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| Fishing hurts fish.
Scuba diving is really what a lot of muskie fisherman should take up. That way you can appreciate these god-like creatures that need protection. Just swim up to them, and look at them. No need to slam steel hooks into their faces. No need to fight them to the boat, sometimes exhausting them. No need to create scars on their heads and faces when you pull those hooks from their faces. No need to take a picture of them while they are out of the water and therefore starving for oxygen. Buy an underwater camera with the money you accumulate after selling your rods, reels, and lures, and just take pictures.
Really does it matter if you target a fish in September or October or before they spawn? If you hurt that fish, or even kill that fish (through harvest or delayed mortality) in September it will be just as dead as it will be in May, just prior to the spawn. A dead fish is a dead fish be it in September or May. Either way you are hurting god's creatures for fun, and to satisfy some part of your ego that tells you that it is ok to hurt a creature just to say you out-smarted an animal with a brain the size of a pea.
It seems as though more and more muskie fisherman are advocating more and more limiting regulations. Upping size limits, fighting against trolling, wanting to out law single hook sucker rigs, trying to fight against an expanded open season. All of these are efforts to limit the usage of the resource. Why not take it to the next step? You're moving in that direction already: protection of the species.
C&R them, use single barbless hooks, use quicksets versus swallow rigs, do or dont take them out of the water. Does it really matter? By all accounts on this site, other sites and within the muskie community and throughout the muskie's range there is one common thread: hurting muskies is bad. So I ask you, why fish for them when you can appreciate them in their natural setting by snorkeling or scuba diving? No fish get hurt, and you can still appreciate them.
Take that next step and just stop hurting these creatures for your own pleasure and ego satisfaction. Surely you can appreciate them without injurning them, can't you?
John
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Location: So. Illinois | ROFLMAO,
I am laughing so hard I think I am going to hurt myself!!!
BAWHAAAAAAHAAAAAAAHAAAAAAHAAAAA
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'd start beating the crap out of and eating Muskie again before I took it to this level. If I can't abuse a fish with a brain the size of a pea, I guess I'll have to abuse deer. They are bigger and taste better.
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Location: St. Germain, Wi | PETA must be sending out subliminal messages over the airwaves...Jim |
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| Why is this so hard for you to consider? Already within your ranks there are very strong efforts to limit the ability to catch, exploit and "enjoy" these fish! You should not troll, you should not pick fish up from the water for pictures, you should not fight the fish to exhaustion, not fish in the summer when temperatures are high, should not fish for them during the spawn, etc. etc. These efforts are moving muskie fishing into more and more of a protectionist stance already. Why not take that next step. If you truly want to preserve the muskie for future generations why NOT stop fishing and find less pain causing methods. If catching muskies causes them to expire at a rate of 10% mortality by even the most ardent catch and release advocates aren't you running the risk of killing them simply by throwing a lure into the water?
Think about it, even throwing a barbless single hook lure you still run the risk of traumatic brain injury, or that the fish will take the hook all the way into the gills and damage their breathing apparatus. Bringing that fish to the boat even by the quickest possible means can exhaust that fish to the point of death.
Is just appreciating them in their natural environment truly that far a stretch for you who say that you are truly concerned about their well-being? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | john must have read a lot of posts on the boards ... he's well-informed and states the very things supported and argued to the point of hatred.
he is the mirror to much of what musky fishermen are reflecting ...
thanks John for showing it for what it is ....
i'm gonna bake a 34" next year |
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Location: Algonquin, ILL | Interesting BUT!!!!! I do not think that Scuba Diving or Snorkeling in late October would be a very good idea, I'll stick with Rod & Reel thank you
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| Heck...I'd take up scuba diving to appreciate them...and also learn more about their habits to make it easier to catch them!!
Interesting points brought up, though Mr. Thomas...it does bring to light how our passion sometimes overexceeds the actual thing we do.
I think the handling and care of the fish is so strong becasue we enjoy the thrill of the hunt, the challenge to catch one, and the ability to release the fish in the best way possible to do it again. That does not go without risk and I think we all understand that well.
Steve |
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Location: The desert | Actually I think John is onto something here.....here's how it works:
We all go out and get our PADI certification to dive, if you dont already have the certification. Next we all purchase the underwater propulsion units to pull us along, as we all know not all of us are in great shape to swim around for an extended period of time. We all bring our rods under with us and start the first ever underwater musky trolling tactics. Think about it, we all see these cool videos of fish hitting a bait that is being trolled...why not just go down there and see it with our own eyes?
Thanks John for opening our eyes....but until this new 'tactic' takes off I'm going to keep sharpening my hooks and inflicting traumatic brain injuries.....Call me Jeffery Dahmer, but I get a sick and twisted enjoyment out of hooking fish with sharp objects.... |
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| Sled, you need to grill it! My buddies dad keeps a 34-37" each year from their lake and grills it...He says it tastes good...
Scuba diving is something I want to take up and it would be great to dive in their element but JT who are you trying to kid...we are all musky nuts who are never going to give up casting for them...regardless if a few die or get hurt in the process..funny stuff. |
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Location: Racine, Wi | John Thomas - 1/3/2008 10:40 AM
Think about it, even throwing a barbless single hook lure you still run the risk of traumatic brain injury,
As long as I duck fast enough or wear some head gear, I shouldn't have to worry about brain injuries.  |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | I like C&R fishing because it does not kill the target, quite unlike hunting. I never thought 'muskie hunter' described the sport - as I practice it - very well. I don't like the idea of 'hurting' fish, however, I've yet to read or see any evidence that fish percieve pain the way humans or other mammals do.
I think the author has an agenda, but it seems to be based upon an assumption that fish can be 'hurt', in the same way warm blooded mammals can. I would like to see his evidence on fish feeling pain posted. m |
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| Hey John
I know you're just trying to make a point about the "elitist" mentality, because you can't be for real. But just in case, let me make something clear to you that I think sums up the answers you will get from other people:
This is a fishing website. We enjoy fishing, which involves putting sharp hooks into fishes faces. It's an unaviodable consequence of catching them with a fishing rod and lure(s). C&R ethic , no matter how overstated it may be around here, is first and foremost about doing everything we can to ensure that we don't kill muskies unnecessarily in our act of catching them. But we apparently lose you at why that's important. It's important to us because we LIKE catching those fish. We want to be able to catch them again, or have someone ELSE catch them. Yes, it's for the fishes sake, because we do care about them. But I ain't out there to appreciate muskies, I wanna catch the friggin things!
Now as for walleyes, panfish, etc.? It's a little different, because we eat those. And though I don't enjoy killing them, it is a means to an end, and a necessary path to being able to cook and eat them, just like everything else you have ever eaten in your life, 'ya gotta kill it first.
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Posts: 170
| Would this be a "Doubting Thomas"????
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Interesting line of thinking, but it's not accurately potraying why some anglers are becoming "protectionists".
Anglers don't protect fish to save them from being caught, they protect them so thay have fish to catch.
Much like Ducks Unlimited buying up land to ensure there is proper habitat to have good duck numbers.
That is done so they have ducks to hunt, not to look at.
Although every true sportsmen does enjoy and appreciate wildlife for what it is, it's the interaction with them on a "predator" level that motivates conservation among most sportsmen.
JS |
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Posts: 355
Location: Wausau, Wisconsin | John Thomas brings a view to the table that you have to take for what it is worth. We have to be careful of how we interact with each other over regulations and catch and release. We as sportsmen can not publicize this idea that everything we do is harmful. It is counterproductive to the idea of improving resources, recruiting youth and keeping our rights as anglers. John Thomas' view reflects that of PETA and their "fishing hurts" campaign. This threat is very real and it is certainly the responsibility of us and time to promote the good that we do. Some in this industry have a habit of bringing "crisis" to everything because they care but at the same time create this negative overview of our sport.
What is truely important is that each lake has a proper balance of all species, prey and predator, that populations are in check and the year classes are distributed properly. Not every lake can support a bunch of 30 pound plus muskies. Some lakes could use responsible management harvest and some lakes offer the opportunity to increase the upper tier of their muskies to both create balance and offer a sport fishing opportunity that bring tourism dollars that ultimately turn into conservation dollars.
It is why I so commonly get discouraged by the anti-DNR vibes. So often the problem is the money is not there to do the research and so often the money is not there to employ those who will make the right descisions. What we are left with are the politicians that can financially support themselves who are making descisions, not biologists.
Thank you for having emotion and care for muskies, lakes and other animals. At the same time remember that we need to support each other as much as the resource. |
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| John, I think we all enjoy the challenge of catching muskies, and they grow big! That's whats so much more appealing to me over all the other species.
Mr Musky |
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Location: Milwaukee, WI | John,
I've been there & done it. I was PADI certified before I graduated from high school. That was decades ago. Spent many hours below in Lake Geneva, Lk Michigan, and a few others.
You make it sound SO EASY. Just buy the equipment, jump overboard and watch 'em ! Right ?
I don't agree !!!
It is NOT so easy!
These fish aren't everywhere in the water. I say they're just as hard, or harder to find from below, as above, the waterline.
And........many, or most musky waters with high populatioins of fish have POOR VISIBILITY. It tough to see 'em.
What about the buddy system ? There aren't too many diving partners to found these days.
Finally.....& most importantly, I really enjoy THE PROCESS of angling for them. I can & have done it both ways & I PREFER angling.
If I didn't enjoy it.................I would not do it.
But, I cannot argue your point about viewing being less damaging than catching !
VIVA la difference !!!
Chuck |
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Location: Sun Prairie, WI | John Thomas...you're missing the point as to why we C&R, use big nets, take quick pictures, etc. It's so we can KEEP catching them. Yes, we want to protect them, but it's a sport that we enjoy and if conservation tactics weren't used, we would deplete the resource.
Ego? What does that have to do with fishing? It's a sport period.
Why don't you ask the NFL to stop playing football b/c the ball is made from leather and leather comes from (GASP...here it comes!) ANIMALS! How about the leather belt you're wearing...where did that leather come from? Or your shoes for that matter. Ever eat a hamburger?
I take it from what you said that you're a vegan. If you're not, you're a hypocrite down to the core of your soul. I'm not being mean or disrespectful, I'm just stating the facts. You have to walk the walk if you're gonna talk the talk.
If indeed you are a vegan and don't use leather products, etc. I have respect for you in that you practice what you preach. I am in total disagreement with your sentiments, but respect the fact you believe enough in what you are saying by coming into "enemy territory" so to speak and stating your beliefs.
As for me, I'm gonna look for a few 2 pound, 4' baits to throw with a 15' rod next year in hopes of catching a big-arsed musky. (Sarcasm is indeed prevalent in this last sentence!) |
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| all this talk and reference to PETA and the "threat" they pose to our fishing rights only legitimizes what is in reality a radical belief that is very much on the fringe. shouting "the sky is falling" over their efforts to end fishing/hunting is unrealistic and only mongers fear where it's not needed.
xxxx...errrr...i mean "John Thomas" using it in this ironic way is one thing, but let's not respond by having a call to arms to fight PETA's agenda. the best thing to do about them is to ignore them, just like they deserve. don't give them a platform they don't deserve within our own circles.
go out, enjoy your outdoors sport(s), and invite someone new to come along. positive approaches to grow enjoyment of the outdoors such as Angler's Legacy are the right answer.
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Location: WI | What if you can't swim? I guess a glass bottomed boat would be the next step...Tuffy coming up with a new musky boat? |
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| RENEWABLE RESOURCE. |
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| I ain't swimmin in that water, man. There's MUSKIES in there!  |
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Location: Muskegon Michigan | John, John, John, are you a plant from the evil Peta? Or just a guy like me who thinks that this sport has gotton a little too elitest attitude oriented? Lets face it guys If we fish for them we are going to kill some of them. That is why we stock fish, educate fishermen on proper release methods and do everything we can to insure that these Muskies survive to fight another day.
Where we go wrong is when we beat some one up because they took 5 pictures or accidently kill one. Many of us myself included have been far too critical of others who dont measure up to our standard of release ethics. The Musky world is stocking far more fish than are killed every year. Fisheries are popping up all over the country and Canada . There are lakes that need to be harvested and lakes that need release only regs. Its all about common sense to me. I had the pleasure of fishing Fluke Lake in western Ontario in 2006. My wife and caught 104 muskies in 9.5 days. This lake could use some harvest as zero fish were over 40 inches. There are many lakes like this one where we should be eating few. On the other hand there are lakes here in Michigan where Muskies are so rare they should be protected from any harvest at all.
John, I dont think diving is for me. The thrill of the chase, the strikes and battles are all reasons why I choose to fish for Muskies. I let them live because there are not many of them where I am located. If they ever get over populated I would recommend eating some of them to cut numbers back. ( Linders selective harvest). A musky would eat you if it could. They are a cold blooded and calculating killer ,a T-REX of the lake. They have been placed on the chain at a lower level than humans for our consumption and or pleasure. Controlling them is a task that we should embrace and do with science not passion. They do not belong everywhere but are needed in many waters where they do not exist. Another fact to look at is this, they inflict more damage to themselves that we do to them. Look at them after the spawn??? Kingfisher |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I still think I would whack 'em and stack 'em before I went that far. But that's just me. I already know how to dive, and it is uncomfortable for me. I get all wet, and sometimes I get cold. I have to breath thorough a tube, which I hope to never have to do, and look through a mask I have to spit on. I have to wear lead weights to compensate for the fact fat floats. ALOT of lead weights. Then there's that flipper on the feet thing.
I like killing bluegills and crappies. Deer too. Ya have to to eat 'em, and I'm not squeamish about it. I get a tiny bit of a rush out of whacking my eater pike over the head with a custom made bat, too.
It's kind fun vacuum packing up a meal of fish. Some fish die just thinking about that.
The venison breakfast sausage was STELLAR this morning.
There's your dark side, Skywalker. |
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| Laugh. Out. Loud.
Were I feeling any there was any legitimacy in the post I would respond. I don't respond to whackos. |
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| sworrall - 1/3/2008 1:00 PM
...I get a tiny bit of a rush out of whacking my eater pike over the head with a custom made bat, too....
There's your dark side, Skywalker.
Hmmm... I might just have to reconsider that invitation to stay at the hideout. Or at least bring a helmet!  |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | www.youjustdid.com |
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| another trehugging PETA whackjob... |
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Location: Wausau, Wisconsin | Mr. Winther,
While I greatly respect you and enjoy your posts, I have to disagree. While we ignore the "threat" of people publishing youth-based literature that quotes "you're daddy is a murderer", these people are out spending millions of dollars to recruit new hate towards our way of life. I'm not saying we need to burn their buildings down, they are the terrorists, what I propose is that sportsmen shut up, quit bickering back and forth and put forth the same amount of effort recruiting kids into fishing as they do fighting with each other. It is a receipe for disaster and the sky will fall. When you see kids killing each other in school, every kid that comes into Gander Mtn with an adult is a blessing to me. I for one find far more enjoyment of volunteering my time to Angler's Legacy, Kippenberg Creek and Big, Challenge the Outdoors, NWTF Jakes and Brothers Big Sisters then reading the vomit that is leading to malice within our brotherhood.
I'm not rightous, it's just my two cents. It's time of the pendelum to swing.
Hunters are on the decline, fishing will follow. We aren't working hard enough.
Edited by 8inchcrank 1/3/2008 1:39 PM
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Location: Madison, WI | Hey, listen, all I do is pull some baits through the water....its not my fault the fishes mouth get in the way sometimes.
Your fight is with the muskies, I'm merely exercising.
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| John, you forgot to capatalize The Name of God in your first post.
Please show some respect to The One who put the fish in the waters for our enjoyment, be it sport or consumption.
Genesis..."and God created all the creatures of the seas and every moving thing that with the water teems. God saw it was good. God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the waters and the seas." I guess that they were supposed to do that so we could eat them or........"Then God said, Let us make man in our image, and let them rule over the fish of the water and the birds of the air and the creatures of the ground.".... Then after God created man, he established a food chain....."Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. RULE OVER IT AND SUBDUE IT. RULE OVER THE FISH OF THE WATER...." and finally, "I GIVE YOU EVERYTHING ON EARTH AND EVERYTHING IN IT. THEY WILL BE YOURS FOR FOOD. I GIVE YOU ALL THE FISH OF THE WATERS AND ALL THE BIRDS OF THE AIR AND ALL THE CREATURES OF THE LAND AND I GIVE YOU EVERY GREEN PLANT FOR FOOD."
So, John, I will do what God has told me to do.
I will make lures from the trees and I will see that they are good. And I will cast them in the waters and I will use the fish for food, but some I will set free because God didn't tell me to eat every one. And I will catch a fifty incher, and I will give thanks to God, and then I will take a picture of it and let it go, and then I will give more thanks that God created the fish of the waters and told me to rule over them.
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| While I greatly respect you and enjoy your posts, I have to disagree. While we ignore the "threat" of people publishing youth-based literature that quotes "you're daddy is a murderer", these people are out spending millions of dollars to recruit new hate towards our way of life.
and i say let them! the true power of America lies in the free exchange of ideas. i for one am not afraid to let my child someday be exposed to the ideas being presented by PETA. why not? because i'm confident that she'll be much more strongly influenced by her parents, one of whom is me...i think.
actually, Justin, we agree in the main. i believe that rather than wasting our time (and money) trying to "compete" with the anti's for public voice and recognition, it's a better strategy to share outdoor experiences with new people and especially children.
anyone who's actually caught a muskie (or a bass or whatever) and then released it is immediately innoculated against any "it hurts the fish" nonsense. anyone who goes hunting and harvests a duck or a deer for the first time, can immediately know that it's possible to do so with respect for the resource.
experience is more effective than any television ad or flyer could ever be.
you say the exact same thing about getting involved.
Hunters are on the decline, fishing will follow. We aren't working hard enough.
hunting and fishing aren't declining due to any action on the part of the anti's. it's declining due to the erosion of the nuclear family and competition from participation in other things. imho, it's a real problem if we're losing kids to XBox, but not a big problem if we're losing them to soccer. of course, i think there's room in a person's life for all those things, and do share the responsibility in taking new people fishing so they can add it to their list of pastimes.
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Location: The desert | I killed a walleye today.....does that make me a bad person? |
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| I think scuba diving in muskie waters is a good idea, I just don't agree with the ultimate rationale. I actually do take the time to scuba dive in a few of my favorite smaller lake(s) in order to determine and pinpoint structure/bottom content and contours that I think may hold muskie. I do this SIMPLY in order to then return to my boat and catch them the old-fashioned way. For me, catching them/fighting with them is WAY more fun than simply looking at them. And isn't having fun the whole point?
I must say, however, that the advent of high-quality GPS and sonar has reduced the necessity of this practice, but it is still a great way a verifying the presence of a particularly small structure or even the presence of (a) fish/baitfish. |
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Location: Wausau, Wisconsin | Lambeau,
I think there is a ton of logic in both of our responses. Regardless of wording, I think the bottom line is that we want what is best for our youth and we hope that the outdoors will be part of it. Fishing is a great, great sport. Buying tackle, going out, working hard and sticking hooks into the face of a fish, battling it and doing what we choose with it is an amazing experience. I find nothing wrong in harvesting fish for the right reason. I find nothing wrong with safely catching and releasing fish regardless of species, location or time of year. I also agree with Steve, deer are tasty. |
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Location: Sun Prairie, WI | Pointerpride102 - 1/3/2008 3:13 PM
I killed a walleye today.....does that make me a bad person?
YES!!! But only cuz I'm jealous & wish I was there too!
Edited by gtp888 1/3/2008 3:50 PM
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Location: Kronenwetter, WI | Most of us are NOT evolved beyond our ancestral past to have completely outgrown the urge to physically conquer something or someone.
Brain-stem issue really.
Neanderthal? Admittedly.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | lambeau,
The Dad who has to take the kid to soccer, hockey, basketball, and baseball can't go fishing. No wonder soccer Moms and dads are so emotionally wrapped up in their kid's successes and failures.
Cowboyhannah,
That sir, is a fact. I know how I feel when I pull the trigger on a Buck out at 195, and drop him in his tracks...primal. Even more so when the arrow hits dead center kill zone and the deer keels over in 15 yards. And, I immediately think about the ground venison.....guess the grocery store just never seemed like a place to harvest my meals for the most part. Oh well, I'm a lost cause and a throwback.
Beav, yup. |
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| John, in the old testament is states all life other than human life has no soul and are there as the soul purpose for human enjoyment.
I can hear the carrots cry as i cook them... |
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Location: Owatonna,MN | Steve,
I agree with the deer harvest scenario. But... know whats even better? When you have a 14 year old son that feels the same way!!! I then know I have raised him right and he gets it. He arrowed his second whitetail this fall and is pumped up for next year.
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Location: Wisconsin | It has been proven that fish do not feel pain. They simply do not have that part of their brain to process pain. So, to the PETA people, STOP KILLING CATS!!! PETA kills more animals than most humane societies. PETA also sponsors terrorists organizations such as ALF. However, they do get the word out and it hurts us because sometimes it doesn't look pretty to kill animals. (But it sure was freakin' pretty seeing my arrow go through that deer's heart a couple of weeks ago...)
Anyway, Hunters and fishermen(women) care more about wildlife than any PETA person could ever. They are actually out there supporting stocking, C&R, Ducks Unlimited, Muskies Inc, Trout Unlimited, and many more that make sure the habitat is there. PETA has never once gone out and bought a pond to make sure ducks have a place to rest on the way south. Us hunters and fishermen are caretakers of the resource (although some of us could do better....).
So, as the poster said, yes it is beautiful to go out and watch fish in their environment, and as someone who pays to have those fish there, I will sample that resource and enjoy it.
Ask yourself, what have you done for the animals except blow hot air?????
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Posts: 999
| I cannot believe I read this post from John on here at first I thought it was some kind of joke but now I see that it is serious...... What's up with these tree huggers these days!!! Wow I cant believe something like this is showing up on our muskie boards........... Okay now who's going where for the southern opener? What's the best reel for DCG's? Nightmare just how was your tenderlion and lobster?
Mr Musky |
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Location: Stevens Point, Wi. | I think Mr Thomas should rethink what would hurt more.
The sight of a bunch of overweight 'fishermen' dressed in skin tight rubber clothes, with over sized feet, and one large eye peering at them, would likely cause irreparable damage to the muskie psyche. I doubt if there's enough shrinks in the weedbed to ease the mental anguish that we would inflict upon them.
Given the choice, I think they would take the occasional hook in the jaw!
And it's only January
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| I think his point is worth consideration. I suspect that if humans ever break out of the dark ages, more and more folks will migrate toward not harming other critters unless necessary. |
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| i think that by this point people should realize that "John Thomas" is actually someone using irony to make a point about the dangers of taking "fish first" attitudes to an unhealthy extreme...
perhaps he's trying to warn us against muskie "releaselitism"???
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Location: oswego, il | I don't know, the idea of scube diving to view them sounds like a cool way to look at the recource. I personally would like to setup a scuba outing on the petenwell flowage. I bet there are some big bruisers on them deep river edges. Anyone want to go? |
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Location: Wausau, Wisconsin | I'm poor, so I snorkel. It's a ton of fun and an annual birthday trip for Sarah and I up north. Take an ice fishing combo, it does wonders.
Heaven is just like earth, without the 'winter'net.
Chickens are just like people, except they're chickens. |
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| John
start a scuba first website , I will keep Musky fishing and releasing and taking pics , thanks
Tony |
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Location: Madison, WI | I had to hit a walleye in the head with the butt of my fillet knife the other day. It was still quivery as I filleted it, it's going to taste delicious! I love fresh walleye! |
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Location: The desert | I killed two more walleyes today....is there any hope for forgiveness for me? |
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Location: Land of the Musky | I snorkle in Waconia but that is to find where the buggers are hidding. I have my scuba cert and will go in 2008 to see some other areas of the lake. Again, so I can see what they are up to and where the big girls are laying.
JAmes
PS-Eat dolfins, they taste better than tuna... |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | John Thomas, Ill attempt to really address your question. #1 Muskies in some areas are rare and there is real need to bring them back as far as numbers. They eat trash fish and many exotics as well. The funny thing is that the only group of people who want to see them back are Musky fishermen. We are the ones who are getting these fish returned to natural habitat and restocking fished out lakes where spearing and over harvest decimated populations.
You say we are becoming a protection oriented group. Yes to some extent you are right on the money. Raising size limits keeps adult spawners in the water to keep populations stable . Anything wrong with that? Encouraging C.P.R. has been one of the best tools to bring this fish back of all. We are protecting our investment get it? No one else in entire world gives #*^@ about the musky except for the Musky fisherman. We know how to keep our sport strong and are doing a great job of it. Numbers of big fish all across the Muskies range are way up because of the things you mentioned. But I dont buy into it all. It is just a fish after all and if one gets whacked I dont get to concerned because there have been 100 stocked to replace it. What I dont ever want to see is this pansy B.S. hooks hurt crap that is spewed by groups like PETA instilled in my grandson. God gave us dominion over fish and animals to use them as we see fit. They are food and recreation end of story.
I recently watched the H.B.O movie about the woman who founded P.E.T.A. I was shocked at what she believes. I have never seen a more double standard take on life in anyone. I cant believe people actually follow her lead. #1 She states we are all just animals but then denies the predator. Its ok for a wolf to hunt down a baby deer and rip its throat out and start eating it before its dead. But its not ok for a man to harvest a deer humanely with a rifle. If we are all animals who is the hurtfull killer? She claims to not believe in God but used his name twice in the movie and mentioned heaven once as well in a speech. You cant have it both ways lady. She stated that when she dies she wants people to barbecue her body and eat her. UUUGGGG!!!! That is as sick as Manson in my book. She calls these statements shock tactics . I call them rantings of a lunatic. This woman is a genuine nut house case and should be confined and treated . To care about animals is one thing but to go to the extremes that these insane nit wits go to is way over the top. P.E.T.A. would be a great organization if they just concentrated on reaching out to abused pets. Providing shelters and finding homes for unwanted puppies and such. They dont even do that. In fact during the film she kills a dog with lethal injection because it has heartworm rather than spend the money(and she has millions) to treat the dog and nurse it back to health.
The plain fact about Peta is that they are a front for the anti gun movement. Bill Mar ( talk show host) Liberal gun hater is one of P.E.T.A.S board members. Much of thier monies come from anti gun lobbies that hang around Washington.
So in closing this post Ill say this to you all. Dont take these nuts for granted. They are a well funded bunch of liars that are really after our guns and dont care squat about your neighbors dog or your deer steaks. I think the founder did at one time but has gone over the edge and others like Bill Mar are now pushing them to help go for our guns. Kingfisher |
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Posts: 62
Location: chicago | John, I am a rescue diver with the CFD. RESCUE TWO. I would much rather throw a lure to a fish than recover a dead bloated body that will explode the minute I try to bag it. Get alife and go to a PETA site. |
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Posts: 3918
| "What's up with these tree huggers these days!!! Wow I cant believe something like this is showing up on our muskie boards..........."
About 8 years ago, in a thread focused on proper CPR tactics to minimize fish injury, I posted something along the lines of "Say, do you think that eventually we'll respect the fish so much we'll stop hooking them at all?". I received a much friendlier set of responses than Mr. Thomas, but of course I wasn't challenging folks to change their values, beliefs and behavior. I was just rolling the idea around in my noggin, thinking out loud of one possible future. Many responses asked if I was indirectly introducing the whole PETA thing at that time, too.
I've boated mabey 120 muskies since then and have never once felt I was doing harm. I shot a few deer since then, too. I also learned about PETA, enough to recognize these folks are working against my right/priveldge to hunt and fish.
I respectfully disagree that some God gave us dominion over all other life forms. But I totally agree that I should be able to DECIDE FOR MYSELF the manner in which I'll demonstrate my respect for our natural world and the bounty it offers. And outfits like PETA, hypocits who shake their finger under my nose with one hand while they take another bite of steak with the other, can kiss my....
(to music) ASSSSSSSk me no more questions and I'll tell you no more lies,
Forcing your values on me is turd-like, drawing only flies.
Your self-righteous, hypocritic jabbering is filling both my ears,
please shut your mouth and do something useful, like hand me two cold beers.
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| What exactly is "releaselitism"?
Sounds a lot like something "No More Muskies" or one of those other wacko anti-fishing groups would come up with. |
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| Yeah. Not sure what releaselitism is or who you are pointing at but we smell the sarcasm. not sure that will do any good either. Making fun of the people who release ALL of the muskies they catch makes you sound like an idiot. I agree with most of your stuff but you are obviously poking fun at a specigfic group of which I belong. I will NEVER kill a fish on purpose for my EGO. If that makes me an advocate of releaselitism then i am proud to be one. If you have a problem with it, not sure i would lose any sleep over that.
Let them ALL swim
Brian Maxey |
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| Yeah. Not sure what releaselitism is or who you are pointing at but we smell the sarcasm. not sure that will do any good either. Making fun of the people who release ALL of the muskies they catch makes you sound like an idiot. I agree with most of your stuff but you are obviously poking fun at a specific group of which I belong. I will NEVER kill a fish on purpose for my EGO. If that makes me an advocate of releaselitism then i am proud to be one. If you have a problem with it, not sure i would lose any sleep over that.
it's not directed at anyone or any group in particular, Maxey. what group do you belong to that you think i'm talking about?
i've released every muskie i've ever caught, so i'm sure not making of people who choose to do that. i also advocate 100% catch-and-release and i take the time to educate anyone who shares my boat about doing the same. talk to some of my friends and family who have changed their views on it as a result. i'm out there just like you and many many others who are building on the legacy of release laid down by those who came before us.
since i made the word up, i guess i get to define it, right? basically, i take issue with anyone who uses tactics of shaming or defaming someone who legally chooses to harvest a fish. it happens on the internet (usually from anonymous guest posters), and it happens in person at boat landings. instead of sharing the release message with someone a la "next time please consider..." they swear and curse at the person. "releaselitism" is being so closed-minded about release issues that you start attacking other people instead of trying to change their mind. it's counterproductive, creates more enemies to the cause than friends, and has been known to ruin a good experience for someone who didn't know better and was simply obeying the law.
the release effort is noble and right, but it's a good caution to keep in mind that adopting such extreme/elitist views that it becomes ok to publicly denigrate others does more harm than good. when that happens, who is it really that looks like the idiots?
rather than attacking someone who does a legal thing, imho it's much more productive to win people over through education and by working to increase the legal limits where biologically appropriate.
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| Many of us have issues.
I (and I'm sure others) have issues with Muskie fishermen who intentionally flock to newly discovered or newly developed or newly redeveloped Muskie fisherys expressly to get one to mount or in some cases to get many to mount.
I also have issues with the apologists for this "get mine while the getting is good" mentality and justify and defend this behavior by playing the "legal right" card.
I also have issues with individuals that demand absolute irrefutable biological evidence for any proactive change knowing full well that the lack of money and time to develope this irrefutable evidence will in reality stop this positive change dead in it's tracks.
I have issues with being labeled as an elitist or a PETA member for promoting and practicing total release when I view the ultimate elitism as intentionally killing a healthy Muskie so the skin can be painted and put on a wall and no one will ever have the chance to catch that fish again.
Steve Voigt
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Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Many, in fact a large number of people here, feel much the same as you, but are able to express those ideas and beliefs without all the vitriol.
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| sigh.
why must issues be black or white, right vs wrong?
there should always be room for complexity because reality is complex!
it's a bad day when any of us stop listening to suggestions from within our own ranks about how to "win friends and influence others". shouting down dissenting voices within our own community and reasonable conversation about the issues is something that is very unhelpful, and won't happen on this site. there's room for many voices here and many perspectives.
i attend the spring hearings in my county and i talk to people about each of the muskie-related issues that are presented. i've found many many people out there who genuinely don't understand the issues and are initially inclined to vote against motions to raise limits, etc. it's not that they're "meat-hunters", they're just not interested in muskies enough to know any different and they've never had anyone take the time to actually talk to them about the issues. i make sure that i take the time to do so whenever i have the opportunity. oddly, this seems to work better than calling them names...
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Take that next step!