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Posts: 7
| When is enough is enough. I was looking at getting a guide for northern MN and even the guides that dont fish day in and day out, get $400.
Do the math, why are fishing guides making more money then some privite practice doctors. I would love to make $400 a day or more as I saw on some websites.
The last guide I hired was Dave Doriazo and he was under $200 and that was 10 years ago. I had a great time, we caught fish and it was worth every penny. But for $400, it would have to be the trip of lifetime. I do the math and I can fish a week on LOTW or hire a guide for two days.
When did these rates go through the roof?
Did the rates go up when Ranger boats started selling boats for $40-50k?
Some of these guides even fish in the front of the boat and get first water and still charge that amount of money. I cant believe it. Maybe I am still in the stone age, but the rates seem high and the good old fashined guiding values dont seem to be around anymore.
Ok, I am off my soapbox | |
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| guides are business-people operating in a free market.
they set their rates based on the laws of supply and demand, and a day with a guide is definitely NOT a "necessity". heck, there was a time when traveling north and staying at a resort to fish muskies (almost always with a guide) was something that only the rich could do. the sport as a whole is much more accessible.
if demand is high, prices increase - maybe even enough to allow some of the hardest working self-employed people in the industry to make a living wage and afford health care. but probably not.
a quick google search will list guides that represent a wide range of prices.
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin |
This has been covered here quite a bit.
What does Ranger pricing have to do with Guide fees? I don't own a Ranger, and I get $350.00.
I don't know any private practice doctors that charge less than $50 an hour. I know a ton of other professionals who charge a whole lot more.
Insurance, Fuel costs, etc for the rig
Tow rig, insurance, fuel
Gear, lures, stuff that lasts a 'season'
line, leaders, stuff that lasts a week of guiding
work in the best, worst, and all sorts of weather
short season
have to spend the day with some clients. Guide call clients like this 'sports' Other guides know exactly why.
Lots more, but most importantly..
It's what the market will bear.
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Posts: 7
| Not ment to be a tirade.
More of a question of when did rates start going though up and why. I had not looked at rates a few years. You both make a good point on health care and such and I guess I dont have a problem with those guides that do that for there only living.
But how can the part-time weekend guides get the same rates then? Most guides I saw only fish a few days here and a few days there, yet maintain a day job to earn a living, health care and such. I would think those guides would be a lot less, since they are not as "dialed in" as the full time guides. I am sure they "know" the water and should be paid for there knowledge, but they might not know where all the big fish are on a day to day basis.
My comment on the Ranger is, maybe that was a factor in the costs. Before those expensive boats became part of the guide equiptment, low cost smaller Lund and Tuffy boats were used. Those rigs were less expensive to the guide and I am sure they were able to keep more money in there pockets.
Gas we all know about that, that I understand way too much.
Steve, I am glad you are under $400. You would be a good bang for a buck for a guide since you fish at least 5-6 days a week. Your a quality guide from what I have read and I am sure that is why you are so busy, putting smiles on your customers faces.
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| I agree with much of what lambeau and Steve wrote. I am not sure hom much Mr. Doriazo charges now, but I bet its not under $200 anymore like it was 10 years ago. Just as gas prices werent what the were 10 years ago, or anything else I was buying 10 years ago.
And there are a heck of alot more musky anglers than there were 10 years ago.
Purely market driven my friend, and you will find many quality guides in Wisconsin that are under $400. In fact I cant think of any myself that are over $400. But thats Wisconsin. MN is a different ball game, thats the place to be right now, and they are popping quality fish at an unprecedented rate. Simple supply and demand. If they werent getting the money, they wouldnt be charging it. And in general the water is much bigger than what we have here. I know if I am out on what we consider big water here (Twins, LVD) its pretty easy to burn through a tank of gas in a long day in my boat (27gal) then you add gas for the rig on top of that. I cant imagine what they are going through out on Mille Lacs and Vermillion.
And I think very little of it has to do with the boat itself, personally I dont know how those guys do guide out of Rangers, nice boats but are really bad for storage, and being a guide I usually have at least 3 of everything in the boat. Not the ideal guide boat IMO. If you are booking/not booking a certain guide because of the boat they have, your not going to get your moneys worth out of a guided tripo no matter who you go with. One of the best multispecies guides in the midwest IMO Eric Hattaja guides out of a tin can yet. Yet the only thing his customers usually complain about is sore arms from reeling in fish all day.
Another thing you have to look at is what are you paying for? Are you paying to go out and catch fish that day, or is this something you want to do and take the knowledge from that day and apply it to the rest of your fishing days. I dont know about anyone else, but to me the knowledge is what you pay for, what price do you put on shaving YEARS off the learning curve?
I am on the water 7 days a week with clients or not, and I think the motto I came up with says it best "putting a lifetime of experience into your experience of a lifetime."
I think if you put things into perspective you will find that $400 is a bargain. And I hope you dont hold this against some of the guides you were looking at in northern MN. There are some top notch guides over there. A few I will have no problem handing over MY $400+ to. | |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | Then doctors, give me a break. Have you seen the price of gas? Do you know what insurance cost? and then there is always snacks and soda in the boat. Suckers in the fall. and many guides are self employed and have to pay there own insurance, the full amout of s.s. not half, and have to provide own retirement account. no paid vocation or sick days. My dentist just got 1400 from me in an hour and half!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pfeiff | |
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Location: Illinois | While I admit I think guides are costly, it is no different than how I feel about much of everything else, really. If you are looking for an answer to when, I'd say in the last 10+ years the sport has grown dramatically, in both numbers of musky fisherman and musky guides. Now, do not forget about inflation and rising insurance costs either!
Most guides (in my experience) will be on the water for nine hours or more, and once you subtract all of their overhead like gas and supplies, they probably are lucky to make around thirty an hour per trip. Sounds okay, but just think how many days per week/per month/per year works.
As previously mentioned, with some work one can find "cheaper" guides. Realize you *might* 'get what you pay for'. And most guides offer 1/2 day packages which are basically 1/2 cost.
I empathize with your sentiment but also with the guides because all of us are getting screwed. A dollar doesn't go as far as it used to and it seems to be getting worse every day. God bless the guides, they are doing their best to ensure we go home happy. They are business men(& women) with families to feed.
It's a good question, and the answer is lures, rods, boats, nets, gas, milk, eggs, diapers and guides rates have all been INFLATED over time and will seemingly continue for some good time.
Mike Witowski
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Posts: 5
| Back in the marina business years ago, some people would complain about the mechanics hourly labor rate for fixing their outboard. Let's say the service bill back then was $40.00 bucks, a disgruntled customer would say: "Forty bucks, all you did was turn a couple screws." I told the mechanic to tell them that five bucks was charged for turning the screws, and $35 was for knowing which screws to turn.........
Yep, economics 101. Supply and Demand dictates pricing.
Edited by campfire 1/6/2008 9:23 AM
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Posts: 1430
Location: Eastern Ontario | I started to guide in 2000 and my rates were 350USD but then it was worth 525CAD. Now with the fluctuation in the dollar I took a loss for many years and I now charge 525CAD. This means my rates have not changed in 8 years and lord knows the cost of everything has gone up.
I may be on the expensive side of the scale but like everything there are different level of service. Clients come here from far away and for multiple day trips to catch trophy muskies. All this is done in the best of comforts. Also there are but a couple of full time guides within 100 miles of here. Then you take a place like WI where you will find hundreds of guides of all levels as well as tonnes of resorts where guides are cheap. This brings the prices down for everyone but you will still find the better guides charging more. Like any business the ones that need work lower their rates and those that don't raise theirs.
And $50 an hour is not take home pay, after expenses it's a lot less. And this is a seasonal job. Basically guides are poor but get to do what they love for a living.
P.S. I'm sure if you look hard enough you will find a cheep guide but he may not be the best. | |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | The way I look at it, if their prices were so outrageous, they sure wouldn't have a need for another income stream in addition to their guide business. Only the select few that are the most successful can rely on their guiding as their only source of income. It would be interesting to know what percentage of guides also have other jobs. I'm guessing it's much higher than most would think.
Aaron
Edited by AWH 1/6/2008 11:21 AM
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | If they where too high they would not get anyone, there are some guides that need to charge less than others on the same water to get buisness or to ensure they are full to make there money back they have invested. Think about this, one day guide trip, client busts a reel and rod or drops one in the water or whatever, now where do you stand. Rememer a lot of people taking these guides might have never casted a bait caster or might not have even casted. They are also out there to make some money. I give lessons because I enjoy it but I also try to make a buck at it. | |
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Location: Eau Claire,WI | If the prices are too high then DON'T hire a guide!!! I will leave it at that.Let me ask you this,have you ever had a true 50 pound fish come to the sufrace and look at your bait? I did!!! last year...Was the price of the guide worth it,#*^@ right!!! Even she didn't eat the lure it was still a thrill of my lifetime! Oh,thanks Lee T!!! | |
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | My suggestion is don't hire a guide then. As for prices I know a lot of guides that are booked almost everyday at current prices. Prices must be in line IMO. One even costs $450 and you will have a hard time getting him! If prices were too high then it would take care of itself.....
JMO | |
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Posts: 670
Location: Otsego, MN | I look at it this way...I hired a gudie last year on Lake Vermillion and ended up paying probably $400 for a entire day of fishing. We didn't catch a single fish(tough conditions) but it was one of the most enjoyable days I have ever had on the water. I learned more about Lake Vermillion in one day than I could of in a dozen trips to the lake by myself. Driving from the twin cities to fish Vermillion is pretty expensive to do a lot of scouting around and time fishing wasted water. I look at guides as a great INVESTMENT and they are worth every penny. In my opinion guides are well worth there cost. | |
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Posts: 82
Location: Cottage Grove, Mn | Chunk n wind;
To get a proper prespective, what do you make per year, weeks vacation and do you have health, dental, life and stock options? What do you have invested in tools, training , special clothes.....If you're going to complain about people's wages, lets be able to ascertain value...........What do you make per day? What bonuses do you make?
good health,
greybeard ;) | |
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| I don't think the issue should be how much but rather why should I pay a guide $400.00 a day and then watch him fish .I'll never understand why the guide needs to cast when the client is paying to be put on the fish. I've had friends cough up $350.00 a day + tip (ethical anglers) to watch the guide catch the big fish of the day!
Can someone explain why this is, isn't the bottom line to make the client a happy camper !! | |
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Posts: 670
Location: Otsego, MN | I think having the guide fish is a bonus. Say most trips are you and a buddy and a gudie. Would you rather have 3 baits working to come on a pattern or just two. I say three. By having a gudie casting out the back of the boat your covering more water and presentations. So the guide bags a pig that day so what, maybe he just put you and your buddy on a pattern and you go on to catch your pig later in the trip. | |
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| "Just Curious,"
Good point. I have hired guides several times in the past. Once for pre-fishing a tournament (which I informed the guide of). The other time was several years ago which was my first experience on Mille Lacs and I was yet to catch a 50" at the time. I think whether the guide fishes or not should be discussed and is up to the client(s) paying $300-$500. My friend and I had to beg the particular guide on Mille Lacs to fish. Yes, my friend and I wanted to catch our first 50" but even more than that, we just wanted to see a huge muskie in the net that day. It all depends what you are looking for as a client. If your only goal is for you to catch fish (which is perfectly acceptable), then the guide should not fish. If your goal is to witness as much muskie fishing action as possible then the guide should fish. | |
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| My brother used to guide for around $200.00 per day. I know he never fished when he guided, and he put people on multiple fish quite a few times. He decided he wasn't going to do it anymore, although I can't remember why. I've never hired a guide myself, and I agree that the prices seem a bit high. As stated previously though, they have every right to charge whatever they can get people to pay. I would expect that many of them work all summer in states like MN., and then for the winter rely on making a few hundred dollars here and there at speaking engagements. The Muskie guiding season in MN. is rather short when you put it in that perspective. | |
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| If a guide does fish, it should always be out of the back of the boat and never out of the front.
Also, by having the guide fish you can learn how to work baits properly, how to figure 8 properly, how to fight a fish properly, etc.... that is if the guide knows himself!! LOL
I get asked a few times a year not to fish, but not many. And I normally ask before I pick up rod and start casting. Most people say, "Are you serious??? HELL YES you can fish!!!"
No on really windy conditions when I need to keep the boat in a certain position, then I will not fish and simply control the boat properly. But on a normal day, you bet, I am casting away out of the back.
As far as guide prices go...well....some deserve to get paid more than others that might only fish 2 times a week or only guide several times a month, but those guides are typically going to charge pretty close to just as much as the guys that do it 7 days a week. If "John" chages $400 a day and he is booked solid, "Jimmy" who might only guide 3 days month on the same body of water isn't going to charge $200....then people won't hire him because they know by the price something just isn't right....
And also cost is a huge factor. I am fishing out of a 2008 boat, with top of the line quality equipment. If you hire a limo for a night, do you want to ride around in a 1989 limo with 250,000 miles on it, or do you want to ride around in complete style and comfort? Insurance, gas, driving time, live bait, rods, lures, elecronics, etc.... I have alot of guys that hire me 6+ times a year...I have told all of these guys that what they spend on me, they could afford a boat, blah blah, blah...they all tell me the same thing...Yes, I know I could afford a boat with the money I spend by fishing you but, but at the end of the day, I get in my car and drive home....no worries about boat, keeping it clean, getting it fixed if something breaks, I don't have to buy a bunch of rods and thousands of dollars with of lures....I can fish with you, and drive home with no worries.....
HULBERT | |
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Posts: 999
| I can see paying $350 to $400 if the guide is going to give you your monies worth by that I mean you start early and fish your tails off all day and by the end of the day your tail is dragging and you both had enough. Or vice versa you start late afternoon and fish through the nite. And I think most of your well known guides are like that. The guides I have a problem with are the 8am to 4 pm guides. I personally wouldn't consider booking a guide if he is set in stone on those hours like so many northern WI guides still are. I was looking at this guides website for grins the other day and I see he charges $50 dollars for each additional hour over 8 hrs. That right there would turn me off. But their charging top dollar!! My 2 cents.
Mr Musky | |
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Posts: 311
| Hiring a guide is not about catching fish.........It is about "LEARNING"....I fished with 3 top notch MN. guides last year and learned more from those 3 trips than I ever would in a year on my own. When you hire a guide, you are getting an education, you are the student and they are the teacher, and you can't put a price on a good education. Catching fish is just a bonus.................... | |
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Posts: 999
| Hulbert,
I went to your site (very nicely constructed) and seen that your hours are 8 hours MINIMUM and 10-12 hours are the NORM, that's the kind of guide i'd be looking for and is worth the money.
Mr Musky | |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | If I hire a guide, he better be fishing as well. Like has been said already, you're paying good money to a guide for an education. Whether it be an education on the lake itself, techniques, etc. What better way to learn than to be able to watch a guide and how he fishes, how he presents the bait, what little things he might do to help trigger a strike? A guide can explain the hows and whys until he's blue in the face. But sometimes it takes SEEING how he does it to completely put the pieces together. If you're going to hire a guide and not watch how he fishes and not ask questions as to why he might be doing something a certain way, then maybe you do want him to just worry about boat control and not wet a line. In the end, whether the guide fishes or not is up to the client. I doubt you'll find a guide that says, "I'm going to fish whether you want me to or not."
Aaron | |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | Another thing to consider with a guide that fishes. By having another bait in the water (and likely a different bait, not just an additional one), the guide could very likely put together a pattern much quicker that will result in the client putting a fish in the boat (one of the goals!). Say there's two clients in the boat, the guide has one throwing a bulldawg and one a bucktail because it was a bucktail and bulldawg bite as of late. One is casting up in the weeds, the other right along the break. Maybe the guide chooses to throw a crank bait off the deep side, even though all the fish the past few days have been up shallow. After an hour, the guide has moved 4 fish while the clients have done nothing. The pieces are coming together. It's looking like the fish have slid deep. Maybe it's time to move the clients to this pattern, something that wouldn't have been discovered so soon if the guide wouldn't have been casting. Lots of advantages, as I see it.
Aaron | |
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| Mr. Musky,
Thanks, I don't have a set number of hours as a "FULL DAY"...my full days are as long as you want to fish, we'll keep fishing.
Hell I had one guy keep me on the water over 17+ hours one day!!! LOL
I'm going to be out there anyway, so I don't care if you want to fish 8 hours, 10, 12, 14....
Fishing "Banker Hours" doesn't cut it in this business.
Hulbert | |
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Chuck
I think guides that were charging $300 this year were cheap and $400 in no suprise with gas prices. Fulltime or parttime does not matter, it is what you charge to cover they expences and make some $$$. Last time I check most guides were not living the high life of what they charge.
How much would you pay a consultant to come in to you company for a 1 day of training, I would classify a guide as 1 day consultant a so they still are a bargain.
Like steve stated look at all the hidden expences of a guide full or part time. I would bet al said and done they make $20 a hour after expenses
Troyz | |
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I don't think most guides are charging to much in light of what the expenses are.
But $400 a day is out of reach of most anglers.
The unfortunate side of this situation is eventually guides will only be affordable to the "upper" class of anglers.
I think the day will come soon when you'll see more guides in less expensive boats, catering to people who may have their own rods/lures etc. at a cheaper rate than the guide that provides everything.
If not, than I think in the future there will be a lot less guides out there.
JS | |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | you know there are so many "customer definitions" too. some people just want to get out for one day of a vacation and "fish" like they would choose to go golfing or horseback-riding on vacation. then there are the hard-core's who want to learn more details and better there own already good game ... and of-course everything in-between.
your job as a client is to find the best guide for you based on what you are trying to accomplish.
hulbert ... nelson doesn't count! | |
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Posts: 1270
| I would sooner that they charge $400 and that is all that they accept than them charging $300 and expecting a $100 tip at the end of the day. | |
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Posts: 1516
| The times I have hired a guide I have always had a buddy along to split the cost and then the price is only $200.00 day. Not bad considering we fished about 14 hours some of those days. Never worked so hard fishing. | |
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| Last time I checked musky fishing is not a cheap sport. If a guide charges $400 and can book his calendar there are reasons that he or she can do that. Most likely they are a great fishermen and will try like heck to get their clients on big fish. Like Hulbert said some people don't want to invest in the fancy boat, all the rods/reels/lures etc and maybe only get a few days a year on the water and want a good shot at some fish. Think about how many days one could hire a guide even at $400 vs. the cost of one even avg, used Fiberglass boat, a few rods and some lures...then there are those that just want to learn more about a particular body of water and want to shorten the learning curve...to me that is why I do and will hire a guide...they have put in the time and money and if I spend one day with them picking their brain all day I can shorten the time it takes to learn a body of water...$400 could be relatively cheap in that respect...
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Posts: 654
Location: MPLS, MN | If a guides take home was $300 a day after expenses on a normal work schedual that's $78,000 a year. Pretty good. | |
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Posts: 32
Location: Brainerd, Minnesota | On behalf of the other guides in Northern Minnesota I would say this: that I have yet to hear a really poor comment on any of them. Each seem to have their own personality and style (in fact some are quite the characters), and each seem to get the job done in their own way. It's not really my style to sit here and try to defend myself as a guide, and why I charge what I do. Seems to me, bottom line, the best way to find out if a particular guide is "worth it" is to ask those that have hired him. We've heard from several guys on this thread who have hired various guides and it seems they only have good things to say. But if you're wondering, the easiest thing to do is ask the guide for a list of references. Get some for guys that caught fish, and some that didn't. You're going to find out real fast much about that particular guides character.
From my perspective, most of the guides have come to accept a more meager/seasonal income in order to do something that they love. Many of us have second jobs or businesses that help us to make ends meet. One things for sure, I have yet to meet a guide who isn't on top of his game up here. All are afflicted with an obsession (a good thing) to catch these amazing fish and to learn everything we can about them in the process. If we are doing our job, we pass on what we learn to the client, who may pick up what it took months or years to learn in basically one trip. If I'm not guiding, I'm chasing muskies with my friends, or alone if I have to, and rarely take a day off. I love the lifestyle, and wouldn't have it any other way. I'm sure it's the same with the rest of the guides.
My two cents.....
Tim Anderson
Big Fish Hunt Guide Service
[email protected] | |
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| Whrere are you going to guide 260 days a year???
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Posts: 654
Location: MPLS, MN | Guest - 1/7/2008 9:53 AM
Whrere are you going to guide 260 days a year???
That doesn't matter, just because you work half a year doesn't mean you should get a full years pay. Also, I'm also not against the prices just a little easy math. | |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | you've got to remember too though that it isn't "personal" income but rather "business" income and there's a big difference ... "business-expenses" don't come out of personal income.
to run a business with equipment, trucks, boats, motors, auxiliary equipment etc...
run that math and then come back with a more accurate report ...
been there and done it and it's not worth it ... the guys who make a business and lifestyle out of it ... more power to you ... i personally think you're nuts ... but then i think that's a pre-requisite too! | |
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| thanks for registering and joining the conversation Tim, welcome!
you've got a great looking website. http://www.bigfishhunt.com/
this is a "delicate" topic, and the public relations risk that guides take by speaking up here is noteworthy.
Mike Hulbert, Tim Anderson, Richard Collin, Shane Mason, Steve Worrall, Brad Nelson, and Jon Solberg - thanks for taking the time to share what it's like from the full- or part-time guides point of view too.
it's easy to take shots at guys who charge what at first seems like a big chunk of money. instead of focusing on the amount it costs, the better question (imho) is whether a guide's rate represents VALUE. i've only been out one time with a guide who i was disappointed with, and most times i've been very happy and felt it was me taking advantage of them due to the amount of hard work they put in.
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | try just once having an equipment problem the night before or the day of a booked date ... that was enough for me. how these guys are able to run it as a full-time business is beyond me and the time outside of that on the water is limited and they're tired but the boat, baits, rods, reels, oil reservoir, gas tank, and on and on and on are screaming "feed me" or "fix me" ... i honestly don't know how those guys keep the pace ...
i know i enjoyed a part-time thing at one time and when i was dialed in i could do well ... burn-out, passion, kids, life ... etc... took me away.
for me it was post-divorce and i would rather have been on the water than anywhere at the time .... now life is a lot different. i'm imagining that a guiding lifestyle sacrifices quite a bit of personal space ... LOL ... there should be a reward for that kind of sacrifice and seems there is cause these guys keep filling their books each year. | |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | "you've got to remember too though that it isn't "personal" income but rather "business" income and there's a big difference ... "business-expenses" don't come out of personal income.
to run a business with equipment, trucks, boats, motors, auxiliary equipment etc... "
But then you also have to remember they get to deduct many of the expenses the rest of us also incur. I also have a boat payment and upkeep/repair expenses. I also have insurance, tackle and electronics etc. Now I know the prices for a guides insurance are quite a bit higher, I know a guides equipment gets more use/abuse. I also know many guides get a discount on rods/reels and tackle. Discounts on electronics, some even get discounts on boats and the option not to make a payment until the end of the year(which is why you see numerous guide boats for sale in the fall of each year, they sell that one and order next years), the difference being those expense for me come POST tax not PRE tax!
Its no different than anyone else operating a business. I have about $10k invested in scaffolding and other equipment, a truck that gets 20k+ miles a year put on it, trailer to haul equipment over $2 million in liability and other insurance etc etc etc. The main difference here is that the equipment I havbe to buy and maintain is pretty much only good for work, where as a guide gets to use and enjoy his "work equipment" in his down time and throughout the reamainder of the season after he;s done guiding. Their equipment serves them while on vacation in Canada etc.
So if the average guide is $400 a day and booked solid for his season(figure 100 days) he's grossing $40,000 in 3 1/2 months of work. He then has 8 1/2 months of "off" time to generate additional income. Heck I notice many guides are employed in the teaching profession the rest of the year and guide in the summer months!
So I dont think they are overpriced(obviously the market will bear what they are charging) but I also dont think we should be taking up any collections for the "poor" guides! I have mroe of a problem with the idea of requiring the client to also buy lunch, and also with the whole tipping deal. To me if you are self employed with the ability to set your own prices at what they need to be to cover expenses and turn a profit you shouldnt need to be tipped at the end of the day. And to have someone pay $400 for a day of guiding and expect them to buy your lunch as well is a bit over the top to me!
Edited by castmaster 1/7/2008 11:09 AM
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | CM ... so, a $40k gross business income with all the expenses required + a $25k - 30k teaching job is extreme? ... sorry, but i still don't get it. are you saying that if it's tax-deductable it doesn't become a debit and it becomes essentially free? ... send me the address of your accountant! ... LOL
my guess is that you might not fit the description of the client they're targeting?
i fly 400,000 miles a year ... i fly gold elite status on NW and Premier Executive on United ... could go anywhere, anytime and never pay a dime (call this my boat) ... co-workers, friends and family talk about how great it must be to have all those miles ... LOL ... (i'm drawing a corellation to your argument that a guide gets free boats and gets to play with them when they aren't working) ... what some may see as perks mean nothing if you're living the reality of it. my guess is that a guide uses their boat for pleasure about as often as i fly for pleasure. when it's your job and you give most of your life's time doing it the best thing you could have are the 21 weekends that you gave away either on a plane or in a boat for the sake of this argument.
i'm sorry, but if i'm working 9 mos. as a teacher and guiding 100 days of 14 hour plus days and maintaining a life ... i'm picking something else to do on my spare time instead of cheating my clients by playing in my ranger ...
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | I am reluctantly responding to this just because I feel I should. Usually when someone has the idea that someone has it way to good you will not change there mind, but here goes anyway. First off let me state that my daily rate is $325, and I guide in Northern Wisconsin. My rate is higher than some and lower than others for the area I guide.
The premise that a guide should work 10+ hours a day I agree with. I always try to keep clients on the water until dark, the start time is up to them. I have found that sunset is one of the most productive times on the water, and I want to give my clients the best shot at a fish. They are spending their hard earned money on me, and I want them to be successful.
The premise that a guide has to work every day however, I do not agree with. I do take down time for my own personal fishing, fishing a tourney or two, work around the house, time with the wife, etc. Guiding, believe it or not, is work. If you have problems believing that, you have never done it for 7 straight days. No one (except dairy farmers), is expected to work every day for a six month period, so all of the income analysis above are skewed.
On an average day I fish about 11 hours with clients. Take off the top the $100 of gas that goes in my truck and boat tanks that leaves $225. Barring any other expenses that it seems some want to discount that leaves about $20/hr. Hardly get rich money at all.
Two years ago I had clients that wanted to rent a decent boat for a day of fishing. After doing some research they found that for an extra $50 a day, they could fish out of my brand new boat and be guided for the entire day. All of a sudden the guide fee didn't seem all that expensive.
Edited by nwild 1/7/2008 12:59 PM
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Posts: 8865
| Norm, you say you average about $20/hour...
What about the investments you had to make in terms of equipment and insurance to be able to make that $20? Boat, truck, rods, reels, tackle, it's gotta add up.
Because let's be real for a second... $20/hour isn't great money when all you have to do is show up at a job every day and invest nothing to be able to do it because its someone else's equipment. Then you factor in the fact that a "normal job" is 250 days a year, with paid vacation, health insurance, 401k, etc. and suddenly a guide business making $20/hour doesn't amount to a whole lot.
Yes, $400 is a hell of a lot to spend for a day fishing and potentially not even catching anything. I sat down and figured out what I spent for guides over the last 4 years and I could have bought a Ranger! But this notion that full time guides are getting rich is just plain stupid.
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | esoxaddict - 1/7/2008 1:33 PM
Norm, you say you average about $20/hour...
What about the investments you had to make in terms of equipment and insurance to be able to make that $20? Boat, truck, rods, reels, tackle, it's gotta add up.
EA, I intentionally left those items out because some seem to think it unfair that I get to claim them as an expense while they don't. My Bulldawg bill alone this year was more than a days fee, largely used and abused by clients. But I won't even count that.  | |
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Posts: 3165
| skin cancer isnt worth it | |
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Posts: 101
Location: Liberty, IN (OKI Tri-State) | "Among the best investments one can make when venturing forth in search of the elusive masquinongy, no matter the waters She calls Home; the Ahab's of the Musky World - a Professional/Full-Time MUSKY Guide - cannot be underestimated!"
annonomyus... following 52-inch-plus release on LOTW (thanks again Greg)
God Bless EVERY SINGLE ONE of you that have the faith and endurance to follow your passion; LIVING a lifestyle that many of us fancifully imagine as a dream-come-true way of life... yet actually "getting it to pay the bills", makes you ALL, in my humble opinion, akin to the Cowboy or even Long Hunters of eras past. Free spirted men & women who give less than a 'tinker's #*^@' what the rest of us think or do as you cut your own trail!
I have been very fortunate throughout my work the past few years for getting to know and spend time on the water with several of the TOP full & part-time Musky specific guides/outfitters across the whole of North America and want to testify to any reading this post that, without exception, those I know exhibit a passion and drive that is far beyond the norm for even the most passionate enthusiasts among us. They belong to & support numerous conservation efforts on behalf of this amazing fish; speak & present semminars etc. And almost NEVER watch the clock while on the water... with OR without a client in the boat! They are, without exception, by my experience anyway, like taking a college level on-the-water course.
If you do your homework and let your chosen Guide 'do their thing' according to conditions... You'll be back too!
Let 'em fish; especially if you want 'learn their specific specialty lure/presentation techniques' (your loss if you don't)
Let 'em talk; talk about some 'characters'? Musky Guides got some serious BS .. LOL (and years of experience)
Let 'em share; these folks LOVE to share their LOVE, if you let 'em (Learn, share memories,& maybe experience "THAT" fish)
Don't be a hater ... this is ONE HELLUVA way to make a living and is really more likely a sign of some maddness we all share to a lesser degree than those with the HEART to commit to it's hardship vs. reward lifestyle.
My hat is off .. my hopes high,
Bob O
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Posts: 106
| Boy, this one really has two sides to the arguement
I can't afford $400 for a guide but also know that the insurance and other costs are
awful so I'm one of those who both hates and understands why were at where were at
I'd like to thank all those who will take a guy out just to fish in there area
this is the type of thing we need to do more of in the future, I've done both
the offering and the taking out and really have enjoyed it.
Thanks
Karl Knuth
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| Mike Hulbert, Tim Anderson, Richard Collin, Shane Mason, Steve Worrall, Brad Nelson, and Jon Solberg - thanks for taking the time to share what it's like from the full- or part-time guides point of view too.
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| What hasnt been touched on is what guides also give back. Most guides I know donate several dates each year on their own dime to help out where they can. Fund raising efforts, or other good causes. "Operation Muskie" for example which Norm is involved in. I think these things tend to go unnoticed sometimes.
With the show/banquet season coming up I am sure there will be plenty of chances at winning one of these donated dates.
Also most guides I know are pretty approachable, dont be afraid to pick up the phone or drop an email, or even say hi at the boat landings. Most have no problem throwing a guy a bone or two if asked. A phone call or email wont cost you much. | |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | simple, when I have clients I ask if they want me to fish or not. I actually would rather not if two clients in the boat. I can concentrate more on whats going on and feel better about it.
Pfeiff
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | castmaser,
If you don't buy me lunch, I don't show you the spot in which Norm's "queen' lives.
Of course expenses are tax deductible. Ob...I'm taxed at about 39% so the $275 take home is now gross income, then SS has to come out, and takes paid, and insurance paid, etc.... I BETTER have deductions. Can't guide Muskies until last Saturday May, most are pretty much done by Nov. 10 or so. Lucky ( and obviously a good guide) to be booked 5 days a week, (do YOU work 6 or 7?) so do your fuzzy math again. Weather and cancellations will eat up a day a week, etc...
You can tip or not, Sport.
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Location: Athens, Ohio | From a consumer-of-guide-services point of view:
I want to travel to muskie country. I take a week off work (paid vacation, value about $1200 gross), put $200 gas in the car, pay $60-80/night for motel lodging, another couple hundred for food; then stock up on baits, gear, all that. I want a bang for my buck, so I hire a guide for the first day or two of the trip to get me started on patterns so that by the end of the week I may actually be catching fish. Guide's daily rate seems like a drop in the bucket from that perspective. God bless you all for being there to help me, m | |
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| sworrall - 1/7/2008 11:43 PM
. Ob...I'm taxed at about 39% so the $275 take home is now gross income, then SS has to come out, and takes paid, and insurance paid, etc.... I BETTER have deductions. Can't guide Muskies until last Saturday May, most are pretty much done by Nov. 10 or so. Lucky ( and obviously a good guide) to be booked 5 days a week, (do YOU work 6 or 7?) so do your fuzzy math again. Weather and cancellations will eat up a day a week, etc...
You can tip or not, Sport.
Sounds like my job, Other than I don't make as much per hour. Yes I'm in Construction so sometimes I do work 6-7 days a week, I work when thiers work. When there is poor weather sometimes I don't get to work. I have no problem with what anyone charges, we live in a capitalist society. I try to get as much as I can, just think if your charging $400 a day plus most people I'd guess tip, your doing pretty good considering your doing what most of us wish we could. I never said anything about tips? I've been on two guided trips and tipped both times. | |
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Posts: 32
Location: Brainerd, Minnesota | Fin-addict.......you understand! Well said.
Tim Anderson
Big Fish Hunt Guide Service
[email protected] | |
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Posts: 1430
Location: Eastern Ontario | Shane Mason just mentioned all the days and money we donate to the cause but also you have to take into account the publicity costs and website costs and even more expensive are muskie shows. You know my cost to do the Chicago muskie show this weekend is $1750 ( $600 booth, $400 Motel, $400 gas, $200 food, $150 pictures ) which I have to find someone to share some of these expenses with or I just could not afford it. And that's just one show a lot of guides do several shows. | |
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Posts: 359
Location: Wauwatosa, Wisconsin | This is a very interesting thread and I appreciate all of the comments made here. As a service provider myself who charges clients for my time I am acutely aware of the pressures to balance fees with value (can you tell I'm a CPA? Who else would start out talking about being in balance?). I empathize greatly with the guides. At first blush it seems like these guys are living the dream, charging big bux for MUSKIE FISHING! Could it possibly get any better?!? But when you correctly "do the math", factoring in all of the direct costs involved and then including the overhead and indirect costs, the reality is that these guys are not making a killing. Then also consider some of the other business risks that have been mentioned: cancellations due to weather or customers, equipment problems and the downtime needed for repair and/or preventive maintenance, personal sickness or injury, relatively short seasonality. And how about the lack of a personal life during the season as these guys try to "make hay while the sun shines"? How much do they see their wives and children. Worst of all, I think of how I feel after a weeklong musky hunting trip standing in my boat casting for 12+ hours a day for 6 days, loving every minute of it, leaving feeling refreshed and renewed to get on with the regular daily grind again. After pounding for a week I'm usually ready to call it quits before my hand becomes permanently locked in that rod gripping position. Makes me wonder how much joy is taken out of musky fishing when it is your job.
As correctly stated or inferred by previous writers, the economics of supply and demand will ultimately dictate the "going rates". Although I was a huge proponent of Reaganomics and the supply-side economic movement of the 80's, in this case I believe the Keynesian demand-stimulus economics model is more relevant. Musky hunting popularity has sky-rocketed and that fuels the impetus for guide service demand.
Those who are experiencing "sticker shock" are likely struggling with the fact that we are not talking about one of life's necessities, but rather recreational, leisure-time spending. It is easy to understand how Joe Schmoe making $20 - $25 an hour struggles with paying a guide $50 per hour. That is a justification process that each one of us needs to reconcile in our own minds.
Thus, whether or not a guide is making decent money, or not, is not the real issue here, IMO. The guides can and will charge whatever the market will bear which, for now, is being driven by demand. However, this demand will change over time because it is not based solely on numbers. The guides must provide a quality experience to extend their demand curve and achieve longevity. There must be value perceived by, and defined by, the customer. Whether it be educational, results-driven (fish in the boat), or entertainment value. There are many outstanding guides doing tremendous jobs, on the water and off - keep up the good work, boys. Conversely, the demand-driven scenario has also caused the supply of guides to increase as guys see an opportunity to make a buck, resulting in the sad reality of some lesser qualified/experienced guides "riding the wave". Gotta be careful - caveat emptor.
Now for a commercial. I visit this site on a daily basis and I often wonder how I might contribute to this Muskie Community since I am not a muskie hunting expert yet. Well, it's TAX TIME - now is when I must "make hay while the sun shines", and I'm thinking I should offer some kind of tax return preparation discount to my fellow MuskieFIRSTers. I have clients throughout the country from California to Massachusetts, and especially in the upper midwest "muskie" states. I have a Masters Degree in Taxation, my own CPA Firm, and 30 years of professional experience. I will give this a little thought as to what might be appropriate if there is interest. I would be especially interested in hearing from guides who might be interested in accounting/tax services in exchange for a day on the water.
Greg Martin
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Posts: 8865
| Another thing nobody mentioned is what you actually get out of a guide trip. It's more than a day on the water, FAR more than that. As someone who has fished almost exclusively with guides, I have to admit that I owe most of my knowledge and skill as a muskie angler to those experiences. Everything from reading conditions, to lure presentation, understanding structure, baitfish movements, doing a good figure 8, learning a new lake... You're in the boat with someone who has probably spent 1000 days or more on that body of water chasing muskies in all sorts of conditions and at all different times of the year. You're not just paying for fishing, you're paying for that knowledge. And that's knowledge that you can get in a day, something it may have taken that guide years to figure out, something you may not have figured out on that lake on your own.
I think about that sometimes, after I catch a fish. "Would I be standing here holding this fish if I weren't for the guides who have taken the time to help me be a better muskie fisherman?" The answer is usually "no".
Can you really put a price on that?
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| I get a kick out of the guys that think musky guiding is not hard work, and that somehow these guys are getting paid to fish and it's all gravy...think about the countless days they HAVE to fish in a row, even the days with 30 mph winds out of the north and it's 35 degree's out but they have paying clients that want to fish...do you think there aren't quite a few days guides have no desire to really fish but they have to because they are booked..sure there are days it's 75, sunny and light winds and it's a great day...but think of all the days they put in and how many of those could be considered "fun"
Anyone that thinks guiding for a living is easy hasn't fished all that much imo.
The best guides earn every penny....
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | I think I'm gonna be a professional hockey player - man those guys have it good. Get payed to play hockey...what a life!
S. | |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | sorenson - 1/8/2008 10:41 AM
I think I'm gonna be a professional hockey player - man those guys have it good. Get payed to play hockey...what a life!
S.
No offense buddy, but I think you're trying to put on the skates a bit passed your prime.....Maybe just stick to putting in those Guzzler things? | |
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Posts: 238
| I rather have the guide fishing with me, not only will you learn more you can see how he breaks anything down in his head, locations, conditions, patterns and boat control and if your not sure why he did something you could ask him, I think most of them will tell you! I took my first guide trip last summer and I told myself to watch and learn and to not ask to many questions!! I think if your always asking questions that will start to bug the guide and get him off his game plan. I think you can learn alot by paying attention to detail and how he is useing a certain bait and why!! Cost of a guide doesn't bug me, but i didn't think you have to tip them!!
I can understand if a guide took you out for 17 hrs, but if it was a regular 8 hrs. I dont think so for 400$!! Maybe Iam wrong!!
Thnaks!!! | |
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Well then, f4, you wouldn't hire some of the guides out there. 17 hours would cost you $700 in my rig.
Most of my guide days in the summer last 10 to 12, and anything over 4 is a full day.
125 days completed on the water might be considered a full schedule in MN.
Anyone doesn't think a guide should be paid the going rate, don't hire one. Simple. | |
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Posts: 238
| I unerstand Steve i was just commenting on a guide that mentioned taking a client out for 17 hrs. I think it was Hulbert that mentioned it and I also would
believe that fishing was super hot and the both didn't want to leave!1 But I"am just guessing!! Thanks | |
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| No, not really....
We caught fish for sure, but this client wanted to fish 3 differently lakes and we did...catching fish on all three.
My clients know before they enter the boat....they are going to fish until they tell me to stop. I let them make the decision how long they want to fish.
One thing is for certain, I have NEVER had a client unhappy with the amount of time I gave them. If they want to fish 8 hours...great...if they want to fish 16, that is cool to....
Also, alot of my half days are 7 hours....yes, 7 hours for $150. Why? Because to me, 7 hours is about half a day's fishing.
HULBERT | |
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| I can attest to Hulbert's days on the water. I've fished with him as both a client, contest winner and friend, and never has he been the one to call it a day.
To be honest, at times it feels like you need to beg him to come in.
Alot has been said about guides on this thread. I've fished with 8 or so for muskys. Some good, some bad. Not a single one of them spends as much time on the water as Mike. $400 a day, yes that seems a bit high. The market, whether it is the stock market, realestate or fishing guides is always inaccurate in the present time. Over time however, it is very accurate. Some guide may bend a few folks over for $400 a day, but if he isn't bringing something to the game and putting fish in the boat, the customers are never coming back.
I'm not always in pressed with fishing with a guide and boating a few when everbody on the lake boated fish that day, but during the stretches when fishing is particularly tuff, guys like Mike really shine.
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Location: Illinois | Now I don't expect a guide to stay out more than ten hours. Eleven, twelve hours I feel fortunate. what you do Mike is crazy but in a good way. I've got lots of respect for a guy who'll devote all that time to a client. Shame on a client who takes advantage of that type of kindness and doesn't leave a nice tip! It's no wonder you are where you are when you work that hard. No knock on guides who "only" do 8-9 hour trips- you guys are busting your butts too!
Mike Witowski | |
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Posts: 444
| For what it's worth I'd consider spending 400$ to fish Muskie with Mike....
Not sure why everyone is so down on Guides, My experiences have always been positive and have resulted in fish in the boat with the guide and afterwards..
I dont see millionare musky guides running around.....compare what the make to your favrorite pro athlete.... | |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | "CM ... so, a $40k gross business income with all the expenses required + a $25k - 30k teaching job is extreme? "
How did you read that into what I posted? Where did I ever say it was extreme or as others have claimed that guides are getting rich? In fact if you care to reread my post you'll see I clearly state I don't think they are overcharging nor are they getting rich. Its amazing how people read what they want into stuff! I also dont think they have it as rough as some would like to make it seem.
On another point, no fuzzy math involved, I was merely pointing out the other side to the whole expenses deal. Anyone who owns and operates their own small business knows about write offs and reducing taxable income as much as possible. They know the advantages to being able to do that. As with most things there are 2 sides to everything! Heck I know guys who live pretty well yet have a taxable income near zero, funny how that works!!
I was more or less playing devils advocate(as I often do) to counter some of this notion on here that guides are some sort of musky martyrs or musky theresa's.
For me it isnt a job I would do at $800 a day, because I would probably be doing LWOP before the end of the first season....just not a "people person"!! But I'm not going to feel sorry for someone that chooses it as an occupation either. | |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | by the way Steve, I do work alot of 7 day weeks. Have to in construction, work when the work is there and save for when it isn't, just one of those things when you choose seasonal employment I guess! I also pay full SS, self employment tax, commercial general liability insurance, insurance on work vehicle/tools&equipment etc. Believe me I know the math involved!
Edited by castmaster 1/8/2008 3:06 PM
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I sure don't want anyone 'feeling sorry' for me when I'm guiding, but I also don't want anyone insinuatuing it's a walk in the park or a great way to make a killing. It's neither.
I choose to make it PART of how I get through my life, and have enjoyed the time on the water provided, made some lifelong friends, and paid a few bills in the process.
Hooper, what the heck are you talking about? If a Guide charges $400.00 and brought to the client what he/she represented the day would bring, then that's it. The opposite of your rather rude comment is more toward reality; if the Guide is doing well, has lots of bookings, and charges $400, or $350, or $500, then the clients must be happy. Hulbert can fish when he wants, and charge what he wants, that's part of the wonder of living in the good old USA. See how that changes if when he's 50 years old, he has a family at home, and Guiding is his only means of earning a living. If Mike likes 17 hour days 6 days a week for a couple hundred dollars, great. I'm too old for that, and I hope too smart. That said, yes, some folks get dawn to dusk. They earned it by being friends first and clients second, if you will. | |
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Posts: 7115
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Dumb question: if guides ARE making a good living (gasp!) working hard to help people to catch fish WHY IS THAT SUCH A BAD THING!!??? NO guides are getting rich doing it, but if they were, GOOD FOR THEM! If they're making a good living, then they're doing something RIGHT! If they charge too much for what they offer, no one will hire them, at in the least their business will suffer. Very few guides do much 'marketing' outside of working shows (which you attend), writing articles (which you read), travelling to give seminars (which they end up paying to get to, for the lodging, and they dont charge much anyways), or posting on the internet (which you read and learn from, FOR FREE I might add). Most of the business they get is through one of the above, or word of mouth. That word of mouth gives them the exposure necessary to even be considered for the major publications, helps to bring in new customers, and creates interest within the clubs to get them hired for seminars. If they do a poor job of entertaining the clients for a day on the water (which can be through fish action, learning, or just FUN. Remember FUN?) then they won't have that positive mojo going through word of mouth marketing.
I'm interested in why everyone gets so nutty about people making money off the muskie fishing business? a. no one is getting rich b. its a business c. no one is making any of you spend that money! People love to yell about people 'exploiting muskies' but these same people you're yelling at are publishing the articles you read, they're taking people fishing (which you like to do, dont ya?), they're helping to create the muskie gear you use. But that's bad?
Why should guides have to undervalue their services? I just dont get it. | |
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Posts: 8865
| Dumb answer for Slamr's dumb question:
Why should a guide get paid to do the same thing we all spend money to do?? We work hard in our jobs, and they go fishing. Plus they get all sorts of free stuff... Free baits, free rods, free reels, nets, boats, trucks, trailers.. On top of it all they get to be on TV sometimes and then they get $350 - $400 a day to go musky fishing? I don't make that kind of money, why should THEY? It just ain't FAIR! All they have to do is fish and bring someone along, maybe let that person use their stuff, big deal! It doesn't take a lot of skilll to be a guide, heck all you need is a boat!
That about sum it up? | |
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| That about sum it up?
well...
the technical term for it is "relative deprivation". no one actually has an objective need to hire a guide, but they want to do so, and wants turn into perceived needs when you see something often that you want but aren't able to get.
my sense is that many people want to hire guides, but some of them are priced out of it, and don't like that fact. seeing guides/clients post pictures of big fish caught just makes it all the worse!
it's no different than seeing the ad for the new trucks on tv every year, or seeing the new boats at the shows every year: it makes you want something that you can't necessarily afford, and that's frustrating.
people who have money to burn and people who are barely getting by can each love muskie fishing just as much; but the people with more disposable income drive up the "demand" and therefore the price a guide can request.
accepting that there are certain things that are financially unavailable (especially things related to our favorite pastimes) is often difficult to accept - it's why America has become an indebted and credit-based society.
notably (and thankfully) in America, "fair" and "same" are not equal terms. we don't all have the same financial situation, but we do all have fair opportunity.
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Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | Slamr,
believe me it isn't just the muskie fishing business, its anytime folks who work for others "buy" something from a self employed person. I heard at least 6 times this summer alone homeowners tell me I'm making out like a bandit and how they should have gotten into the siding "racket" blah blah blah.
The best quote I have heard when it comes to these type of things was from a mechanic when talking about someone complaining about his hourly rate of $50. They had minor work done and when handed the bill said all he did was turn a few bolts. He then told them the rate breakdown went like this... $5 per hour for turning the bolts, $45 an hour for knowing which bolts to turn!
But like the saying goes "The grass is always greener....." | |
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Addict, funny as usual, sir. | |
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Posts: 898
| I don't get this debate. Sounds like certain people are jealous that guides have the cahones to take a chance and make a living off of their passion. For those people, why don't you guide? More guides = more competition = lower prices. Capitalism at its finest. Just don't fish my lakes.
-Chris | |
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| As a full-time guide let me say that some of you guys are WAY off.."78,000 a year"?? Thats crazy! Even if I did make 78,000 a year I would spend most of it on equipment to provide a better experience for my clients.
People are so greedy sometimes..The fact that I can now charge $350.00 a day pales in comparison to all the sacrifices Ive had to make to get to this point. I could list all the people that are partly responsible for helping me but M1st doesnt have enough room on there servers. Its down right ridiculous what I have to put up with sometimes, not to mention what the people around me have to deal with. Any half sane woman would of left years ago but yet my girlfriend has stood by me. Other people havent and Ive lost some very close and personal friends in exchange for my lifestyle. Ive worked 30,40 and even 60 day intervals without a day off..Think about working 40, 12 hour days in a row..I dont care if your a porn star, nobody wants to work like that..Yes, its all self inflicted, but its the price I have to pay to guide full-time..When the seaosn ends I have to update all my stuff for the shows, which isnt cheap and is very time consuming..Booths arent cheap either..This year Im on the road for 26+ days within 3 months doing shows. I am forced to drive a truck, so dont even get me started on gas..I am still semi new to guiding and until I get a solid customer base built up this is what I currently have to do to survive..
On the topic of part-time guides..I know several that I consider to be much better anglers than other full-time guides and are plenty justified in charging whatever they charge..Do your homework and its not to hard to find one or two for your area..
If you guys think that musky guides are bad, look into a full day guided trip for bass in florida..Some guides charge $600+
BTW- Whether or not you have a productive day with your guide is partly the clients responsibility..Ask questions and try to get as much information as possible. I tell all my clients straight up "if you book a trip for the sole purpose of catching musky, you might not get your monies worth" | |
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Posts: 507
| Lots of good discussion here, and it seems to have run it's course.
Guides are businessmen.
Hiring a guide is a "contract" between you and the service provider.
If you don't like the terms and rates they offer, choose something else.
If you like the terms, hire one and enjoy.
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Guide prices