|
|
Posts: 761
| The other day,I Caught Lindner's show and watched a segment as Al and Jim were tossing Rapala dt's tight into a weedy river bank. The casts were very short and accurate. The key being accurate. I know this was bass fishing but was there ever a time when you have to make a pin-point accurate casts in the slop,along a bank or stumpfield and find a shorter rod ,6 to 7ft. easier to use? I'm not trying to to advocate the short rods,just for a few specific techniques. I know some of the guides here say they don't use anything under 8ft. or so. But, do you not have better accuracy on short casts in cover with the short rod? When I'm faced with that condition, my choice is the 6'09" Premier. Comments? Kdawg |
|
| |
|
Posts: 134
| I'm sure I'll get blasted by the "Longrodders", but if you are more comfortable with the short rod why not use it as you see fit. I have rods up to nine feet and they are great but I still have a couple of six and seven footers that I use too. A lot of fish were caught in the last 75+ years on short rods befor the Long Rod showed up.
OK, now shoot me down.
Joe W |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2024
| I personally don't use anything below 7'6", though on occasion I will toss my dad's 7'. I spend a lot of time each year on timbered reservoirs in IL and even if I'm snipe casting through thick timber or trying to make short casts to each branch of a big laydown I have no problems or "need" for a shorter rod. I also like the leverage you can create with a longer rod which helps wrestle fish out of thick cover. If I need to be make SUPER accurate casts, it's hard to revert back to the bass days and beat the old "pitch cast."
When I wade rivers (up to hip deep water) I find that doing any kind of figure-8 or figure-O with an 8' rod is almost impossible (in ankle deep or shin deep water it's possible but anything deeper and it gets much harder), so I'll grab a shorter rod but again not shorter than 7'6". |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2894
Location: Yahara River Chain | I get the best action out of a short rod (mid6 ft.) on my side to side baits. By action I mean jumping out of the water action on my topwaters, not that side to side snake swimming action like I see many have.
I have a couple of short rods rig, one with a "naked" leader (no hardware) and another with only a swivel on the leader.
Edited by muskie! nut 1/30/2008 5:26 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Nope, 8'6 is the shortest I'll use. |
|
| |
|
| esoxman50 - 1/30/2008 5:07 PM
I'm sure I'll get blasted by the "Longrodders",
Joe W
That's funny IMO!!
 |
|
| |
|
Posts: 134
| I use my old 6 footers for sucker rods and they work great for setting the hook hard and fast. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I use a couple 7' rods alot, and a 6'9" custom built for really making a Weagle walk.
No problems hooking up, casting, or fighting the fish.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 401
| It is all about comfort and personal preference.
Have you noticed that you will not see many bass rods 8 feet or over? Most Bass Tournaments do not allow for longer rods because years ago anglers were using long rods up to 15 feet to get into small patches of weeds without making a cast. They decided it was unfair and limited the length to less than 8 feet. Therefore manufactures limit there length to under 8 feet. Does it mean there is no need for a longer rod? I think not...it is what the manufacturing market decided.
I personally use longer sticks for everything when musky fishing.
Keith |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1046
| That 6`9" is a great fuzzyduzzit rod and i find when I use the small boat 14` lund 7`ers work much better for baits with no built in action. |
|
| |
|
| I agree with Worrall in that I use a 6' 9" for side to side topwaters and glide baits. I just can't get the action out of those lures using the longer rods. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 457
| I use a 6'6" for some baits, and I use three 6'9" rods for a LOT of baits. One is a great glider rod, one is an excellent topwater rod, and another is great for ripping believers through the slop. I love them, and will never part with my rods under 7'.
With that said, I also have rods out to 8'6" that I won't part with either. while most of my pull baits are fished on a 7'6", as are most of my cranks and bucktails, the longer rods work plastics and spinnerbaits better for me.
What works for you works for you, who really gives a hot da*n what anyone else says? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 109
| If I was 5' 6" tall a 6' rod might be comfortable and doing figure eights with all day wouldnt be a problem, but I am closer to 6'2" and fishing from the bow is a long ways down to the water with my boat. I also like the balance of the longer rod and I can cast further in "most" instances. |
|
| |
|
| momuskieguy...the height logic behind a shorter person using a shorter rod doesn't fly w/ me...long rods are great for even short dudes...so many advantages ...imo it's just as easy for a 5'6" dude to cast an 8'6" as it is a 6' dude.
short rods are useless to me.... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | I hate to admit it, but I agree with BN...LOL
I have used 9 footers out of bass boats throwing gliders, walk the dog topwaters, etc...no problem.
I have my clients use 8'6 rods, no matter their height and they have no issues what so ever. Personal height, size of boat, baits used, etc...longer rods are a positive way to up your productivity.
That being said, I can't wait to use my new Pro Edge 9'6 this year!!!! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 761
| I agree 100 percent with the advantages of the longer rods with 1 question. Do the guys who fish with those long rods feel that they could place a lure into that weedy pocket or parralel to a laydown or dock as well as the guy using a 6 to 7ft rod? Kdawg |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1456
Location: Kronenwetter, WI | Have a little river I fish where you have to drop the bait in just the right spot. Last year I struggled a bit with my 8-6. Not sure if it was just 'getting used' to it, or if longer rods are just harder to nail a spot with. Anyhow, I've got a 9-0 being made up by keith right now...that should be really interesting! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2024
| kdawg - 1/31/2008 6:28 PM
Do the guys who fish with those long rods feel that they could place a lure into that weedy pocket or parralel to a laydown or dock as well as the guy using a 6 to 7ft rod? Kdawg
I don't even think twice about it.
We were tossing Mag Dawgs INTO those stump clumps from long distances due to visibility issues. That's an 8' rod.
Attachments
----------------
 P1000780.JPG (142KB - 99 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Your casting accuracy is alot better with longer rods and alot less fatigue |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Why is there less fatigue casting accurateltywith a longer rod? Just curious. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 457
| I disagree that accuracy is impaired by a short rod, as well do I disagree that a long rod is less fatiguing than a short rod. It depends on the individual using it. I can punch my 6'6" with heavier baits in tighter quarters than a lot of the guys I fish with that fish longer rods. Also, on a short rod, it is easier to control the load, and distance of the cast.
What might work for you, might not work for someone else. What might work well for others mightn't work for you.
I mean, if one is really going to talk about accuracy and rod length, why is it that the majority of pitching rods are in the six six to seven foot range? control of the bait during presentation would be my guess. I would also surmise that that control is going to transfer into musky rods from bass rods, the principle remains the same.
And yet, I reiterate, it is entirely up to the individual as to what is comfortable to them. I prefer my short rods for specific things,and will always have them in the boat; as will I always have 7', 7.5'. 8'...and so on. Each person has a preference and that is EXACTLY what it is... preference.
Edited by Whoolligan 2/1/2008 1:49 AM
|
|
| |
|
| I didn't think there was a use for a couple of "old days" shorter rods. What I learned during the past season was I could work a reef hawg in a way that I personally thought it should be worked. (remember I said personally)
I was constantely slapping the water with my longer rods, which would hamper what the bait was doing. Now with my 6'2" rod that bait looks unbelievable out there. Not sure about the fatique and accuracy thing, but I will say one thing. We start our neice and nephew out on those same rods (6'2") and they seem to have no problem with accuracy so far. We will break them in on the longer rods probably this year. That broomstick has found a special spot in our boat for times we want to throw certain baits. And to think I was ready to get rid of it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 5874
| I've got rods from 6' to 10'. There is no right answer to this. Some guys believe that longer in all circumstances. I believe there is a room for different length rods for different circumstances. I'm 6'1" and like a 6 1/2' to 7' rod for jerk baits, and a bit longer for glide baits. I like a 8 to 8 1/2' for some bucktails, and top water, and I like the 10 footer for light bucktails.
Personal preference for everyone. That's my answer. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 401
| sworrall - 1/31/2008 10:05 PM
Why is there less fatigue casting accurateltywith a longer rod? Just curious.
My perspective as a rod builder.
I think accuracy has everything to do with the person holding the stick and almost nothing to do with the stick itself. A particular stick might make that particular person better but the same stick might make the next person worse.
Fatigue. Couple things that might be confusing with fatigue and folks that throw some of the sticks I have made. Diamondback, the new Edge Series, some St Croix sticks and I am sure there are others, have a softer tip that allow the bait to load on the rod blank and fling (cannot think of a better word right now) the bait forward. Add a longer stick and you will have more tip speed which causes the rod and the bait to do most of the casting for you. Same bait with a broomstick short rod and the person throwing it has to do all the work. I have been told by people that I build for that they almost had to relearn how to cast to stop from getting backlashes because they were accustom to doing all the work while casting.
I think an important reason for a longer stick is what you can do with the bait. I was watching a video last night where one of the people were using a stick I built him and it was long. He went into a deep figure 8 without bending down and the fish ate. Personally speaking again but I feel anytime you can keep a bait deep on a figure 8 you increase your chances of catching that fish.
Hope that makes sense. IT IS STILL PERSONAL PREFERENCE.
I am done rambling.
Keith
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | 2 Biggest reasons for less fatigue:
1. You don't have to bend down like you are trying to touch your toes when you do a figure 8
2. You don't have to do a muscle man hard cast with long rods, let the rod do the work for you.
With shorter rods it is ALMOST impossible to do a proper figure 8, change bait direction, fight a fish with the rod doing all the work and absorbing the head shakes.
When guys bring their own rods into my boat, if it is 6'6, 7 or 7'6, I strongly suggest they leave their rods in the truck and just use mine. At the end of the day, they all love the longer rods.
I have no use for short rods.
|
|
| |
|
| long rods are flat out going to cause less fatigue...try using a short broom stick 6' rod throwing mag dawgs for a day and then use a 9' diamondback the next day...come back to me and tell me the 6'er was less fatiguing. ha!
Let the ROD do the work guys...it's not that hard...and for your rod hitting the water...i use an 8' xheavy all star for side to side jerks and tops and I work it to the side, not down...seems to work just as well.... have fun with your pool cue's and see how you feel in 10 yrs of trying to toss baits around ...but if that's what you want great... personal preference yup. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I fish from a lower platform, and have no problem with the '8' with a 7' rod.
It's preference all the way. I really like the telescoping Okumas I got last year for the 2X10 stuff running a 400 with a power handle, and used them to chuck big spinnerbaits last year very comfortably. They just 'feel' good. But when it comes to working a glider or a zig zag topwater, my 7' Fig with a balancer on the butt or a custom Thornes 6'9" and a balancer and an Induron 250 are my preferred setup. I can make the lure dance better with the shorter rod, must be my crooked elbows or something. No fatigue because the rod is balanced and the lure easy to work.
bn, maybe that's because you hate gliders....hehehe |
|
| |
|
Posts: 66
| If I am useing a chop bait like a sledge or suick, I like to use a 6'9" jerkbait rod. When up in the front of the boat it helps me chop the bait without slapping the water. Its just what i am used too. To each his own.
brian |
|
| |
|
Posts: 761
| Quote"I've also graduated to this rod for crankbaits and topwater lures in heavy slop where a short,pin-point cast is more important" That was Joe Bucher just 2 years ago in MH magazine Aug/Sep of 2006. Joe was speaking of the 6'09" Premier. I totally agree with casting distance,leverage,loading,figure-eights,fighting a large fish,-but the short accurate casts? I guess even some pros differ on this one. Kdawg |
|
| |
|
| ok maybe for one specialized technique where you are up in slop and you are casting under say 20' I will agree I could see a shorter rod being a touch better for that ONE thing...but for 99% of musky fishing...go long or go home!
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | like I have said, I used a 9 footer out of a BASS boat, using gliders, Weagles, chop baits....
My rod never hits the water, or "slaps" the water.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | I generally like longer rods because that's what I have used my entire life for salmon fishing. The only downside I can see to using a 9' rod all day for casting is weight. For sure a longer rod casts much easier and will make the 8 easier, particularly for a tall guy like me but a 9' rod is considerably heavier than a shorter stick. A 7' rod feels like a feather.......as for accuracy, I am far more accurate with a longer rod.
jed v. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2378
| Use whatever you feel comfortable with.
Can we all live with that? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8788
|
I use are 6'-9", 6'-10", 7'-6" and 8'-0". And in my opinion (which I realize I'm not entitled to have) you can;t know what rods are best for anything until you've actually fished with them enough to get used to them and develop your own style of fishing and working baits.
So, if I were to give advice on what rods to buy it would be this:
Fish with as many as you can, find out what you like, and then buy the best version of that you can afford. And that pretty much goes for everything from cars to shoes to fishing equipment. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 66
| Doing an 8 with a 6'9" is a pain on the back after a long day.
When I say my rod "slaps" the water its because when I use a sledge or a suick I start with the rod straight out and pull straight down hard.
(Chop). I would never be able to do that with a 9 footer. (maybe slower and out tho the side but not straight down).
Like I said, its just what I am used to.
Brian |
|
| |
|
| MikeHulbert - 1/31/2008 6:50 PM
Your casting accuracy is alot better with longer rods and alot less fatigue
so wrong longest rod is not good for accuracy,but for distance thats another story |
|
| |
|
| why does anyone think long rods are not good for accuracy? when you cast a million times a year you get pretty good at putting a lure on a spot the size of a dollar bill 75 feet away....maybe the ones that don't think they can make accurate casts with long rods just haven't used them enough and made many casts?
my 2 cents.. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | 100% agree with Mr. B-Rad again... Longer rods make pin pointing cast a breeze. Why would a longer rod take away from casting accuracy? You get to cast easier, and the longer rod will put it out there where you need it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1046
| there is no way a long rod can be as accurate as a shorter version. As learned through so many bassmasters. If on a timber loaded river there is noway possible you will be more accurate with a 9`er then if I was throwing a 7`er what I would consider the best rod in tight situations. Seems like common sense to me. I like the long tom`s also, but not for accurate/tight fishing.
Edited by The Handyman 2/1/2008 2:22 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 8788
| Accuracy comes with practice. I don't think the length of the rod has anything to do with it.
I can be as accurate with a 6' ultraight rod as I am with an 8' muskie rod or a 9'6" surf rod. Completely different setups of course, but when you make thousands of casts with whatever it is, you'll get to the point where you can hit a leaf floating on the water at 50 yards.
I have noticed though that if I'm using a certain muskie rod most of the day and switch to a different one my next few casts are WAY off. Takes a while to get "the feel" back... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Ok guys,
I'm in the market to buy a new rod to throw reg. Weagles and also the 10" Weagle, along with other top water lures.
I use a 6.9 St Crox and want to get another for topwater... I have three 8' rods and can't seem to get the Weagles popping like I can with the shorter rod. ( smacking the water with the rod tip)
I'm 5'9" tall and fish out of a Skeeter that is pretty close to the water so with the 8' rods I do slap the water every once in a while...So am I to short or is my technech screwed up while trying to throw a Weagle with an 8' rod ??
Sorry about the spelling.
Jerome |
|
| |
|
Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | got a "long" 8' rod two years ago, last year got a 8'6" rod and won't use the 8' anymore ... used andy's 9' last year and have one coming ... now i've got an 8' and an 8'6" that won't get used much. all day, deep 8's, total control and much less stressed after especially a 7 or 8 day stretch of fishing long days everyday. i'm 43 years old and a trip to lotw or eagle is memorable for pain (have severe shoulder injury history) ... it is different and more enjoyable at least for me since i changed equipment. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | I wouldn't say that your technique is "screwed up" if you slap the water...It's just how you throw it.
I use my 8'6 as my weagle rod and never come closer than 2 feet away from the water. I guess it's all how you throw it.
As far as the famous Weagle "Swoosh"....it all about the slack line and working it slow and not about the rod. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I tried an 8'6" rod for my Weagles, and after trying it for long enough to be sure, went back to my 7' model because I'm simply more comfortable with it.
6'9" custom and 7' standard to 7'6" for me on the gliders/chop baits and side to side stuff, 8' to 8'6" for most everything else. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Steve,
I like your thinking on this matter, we need to share a boat one of these days.
I have one Weagle that boated 13 fish in 2006, so using that 6'9" rod must be a good thing..... Eh......
Long rods have their place, but the shorter rods also have their place to.
Jerome |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2024
| You can use a longer rod to throw big walk-the-dog baits with. Folks that slap the water tend to come straight down versus slightly to the side. I drop the rod tip off to the right-side of my right ankle, allows me to use slightly longer rods for WTD applications which I think is what Mike was referring to. I also use all wrists since I palm the reel, not sure if that matters a whole lot.
My .02 cents. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I also use all wrist and reel, just prefer a shorter rod to do what I do. I don't work a Weagle like most other folks.... And frankly, I will continue to use the rod that I find most comfortable, and recommend everyone else try different rods for different applications to find what works for you. |
|
| |
|
| The original question "Is the any use for a short rod?" I say absolutely yes. We that fish the small streams in West Virginia and Ohio still use "small" rods. We make float trips in 10, 12 or 14 foot flat bottom boats. Usually with only a trolling motor for power. Many of the streams we muskie fish in are less than twenty feet wide. With such small boats space is at a premium. I normally take two rods that are 6 to 7 feet long. Many use rods shorter than that for " throwback baits" rigged with a creature. These streams are not only narrow they are also shallow in many places, so a 6 foot rod is also our depth gauge. Figure 8's are made at shallow depths. We fish a "hole" , a deep section of the stream which may only be 6 feet deep, drift downstream to the next riffle, get out of the boat, float the boat across the riffle, get back into the boat and fish the next "hole". Long rods would be in the way of getting in and out of the boats and would stand a very good chance of getting broken. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2024
| I guess I should have clarified and said that my WTD rod is 7'6" which I suppose by some is considered "short."
To each their own. Do what's comfortable. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 357
Location: Long Prairie, Minnesota | Personally, I prefer to use a 6'6" or 6'9" rod when throwing my jerkbaits. Why? Because it is what I am comfortable with and like. Just feel like I can get the bait to perform better and have better control. Never have had a problem with hooksets or fighting. However, I do notice a difference when I goto my 8 footer as I try to cast as "hard" as I do with a shorter rod. Have to remind myself to cast "lighter", so I agree with Mike on that point. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 315
| it appears that no one is in my situation. as of right now i have 2 set-ups and looking for a 3rd before the season opens. the first set-up i bought was a few years ago and it was a 7' st croix with an ambassador 6500. thats all i could afford the last one i bought was a 7'6" compre with another ambassador. my situation is the money issue. i dont have a lot to be splurging 
i use what i have and can afford at the moment. my 7' er works great for glide baits and topwaters and the 7'6 is great for everything else in my eyes. if i had the $$$ to buy these really nice 8' rods i probably would but since i cant i use what i got and i still catch fish on them year after year
-b-
(but if anyone has an extra 2piece 8' or 8'6 layin around ill take it ) |
|
| |
|
| if i had the $$$ to buy these really nice 8' rods i probably would
Okuma has a very nice 8'6" telescopic rod in H and XH pwr that's quite affordable.
http://www.okumafishingteam.com/rods/conventional/evxspecialty.html
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 291
Location: Minneapolis | I'll sometimes switch to a shorter rod when I'm fishing solo. This probably depends on how tall you are and your boat, but it's a lot harder for me to net a big fish by myself when I'm using 8' and longer rods. The longer rod makes a longer line pendulum that the fish can use to dance just outside of netting distance. |
|
| |
