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Posts: 113
| I am sure this has been brought up time and time again, but I was thinking hard about the "Fisherman's Ethics" I call them, regarding one's "own" spots. I have been going to LOTW every summer for my musky fix. I know that this lake has the potential to hold a fish on a every rockpile, weedbed,dock,or tree. But some spots,as we all know are "hot spots" almost automatic producers regardless of the conditions.
Personally I have a few of these hot spots that I have never seen fished by anyone, that is until someone spotted me fishing it.( I had a boat from another camp literally follow us from spot to spot, keeping their distance for that day and then pounding the spots every day after). Than all of a sudden it is on everyone's map that fishes that part of the lake. Is there a code that we should keep to? Or is it all up for grabs.
I share spots with my close fishing buddies and they do with me, but we keep it between ourselves and our group. But some how it gets out. I am not sure where I am going now wiht this, but I am curious to know what everyone else thinks..... | |
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Posts: 670
Location: Otsego, MN | I will share some spots with my close friends, but I am one who gets better satisfaction when I am out fishing and find something on my own. I have had people follow as well and I can honestly say that it ticks me off a little. But what are you going to do? Some times in the past I have stopped to fish a few spots I would consider nothing or garbage to throw the follower for a loop. I have even seen the same following boat out there weeks later fishing some nothing spot.
So I guess I share with friends but I like to find things on my own, part of the whole Muskie Hunting thing for me. IMO | |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | I'll answer the same way I answered on your poll about fishing someones dock. "No one owns the water" It might be lame of them to do, but there are no laws against it, so you just have to deal with it. | |
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Posts: 2024
| Spin the situation and take it as a compliment. They obviously wouldn't be following you if they didn't regard you as a good fisherman. | |
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Location: Illinois | Unless you drive an invisible rig, people might continue to hit your favorite spots. If you spot a tail, than quickly move to another area so they don't think you like that spot too much. If you cannot shake them, keep moving spots- sooner or later, they'll get the hint. A good spot doesn't stay secret for very long on smaller lakes. Either, A) the spot wasn't as secret as you thought, or B)people recognize your boat there everytime you fish, and figure it's worth a try. As for big lakes, I'd suspect that new fisherman are trying to speed up their learning curve by "copying" your work. However, one never really knows, maybe a good friend told them about that spot or maybe they picked it out themselves by chance the night before on their lake map. To me, there is no "code" with respect to spots, other than if someone asks you to keep it quiet- you do not tell anyone else except those in your boat. If you feel a spot is getting "burned", go out and discover the NEW hotspot for yourself! Then, only fish it at night without your lights on. If you show anyone else the spot, kill them immediately afterwords. Keep your GPS lake chip locked in a safe when not on the water and burn all of your maps. Stealth manuevering is essential. (just a hint of sarcasm) Mike
Edited by muskellunged 3/13/2008 1:00 PM
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Posts: 8781
| I have struggled with this idea since... Well, since I can remember. And that's getting to be quite a long time these days...
If someone shows you something secret, like a good spot? That's sacred, man. That's an honor that you better respect. While there is no written "code", any serious angler understands that respect for other anglers is as important as respect for nature and the resource.
I had a secret spot. I had a secret LAKE. It was private, and the owners new I fished there. I'd wave, they'd wave. I put everything I caught back, and they looked the other way. Until the day I brought a "friend" there, who returned with a carload of his buddies during the week, had a party, and absolutely trashed the place. We're talking bonfire, busted up lawn chairs, dead fish floating, fireworks, shootin' stuff, loud car stereos at 3:00 am, drunken idiot %^$&ers...
Of course nobody told me this until the next time I went to fish there and met the owner, armed and irate, who promptly told me if he ever saw me again he'd blow my head off.
Haven't seen that "friend" in a dozen or so years, but if I ever do, rest assured I will beat him until he stops moving.
As for following someone else around? Bad form. If you want to know whetehr a spot is worth fishing? Fish it and see. I just pretend whoever is fishing there knows even less than I do and those spots just don't seem appealing anymore. | |
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Posts: 1769
Location: Algonquin, ILL | I had some clowns follow me and a freind around on the Fox Chain one day, so I just chose some really bad spots, we pretended we had some follows and moved on, The clowns spent the rest of the day chasing ghost follows.
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Posts: 3867
| Folks that stalk other fisherfolks are excptionally poor sportsmen, though that doesn't happen to me often.
But this is more common for me: I'm working a weedline, drifting with the wind and using my electric motor to stay in position, and then someone fly across the lake to take up a position just downwind of me, assuming my same approach except they now have "first crack" at the structure I am about to fish. When this happens I fire up the gas motor and buzz up to them. In a friendly way I ask if they realize they cut me off and and add "Rather than compete for structure, wouldn't it be better if we shared information that would increase both boat's odds of moving fish?" I'm not mad, I'm smiling. If they still don't cooperate, to avoid conflict I let them have their way. Like Bob Weir sings, "They ain't gonna learn what they don't want to know." and there's lots of other water for me to fish. I often move back behind them and keep fishing. After all, they already proved they're dumb, so there's a good chance they unknowingly stirred up a fish, missed seeing a follow, etc., and now maybe I get a crack at a hot fish.
I've occassionally realised that I actually cut off a boat. When that happens I quietly ease up and apologize and ask if they want to share info before I move to another part of the lake. No matter what, we always have information that is useful to share, right? If neither boat has seen any action, we can at least tell each other what's NOT working. I try to get along with everybody on the water.
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| Join a tournament sometime. Everyone and their grandpa will fish on top of you, it's musky-fever. Everyone assumes everyone esle is doing well and when they aren't they tend to try the spots where others are thinking "they must be on fish."
I've actually had people cut in front of me while approaching a shoreline to get to the same spot, 1 of the three times it happened I landed a fish on my 2nd cast...that feels better than seeing some dink speed past you and get nailed by a trooper.
My point is if you want secret spots that matter, fish for panfish. I don't believe in secret musky spots, only good timing, hungry fish, presentation, and some luck will put fish in the boat. A single spot will never produce day in - day out.
The musky world is small, with some respect for each other on the water who knows, that dink following you around might be your next friend, or even better, a friend with a pier! Either way, I've never met another musky hunter that didn't share my passion...hunting musky!
Cheers | |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | People following you and watching what you are always doing is part of the game. I see it almost daily in Indiana and even in Minnesota. People forget how well sound travels across water and I hear them all the time...."Hey Hulbert's guys are both throwing______." Then about 4 seconds later, I see them digging in their tackle box looking for what I have my guys throw.
It's part of the game. I look at it like this...if people are worried about where you are fishing and what you are using...then they are not very confident in their own techniques or fishing abilities. | |
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How many muskie fishermen haven't learned a spot by seeing someone else fish
it?
I would imagine very, very few.
Why worry about it?
The best spot on the lake is one you probably haven't found yet.
JS | |
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Posts: 2089
| Hahahahaha. " So Steve, black and red huh?" "How did you know that?" " I was watching you and your clients from the trailer with my spotting scope". True story. Funny and kinda scary at the same time. Sooooooo, what's the range of those spotting scopes??????? Steve | |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | My suggestion is to drive a boat that's fast enough that they can't keep up with you. m | |
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| I have been sharing info and spots for years and years. I've shared some of the best spots on Eagle Lake. I have fished and caught some very big fish over the year, but at this point in my muskie fishing career, it means more to ME, to see someone else catch a big fish, rather than me. Is there something wrong with my thinking?
Muskie fishing is a sport that should be shared with everyone. I'm not saying go out, find a total stranger you've never met before, and say, "Hey, let me show you a spot that has produced 12 muskies over 50"." No, I'm talking about sharing with friend, club memeber, and the like. If they screw you, and start camping on the spot, just chalk it up as a valuable lesson. Don't share anything with him again!! VERY SIMPLE!!
Just my 2 cents worth!!!
Donnie  | |
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Posts: 8781
| Donnie, we're not talking about sharing with friends. I think everyone here would be happy to help someone they know catch a fish. If I like you I'll tell you everything I know, (which ain't much) everything I believe to be true (how much time 'ya got?) and anything else I can think of that might help you catch a fish. Sharing information is part of muskie fishing circles. But someone following you around, or taking a bunch of people to a spot or lake you showed them in confidence? That ain't right. My example above is a perfect illustration of what can happen when someone you think you can trust turns out to be an idiot and winds up wrecking something for you. I'd bet there are spots on Eagle that you don't share with people, aren't there? Or at the very least show a little discretion in who you show them to? | |
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Posts: 7038
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Guys, seriously, get over yourselves! They arent your lakes, they arent your spots, they sure as hell arent your fish. If you're so worried about people fishing the spot or the lake or the pattern that you fish then dont talk about it online or , dont fish when others are on the lake, or only fish at night when wearing all black under the cover of darkness.
It's a fish, and for most, it's not your way of life. The funnier side of this is that the guys who do or did make a living, or at least a portion of their livinig (Hulbert, Jonesi, Donnie) that chimed in on this thread are more Ok with the realities I stated above. It's the guys without boats or the time to fish as much as they want who get all wrapped up in this. Here's a reality check for you nubies and those without the means: they catch your fish, and others catch your fish when you're not there. They catch your fish on your spots, or their own spots so much more often than you do for three reasons: they know how to fish better than you do, they know where to fish better than you do, and they fish more than you do. So, my suggestion is either quit your job and fish til you run out of money, become a guide THEN run out of money, or quit crying and learn to fish better.
Relax, have fun, more like Ranger, less than you think you need to be.
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | Slamr - 3/14/2008 11:00 AM
Guys, seriously, get over yourselves! They arent your lakes, they arent your spots, they sure as hell arent your fish. If you're so worried about people fishing the spot or the lake or the pattern that you fish then dont talk about it online or , dont fish when others are on the lake, or only fish at night when wearing all black under the cover of darkness.
It's a fish, and for most, it's not your way of life. The funnier side of this is that the guys who do or did make a living, or at least a portion of their livinig (Hulbert, Jonesi, Donnie) that chimed in on this thread are more Ok with the realities I stated above. It's the guys without boats or the time to fish as much as they want who get all wrapped up in this. Here's a reality check for you nubies and those without the means: they catch your fish, and others catch your fish when you're not there. They catch your fish on your spots, or their own spots so much more often than you do for three reasons: they know how to fish better than you do, they know where to fish better than you do, and they fish more than you do. So, my suggestion is either quit your job and fish til you run out of money, become a guide THEN run out of money, or quit crying and learn to fish better.
Relax, have fun, more like Ranger, less than you think you need to be.
Killjoy. Just when people are getting whipped up into a good froth, you have to go throw soap into the mix and clean it all up.
S.
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Posts: 8781
| I especially like this part:
"quit your job and fish til you run out of money, become a guide THEN run out of money, or quit crying and learn to fish better."
Except that you forgot to add "before you run out of money because you spent too much time fishing"...
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | In todays world, secret spots are laughable. In my opinion there are two types of "spots."
There are obscure spots. These are the ones that don't jump off the map at you but are very productive. I have news for you though, lots of folks still know about them.
There are community spots (my least favorite) that everyone fishes but are still productive. These jump off the map at you and anyone fishing the water will check it out at least once.
There are unique areas on each and every spot, the spot on the spot if you will. These are the money makers. Secret, still probably not, but by far the least known.
Most of these spots on the spot involve a change in bottom composition, an inside turn or a point that you will not notice unless you pay very close attention to your electronics. They really concentrate fish, and are the most productive areas on a structure. I show people these so called secrets everyday I guide. Some will be able to go back to them, most can't because they don't understand the complexity of why that little area really ticks.
In a nutshell, those that understand the spot on the spot will catch fish consistently, those that don't won't.
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'll happily share a spot on the water with anyone I know is going there to fish. Some I guarantee I'm going to be lonely in if I don't share, because I fish weird. | |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Just as one well-know musky website adopted - for a time - the slogan "Fish Better", perhaps MFirst should seriously consider "Fish Weird"?
That's cool, Steve, I likes it. m | |
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | sworrall - 3/14/2008 12:08 PM
... because I fish weird.
I wouldn't necessarily say it's weird, but you do fish a spot more thoroughly than anyone I've ever fished with.
I remember a day in 'Crazy ol' Man Bay' on the Goon where we started on the outside edge of the second bed of weeds away from shore - casting from outside towards shore. Next we went to the water between the 2 weed beds paralleling shore and casted to the inside edge of that weed bed; then a quick 180 w/ the boat and we fished the outside edge of the weedbed closer to shore. We soon followed that up with a pass on that inside of that weedbed (I swear, the boat hull had to be in mere inches of water). Done yet? no way. We then proceeded to start at one end of the bay and work the boat away from and back towards shore perpendicular to our previous 4 passes all the way across the bay again. Did we get fish? Yep, quite a few pike, with at least one being a real dandy smashing your 'unbucktail' after having seen that lure no less than 3 other times. I don't think there was a quart of water left unfished in that whole bay. And as we left, you told me, "If we'd have seen anything in there, we would have stayed and fished it hard"!
What I learned - Sometimes secret spots are no more than any average spot fished correctly.
S. | |
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| hmmm interesting to think about...imo, there are very few "secret" spots...I guess maybe on a very remote musky lake that has only been fished by a hand few of musky guys ever there "could" be a spot that nobody has fished...maybe.
Otherwise there are no spots that are "secret", or anyones, like Slamr so eloquently put, there are spots maybe you have never seen anyone fish while you are there, but highly unlikely it's a secret if it's a good spot...we all take que's from other musky fishermen, anyone that says they haven't learned at least one spot they fish by seeing someone else fish it or having been shown by a friend etc is probably not thinking hard enough...we all do it..nobody owns the spots, nobody owns the lake or the fish... sharing spots with other musky friends is fun, I still look back at the houseboat trips to Lac Seul where at the end of the day we all whipped out our maps and showed each other where we saw or caught fish...did we want those maps at the end of the trip posted on the net or passed around to every Tom, Dick and EA, no...we didn't..I know the last time I fished it I found a small spot that I never saw another musky boat on in the 3 week long trips I took there,, but was it a secret, no, and will someone else fish it..I hope so! there were 2 bruisers on it side by side and hope they got hooked!
but there should be some etiquette or "code" to some extent...we've all learned from others, all learned spots, lakes, patterns etc and we all continue to pass that on, but it should be pretty easy to figure out where that line is..once crossed I guess you just burnt that bridge!
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Posts: 113
| I think this post didn't go the way I thought it would. I have noproblems sharing information with people I now and trust. Personally it is a nice pat on the back when you tell someone a spot and they catch a fish or two.
I do understand that the lake isn't mine and that the spots are not either. The truth is that I get a couple weeks a year to see what kind of pressure a spot gets. The other 15 weeks of the season I am sure these spots get hit.
But what is a bummer to me is when you do tell someone a spot, they tell everyone at work and then all of a sudden the whole local town knows the spot and you need to fight for time to get on it, mostly with people who live there and aren't spending a thousand bucks on a trip.  ( Colorado sucks)
I make it a goal when I am up there to find 2 new spots a day, so It isn't like I would be short on spots and get complacent in finding new ones. The reality is that there are no "secret spots" Just ones a little less known.
And Slamr, it has absolutley nothing to do with skill or lack there of. If someone I dont know catches a fish on a spot I fish as well, good for them, I have seen it happen before, the point is when a spot gets ruined because people overfish it and tell everyone and there brother it is a bummer.
I really enjoyed what people had to say about this topic, a bunch of different angles and a bunch of different perspectives.....
Edited by Will Dykstra 3/14/2008 1:59 PM
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Posts: 7038
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | And Slamr, it has absolutley nothing to do with skill or lack there of. If someone I dont know catches a fish on a spot I fish as well, good for them, I have seen it happen before, the point is when a spot gets ruined because people overfish it and tell everyone and there brother it is a bummer.
*actually, I'd fight you on that point. How you approach a spot, what angles you use on your casting, how many casts you put on a spot, how fast or slow you retrieve a bait, what bait, color......then add in the when and conditions....
If Newbie Fisherman X fishes Hot Spot A 50X vs. Experienced Fisherman Y fishing Hot Spot A 50X....you seriously dont think there is any difference in what they'll catch? Fish out of AML for a week: everyone fishing the same spots (basically) and there are maybe 100 spots marked.....seems funny that the guides fishing those same spots, using even the same lures....they seem to catch more fish on those same spots.
Or, maybe people fishing where you want to fish is just a bummer. If that's the case, stop fishing. Muskie fishing is growing, muskie information flow is going faster and faster....if you dont like other muskie fisherman fishing your fish, probably best to find your own new Lake or Spot Xs....or take up a new hobby.
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| Kinda 3 things going on here.
Sharing Spots with Others
It depends on whether I like them or not. Of course I would share spots with my friends. With someone I just met, I am very likely to help them a bit if they have a kid along. If they are respectful and friendly and ask the rigth questions, sure. BTW - I also confirm they are CPR fishermen before I will share anything. I will not share with those who keep their fish.
Sharing Others Spots
Will not do it without their permission. I view a spot that someone else gave me as theirs. I will not pass that spot on to others. This is important since I go out with guides a couple of times a year. I view the spots and lakes a quide shows me as secret.
Getting shadowed
I am not a guide so it doesnt happen too often. The few times it has, doesnt bother me as long as a repwectful distance is kept, or we start talking and end up closer than usual (happened last fall). | |
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Posts: 2865
Location: Brookfield, WI | I have a spot I've kept secret. The only person who knows about is my wife. Right now it's pretty itchy. If I share where it is, will someone scratch it for me? If not, I'm going to have to find a stick and do it myself.
Kevin
Is it safe?
Edited by MuskyHopeful 3/14/2008 3:00 PM
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Posts: 128
| Everybody knows there's only a couple good spots on every lake | |
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Posts: 3867
| Hopeful! What a hoot! I know I guy who has half of his granpa's old cane pole. I'll get it for you and suggest you scratch from a distance. | |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Will,
One needs keep in mind that others may regard your presence on a 'spot' much the same as you regard them.
'Spots' are good because there are fish there and people fish them and catch the fish.
Popularity of entire systems cycles, too. No worries, in many cases give it time, and 'this too shall pass'. | |
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Posts: 113
| Steve,
A very good point and it is true, I am sure that most of the places I fish ( no longer calling them my spots) were someone else hot spots too or are someones too.
I have noticed several spots to be less fished than they were a few years back... | |
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Posts: 331
Location: Stevens Point, Wisconsin | I think that there are spots less traveled and less pressured that are good because of it. I think as anglers we have spots that we think "we" discovered because we never see anyone else fishing them. But it dose not mean others have not or are not fishing them. A good stick will eventually decipher the spot or stumble upon the spot just like you. If you found it through good homework or on a hunch, other good sticks will eventually come to the same conclusion. Others may in fact have been fishing "your" spot long before you, so it actually may be "their" spot that you are fishing.
I think we give ourselves too much credit sometimes. I have come to find out that spots that I thought were spots I discovered on LOTW’s were spots well known to good sticks! The only exception I can think of would be say someone like Doug J on LOTW’s. He was fishing spots on that body of water before anyone else (hell before I was born) think how he must feel every time he pulls up to an old honey hole?
Ed
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| hence why people say lake X.
and why people black out there pictures etc etc.
i see nothing wrong with it. | |
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"Secret Spots"