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Posts: 380
Location: Michigan | This past season a couple buddies and I were out trolling around and we got on the topic of working within the muskie fishing world. We bounced around the possibilities of being able to tie your passion in to your work and maximizing your income. Of course, there are lots of intangibles, like possibly working on a lake all day, or living in the bush away from the craziness of modern urban life, and those have great value. But just looking at the money side of things, what areas of the business offer the highest income earning potential?
There are also product endorsements, special discounts, free travel, and other freebies, which all have value. These could be considered in the total package... We are talking cash in your pocket - W2 Taxable income...
I actually like the separation between my work and my fishing because it allows me to actually completely escape from work or other life issues when I want/need to. However, it is fun to think about what it would be like to work within the world that is your passion.
Edited by Chadster 2/6/2008 7:16 AM
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Posts: 1916
Location: Greenfield, WI | A six figure income is very possible if you bring 5 figures with you!
It is possible, but not likely. You would need all aspects to be covered: TV; speaking circuit; the individual would need to be marketable personally; baits/equipment; and some venue to become noteworthy on your own merits such as catching a monster fish or better yet multiple monster fish and be able to get the information out the masses.
This doesn't acknowledge all the years of trying to make ends meet financially, struggling to obtain meaningful financial sponsorship, and hundreds of thousands of miles on the road.
It is a concept that daydreams are made of, but the likelihood of any one individual obtaining 6 figures is remote.
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | Right on Steve.
Six figures is possible, but very unlikely. A few guys that are so called "muskie" guys that are making good money have turned multi-species for that very reason.
Although it is growing, the muskie industry is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall fishing industry, not much big money available.
JS | |
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Posts: 7037
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | "There are also product endorsements, special discounts, free travel, and other freebies, which all have value."
There are maybe 3 guys in the muskie world that get those things. And, in the end, freebies, special discounts and free travel aren't money in your pocket. They're just things you don't have to spend money. My honest thought on the subject is that if you guided full time, had full sponsorship, and held down another job to fill your non-filled days (while also getting health insurance through that company) you MIGHT pull in $60K. Which might sound like a great deal to some poeple out there, but remember a few things about being a full-time pro:
-you have to have two residences so you can guide up north in the warmer times, and down south in the winter. hard to own a home, pay a mortgage, AND have to be double paying for that place during the season that you're away. unless you're staying with a friend/family member or splitting a small place with a big group of guys, you're shoveling out $$$ for this, too.
-if you're guiding full-time, that means you're not fishing a ton of tournies, therefore take away the idea of $$$ from that. you might fish a few, but unless you win more than you even place 4-10th, you're probably losing money on entry fees, lodging, travel, food, etc.
-you work everyday. you fish when you dont want to, travel places you probably wouldnt go (shows, seminars, etc.) otherwise, and you dont get any paid vacation days or paid sick days.
-forget about 401K
-not much of a family life available here. long hours on the lake, time away in your other seasonal spot (unless they come with - ie. add on more $$$)
Another thought here: "special promotions" or "sponsorships" don't mean boxes and boxes of free stuff. Maybe some lures here and there, but lures aren't the big expense, rods, reels, boats, motors, electronics, trolling motors are. If you get half price on a reel then yay, you save maybe $70, but you might still be shelling out $50-100 per reel. If you guide full time, you better have more than 10 of those ready at any time. When gear goes bad, you need backups, and in some cases, guides might need backups for their backups. Spending less on gear is good, but when you have to be buying a ton, and replacing alot of what breaks, you're still putting money out.
It's a dream for many, but it's not a life that many would ever really want to live. | |
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Posts: 663
| Start with a 7 figure income and you'll get down to 6 in no time! Sorry I couldn't resist. | |
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Posts: 2089
| "How does a Muskie fisherman/woman become a millionaire?" "They start with 2".
"I had a million dollars but I...... spent it all" - Sublime | |
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Posts: 8772
| HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAH... *whew* | |
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Posts: 814
| I think it's very possible.....Maina,Bucher there's 2 tackle company's that I know pulled 6 digits when they were running them. now musky mayhem I won't even go there....keeping it real. | |
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Posts: 90
Location: ne53 | If we put the passion, efforts, and persistance into our jobs that we do muskie fishing we all would be making 6 figures. | |
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| Anyone ever see the place Rollie and Helen built? They went through some tough times, but things worked out pretty well in the end. | |
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Posts: 785
| I wouldn't be suprised if Bob Mehsikomer, Al Linder, and possibly even Jim Saric make 6 figures. However the odds are very low for most "good" musky fishers | |
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| Saric holds down a full-time job, in addition to his show and magazine. I'm guessing he doesn't do that because he wouldnt rather JUST make six figs from fishing stuff. But who knows. | |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Al isn't a 'Muskie' guy. He's a media personality--co-founder of In Fisherman--and multi-specie all the way. Magazine, TV, the PWT, etc....and they had some really tough times too. Worked out well for him in the long run, but believe me they crew at In Fish was short of 6 figure income averages many years; and in my opinion, they were the best of the best at the time.
And I might point out that selling a business for a good profit doesn't equate to pulling in 6 figures a year during one's career.
Bob M hasn't pulled a six figure a year income from his work yet, I don't think. | |
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Posts: 380
Location: Michigan | Maroon - 2/6/2008 11:19 AM
Saric holds down a full-time job, in addition to his show and magazine. I'm guessing he doesn't do that because he wouldnt rather JUST make six figs from fishing stuff. But who knows.
Seriously? Sounds like two or three full time jobs...
I wanted to name names, and reference businesses in my initial post, but I don't want to personalize this and get in to anyone's specific financial affairs.
It does seem like the very best in the business whether you are a TV personality, Lodge owner, retailer, bait manufacturer would have hte ability to pullin the big dough... More likely is someone who is doing it all i.e. tackle company, TV, guide, seminars, writing, major sponsors, etc.
I figured I would get a lot of "just fish" responses, and now Hahahahaha's, and I know not many people can truly hit six figures in this business alone. It is fun to talk about it and see what people feel is the most probable field where the money can be made... | |
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| If you want to work in the musky world anything is possible. But forget fishing cause you will have to dedicate yourself to work to make the money. I use to work in the sking industry and when the snow comes, guess what you are selling equipment and service. | |
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Posts: 8772
| jpine - 2/6/2008 9:38 AM
If we put the passion, efforts, and persistance into our jobs that we do muskie fishing we all would be making 6 figures.
Ain't that the truth!
But 6 figure jobs usually come with the kind of hours that prevent you from being able to fish. A nice Ranger and a place on a muskie lake won't do you any good when all you do is work. | |
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Posts: 119
Location: Waterford & Boulder Junction | I heard it from the horses mouth one night at the Heart II. Rollie and Helens produces 6 figure income plus a few multipliers. | |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | We're talking about taxable personal income form a business or venture for the businessperson/muskie person, not gross, right? | |
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| I'm guessing that the top three or four that have already been mentioned, Mania Mesikomer, Bucher, have spiked into that neighborhood with different deals and what not, but sustaining it over several years or a career is another thing. Now the Linders, R&H, Jeff Arnold, and a few others who aren't in truly pure muskie positions see that kind of coin. Like several have already said if 6 figures is your goal in the Muskie industry then you either need a considerable amount of capital to start a multi-tiered business that can sustain that sort of revenue, or you need to dedicate your life to the work and forget about time on the water. Just my opinion of course, but there are #*^@ few who've "Succeeded" to near that level in the muskie biz, and plenty have tried. | |
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Posts: 2865
Location: Brookfield, WI | I heard there was a ton of money in muskie message board moderating? I bet there's something to be said for the intoxicating power that goes with the job, too.
Kevin
I'm suffering from shoveler's shoulder. | |
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Posts: 7037
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | A ton would not describe the size of the income me and Lambeau get from MuskieFIRST. Think bigger and bigger than that! | |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Hey Kevin, 50 cents IS 50 cents... | |
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Posts: 2865
Location: Brookfield, WI | sworrall - 2/6/2008 5:20 PM
Hey Kevin, 50 cents IS 50 cents...
Like my Old Man was wont to say, "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye."
Kevin
Shoveler's shoulders. | |
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Posts: 380
Location: Michigan | sworrall - 2/6/2008 5:37 PM
We're talking about taxable personal income form a business or venture for the businessperson/muskie person, not gross, right?
I am talking individual gross personal income.
I don't know the specifics of any of the big businesses or "celebrities" out there, but hypothetically, lets talk about Drifter. Let’s say Drifter tackle is owned by one or a couple guys and all they do is make baits. With the volume of baits, and now multiple brands under Drifter, I would think a company of that size would yield revenues high enough to cover costs, marketing, advertising, labor, re-investment, product development in the company, etc., and still pay the owner(s) big bucks. I wouldn’t think there would be anybody with higher gross sales than Drifter since their acquisition of Musky Maina and ERC.
or
Lets say one of the best known lodges on LOTW or Eagle was the only business the owner(s) had. Can a lodge like that cover the costs, re-invest, and pay out big coin to the owner? I have done the math, and I have talked to a couple lodge owners for pike/walleye fishing lodges in Manitoba. Except for say Plumbers, Nueltin, Wolaston, etc, I can asure you those lodge owners are not making 6 figures before tax.
or
Lets take one of the popular Saturday morning TV muskie guys who is sponsored by say Gander, Bass Pro, or Cabelas, and Ranger, Mercury , Lowrance. He has a TV show, writes for magazines has frequent appearances on other TV programs, produces videos, has an affiliation with a bait company, provides tons of product endorsements, etc... This guy has got to be making 6 figures pre-tax, not including the freebies or discounts. And there has to be major tax write-offs as a guide, freelance writer, video producer, etc...
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| I wouldn't think a lure company owner could ever make 6 figures. If they sell a plastic bait in gander mountain for $12 40% is markup. Left with $8 profit minus all the taxes needed in selling. Then you add the huge costs of molds/paints/warehouse space and shipping.
Is this really possible? If a company sold 10,000 lures a year that would be $80,000 gross. Minus all the expenses and taxes and startup costs is it possible? | |
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | Well, I have sold lures for 2 years and really kicked it into high gear in 2007. No lie, in 2007 I made $40k in sales and I had $80k in costs. Hence a -$40k loss. I do have a decent income from my day job and this and some small loans funded my "entry" as a small sized lure company in 2006. To add, my lures are unknown. So, let’s say I had well known and brand recognized set of lures…. I assume my revenue would have been 2x or so higher and I would have made $0-$20k. That is IF my lures were branded and known. But if you want that you need expensive advertising and marketing and then you can remove some of that extra money you just made from your branded/well known lures. I must admit it is not exactly what I expected. Happy to save people money though LOL
James
PS-My fishing hours took a big hit in 2007 as my lures took the majority of free time. If you like to fish don't start a lure company....
Edited by tacklebooty 2/6/2008 7:13 PM
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Posts: 92
Location: chicago | I own a very popular restaurant in Chicago's south burbs. I started out with no money and built a very nice business in 3 years. However I am still yet to take a dime. It takes roughly 5 years in retail to see any return. Not to metion I work all the time.And once you leave the products and services change. Nobody runs your business like yourself. You have to sacrafice to see reward. But it is not always about the money. I still take part in all the food I serve and its a reward in itself. You think these bait co. are happy when a record fish is caught using there bait. Then the money will come. Money or big fish!!! I would take the pride that my lures catch the biggest fish!!! | |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'Lets take one of the popular Saturday morning TV muskie guys who is sponsored by say Gander, Bass Pro, or Cabelas, and Ranger, Mercury , Lowrance. He has a TV show, writes for magazines has frequent appearances on other TV programs, produces videos, has an affiliation with a bait company, provides tons of product endorsements, etc... This guy has got to be making 6 figures pre-tax, not including the freebies or discounts. And there has to be major tax write-offs as a guide, freelance writer, video producer, etc.'
He has a TV show...
And has to buy the air time at a couple grand a pop or more for a decent time slot on the cable channe he hopes you are watching, has to travel to, shoot, edit, produce, and get the episodes in the can AHEAD of airing and if he wants the big bucks the show had better be professionally done. Hire a professional cameraman for a week, once, and don't forget to pay him/her..... Watch the credits after one of those Shows...that'll tell you what kind of budget the guy is working on.
He writes for magazines.
Average pay per article is a couple hundred bucks or less. He better write ALOT, and not use a ghost writer, like so many of the fishing pros.
Sponsorships pay the way to get out in the public and fish competitively, and are the engine for 'making big money', not the source. One has to be already 'out there' to win a large sponsorship contract, and that takes a considerable investment.
A fellow with a TV show can get $100K in total sponsorship and it'll be scarce after airing his show if it isn't shot in the neighborhood by Uncle Bernie using a $700 mini DV camera and edited and produced by a friend.We all gotta start somewhere, but it takes a big personal investment in time, dollars, and enegry to even try to start. If the show looks like 'Gold fever', that 100K will dry up fast because the ratings will stink.
To last, the show had better be professionally done. That's what he's getting paid for, so he has to produce.
There's a brass ring out there and the Weekend 'Bass' shows us how to get there, but this business has some growing to do before it becomes very common.
How many viewers are tuned in? NOT available households or any other hokum...how many are TUNED IN to that program? How many magazine subscriptions are sold BEFORE the 'Tears' (AS IN RIP)?
I bet alot of them wish they WERE making a six figure income in the Muskie business.
The Walleye angling business is quite a bit bigger, and darned few are even making a real living at it.
Bass is even larger, and a handfull are making a really good living.
Most competitive anglers have another business or 'real job' that supports the angling career. Hard fact. It's a tough time holding onto contracts from year to year; example...remember a sausage company sponsoring competitive angling and a TV show or three last year? New ad agency, and POOF...gone from the business. A major boat builder sponsoring a dozen or more top tier Walleye pros...POOF, dropped them all leaving them all in search of a ride the next year. Another..a big glass boat builder...POOF...dropped all but a couple and left them all looking for a ride THIS year.....
Bottom line, if someone makes a six figure living fresh water sport fishing they #*^@ed well earned it and prove beyond a doubt they are business savvy first, and fishing savvy second.
Outboard and boat companies don't write big checks to very many anglers to run their products. Those who do have decent contracts have to perform duties to contract, and earn every penny being on the road and never home during the entire open water season.
The VAST number of Pro shirts you see out there bought that boat and motor at a discount MAYBE with a delayed billing, and that's that. | |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | I guess I'm a well know guide who does a little speaking, writing, and TV and video stuff.
Unless you have your own TV Show you usually don't get a penny for what you do on the show, same with the videos. I usually get a free DVD and that's it.
Payment for speaking at most shows is usually around $300.00, and mostly less.
An article in most magazines pays you around some where around $250.00 or less.
I guide around 100 days a year, and after I get done with expenses I'm lucky to make a profit, some years I do, some years I don't, depends how many times I have to rebuild my outboard or replace my electronics. I don't even want to talk about the year I have to replace my boat. It's not the money maker everyone thinks it is. If you are with one the the big boat manufactures programs you can probably break even most years if you can find a buyer for your $40.000 year old rig. Biggest reason I do it is to be able to fish almost every day.
I get some stuff free, lures mostly, a new net occasionally, a few rods and reels all of which I greatly appreciate. I'm able to get a few things at whole sale prices and that helps. So far no one has sent me a check of any sort for any reason. I still have to pay for my boats and motors, and most of the other things that I need, perhaps at a slightly reduced price, but I still pay for them. When most muskie guides talk about sponsors that means that got a free lure, or a net, or a rod and reel, or a reduced price, but not money!
There may be a few businesses that make good money in the muskie fishing industry, (top retail businesses, top TV Guys, maybe the top Magazine Guys, a few lure manufactures, but I'll bet most of them are more spread out than just muskies). I doubt that any of the tournament guys make much except the winner, and that probably only happens once in a life time. I know a lots of folks in the industry, and I don't think anyone is making a tremendous amount of bucks.
The best way to make a 6-figure income fishing muskies is to have a couple of million in CD's at 5%.
Doug Johnson | |
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Posts: 380
Location: Michigan | Thanks to those who have provided first hand "real" information i.e. Doug, Steve, etc. As I mentioned before, this is just "talk", but it is fun to dream... | |
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| I own a muskie business and have a full time job.
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | As a guy who makes lures for a living...put it this way, I can't afford to buy my OWN baits!!! lol  | |
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | I have a musky business and a good full time job. That being said, I think it's very possible to make a great living but like any business you would have to make a whole bunch of good decisions and hope this is combined with a good bit of luck.
Jed V.
Edited by RiverMan 2/7/2008 11:52 PM
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Posts: 2378
| I also have a Muskie business and a pretty good full time job. I don't foresee my Muskie business being able to even match the income from my real job, much less surpass 6 figures | |
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Is a six figure income possible within the muskie fishing world?