! |
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Posts: 145
| Like my dad always says, "better have your drag set right" if you don't have it set, your screwed from the get go! I have lost a bulldog on the 1st cast using 30 lb mono when I first started, never even got to reel it in. ALWAYS double check your spool tension before making the 1st cast! ALWAYS! |
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Posts: 743
| I'll just throw my 2 cents worth in here.
65 PP for tails and small cranks
80 for topwaters and larger cranks
100 for jerks
I'd probably skip 65 in the future but I have 3000 yards of it. |
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Posts: 3915
| I personally use 40#pp on my jig/creature rod and 80#pp on everything else. I disagree with the notion that folks have to have 80# or more no matter what. I happen to love 80# PP, the stuff has never let me down. But the rod/reel/line/etc is a system; if everything is working right, especially the drag, it's amazing what you can bring to the boat. Consider steelheaders who use 6# mono for big fish in heavy current. |
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Topraiders?