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Posts: 314
Location: Bristol, IN | How many of you fellow fishermen have some sort of sponsorship? I'm going to be fishing the WMT this year and adding several more dates in 2009.
In the process with a local RV manufacturer furnishing us with a vehicle/ lodging.
Any feedback will be very helpful. | |
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Posts: 282
Location: north west wisconsin | i too am wondering the same, as I will be fishing wmt also | |
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| What do you offer in return is the answer.
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Posts: 1529
| sponsors have been repeatedly burned. its what you have to offer in a sponsorship relation.. one thing thats looked for is people skills and decent representation of the products sponsored. its a tuff game in todays enviroment. | |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | One needs remember what the 'product/services' being offered the potential sponsor is, and know how to present the features and benefits professionally. That product would be YOU.
As a devil's advocate, I'll ask questions here I'd ask when approached for sponsorship from one of our clients:
What are your qualifications to act as a promotional agent for us?
How many events will you be participating in, and in what areas?
How much writing/public speaking/personal promotions activity can we expect to see?
Will my product logo be placed on your tow rig and your other equipment so it's attractively displayed and advantageous to our brand recognition?
Will you have our product logo displayed on your event clothing in an area where any imagery taken on the water, on the stage, or elsewhere of you will clearly display our logo?
What will you/can you do for me in your activities to assist us in selling our product to the general public? Just fishing a tournament trail will do little or nothing, especially a trail that gets almost no media coverage.
How much of your time will be dedicated to promoting my product?
How will you accomplish acquiring 'impressions' in various media for us?
And so on------------------
Frankly, winning an event is fine, but how many times will that happen? I need to know what you can do actively promoting our service or product ON and OFF the tournament trail. | |
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Posts: 1270
| To ad to Steve's post what does the company have to gain in spending the money on you as opposed to using the same amount of money on other advertising?
I hate to say it but it's very rare for a company to get anything out of sponsoring most tournament fishermen. I am not trying to knock the WMT but who really pays attention to them? Other that the spouses of the contestants and a very few locals who is at the "wieght ins"? How much press coverage do they get other than 1 or 2 photos in MHM? And if you don't finish first nobody knows about you.
IMHO you are better off worrying about fishing than about getting sponsors. Rack up a good record of wins and places and if you are valueble to a sponsor they will come looking for you but don't be disapointed if they don't.
Walleye guys have a hard time competing for sponsors against the bass guys for good reason and unfortuanatly musky guys are not even close to the walleye guys yet.
One other thing to remember is to not sell your soul for a sponsorship. If you are not already using the product DO NOT even thinks about asking for sponsorship or accepting it if offered. What does that teel someone when you will change brands just because they gave it to you for free? In my mind all that says is that you will go wherever the money is and you have no integrity. | |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'What does that tell someone when you will change brands just because they gave it to you for free? In my mind all that says is that you will go wherever the money is and you have no integrity.'
If the product is quality, the sponsorship available and reasonable and the current product one uses pays zero/contributes zero and said they will continue to pay zero, I'd take it in a New York Second...that's business, not 'integrity'. Loyalty to those sponsors who take care of the Pro of course is important, but aint usually free, especially for the 'big guns'. | |
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| there are a few teams on the wmt that make you take notice and most know full-well who they are. a short list of guys that i would think might be pursued if any by companies that would want some publicity would be schweik-hillman, lijewski-schroeder, gillich-gaiche, barnett-hill, krejci-krejci these guys within the small circle that fish the tournaments are the best know in my opinion and could sell me on the merits of a product. i would venture to guess that even these guys have to be successful outside the wmt to get and keep any significant "money" from a sponsor.
i've seen the billboards splashed on other rigs and trucks that come to fish the wmt and remember day two of a brain-baker on boom a couple years ago watching about 150 grand worth of truck and rig driving down the road on their way home early with 5 hours yet to fish on day two ... that sponsor wasn't getting their money for it ... lol ... lots of money in a rig that basically quit, people notice that too.
there's a difference in trying to get a company to pay for your fishing and being a team that draws attention from companies who want them in their products.
if you aren't being pursued by sponsors, it's going to be tough to pursue them ...
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| add the wojtusik's to the list | |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Believe me, most Muskie teams won't be chased down by many potential sponsors.
And, a GREAT couple of anglers who win events may not equal a team worthy of a major sponsorship. | |
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Posts: 1270
| Steve, I disagree with you. If a person is not willing to spend there own money on an item and then switches to it when it's free all it says to me is that they are after what is free and not what thye believe is the best. I believe that there is some products out there that one couls switch to and feel confident that they are using a quality product even if they never used them before. Say for example a guy has used St. Croix his whole life and then switches to G. Loomis I'm sure he could feel confident that G.Loomis makes a great rod, as they both do, but if I knew beforehand that he used St. Croix and only switched to G.Loomis because he got sponsored by them everything he says about any product would come with a grain of salt IMHO. | |
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Posts: 1270
| THe real question is what does the sponsor get out of sponsoring someone? How many people, besides other tournament fishermen, see them and are influenced by them? | |
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| sworrall - 3/3/2008 11:00 AM
Believe me, most Muskie teams won't be chased down by many potential sponsors.
And, a GREAT couple of anglers who win events may not equal a team worthy of a major sponsorship.
agree completely. and that's why i made the comment that they'd have to be able to both do that and have something big on the side whether it be guiding, tv or video which applies to gaiche, schweik, lijewski and when i hear those names i think of gander mountain, frabill, minn-kota, hummingbird and musky innovations and others can figure out which is connected to whom. | |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Reelman,
A sponsor is a business partner and a contract, and changing or adding a sponsor should be no different than perhaps changing jobs might be to others. If I'm running Stren and ask them to consider me...they say no...and Trilene steps up, it's Trilene without even a second consideration with no worries about what you think; one has to fund the year in competition and 'free' or 'what I bought before'don't get that done. The product needs to be of quality; that pushes both ways, and changing SPONSORS is a common and necessary occurrence in the business.
As an example, I used Minn Kota Electrics exclusively for years. Good electrics, treated me well. A few years ago, things changed there, Sam Heaton went to a different division, Steve Vogts went to Frabill, the Promotional agent left and was replaced by someone who didn't know the history there and I needed to look around. Since I'm delighted to be a member of the Mercury Marine National Freshwater team, and Mercury partnered with Motor Guide, I tried a motor (bought it), was impressed, and negotiated a relationship with them integrated into my Mercury agreement.
Sorry, but it doesn't matter a whit what a Pro 'used' on a personal level before a new contract is signed. | |
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Posts: 1270
| It may not matter business wise for the "pro" but to other people I really do think it matters. How many times have you hear people say "He get's it for free so what he says doesn't matter anyway"? This feeling from "Joe fisherman" is due mainlly to "pros" jumping ship whenever a little better offer comes up.
To take this to an extreme I noticed one guy in TV who has both hunting and fishing shows recently using and promoting BSA scopes. Steve I believe you are also a hunter and there is no way a serious big game hunter who travels the world hunting is going to be putting a BSA scope on there rifle. Not that I really had any believe in this guy before now I will not believe a thing that comes out of his mouth as it's obvious that all he is doing is going for the companies that pay him the most regardless of the quality.
There is also something to be said about loyalty. Sponsors to pay attention to these guys and those that jump ship a lot suddenly find themslef without sponsors and with nobody wanting to sponsor them anymore.
I commend you for your deal with the trolling motor. You went out and bought one and decided that it was a good product before asking for sponsorship.
We can agree to dis-agree on this but one thing I will say is that I get asked for sponsorship A LOT and to put it simply if they are not currently using my product there name get's thrown out on the first go round. | |
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Posts: 193
Location: Mayer, MN | Jayco, Forest River, Sun Lite? Just go get a big Monaco coach. Good luck Mike!
Elkhart County, RV Capital of the World and my hometown.
Edited by lots of luck 3/3/2008 12:06 PM
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | If I was a Pro:
Do I use your product?
If I don't, and have a tremendous capacity to promote it well, have a proven track record, and the rival product I use isn't a contract, and I was to approach you, you would eliminate my name out of hand?
You may miss some really great opportunities.
Keep in mind it isn't always (in fact RARELY IS) the Pro who changes, reduces, or eliminates a contract forcing a move. Bill Ortiz runs a Ranger now, why? Because Polar Kraft eliminated the entire Walleye promotional program for absolutely no apparent reason other than new owners. What are the Triton walleye pros who were dropped to do? I would search out and acquire a new contract, you can bet on it. And you, as an observer, would not know why I changed brands when 2008 WalleyeFIRST coverage of the FLW/PWT begins and I show up in a different rig.
It is very very rare a Pro jumps ship for a 'little bit' better deal.
A guy is running a brand who is a client of ours. he comes to us and says another brand, a direct competitor, has offered him a 'free' rig to use, a paycheck, and expenses on the PWT. Man that's the brass ring they all work so hard for! Since our client doesn't do that sort of contract, I told this well respected fellow to go get that deal as fast as he can. So he switched brands...and you don't have a clue why... and you feel he's he's 'less believable'? it's part and parcel of this business.
Parsons and Kavajecz...Tracker Marine...they didn't start there. Yar Craft, Skeeter, then Tracker. If I had the chance to work with them as a major builder's agency, I'd sure make the attempt, but I'd probably lose because Tracker treats them very well.
You think Jordan always wore the same brand undies? | |
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| lie and tell them you are fishing the B.A.S.S! | |
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Posts: 1270
| I believe we are talking apples to oranges here. I am commenting on the guy who is starting fishing musky tournaments as opposed to the guy who has an established track record and a "known name" Even comparing any of these fishing guys to Jordan is way different. | |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Won't help you much, there were some major sponsorship changes in the BASS world this year too. | |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | You think G Loomis will hook me up if I have their logo tattoo'd on my body? | |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | But even before Bill Ortiz was with Polar Kraft, he had been in three other boats in a matter of four seasons. He started off with Lund, moved to Tracker, then to Polar Kraft where he was for a couple seasons. Now like Sworrall stated, he's in a Ranger. Loyalty is built over years, not over one season with a product. Loyalty is the Parsons, Kavejecz, Gofron and there boat sponsor. Loyalty is when a guy like Gofron turned down a bigger paycheck by another boat brand to stay with Lund. It's not about what you used before, it's about what's at hand now. Sponsors know that too. The only way guys on the big walleye circuits can effectively play the game, they have to have sponsor dollars. If a company is willing to spend the money for there services, I guarantee that pro will be with them.
Parsons and Kavejecz didn't get where there at now over night, that's for sure. Ask them, they'll tell you it's been a long hard road to where and what they have now!
Edited by Merckid 3/3/2008 12:45 PM
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | How? One has to start somewhere, and if one shows promise and 'gets it', I don't see why he/she is any different other than 'level' than an established Pro. Could be the next KVD.
So because Jordan is who he is, if he jumped ship that's 'different'? That's exactly the point I was making.
Pointer...
No.
They want the logo to be seen by potential clients in a positive manor...  | |
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Posts: 1270
| If you really want a sponsor then you should be able to show them how you will be able to give them a return on there investment of at least 10 to 1, 20 to 1 is even better. | |
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Posts: 317
| When I started on the PMTT, I wrote a letter seeking sponsors, and sent it to tackle manufactureres that I admire. I outlined my tournament accomplishments, my exposure on multi-media channels, my memberships in groups like Muskies Inc, and my desire to be a good product spokesman. I also let potential sponsors know that I would be available for propmotional engagements and shows. It worked. I got some tackle and rod manufacturers to sponsor me. For someone who is starting out, I was very pleased, and you know what? I work my ass off for them. I represent them on message boards, at the shows, and other promotions. I don't have sponsors that give me boats or cash, but I'm pleased.
The point is, you have to ask. You have nothing to lose.
Edited by MuskyStalker 3/3/2008 7:36 PM
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Posts: 618
Location: Bloomington, MN | MuskyTale Mike, unless the RV company is going to pick up the fuel bill running from Indiana to Wisconsin every other weekend, I would look for a less expensive lodging option. Launching a boat and to find a parking spot with an RV as tow vehicle on most of the WMT lakes would be tough. Good luck in your pursuit, and remember Virgil Ward had a successful TV show for years with Johnson Fishing reels and Beetle Spins as about his only sponsors.
Edited by Clark A 3/4/2008 7:23 AM
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| I can understand both sides. On one hand, there's a relationship that needs to be upheld between the guys in the boats and the guys in the offices. We can look at it in any number of ways but the bottom line to me is that the fisherman needs the sponsors a lot more than they need them. There are more fishermen than there are companies in the niche. For every Honda, Merc or Yamaha, there's twenty five Tom, Dick and Harry's. Many mice, only so much cheese. To be successful, just like worral says, you have to bring something of value to the party over the long(er) term. There are awful, awful outdoorsmen who make excellent frontmen/talking heads for products. There are also really great hunters and fishermen who are way too 'rough,' for lack of a better term. Being a good muskie fishermen and a good spokeman are NOT mutually exclusive. The guys on the fishing shows and commercials are great on camera first, and good fishermen second. I think to argue that is a little misguided. We all can put muskies in the boat at least enough times to fill a half hour tv slot...but can we do it in a way that helps the sponsors? When it comes to tournaments and getting sponsorship help, I don't think the only criteria is that you win every week, it's that you represent the company well while being seen, competing and doing the extras well. It is a game of relationships that are created to benefit both parties. If Yamaha has a better deal for you, and you can do something for Yamaha, you do it until Merc has a better option. This is the way it works. If I offered you $5 an hour to plow my driveway but the guy two doors down offered you $10, it'd be obvious who you'd sweat for. Where it gets a little goofy, I agree, is when Berkley lines are no longer in the picture, it's STREN who's really has the new magic. To a point, the flip-flopping does come off as a bit tacky. But you either play ball or ride the buses in the minors. At the end of the day, the choice is still yours. I think most people understand that fishing, like so many other things, has become a business where representation and positive endorsement is compensated. Put it next to pro boxing, MLB or other pass times and I'd say we're still awfully squaky clean and setting a followable example for kids. Personality as it relates to the public (POTENTIAL CONSUMERS) is one of the biggest things I think you need to turn a potential sponsor into 'your sponsor.' By and large, fishing gear is like pick-ups...I say Chev, you say Ford. They're both good trucks. Shimano's good, Okuma's good. It's how you fit into either one's plans and what you can do to stay in that picture. This week, Okuma has a better offer that you can hold up your end on, next week Shimano might. I can say that I've met very few pro guides and fishermen that weren't good guys to talk to. They all started out like you or I, and I think the best ones vividly remember riding the buses in the minors and how fortunate they've been. | |
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I'm not going to name any names, because I'm just trying to make a point, not critisize anyone in particular.
I have seen on more than one occasion, a TV personality or guide on internet boards claim that their particular brand is the best ever, only to find out the next brand they have the next season is the best ever, etc., etc.
To me that is being bought and sold by whomever they can find.
I understand the process of sponsorship, and the business end of it, but I find it pretty hard to care what sponsored fishermen are using based on those observations.
John
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Posts: 1270
| The one I like is that is sponsored by XYZ reel company yet when you see pictures of him he always has a different brand of reel in his boat! | |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Promoting is a portion of an overall 'job'. Making sure that promotion is done well and correctly is up to the Sponsor and Pro working together. It can be done well, not very well, or poorly, and the Pro and sponsor's image will reflect same.
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| i think a good lesson that anyone could learn from Mike Iaconelli's well-documented issues in the bass world is that it's very very important to carefully represent your sponsor's in a positive way at all times. put on a good public face, and it's always best to bring product issues to the sponsor in private, not to air them in public.
very very few people are in demand enough to be able to pitch a fit like the "screaming, yelling, hollering, dancing angler" over a product's performance and then get picked up by someone else. other companies pay attention and if you're looking for a sponsor, your reputation will preceed you.
in the muskie world, it's even less likely because there's nobody winning the amount of money, nobody being watched by millions of people on TV the way a couple of the top bass guys are doing such that they can "hop" after dogging a sponsor.
notably, the things people write on the internet are a big part of their reputation: so-and-so may not be your sponsor today, but what you say today about them will very easily impact whether or not they'll be interested in you tomorrow. some people don't care about that, preferring to "say what i think", and that's perfectly fine as long as they understand it may mean sacrificing potential sponsors down the road. it's not "right" or "wrong" to approach voicing your opinion in public one way or the other, it's just good to understand the costs and benefits and what it might potentially mean to you. running a website like this gives us a unique perspective because we get to see who is watching. it might surprise you!
nobody's getting rich off of sponsors...that's laughable. what's a couple extra baits each year? it's very nice, but it ain't gonna put any food on the table. boats? trucks? they're still getting paid for; maybe at a somewhat reduced rate, but realistically getting this kind of stuff for free is just plain nonsense. some people get a discount, and they've got to work for it. (work = pay) doing so in a positive manner is just part of the job description.
a creative approach such as your idea about approaching an RV dealer is a good one...what's the upside to the dealer? advertising the utility of RVs to a group of fishermen who do a lot of traveling. it's a good match, imho, so emphasize what you'll do for them from an advertising angle at every tourney stop.
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| Exactly lambeau. Many, many more mice than cheese. If fishermen think for one second that sponsors need them more than they need a sponsor, I think they're sadly mistaken. Iacconelli (sp?) was a super example of companies trying for that generation X 'too rad for mom and dad' market segment. His act wore thin pretty quick, I think acts like that have a short life span. Rapala has a similar target in mind when they put the tatooted guy with the DJ scratching moshing mid-cast selling X-Raps in that one spot. They are trying for another segment of buyers. I personally found Iaconneli's 'shock' tactics an insult to the intelligence of most would-be consumers. Talk about reaching for the lowest common denominator in a race to the bottom. I have noting against tatoos, dj scratching, moshing or bowling shirts with flames emroidered on them, it's just funny watching companies try to reach new buyers and how they think they have to do it. | |
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Posts: 3867
| Very interesting discussion. I appreciate the civility as folks debate and discuss the subject. | |
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| Along with fishing tackle manufacturers look outside the fishing world for sponsors. I obtained a MAJOR sponsorship for the PMTT from a company that has nothing to do with fishing. The B.A.S.S. guys get it - you see all kinds of product logos that have little or nothing to do with bass fishing. I think the key is exposure. The PMTT gets some T.V. exposure on Keyes Outdoors as well as through M.H. magazine. You need to conduct yourself in a professional manner on and off the water at all times. But go after sponsors that are out of the tackle box. Use your connections. If you know someone that owns a restaurant or a building contractor for example - hit them up. You won't get anything if you don't approach them. | |
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Posts: 314
Location: Bristol, IN | Thank you to all for your input pertaining to this subject. The main thing is to be professional and to also be a professional representing their product or service. Obviously the first year is most generally the toughest, after the initial year there will be more to offer to a potential sponsor. My boat partner and I want to convey a professional approach inside and outside the WMT. Again, thank you to all!!! | |
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Posts: 72
| Very interesting topic. What has opened lots of doors for us is the fact that we are a husband/wife team. | |
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Posts: 1529
| the part that kills me. i sponsor a few. the bites hot, but the charter capt does not want others to know, that the color or size is working.. eveything is a secret till thing eventually slip out. . are you one of these folks.. this creates tremors for bait manufacturers | |
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Posts: 1247
Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | Starting out getting Sponser's can be very tough in todays tight econemy.Starting out working on a major fishing & hunting store is the best route. From the fishing & hunting store there are possabilities of rod,reel,line etc. sponcership through many different tackle mfg.. But even this route will not start you out with getting free product,just a discount off the retail price.Then to keep that discount from year to year you will need to promote and prove you promoted and help ed sell thier product. From there you can get to other levels over time,including free product.But to jump right to a full cash sponcership for tournament entree fees etc.,you most likely will never get there without starting at the bottom and working up. I have sponsered some products for over 20 years to get what I recieve each year in product.They also do look at your other sponcers and how long you have been with them.Loyality is a big part of it all,you have to use,promote and sell,they are looking for what you can do for them,not what they can do for you.Most MFG in the Fishing Industrey have been cutting back on the number of Pro Staff they have,the fishermen that stay on are the ones that are working to keep their sponcers profitable. | |
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Sponsor's or not? How to get someone to commit.