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Posts: 71
| when doing the figure eight when is the best time to figure eight the bait very fast with quick turns???and when is the best time to figure slow and lazy with extremely slow turns???ive heard that there is certain times when it is better to figure fast to get the fish to turn on the bait.but then ive also heard that at times its better to figure eight very slowly.and also how deep should i have the rod tip in the water???and how much line should i have out from the tip of the rod to my lure in order to not spook the fish???
Edited by musky12 2/1/2008 11:18 AM
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Posts: 2024
| Scrap the "time of year" mentality. Focus on the fish's mood. If the fish is RIGHT behind your bait going into the 8 hit him with some SPEED. If it's a little further back, slow it down and maybe go deep. There is no one formula for doing a figure 8. You have to let the fish tell you what to do when. With experience it will get easier. You should have about 18" from rod tip to lure, or something in that ball park. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Bury the rod in the water up to the cork.. deep is good.
Ya, if the fish is "hot" speed it up, and ALWAYS on every cast, do the 8 for sure.
Jerome |
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Posts: 462
Location: Madison Wi. Chain | just learn to do a good figure 8 every cast. You can make adjustments once you have learned how to make a good figure 8 every time. I have not heard anything about time of year and type of figure 8. BG |
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Posts: 71
| so i should figure 8 every cast even if i dont see a fish attack or follow?would it be wierd if i figure eight topwaters? |
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Posts: 8821
| Man, what a question... It took me three years to catch a fish on a figure 8, and I had all those same questions, drove myself nuts over it. Last year most of my fish were caught on the 8. What changed? I stopped worrying about what to do, and just did it. What I mean is this: Do a figure 8, and make it a big one. Forget the how far how fast what time of year is it crap, it did me no good at all. Probably fried 10,000 brain cells thinking about it, all I got was a headache, and lost a bunch of fish because I was so worked up over making sure I did everything perfect during my 8 I forgot to watch the stupid fish...
So there's my advice: chill out. watch the fish. Sooner or later you'll get one to eat on the 8. Then another, and another, and another. I'm not a whiz at it or anything, but I believe what I am about to tell you:
The only way to learn a good figure 8 is to catch some fish on a figure 8.
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Posts: 93
Location: Minneapolis, MN | Figure 8 topwaters, yes. Drop 'em down. |
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Posts: 581
| I'd recommend that you check out a great article about the in's and out's of the figure 8 in one of the summer Musky Hunter magazines by Cory Painter. I think it was the July issue from this past summer. The article pulls together many of the concepts in a very straightforward, easy-to-apply manner. |
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| how much line should i have out from the tip of the rod to my lure in order to not spook the fish???
i've actually hit fish with my rod-tip before, obviously that doesn't help get them to eat, but i also don't worry about the rod tip spooking the fish away during the figure-8 process - particularly fish that are hot behind the lure. i reel up to the leader.
if you leave too much line out, the lure will cut the corners of your figure-8, removing the advantage of making big turns with your rod.
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Sometimes you won't see jack !,,, then all of a sudden there She is,, so yes ALWAYS do the 8 or at least a good circle or L..
And top water baits are the best to do the 8.... Scares the shnit out of you when they hit on top water while doing the 8. Very, very cool....
Get into this" habbit "on every cast to boat more fish thru the season.
Jerome |
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Posts: 431
| Somebody asked if they should do an 8 even if they don't see a follow. Absolutely. Do 1 or 2 turns to see what pops up. You'll be surprised at how many follows you don't see, unless you're in super clear water. As others have said, do a deep 8. The best tip I can give is keep mixing it up. Don't keep a constant speed and size of the turns. A lot of fish will hit when you give them an extra burst of speed. It took me a while to catch my first figure 8 musky, but I boated 3 over 40" last year on LOTW in one week on the figure 8. It's all about persistence and being ready. With topwaters, I have had success 8ing a topraider, but trying to 8 a bait like a jackpot is tough. |
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Posts: 313
Location: On your favorite spot | esox50 got it right, gotta follow the mood of the fish.
when i first started out, i had no clue how to do the 8. nothing helped me out more than seeing it done successfully by someone else!!!!!!!!
when in doubt, faster is usually better, don't give up right away if they disappear, don't be afraid to really slash that water with your rod either, sometimes it takes a quick hard jerk to wake them up. when that fish is HOT on the bait, she won't care about anything else.
i like to figure 8 my topwater on the surface, haven't had much luck sub-surface. check out Pearson's 'Muskies on the Shield' for some good surface bait action, he loses a big one a figure 8 on the surface.
finally, always think about how you're going to set the hook on the 8 when she does hit, if you don't plan a little bit, you're apt to end up with wet pants, a dropped jaw, and a really really sick feeling in the pit of your stomach |
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Posts: 97
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan | The mood of the fish is most important like everyone has said. There will be times when you can do everything wrong but the fish will still hit and there will be times when you do a perfect figure 8 and they wont hit. I do a big circle instead of an 8 because I can make much wider turns with the circle. I think this helps because sometimes while turning on a figure 8 you can take the bait away from the fish and turn the fish around too much. The biggest thing I noticed this last season that caught me more fish was to speed up and elevate the bait in the turn going away from the boat. The turn is still wide, but I speed the bait up and bring it up in the water column. I think this resembles a bait fish to them because when I see bait fish getting chased by a predator they always go near the surface and even jump out of the water trying to avoid the predator. Again, the fish's mood is the biggest thing but as a general rule I go high and fast when the bait is far away from the boat and deep and slower when close to the boat. Theres a segment from Linder's Angling Edge called 'Musky triggers' or something that gives a good demonstration of what I am talking about. |
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Posts: 431
| If you want a good figure 8 story, my dad raised a low 40s fish last year on a bucktail on some shallow rocks. It followed his 8 for a while before peeling off. I immediately cast a jake out, and it followed me in and followed my 8 for about 5 turns, but it was acting kind of weird, like it would lose the bait periodically and then come back. It peeled off and went back to the rocks. I cast back again with the jake and it followed again. It followed my jake for another 5 or 6 turns, acting weird again, before it finally nailed it. I brought it into the net and found out it only had ONE EYE. The other eye was completely closed up, almost like it had never had an eye. It couldn't see the bait when I was going a certain direction. It was really healthy, but kind of weird. |
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Posts: 1046
| Baits like a weagle/doc, hawgwobbler, creeper are most times a bust if you dont trigger the strike before the bait gets back to the boat. I do a short L and recast. On the other hand topraiders, globes, and those type baits are very conducive to figure 8`s and I have always had my best luck going subsurface. That 18" of line out rule works perfect, except for large billed cranks, I increase to about 3`-4` for the best in 8`ing. |
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | Thanks Matt for the plug...if anyone is interested in the article PM me and I can send you a PDF of the article.
Its NEVER too cold for speed....as a lot of folks have mentioned..the mood is critical.
However, I have seen lazy LATE fall muskies come unglued when speed in the 8 was added.
Cory |
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| just read the fish, it takes tons of encounters and follows to learn how to read a fish...never underestimate how fast a lazy fish can speed up on a bait..water temps do not factor into it..when they want to eat, they will eat.
be ready when the do. |
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Posts: 170
| Yep...Cory's article is a good one to read! The "only" time I have seen a "slower" approach work, is when a fish came up several times (must be using a slow rising bait) and she wouldn't go, until a stop and slow "death rise" of the suick/bobbie type bait was put in front of her...then she committed. Otherwise (as in 90%+) of the time, speed really seems to trip em. And yes, the attitude of the fish is crucial. If she's bumping her nose on the bait as you're appraoching the boat, and speed is added, just before the turn, you can almost bet she'll eat. Well over 50% of my fish caught last year came on an 8. |
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Posts: 2089
| I look at it like it's a game of "keep away" and I'm going to win. Speed Kills!!!!Lots of practice helps. Hone your skills and be perfect EVERY time. Boatside manner is a big part of the game. Never slow the bait down at boatside either. In the wild, think about what happens when the prey slows down when being pursued by a predator.....it's dead.If that bait slows down as it approaches the boat.....she's gone. Not giving the stupid fish intelligence, but I think they realize something's just not "right". I don't do a complete 8 on every cast either(unless I see a fish), but I teach clients what I call trigger points. There are 3 trigger points and if she doesn't commit(show herself) from those, then I'm casting for her sister. Boatside stuff is one of the most exciting aspects of muskie fishing, but it can also be the most frustrating. Keep practicing and have fun!! Steve |
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| lots of good info, but I can honestly say that the day I started speeding up my 8's in a way that was more of taking the bait away from the fish, my hookups went up.
I had what I thought was a lazy follow, 6' behind the bait and deep, but when I whipped into the 8, the fish launched itself toward the bait and I hooked up.
I don't think a lot of people give the fish their credit on how fast and explosive they could be. Slowing a lure down to match a slow moving fish has rarely worked for me, ripping it away has produced much better. |
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Posts: 170
| I think I read a statistic once that a muskie can go from 0-35 mph in like 6 or 8 feet. May not sound that fast, but that is some serious "acceleration"!! |
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Posts: 71
| thanx guys ill give all this information a try when the freakin ice goes away and i can fish for muskies.... |
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Posts: 59
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Cal taught me a trick that worked well for him, instead of increasing the speed or the lure on the inside corners and slow on the outside, do the opposite. It worked for me on Eagle they'd hit on the inside corner going slow. |
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| Figure eight fish just add to the mystery behind these fish. Like it was mentioned above, with what we would call a perfect 8 the fish looses interest and sinks but you can turn start an 8 after stopping, accidentally bang the rod against the side of the boat or make too tight a turn and have the fish hot and kill the lure. I had one follow me while I walked around the perimeter of my 14ft boat the whole way and back again over 50ft of follow then just sink away. Eights, like hooksets, are free. Do them. |
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| I always speed up right next to the boat on every cast, thatll trigger there attention useally..than just read the fish...in a matter of seconds youll be able to tell... |
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Posts: 313
Location: On your favorite spot | yeah, careful not to hit your rod on the boat, right Nick? |
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| Been there, done that...had a nice 4 footer chasing a bucktail around the 8 till i hit the boat than managed to hit the outboard....needless to say i lost sleep that night... |
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Posts: 94
| I'm new to this figure 8 thing, are there any good clips online that show closeups of the exact movements? I've found one, the one below, are there any other ones? And does it work with any kinds of lures such as spoons, crankbaits and jerkbaits too, or is it only for bucktails?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPsFfcsPKaM
Edited by Petey21 2/7/2008 7:56 AM
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Posts: 344
Location: Musky Country | High,slow, far out from the boat as possilable.
Fast, deep close to the boat.
Oval not eight that my 2 cents lol |
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Posts: 8821
| Best description I can come up with:
First off a figure 8 is a 3 dimensional activity...
1. As you are reeling in your bait, when its about 15 feet from the boat, swing your rod tip out to the side (your left if your reeling with your right hand) as a "prep" for the 8. This direction change will often trigger a following fish. Speed up your retrieve a bit here too.
2 As the lure approaches, gradually speed up more, and pull the bait left to right towards the center of your body, parallel to the boat.
3. Continue speeding up while bringing your arms closer to your body and pulling the bait towards you. This is one of the fastest points on the 8.
4. While doing this you will also naturally pull the bait down in the water. Don't be afraid to exaggerate this motion and put the rod way down in the water, but be careful not to whack the boat or the fish with your rod. (done both, usually scares 'em off) Also avoid making abrupt moves, bending over etc. This will also scare off quite a few fish. 4. is the deepest point of the 8.
5. When you reach the point where you almost can't go any further, bring the lure out and away from the boat. You will also bring the lure up in the water column. (Since your rod and arms are of a fixed length, You HAVE to or you'd fall in)
This is the start of what I call the "hot zone", where a lot of fish seem to eat, also known as "high and on the outside".
Some guys slow down here. In a way you kind of have to -- if you tried to speed up and/or go deep coming around the outside? *SPLASH* In 'ya go. At least I would, but I'm kinda clumsy. This turn, where the lure is near the surface, is the end of the critical zone. Not that they won't eat elsewhere on the 8, just that this seems like a favorite spot.
6. You're outta arms and rod length, gotta come back. This is the top part of the figure 8. From here you're just making the shape of an 8 as many times as it takes to get that fish to eat. The changes of speed and direction seem to be trigger points.
7. Speed up, go deep
8. Low point, some guys actually bury the rod in the water up to the reel.
Attachments
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 figure 8.JPG (18KB - 206 downloads)
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| I'm gonna disagee with EA, his slow down zones are wrong, speed up thru the upward motions and let the fish catch the bait on the turns after the speed up. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | if the bait disappears and you can't feel anything ... she ate the bait ... if you don't pin it to her ears you have a chance of seeing the bait again while the fish swims away ... lol
and on a 45 - 50 pounder if you miss a fish on a figure eight it could really make you say words you know are not appropriate here ... at least from what i saw ... lol |
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Posts: 8821
| Yo go ahead and do 'em backwards, then dawger. Let me know how you feel at the end of the day trying to speed up going away from the boat 
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| speed up on the turns going up and out away from the boat, then let the fish catch and eat. trust me it works.
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Posts: 1636
| If you think there is some special formula you should follow every single time....well, good luck dawger  Like so many people have said before, try and read the fish. If they all wanted the same presentation, it would be too easy. |
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| EA, when is that show airing? The show with my dad and I aired last weekend, it's so cool to watch and how those memories are brought back along with it. Can't wait till I get back up there again this August! |
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Posts: 59
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | forgot to login, last post was me.... |
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | EA....I have to agree with dawger...
in your pic where you have the "zone" that is where I am going out away from the boat....bait is at its deepest near the boat...I am going out towards the outside turn....I am adding major speed and raising it in the water column at this point. 90% of the fish will eat on that outside turn...because of speed and depth change.
If I was going to slow down...it will be as I come to the apex of that outside turn....speed will get them jazzed heading out away from the boat...a quick slow down at the apex away from the boat just under the surface will get you most of your strikes....
Cory |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | I also agree with Dawger and disagree with EA....but what do I know.....I probably only catch about 100 fish per year on the 8!!! LOL
DO NOT SLOW DOWN on the turns....that is the HOT spot, the SWEET spot...MAKE THAT FISH EAT.....
Also, I wouldn't recommend slowing down.....you want your bait to be going at least as fast as it was during the retrieve, not slower |
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| that wacky bulldawger knows his stuff!
keep that bait moving on the turns like others have said...
each fish IS different and it isn't easy but when you do it enough they almost do become predictable where you WILL get them to eat...
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Very true B-Rad...
Each fish is different, but after enough experience doing it, you should be able to tell if....the fish is simply going to follow and not eat...follow around 1 time then smoke it...smoke it on the first turn....follow around 5+ times then eat, etc.....
They are definately very predictable. |
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| at the Chicago show, in one of the seminars (i forget by who) he showed video where he got a fish to eat boatside by quickly moving the bucktail back and forth in a straight line. no big, wide turns. no depth changes. just ripping the bait quickly back and forth just below the surface side-to-side in a straight line maybe 3 feet long.
he suggested that the speed and commotion it was causing kept the fish hot, and you could see it circling around trying to set up on the bait before it finally ate.
i can't see myself trying that every time vs a standard figure-8, but it does show that sometimes a really hot fish just wants to grab the lure regardless of what you do as long as you don't stop it.
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| oh yah, there are those "suicidal" fish that no matter what you do wrong will eat, like say hooking them THREE times on the 8 and have them come back and eat it again... but in most cases they aren't suicidal and can become predictable how and where they eat....
reading the fishes mood and having 100's of fig 8 experiences will hone your skills more than reading a "how to" on the net...even by the best.... |
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | bn - 2/8/2008 7:44 AM
reading the fishes mood and having 100's of fig 8 experiences will hone your skills more than reading a "how to" on the net...even by the best....
But Brad, if we all had to wait til we had 100s of figure 8 experiences before our skills were honed enough to be qualified to answer a post on a message board, there would only be about 4 people posting here.
Personally, I find them to be a waste of time (I realize that I am in a minority in that regard and have learned to live with it just fine).
S. |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Moving your bait back and fourth....is a HUGE NO NO....I would never suggest it. And yes, there are fish that no matter what you do, you are going to catch it...but that is about 1 in 50.
And if you are finding that a figure 8 is a waste of time....you are doing it wrong.
Edited by MikeHulbert 2/8/2008 9:00 AM
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| And if you are finding that a figure 8 is a waste of time....you are doing it wrong.
he's fishing exclusively for tigers out West, Mike...they don't follow very much, and they tend to dart away near the boat more like pike.
i've seen him figure 8 for trues, and he does just fine.
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | MikeHulbert - 2/8/2008 7:58 AM
And if you are finding that a figure 8 is a waste of time....you are doing it wrong.
That may very well be, but I've been fishing these cursed tigers for about 10 years now. I have exactly 6 on the first turn of the L, and one on the 8. If I have to get 100 of them to eat on the 8 before I can consider myself proficient, I'll be pushing daisies before I get my 4th one...I'll spend the rest of my time casting I think.
S. |
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Cory has it nailed if anyplace to slow down entering the outside turn just as you add that burst of speed to make the escape down the straight away. Some other things to take into consideration is the bait being worked, I do some different things with dawgs, the bucktails.
Anyone remember Pearson strike while the Jackpot just sat there motionless.
I agree with you sorno tigers just don't follow and commit to much in the metro either. They will usually flash off, no succes on them in the 8's. It is either they eat of play a little mind game.
Troyz
PS It is all about the setup on your baits as you entering the corner. |
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Posts: 8821
| Zo, I'm not sure. Last time I talked to Travis, he was still going through all the footage from last year. He said Mickey got some really cool stuff, though. I can't wait to see it, espeically since my camera died and I only got a couple pictures the whole week!
Man its too bad they didn't stick around another day to get your big one on film, that would have been cool to see!
Oh well, maybe next year... |
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| having 100's of fig 8 experiences will hone your skills more than reading a "how to" on the net...even by the best...
true enough.
at the same time, reading about how to do something is a good place to start. discussions such as this one, or articles such as Cory's are helpful to get all of us thinking about how to do something right, so that we can then go out and practice it on the water.
if you never talk/write/think about it first, or if you think you've got it mastered, you might not try do something different/better once you're on the water.
I do some different things with dawgs, the bucktails.
such as...???
PS It is all about the setup on your baits as you entering the corner.
such as...???
come on now, Troy!
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | for what it's worth i focus on the angle i'm coming in at and wand a first move to keep the fish straight coming into the first turn (which would be at an angle to the boat so she doesn't have to make a short turn before the first big wide one) ... then come down and deeper and as bn and hulbert mention the first turn coming back up and around i'm trying to go at top speed expecting the fish's best time to take a shot is at that accelleration point coming out of the first turn while she's also moving back up ... the entry and speed with a long wide turn gives her body a chance to be in the position they love to eat .... where i've screwed up has been the visual of a big fish sucking the bait in and not noticing it disappearing soon enough ... also learned (yes, from b-rad, cochran and cal ritchie) that big ovals work best and are easiest with long rods ... but for sure to accellerate through those turns big-time. i figured in-boat lessons from those guys were worth taking to heart and they all know i've screwed some up but learned to pin a fish.
by the way ... got to see Cal Ritchie catch a fish boatside last year and it was awesome ... what a great lesson. he moved so quick like a cat and that turn was over before i knew it happened ... time for the net like right now!!!! ... learned quickly too that if you can't get a fish to eat at the boat on eagle you might as well stay home ... lol
the dawger, corey, mike are providing some good advice here for lots to benefit from yet it becomes an argument (you're allowed to delete that if you want) ... to me it's good of them to provide the counter from experience and it doesn't bother me at all.
who is this dawger guy anyway?! ... i wanna fish with him someday. bet i could steal an 8-fish from him too eh b-rad?
Edited by jonnysled 2/8/2008 10:47 AM
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| fish stealer Sled!
guess that one didn't like my 8 and liked yours better...stealer!
so many ways to work a fish on the 8 and it's just plain fun to get them to eat at your feet as HTrain would say...
Is it May yet? |
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Posts: 8821
| Maybe I'm not understanding something, but if you speed up on the turns how does that leave you anything to do on the straightaway? As I come around the outside, setting up to pull the bait back towards me, that's where I'm getting ready to really rip that bait as fast as I can, on the long straight part of the 8. Are you guys actually going slower pulling the bait towards you?
Cory and Troy, I think we're actually doing the same thing and I'm not explaining it right...
That diagram shows what I do with the rod, not what the lure is doing a foot and a half behind that.
Make sense? |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | some talk about working different baits ... i think it was a badfish video but there's a segment with greg thomas and a prop top working a fish on the top when it comes to the boat ... that one made me think twice about what to do in that situation ... staying on top is something to think about ... if she doesn't eat then give it a few minutes and throw the weagle at her.
we should start another thread for guys to share how the send out their second and third offerings after a fish comes in on x, y or z ... that is also a process that some do really well. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | from your diagram ... i'd start coming in from your first line drawn to be from the left and straight into the first turn and not with another short turn going in ... she's following ... right ... get her down and juiced going into your first turn and when it "changes direction" going faster coming up and out... she's got to make a decision (or a natural response) ... which is usually to eat ... slow turns will generate more nips than eats ... IMO
corey ... publish your article ... lol
Edited by jonnysled 2/8/2008 10:45 AM
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Mike, Its all Jedi mind games
Something I learned from Herbie several years with spinner bait is on very slow presentation, is keeping dawg deep till last 10 feet and speeding the bait to get it coming up at a pretty steep angle and the picking up speed into the first turn. Another thing with dawgs or other baits is on slow follow that gets behind on 8' is speed up and bring bait back crossing the fishes face for head on colllition. To me following fish is just watching and waiting for something to happen change in depth, speed and directions are just trigging tools to get a fish to commit, and some will just follow.
As the setup, that is a nascar reference(cars that don't handle in the corners won't win any one can run fast down the straight away), I pay close attention to baits and the one that don't 8 good keep getting tuned or to the penalty box, for example a dawgs that rolls in the corner keeps getting tweaked till I am happy, or wall shame.
Troyz |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Also always turn AWAY from the boat NOT towards the boat. I see this way to many times. Always go AWAY from the boat. |
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Posts: 156
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Don't do jumping jacks in the boat if a fish is behind your bait! There is a science to the eight, oval, circle, around the entire boat. In canada I had a fish behind my bait surpassing 5 minutes!! Never took it!! Has to do with the mood of the fish.
Edited by needa70lber 2/8/2008 6:11 PM
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Posts: 3907
| A couple tips from humble me..........
I also have had seasons when about 1/3 of boated fish came on the 8. I'm a believer.
I ALWAYS place a small Bucher Super Splitring between my leader swivel and my line; I tie to the splitring. Why? Because the ring will not enter the top eye of the rod, but a smaller swivel will. If you hook a big fish with your swivel already inside the top ring the swivel will likely hang up on the top eye and prevent your drag system from feeding the green fish the line it needs to move away from the boat. Break your rod, break the line, lose the fish.
The splitring strategy means less work on your part. Day or night, you know when the bait is approaching the boat and so you know when to begin to drop the rod tip in the water. I finish reeling the last 1-2 feet of line with my rod descending into the water and I'm already beginning my 8 as that split ring hits the top eye. I don't have to strain my eyes during the day; and I don't have to even see the bait day or night.
I tried the "glow bead" tip, placing a glowie bead on your line so you can see it coming at you in the dark. I've also heard of folks painting a glow spot on the lure to see it coming in so they know when to go into the 8. But with the splitring trick, I don't have to see ANYTHING, day or night, I always go into the 8 just right.
I want to emphasize that any technique that reduces eye strain and muscle fatigue means I am both 1) more alert and 2) quicker to respond to a fish. This means a lot on those days/nights when I do a 12-16 hour marathon.
ps - To eliminate the risk of hitting the boat with my rod as I'm doing an 8, I've placed a strip of that foam water pipe insulation on the gunnels on both sides of the boat. Bumping the boat metal with my rod absolutly spooks fish away, but bumping that foam is pretty much silent and the fish stays with the bait.
Edited by Ranger 2/9/2008 6:03 PM
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | One of the biggest things is to learn how to see fish in the water. The futher away from the boat you can see the fish the better chance you will have of catching it. Watch your lure and and couple of feet behind it like a hawk, never take your eye's off that area during the retrieve.
Like good deer hunters, with experience you can see fish that others can't. It pays to learn what to look for!
Seeing the fish before it's at boatside is a very big part of a successful figure-8!
Doug Johnson |
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Posts: 71
| not sure if it was mentioned in one of the posts but ive heard of people figure 8ing on the surface with like topraiders and propeller baits.is this true should i 8 on the suface sometimes???i think even though its a topwaters it should still be 8 under the water.
and what is the absolute best depth for the bait to be during the 8?if im correct on musky hunter they just have it not much more than a foot or so below the water and the bait was in full visibility the whole time untill ofcourse he seen a fish then that rod was in the water deep.i think the bait should be under the water atleast so you can see it unless the fish is trying to snak on it. |
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Posts: 32919
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | All things considered, I agree with Doug. |
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| I cnat offer any advice better than the mush more experienced pros that have answered. But I can relate an eye opening testament to watching the fish and adjusting to her mood.
I was working a midlake hump and raised a mid 40's fish on a DDD. I was working the bait eratically, plenty of pauses, jerks etc.
Fish came in hot behind the lure. I hit the figure 8 fast and wide and she immediately sunk out of sight.
I thought for sure she was going to convert, so I said WTF and unitentionally froze the bait in the water. There she was 1" behind it flaring her gills. Started the 8 again, away she went. Every time I got erratic or paused she reappeared.
I was fascinated and tried all kinds of different stuff. I stopped worrying about converting her and started to experiement.
Went around 22 times with her following or watching. Did all kinds of crazy crap. Finally took her so close to the surface she saw me up close, thought I was too ugly, and headed on her merry way.
Very enlightening experience.
I learned a lot, and it has made a difference. Take what you want from it.
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Posts: 46
| MY FIRST MUSKY WAS CAUGHT DOING A EIGHT WITH A KICKEN MINNOW I NEVER SAW HER. I DID THE EIGHT ON MY FIRST CAST I WAS SEEING HOW THE BAIT WAS RUNNING ON THE EIGHT AND SHE HIT FROM UNDER THE BOAT FIRST THING IN THE MORNING WOKE ME UP.... DIDNT NEED MY CUP OF JOE THAT MORNING.. |
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Posts: 159
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Musky 12, we got a few muskies 8ing on the surface with surface baits this year, but that was only because it was a kid's first figure 8 and i was teaching them how to do it. It was also in the dark in water that was so murky a guy can't see a foot down even in the daytime. I wouldn't recommend a topwater 8 ever, and would say go deeper than a foot below. Even topwaters are more presentable at boatside 4 feet under. I think they do that on musky hunter for the camera, but i real life there's a better chance of holding a musky in your hands if you're 4ft under, even if you get a closer look at her by 8ing 1 foot down. |
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Posts: 71
| sorry to bring this thread back but.......12gauge,
Why "in your opinion" do you think you should figure 8 all baits under the surface apposed to some above the surface? |
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Posts: 95
Location: LOTW every chance I get | Can't add much to the discussion regarding the technique of the figure eight, other than do it every time and make it automatic. However, like Marc J I want to stress the importance of planning how you are going to set the hook and to be ready to pull the trigger when she eats. I lost a heartbreaker at Minaki last fall when I executed a perfect set of eights and got her to eat, and then promptly pulled the hook out of her mouth. (set the rod INTO THE FISH, darnit!) I still shake my head at that one. Dave |
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| If you were to find Weston's video, you'll see how he makes wide turns, goes deep on the inside, comes high on the outside!!!!
Hope this helps.... |
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Posts: 71
| ok let me ask one more question what is the proper way to set the hook when that fish goes around and finally inhales the bait????jerk the rod tip up???jerk it to the right???jerk it to the left???what do you guys do??? |
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| I had one about 40 inches go around for five minutes in about four feet of water on a Bobbie two or three years ago. She would disapear, come back, disapear, come back. I saw her about ten feet past the bow and tried running the jerkbait straight at her face, that's what got her to bite. I guess it was 'either I get outta this little orange thing's way or hammer it.' Ones that come up blindly from straight under the boat or in the dark are lowest %age for me for exactly the same reason as dougj mentioned already, they show up so fast and you can't watch them coming in to get ready, adjust or plan anything. The tips already given about changing depth and speed at certain points are good. I draw a series of big rectangles beside the boat as much as any other shape or pattern, sometimes cutting across the box can work, the longer the rod, the better, for sure. With creepers and other surface baits I will walk them around the bow a ways. Best lure IMO is the Beleiver on top, bring it from that super loud surface action to pounding crankbait action seamlessly. |
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Posts: 519
Location: Bloomington, IL | Get the Linder's Golden Age of Musky Fishing and watch the segment with Josh Brovosky about the Figure 8 - he talks about taking subsurface on the 8 and they have above and below water camera work to demonstrate.
The Linder's DVDs (Golden Age and Modern Musky Magic) are excellent vids.
Edited by Nupe 3/7/2008 9:48 PM
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| Having been catching muskies on Eagle for many years...of which I think that when I looked at my number last...we (my two sons and I) were catching almost 34% of our fish on figure 8's. I've found that if you pull the rod "straight back" into you, no matter which way Mr. Esox is going, the hooks will get into him.
Just my 2 cents worth...and that is about all that's worth!!
Edited by Donnie3737 3/5/2008 1:40 PM
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| having caught a few on the fig 8 I would agree with Donnie, straight back into em hard, if you are super deep with your rod simply standing up can do the trick...
I am not one to take a topwater lure under water on the 8 at first..first I tend to keep it on the surface and do the 8 on the surface with pops and speed changes, if that fails then i go under...the only way to get good at figure 8's is practice, practice, practice on lots o fish....
that is my 1 rubles worth |
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| I am more inclined to pull it stright back into "me" instead of into the "fish." Is this what you were saying guest? By pulling it straight back, I've found that it doesn't matter which way ol' toothy one is going, the hooks will bury. In a figure 8, the fish is NEVER coming straight back into the boat. So by pulling stright into yourself, the books will bury!!
Is this clear or am I just confusing everyone?
Sorry if it is confusing now!!! |
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Posts: 3907
| Alot of very skilled folks have offered great ideas. I'll throw this one out.....
be sure your drag system is working perfect. No need to hit the free spool and then thumb the spool to give her line. If the drag is set right the fish will pull the line out; the bigger the fight in the fish then the more line goes out. I think lots of us use Smooothies on Abu 4000, 5000 and 6000 series reels. I have them on all my reels.
I have heard that the biggest mistake one can make is to allow oil to get to the drag washers. (Still talking Abu here) When that happens, the only way to get the drag tight enough to really set the hook is to totally wrench down on the drag wheel. Now the drag is too tight, but loosen it at all and it's too loose. Wrenching down also flattens the two metal concave washers. (Don't dunk your reels in the water, either.)
Anyway, you want your drag system working just right when that big fish hits at boatside at midnight. When you are loading out, loosen all the drags on all your reels. Reset them next time you fish. All this is for the 4000, 5000 and 6000 reels, the only ones I know about. |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | I always have the feeling that muskie are much more accurate in attacking something that's underwater rather than on the surface. It seems that the closer to the surface of the water a lure is the more often muskie miss it. If nothing else to me this is a good reason to go under water with a surface lure. Not that you can't catch one on the surface, it's just harder. Doug Johnson
Edited by dougj 3/5/2008 6:58 PM
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| I totally agree with Mr. Johnson on this issue of "underwater." My first figure 8 with a surface lure stays on top. From there, if the fish hasn't eaten yet, I go subsurface and start speeding up on the inside turn as I go down, and slowing down on the up and out move, ALMOST cresting the surface, creating an escaping motion by the baitfish. But at all times, I keep my lure underwater although the depth change might be as much as 3-4 feet depending on which rod I'm using.
Thanks for your insight everyone. This has been an AWESOME thread to read through.
Donnie
Edited by Donnie3737 3/6/2008 9:00 PM
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