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Location: The desert | How did it go? | |
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| I just talked to Rick Lax, and he said Tom Betka did an awesome job with the presentation................ | |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Tom obviously spent a ton of time on this presentation. It was excellent, a real eye opener, particularly with the VHS info. Thanks Tom.
I was a little disappointed that nobody from the WDNR was there to take this in. | |
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| I just wanted to say, WOW! Awesome job Tom!
cant wait to see the presentation uploaded so everyone can see it
Got to run for now, just wanted to drop a quick word to say thanks to everyone!
I am still in awe of how today went.
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Location: Wausau, Wisconsin | I will do my best to have it on my site tomorrow night. My tripod was broke so my footage is horrible (and I'm not Sloan), but I'll do the best with what I have.
I thought this meeting was an awesome representation of how much musky anglers care about their sport. In addition I believe a lot of people deserve an applause for their work. There was some very good information on VHS. I think there needs to be a concious effort by us to use this information to make a change rather than tossing it out the window now. Be it the responsibility of all of us to send emails to who need to hear our voice. Who has these names?
Thanks everyone! | |
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Location: Appleton | I would like to first thank Tom for all the hours he must have spent gathering and processing all that information. I know I'm much more informed on the threat of VHS now than I was before his presentation. I would like to also send a big thank you to Pete, Justin, Lee, Dale, and any others that traveled great distances to help this cause. I respect that all of you would show up in support of this effort. I'm hoping that today we did something for the better in the case of the GB muskies and all other musky fisheries. Tom I'm sure you have all the contact info from those in the DNR. Could you please post that info. so those of us that feel the need could drop them a line. Thanks again to all involved. | |
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Location: WI | Knowing first hand what Tom was up against in his information gathering makes it all the more impressive. And I will be the first one from the "cult of silence" to throw myself under the bus on this.
But Tom respected our wishes, knowing it was going to be an uphill battle, and I for one feel terrible about this, sorry Tom. I know we made your work that much harder, but I think as an end result I think it turned out that much better, and Tom has EARNED my respect because of this.
Rick Lax's mounts blew me away today, and I know I wasnt the only one, I look forward to people getting to see his work at the shows this year. The best I have ever seen!
Justin, cant wait to see it! Thanks for coming out and doing that.
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Location: Yahara River Chain | I concur with the above comments. Its clear that Tom did a tremendous job of gathering what limited information that is out there. He presented it with clarity and great insight and understanding.
Tom, it was great to finally me you (as well as many others) and get see many that I have not seen in some time.
Gerard | |
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Location: Appleton | I would have to agree with Shane, Rick's mounts were something special. | |
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Location: The desert | Sounds like the meeting went real well. Way to go Tom, sounds like the powerpoint was a big hit.....but I might have already knew it was going to be....  | |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Thanks for all the kind words guys--glad you enjoyed the presentation. I certainly enjoyed giving it. Here are some contacts:
General DNR staff directory page:
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/staffdir/PersonnelListing.asp?ReturnSear...
Green Bay Area Biologist David Rowe:
[email protected]
Area Fisheries Manager (David's boss) Mike Donofrio:
[email protected]
Regional Fisheries Manager (Mike's boss) George Boronow:
[email protected]
Wisconsin Musky Management Team Leader Tim Simonson:
[email protected]
The Big Kahuna when it comes to Fisheries... Mike Staggs
[email protected]
And finally, the Big Kahuna when it comes to the entire DNR... Matt Frank
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/aboutdnr/secretary/
Wisconsin State Senator website:
http://www.legis.state.wi.us/w3asp/contact/legislatorslist.aspx?hou...
Wisconsin State Representatives website:
http://www.legis.wisconsin.gov/w3asp/contact/legislatorslist.aspx?h...
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Posts: 40
| In my opinion the afternoon was a huge success. Tom did a phenomenal job and the turn out was great. It was a pleasure talking with everyone as well as seeing Tilky’s reaction to his reproduction. My wife also enjoyed finally putting faces to the many names she’s been corresponding with via e-mail. 
Overall very informative, a fantastic turn-out and worth the 3 hour drive.
Rick Lax
Lax Reproductions
www.laxreproductions.com
Attachments
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 GB 1.jpg (27KB - 163 downloads)
GB 4.jpg (33KB - 152 downloads)
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Thanks Rick--and thank you for driving down, and for all of your support for MI and the Titletown functions.
And that reminds me...OH MY GOD were those mounts gorgeous! Tilky's fish is unbelievable, and I absolutely fell in love with the 53" replica mounted in the same fashion. I cannot believe how realistic those fish look!
But it was also nice to meet your family. By the way--great movie...you definitely need to check it out!
TB | |
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| Excellent Job Tom! You did an excellent presentation! I thought the Trolling vs. Casting deal was going to ugly but thank god it didn't! Also, Thanks to Pete,Greg,Russ,Dale,Shane, and everybody else that spoke.
I seen a quick 10 second deal on the Channel 2 news this morning and that was it. I recorded the Channel 5 news last nite at 6 and 10 and 8 this morning and so far they haven't showed anything on us. Maybe tonite. Also does anybody know if Ryan Dempsey's fish is being displayed anywhere? I cannot get over the size of that cow! What a tank! I'd love to show other's if it is displayed somewhere.
Thanks Again!
Mr Musky
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| Mr Musky, Ryans personal one, (the one we had there), he is actually in the process of re building his bar downstairs to incorporate the fish. So thats the only place you will see that one. But I think there are a couple more of that fish out there, as I have seen Joe using it in his booth before, and I believe Eric Hattaja who was with Ryan when he caught it, also uses Ryans fish at some shows.
Ryan called me when he got back to town this afternoon. He was actually a little disappointed on how the mount turned out. The repo is actually a couple inches shorter than his fish was, and a smaller than actual girth.
But Joe didnt have anything close as far as a mold so he did the best he could.
And after I told him about Rick Lax's fish yesterday he said he will be in touch with Rick soon about getting another one done. | |
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| Thanks Shane.
I just cant even begin to imagine hooking into something like that! That is truly a special fish! Just another reason why the size limit increase is so important! Just think in another 5 years from now what it's going to be like! I cant wait!
Mr Musky | |
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| Mr Musky, His bar wont be finished for awhile, I am going to talk to him about letting us use it again before it goes into its permanent resting place. Perhaps in one of the upcoming educational seminars we are trying to plan, I will be sure to let you know if this happens.
I really hope he gives Lax a crack at doing it. I dont want to turn this into another Lax,/ Fittante argument, as I really love both of their work. I recommended Fittante to Ryan when he caught the fish. But think about how much of a different fish a 48 is compared to a 50. And once you start talking Mid 50" fish, the difference is magnified that much more. A few inches is a world of difference at that point.
You said it all with "Just think in another 5 years from now what it's going to be like! I cant wait!"
you want to talk a world of difference in fish, a 50 to a 54, thats why we have been so passionate on this issue. To think of what the bay could become if a few more fish were left to grow, it would be a lot better opportunity for others to experience what it is like to catch a fish of that magnitude.
Dead fish dont grow!
Now that the 29th is behind us, doesnt mean its time to let up. We need to keep attacking this issue with even more energy. The real work is just beginning,"again". I hope everyone takes the time to send and email off to the people Tom had listed.
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| Forgot to add, the Dempsey fish repo measures 54" the girth is pretty close. So for those who were there to see it, that is what a Green Bay 54" could look like. | |
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| Shane (or anyone?)...With regards to sending e-mails to the contacts listed above, are there any "hot buttons" that should be emphasized, or just a "general support" type response?
Any particular contact person who can "do something" or would this be a shotgun approach to all of them?
Thanx,,,
I wasn't in Green Bay, but sure wanted to be...as a matter of fact, have yet to fish the bay, but will this year...poking around looking for casting spots. I like looking for those needles in them big haystacks | |
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| Here is Ryans email to me the day after he caught it, thought some people might get a kick out of it.
Shane,
Hope everything is well in Arizona. Hopefully you found some muskies to chase down there. I just thought I let you know. Remember the million dollar fish you said was in the Fox river.... Well I caught it! Sun. night at fiveoclock she hit a #18 Rapala being retreived over a 10ft shelf off the main river channel. The musky calculator says it should weigh 78.5 lbs. I believe it too. Both my arms to hoist it up. 56" 33.5 girth The taxidermist says there isn't a form big enough to mount it by 3.5 " on the girth. Custom job he said $$$ oh well. Will be worth it Musky season wasn't open as you know so back she went. I havn't shown anyone these pictures yet. Was out of town since I caught it, and is now just sinking in. I really want you to see this fish. Who knows, it might just be enough for you to move back. Ha Ha I'm not going to go public with this fish until well after the musky opener. I thank you for what you taught me, I owe ya a beer if you ever get back this way. -Sincerely Ryan | |
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| Very impressive E mail to say the least, I can imagine when you got it, you were like sure, I bet you did! Ryan and Eric took great pics so I am in no way under estimating the size of that freakin hog!!! I'd also like to know how many other's have been caught that size but we have not heard of. Then again, there's no need to hear. We know their there!! If your going to our musky club banquet in February maybe that would be a good place to take that fish. Or the New London Show.
Mr Musky | |
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| Jim, Justin Gaiche will have the video up on his website, as soon as its done we will make sure to get some links to it, and Tom will also have the complete powerpoint presentation uploaded soon too, I think once the people who could not be there get to see it, will really get the ball rolling again.
As far as the emails, I would like to differ this to someone with a little better handling of the prose. My best advice would be to speak from the heart. After seeing the presentation, I am sure everyone will be able to find their own words.
Ryans fish was caught casting. It truely is a caster paradise once you put the puzzle together. I think I mentioned this yesterday, but in a typical year down there I cast 90% or more of the time. Most of the people fishing the River targeting musky are very new to it, its BIG water, its going to take people awhile to learn it and trolling is a great tool to cover large areas of new water, you will see more and more casting in the future. Thats why I have to laugh at the suggestions that catching them trolling is easier, I consider myself a fair troller, done alot of it out there, but all of my best days out there have come casting.
Mr Musky, I can say, yes. I do know of other fish that have been caught that were as big or bigger than Ryans fish. This is what I meant when I said we made Toms job that much tougher. You will never see or hear of these fish. The guys who catch them are guys who are as tight lipped as they come, as they are not in it for anything. There is a small group of guys who have been fishing muskies out there much longer than anyone thinks. Through the years there have been some awesome fish caught out there every so often. There was one of these guys there yesterday that I know who caught a "barred" 57, of similar dimensions, 5-6 years before Ryan caught his. Look at FUSE's fish that was caught right before Ryan caught his that year That was another Monster that wasnt mentioned. It was really Fuse's fish and Ryans fish that really started bringing attention to the River.
Both of these guys have become top notch musky fishermen, but at the time were both mainly walleye guys. both have since told me they really wish they would not have put those fish "out there". both have put a bunch of big fish in the boat since then, but they learned from their experiences. In my perfect world I wish more people would also learn from these experiences. Here is part of a post by Reef Hawg from Petes board thats makes more sense than I think I could.
"Catching 50+" fish on Green Bay is not a startling revolation of 2007. Been going on for a fair spell now(better than 7 years for the spots, and 10-15+ for the greenies), just not alot of attention to it till now. Of course the fishing has gotten better and better, but posting photo after photo of 50" Muskies from Green Bay on Internationnally read websites, will not lessen the chance for even more exploitation and fish being killed. Long story short. When you guys get on the hot bites next summer(as several other quiet types have), on other areas of the bay... keep that to yourselves or your own group. Don't let the killers in on it. They read these sites and look at pics for info on wheres, whens and hows. They could care less about our sharing for educational purposes along with our grandstanding for size limits. Bottom line, catch a monster next summer on some reef complex out there, enjoy it and maybe decide not to share with the world and keep the cat on a leash for just a spell longer."
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| Forgot part of the Reef Hawg post here is some more.
"While I have not been fishing there nearly as long as you or some, I also hate the Johnny come real lately, hypocritical mentality, that posting reports about every big fish catch on anmy website they can find, really cannot do any harm, and won't be detrimental, in some way, to each of our fishing there. Then toss arms up in disgust when pressure arrives and some fish are kept due to their very own foolish exploitive ways. I know it is fun to catch big fish and be proud of it, and sharing is a big part of it. However, big fish are rare as a whole anywhere and when the pics are shared with the nation the day of or after the catch, it doesn't take long for people from all over to come help catch the next one.... Just be aware of that."
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| Reef Hawg could have not said it any better! I've been musky fishing for quite sometime, live in Appleton and I never gave the Green Bay fishery even a hint of thought until reading the spring walleye reports that one day when Ryan's fish was posted. I would have never thought these needle in the haystack fish were actually catchable! Little did I know at that time. So in regards to the post that Shane shared with us about Reef Hawgs post, I agree one hundred percent if you care about the fish and if you get onto something hot, there's no need to share it with the world unless you enjoy fishing with lots and lots of company!! The most enjoyable part of musky fishing to me is figuring the pattern out. How rewarding is it after all the time and effort to capitalize on something you thought of and tried and the been successful!!! Pretty darn sweet in my boat!!
Mr Musky | |
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Location: Green Bay | Just wanted to say thanks to all who helped organize the meeting and especially to those who put in the extra hours of work to make such an awesome presentation. I know i left with a greater awareness of VHS and the problems we face. I ran into Senator Cowles after the meeting at a local store, and talked with him for a few minutes. He seems to have a genuine interest in helping us achieve our goals. He did bring up a valid point that he wished he would have brought up at the meeting. He thinks that we should have more of a uniformed or a single goal in what we really want. He thinks we should either push hard for the 54" limit OR the catch-n-release moratorium. If we present two options , maybe we confuse people or cause them to be more passive. If we present ourselves as wanting the CNR we could always "fall back" on the 54" limit if it fails. Just a thought....i think there is some merit to it but would like to know what others think.
I agree with Shane that this momentum needs to continue and will continue to voice my concerns with the people that Tom provided. Every little bit helps! | |
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| Sounds like things people making great leaps!! Good job. I've fished the river since 2000 and have never posted a picture but have noticed that a greater number of people post fish from GB than anywhere else i've seen. Even diehard fisherman. I never understood that but to each his own.
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| Mr Musky, I will talk to Jomusky, I know we were looking for speakers for the upcoming year, maybe Ryan could come down and speak at one of the meetings. Otherwise I will check and see if we can use it maybe at the banquet. I just hate moving that thing around, it is very heavy, and awkward.
And I was already going to talk to him about getting a booth at the New London Show so that is a possibility as well.
Gillyman, I do know what you are saying with the single goal in mind, but in my opinion, I think the presentation was geared more towards getting the information out there, then let the DNR make a decision as to what would be best for the fishery as a whole. with the recent info that Tom has put together regarding VHS personally I would hope, especially at the stage of this reestablishment I would think the moratorium is a no brainer in my eyes, at least for a couple years untill we can see what the full effects of VHS are going to be. But I would like the DNR to make that decision, not me.
I will be sending Sen. Cowles a thank you message, I hope others do as well.
One last thing I wanted to say, I have heard a bit of talk on "why dont we just buy ourselves a politician like they did for the early season they backdoored on us?"
Bad Idea! The precedent that was set there is one I will not support. In fact if it did start down the dark path you are going to see skid marks leaving as far as my voice goes.
This is not how to get things done, and I for one would hate to stoop to that level. I still want to be able to sleep at night.
We can do this, and I know its not easy, and is a very long, very frustrating process. As Russ addressed at the meeting, dont give up on the process, the hearings, the conservation congress. Instead, lets try and assist these entities. Instead of blasting them and trying to figure out ways around them. | |
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Location: Yahara River Chain | Shane Mason - 12/31/2007 7:48 AM
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One last thing I wanted to say, I have heard a bit of talk on "why dont we just buy ourselves a politician like they did for the early season they backdoored on us?"
Shane, I know I said that a few times last Saturday at the meeting, but I did so as a joke. It just boggles my mind that we pay good wages to highly educated personal and then we have some representative that feels he knows better that those guys do. It just froths me that it happened that way and in the tourism committee no less.
I too agree with the moratorium on the Fox/Lower Bay just because of the uncertainty of VHS. It if get as bad as it did out east, then it should be shut down to harvest till we can figure out what we have out there.
I gave Tom my card with an invite to come to Madison if he should ever want to present that proposal to the NRB. I hope we can do that or at least give it a try and be proactive on this rather reactive on this issue.
Gerard
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Gentlemen,
Great job, Tom. I'll get the entire presentation archived here as soon as is possible; the sheer size of it will not allow me to simply post the information as a PDF.
It's the 'information age' now, gents, and decrying the fact it's here won't solve anything. Emails, cell phones with instant pictures sent out immediately, and all the electronic communication advances out there make it so. To 'blame' the communications medium out there is akin to blaming over the history of Muskie angling word of mouth, newspapers, radio, TV, magazines, and finally...the Internet. Bay of Green Bay wasn't going to stay a secret anyway, witness Wabigoon and Lac Seul, Sabaskong and Minaki. Those waters were pretty much empty when I first tried fishing there, yet through In Fisherman, Newspapers (that's how I found out about Minaki when the only way there was a gravel road) and Muskies Inc.; the single most conservation oriented group of Muskie anglers out there, the word spread and the anglers arrived. A new segment should be added to the saying, "Don't shoot the messenger." to include "or the means by which the messenger arrived." Interesting that efforts to actually DO something to expand conservation measures are so concentrated to the very same medium.
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Location: Green Bay, WI | I have to agree with Shane about the process. People want something done right now and with the way things went last year with the 54" proposal of course people are frustrated. We have to stay vigilant work within the system given us and keep plugging away. Its the only way. There are no short cuts.
I applaud the guys who got up there and talked on Saturday. Especially Tom great job. I look forward to working with these guys in the future.
Jay Zahn
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Location: WI | Gerard, I agree, and it was not just you, and it has been whispered about for a few weeks, And I know it may have been said in Jest, at least from you. It was a pleasure to meet you in our brief walk to the bathroom. You are someone I have a high amount of respect for, and I know many here share those thoughts, but we all know that sometimes things said as a joke, are not taken that way by everyone. But thats why I thought it needed to killed before it grew wings.
I would love to accept your invitation, and I hope the Good Doctor (Tom) will also.
I would also like to extend an invitation to you as well, it would be an honor if you would consider coming up and sharing a boat with us for a day next year.
Jay, I also forgot to thank you for all your hard work. Those in the know, are very much aware how much you have helped through this whole issue, and it does not go un noticed.
Steve, I realize this is a different age than what you, I and many others were raised in. And I realize this is the information age, but I would like to think people should realize there is a "choice", just ask Ryan and Fuse if they had the chioce today would they still share it with the world.
I also realize it is in your personal best interest to encourage the sharing and flow of information, that is a choice. And its great that there is a site like this and a few others where guys can come and learn.
I dont want it to seem like we do not help people out there. I have helped MANY get their start on Green Bay, and will continue to do so to the best of my ability. But there is a line I will not cross, but that is my "choice"
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| Shane do you have an e mail address? The one on the post didn't work.
Mr Musky | |
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Location: WI | [email protected]
715-850-0573
Phone rings 24/7
I am a bit slow to get to some emails at times, I am buried right now but I will get to them all.
I also corrected the profile email
Edited by Shane Mason 12/31/2007 10:50 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Shane,
Some folks would like to pretend that the word would not have spread by rumor alone; that in my opinion is water-over-the-dam 'wishful thinking'. And to then use the same media blamed for the problem to attempt to solve the problem I find a bit ironic, just an observation. It also seems ironic that some folks who use the 'net to promote Guiding, Tackle, or other businesses then decry it's use for other information exchange, especially when it's a fishing destination they would like to keep 'secret'.
I don't post every fish caught or locations either, of course that's a personal choice. I was observing that the fox was in the Green Bay hen house already and has been for a couple years. There was an excellent presentation at the recent Muskie Symposium by Kevin Kapuscinski we videotaped and posted quite a while ago.
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/play_flash.asp?clip=482
Alot of work went into and is going into the effort to preserve the trophy fishery there by precious few folks; that's something I would like to throw MuskieFIRST's full support to. | |
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Location: WI | Steve, I guess we just had a bit of a misunderstanding, because I do agree with what much of what I think you are trying to say.
Yes I do guide.
No I do not guide the Bay, never have, most likely never will. I have friends that do guide the Bay, thats their choice and I will support my friends even if it means its not in my best interest. And also continue to share information with them. Even though its not in my best interest.
As far as promoting, I would like anyone to show me anywhere where I have ever promoted my guide service online. I have a different philosophy than most when it comes to promotion. Word of mouth, that is the best way to promote. If someone wants to fish with me, they will find me.
As far as promoting baits, the baits I promote are from friends of mine, but I will never promote something I dont 100% believe in, that would not be in friends best interest in the long run. I have been very successful in doing things my way so I dont see a need to change, and trust me even friends whos baits I promote have pictures of fish that I have caught on their baits that they have never put online. Not because I asked them not to, but they know why those dont see the light of day. But they also make good enough baits they dont need to put every pic caught on their baits. If I catch a fish on their baits I usually send the picture out of gratitude for building such an awesome bait. Roger has a picture of my heaviest inland freak slob caught on a nitro from an 8 fish "day of the giants" I had a few years back. All 8 caught on a nitro (thanks Roger)
I usually get the first or one of the first of all of Rogers prototypes, you guys havent seen anything yet. And he has some of the top guns in the musky world promoting his stuff. But I consider it an honor that he would select me as his field tester/tweaker. But I would like to think there is a reason for that other than the fact we are friends. Dude makes an awesome bait plain and simple. That is why I promote his stuff. As well as George from Beast Teaser, also one of the nicest guys I have ever had the pleasure of knowing.
I just wanted to get this out there, it may help give people a better understanding of me. And my personal motivations here I think this snippet of a post on Petes board regarding this issue say it best, sorry if some of this has been repeated.
"I dont guide on the bay. Never have. most likely never will. My time out there is for hanging out with my friends that I dont get a chance to spend much time with during the summer. I do guide, but only on inland waters and I dont ever see that changing. I could make more money if I did. Since I am down there anyway, but its not about the money, or even about the fishing. My favorite part of each day is usually back at the landing where we all stand around packing up and we all have a beer and tell our stories before heading out for the night. Its the one time of year many of my buddies are all in the same place at the same time.
I am in constant awe of how many great people I have met and that I am friends with because of a fish.
This is not what I would consider a "selfish" endeavor. I dont plan on having kids, my line stops at me. I have every reason to not voice my opinion. To go with the flow. Most of the effects of our actions this year wont be felt for a few years down the road. Why should I care?
I would say its mainly for all those great friends and their kids and grandkids. We have a chance to do it right for them.
I bring nothing to the table on this matter other than extensive knowledge on the Fox River and Green Bay from a fishermans viewpoint. And through the years I made a few mistakes that have contributed enough in getting the cat thrown under the bus. But I also have a chance to help make things right. So instead of sitting around doing nothing, because I can just as well do that too. However since I have a credible voice on the matter I have decided to use it. But its not for me."
Shane Mason
Edited by Shane Mason 12/31/2007 12:40 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I was not referring to you personally, sorry if it seemed that way.
It's a general comment from several folks I see frequently, and it just flies in the face of reality, IMHO.
So what's the next step, and how can we help? | |
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Location: WI | Steve Worrall - 12/31/2007 12:41 PM
I was not referring to you personally, sorry if it seemed that way.
It's a general comment from several folks I see frequently, and it just flies in the face of reality, IMHO.
So what's the next step, and how can we help?
Thank you Steve. I know exactally what you are saying, now, lol!
And I echo your thoughts on that, but hey, you said it before, this is a different age and its just something we got to live with. The posers arent hard to spot and will usually end up exposing their hypocrisy's for what they are.
I know you by reputation only, I know we share many of the same friends, and I have always respected your "voice" even on the occasions I disagree with what is said.
I think that may be the most important thing to come out of this issue
We are starting to do less fighting amongst each other. As we have seen musky as a sport grow, and with its many growing pains that have been involved. But I really do see this as a turning point in Wisconsin as far as attitudes. I think the time is finally here where we can do some good, for the better of the sport. I have been floored on the amount of support this issue has received. and its just in its infancy imo.
What we can do when we put "all of our voices" together, put aside our personal differences for the betterment of our beloved sport. I think that time has finally arrived for Wisconsin, and we owe alot of it to this board as well as Petes.
One of my new favorite pictures is the one of Pete and Tilky, man snuggling
on the first page.
For those that dont know Tilky is part owner of Roberts Outdoors, (Joe Bucher stuff) and Pete " Mr Musky Maina. These two put their egos aside and filmed a show together this fall. I wish to see more of this in the future, guys putting aside their personal agendas and putting that energy towards the "greater good".
As far as where do we go from here, good question. I am new to this, so I would like to differ this to someone with a better "voice" in this regard.
Steve I know you are no stranger to taking on stuff like this, what are your thoughts? | |
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| been wanting to get on here but my brother came up to snowmobile so i had to entertain guests since i arrived back from the meeting.
I was absolutely floored by the support we got on this. Excellent job by all.Especially the good dr. tom betka. i was very proud of how it went. the info put in my mind and the overall impression that we can do something and will if we work together. i also agree with shane , this is the tip of the iceburg of what we can accomplish if we put our minds and support together.
i had a phone call back in nov. from the dr. after being very mad about the proposal being shut down by the great lakes committee.the good dr. and i talked for about 45 min. he assured me he was working on some things to get somethinbg done. and boy did he.
again way to go my friend.
and all who helped with the meeting. lets now keep the ball rolling.
dannyboy
dannyboys guide service
musky crazy
laona,wi
715-674-2061
[email protected]
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Posts: 89
| Hey guys, I have to say the meeting was very enjoyable(I may have enjoyed it a bit too much). It was great rallying the troops! I'm very happy to have had the opportunity to meet with everyone, Shane Mason, Pete Maina, Rick Lax, Tilky, Jeff Wallace, Jeremy VanErt, George Crum, Justin Gaiche, Jeremy Fusek, and everyone else(I'm missing many names) it was a pleasure to have a beer with you all.
At the meeting I attempted to address the point of educating new anglers, unfortunately I was just kinda thrown up there and was very unprepared(not to mention I may have had a couple too many beers in me, oops!). Education is going to be one of the biggest factors to the future of this fishery. If fish are improperly handled when they are 45 inches they will not make it to 50 inches or hopefully 54 inches. We have all seen the guys out there with the little green walleye nets, letting the fish bounce around the bottom of the boat for five minutes.
I would like to ask for everyones help in order to put together some signs to post at all of the Green Bay boat landings. I'm considering two separate signs, one about proper release methods and another about why we should release these fish. If any of you would like to give me some input on either sign please add your ideas here or email me at [email protected]. I will pay to put the signs up and contact the Brown County Parks Department to get them posted. Anyone who wants to donate money to these signs please contact me. Also I plan on putting together a presentation in the near future so I am a bit more prepared when it comes to speaking about catch and release methods.
Happy New Year Everyone!
Brett Jolly
www.wisconsinanglingadventures.com
[email protected]
Edited by BJolly 12/31/2007 8:06 PM
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| I badly wanted to get to the meeting but a funeral kept me away.
What is the status of 54" for the Bay? I authored Manitowoc County and have a more than passing interest in this getting on the CC ballot. Is there a plan of action to get this done?
I was not aware of the suggestion for a C&R moratorium. Is that the new focus over the 54"?
Are the videos posted or viewable yet?
Thanks
Rob Howe
[email protected] | |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Rob,
The 54" resolution is basically dead, as far as the Conservation Congress goes--it was defeated in committee (Great Lakes Committee) back in September. So right now, all we can do is wait until February's meeting of the Wisconsin Muskellunge Management Team, to see if they pick it up from the DNR side of things. If not, then we will have to go through the CC again this spring. But the other option (and it is an immediate option, at that) is to go straight to the NRB with an emergency resolution. That could obviously happen before the WMMT meeting in February, if that is what is decided, but there is no guarantee that it would be received favorably, of course.
I forwarded the PowerPoint presentation to Steve Worrall a couple days ago, and so he is working on getting the file converted and uploaded to the site. But I don't know what the status of the video is, to be honest.
TB | |
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| I sure hope they didn't raise the minimun length to 50". 99% of the fish will never reach that length. They will be dead of natural causes first. This 50" stuff is just for those who want to turn everything into a [...] contest. Now they want to do the same with musky fishing. You want to stop the catch of "too many" big fish....then stop the motor trolling.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Big Ones, that is an argument that doesn't stand up to the facts, including the fact the size limit on Green Bay is already 50". This proposal requests a 54" limit and a moratorium on any harvest until enough study on the Bay can be completed to indicate the actual overall health of the trophy Muskie fishery and it's potential.
Please watch the video from the recent Muskie Symposium:
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/play_flash.asp?clip=482
This '50" stuff' is about protecting Wisconsin's (and Ontario's, and Minnesota's, and other trophy waters) fragile status as trophy Muskie destinations, and in light of the fact this water is probably subject to VHS infection and other threats VHS represents and in light of adjustments in the management strategies by our DNR (wider perspective including waters like Pelican Lake in Oneida County), perhaps the very future of a viable muskie population.
The insinuation that the attempted and successful conservation measures and actions are otherwise motivated indicates a lack of understanding, please study the details of the proposal and the History of the reintroduction of a solid muskie population in the Bay and read the documents out there about current and future muskie management plans in place in Wisconsin since about 1998.
No one is suggesting stopping the 'catching' of 'too many big fish', the idea is to curtail the HARVEST of too many big fish. There's precedent for management adjustments like this; witness Wabigoon and Lac Suel in Ontario. Both are now success stories in a big way. | |
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Location: The desert | Isnt it the goal to catch big fish? I guess I've been fishing the wrong way for years now....wish I would have gotten the memo!
Without quality regulation, we cant have quality fish. Keep up the good work guys! Tom you know how to reach me, I have a lot of free time this month of January if you need me to help out with anything, dont hesitate to ask! | |
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| Thanks Tom for carrying the torch and doing a great presentation by the sounds of it. Let me know if our FRV Chapter 39 club can help your club in any way.
Steve | |
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Posts: 272
| tcbetka - 1/1/2008 7:12 PM
The 54" resolution is basically dead........ But the other option (and it is an immediate option, at that) is to go straight to the NRB with an emergency resolution. That could obviously happen before the WMMT meeting in February, if that is what is decided, but there is no guarantee that it would be received favorably, of course.
TB
So, I guess I'm missing what the next step actually IS. The 54" resolution sure looked promising but it imploded....and now this NRB thing, which Tom makes sound like it could be a long shot.
Tom, Jay, Titletown et al, and others involved with Saturday's meeting.......kudos to you. Getting the ball rolling is the first step. I wasn't able to attend the meeting, but after speaking with a couple folks who did, I guess I was expecting to hear some sort of a 1, 2, 3....-step plan to come from it, like I asked Tom about on an earlier thread. Maybe its there and I am not reading between the lines for it. If so, please forgive.
I guess my question is: what IS the plan and how do I (we) each roll up our sleeves and do our part? I'm eager to help, I'm just not sure how/where to direct a message.
What's next and where do we stand now?
-Eric | |
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| Like I said 99% of those muskies will be dead of natural causes before they reach 50 inches, and they want to raise the size limit to 54".....it is BS. Just a bunch of guys who could not make the H.S sports team and want to turn fishing into a competition.
Then this nonsense about protecting the resource....pure rubbish. How are you protecting anything? Please explain the reproductive difference between a 50" muskie and a 54" muskie. You want to protect the resource then make motor trolling for muskie illegal. Then a guy will have to work for his fish, but you will never see it happen . Guys don't want to get all the gear to fish musky and then they can only keep a 54" fish.
You price the average Joe out of even trying to fish musky. You guys are as bad as those TQM deer hunting guys....let it go so it can grow nonsense........it will be dead before it is trophy size.
Not to mention 50" is the fish of a lifetime to 99,9% of the guys on the water.  | |
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Location: WI | Bob Smith?
thats the best you could come up with?
I will not dignify that post with a response, if you are not man enough to at least include your REAL name in your post. If you insist on remaining anonymous, feel free to use contact me using email or phone number I provided a few posts back and we can talk. | |
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Location: WI | Nah, screw it, I'll bite.
And again with the deer argument, how many 25 year old deer do we see running around. If you are going to compare something, you might want to use something remotely relative.
And again with the trolling, well it wouldnt hurt me that much if trolling were eliminated or even restricted. On a personal level, I would like to see a line restriction per boat at least. For safety reasons more than anything else.
In fact I find every sentence in your post complete nonsense. And I am sure you will get enough responses pointing that out. When someone like you jumps in with a doozie like that, I think you only help the cause.
And the attacks on this as a sport, I realize I might have put on a couple since H.S. but I was a 3 sport athlete all my life. My sports career was cut short by a stray bullet to the leg. And I would consider many of the guys I fish with much better athletes than me. And have been fortunate enough to have fished with a few professional athletes, and they have asked "how do we do this all day everyday?" when they are taking 15 minute breaks every 2 hours.
What else you got? | |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Eric,
IF we elect to proceed in this fashion, the plan would be something like this:
1) Request an emergency moratorium this month.
2) Await the results of the WMMT meeting in February.
3) Reapproach the CC with another size limit increase resolution in April, if nothing has been resolved by that time.
The goal here would be to at least get some sort of a resolution to the level of the NRB, because it didn't make it that far last time--largely because there were questions asked by the GLC that were not adequately addressed at their committee meeting in September. I have spoken to some of the GLC members over the past month and can assure you that they now know the answers to the questions and concerns they expressed 3 months ago. And as such, I strongly believe that the outcome of another GLC meeting would be quite different and (at the very least) this matter would be forwarded to the Natural Resources Board.
But I have to caution everyone that just because a resolution gets proposed in several counties within the state, and then gets voted through to the CC...doesn't mean that it automatically makes it to the level of the NRB. The matter MUST have merit to make it out of the CC committee and get forwarded to the state level. Now I certainly believe that this matter has merit, and hopefully when my presentation is published here most folks will feel the same (if they don't already). But the fact remains that the various CC committees get bombarded with so many resolutions and CC business, that they really need to hear their concerns addressed when they vote on an issue. And at last September's meeting of the GLC there were concerns expressed by the DNR liason, but they were not answered to the satisfaction of the GLC members--and thus the matter failed.
Believe me when I say that I have spoken AT LENGTH to a couple of the members, and two of them attended the meeting this past weekend. Both of them have told me that my presentation has helped to shed light on this issue. So you'll have to trust me when I tell you that I understand what went wrong before, and I believe I know how to correct it--and in fact I feel that we are well on our way to getting it corrected. But this is a process, and it takes time. Thus we have to keep doing our homework, crossing the T's & dotting our I's, and keep the faith.
But whatever way the wind blows here, we *must* ramp up our efforts to educate anglers on the value of C&R, and we must also establish a system whereby we can support the on-going process of data collection within the system. A moratorium or an increased size limit is not the magic bullet here--these things are only a start. We need to be working with the local DNR Fisheries personnel in any way possible--whether this means volunteering for creel survey duties, furnishing boats & manpower for on-the-water work when asked, or undertaking fund-raising activities to support research activities (such as I discuss in the presentation) to benefit the long-term health of the fishery. We need to prove to them that this isn't just about getting a larger size limit put in place--it's about the overall long-term health of the musky fishery. And that depends upon many things...not just a further-limited harvest.
But it can happen, and it will happen...if we simply stay focused and keep at it. It's not an "Us vs. the DNR" type of a thing, and we cannot make it about that.
TB
Edited by tcbetka 1/2/2008 7:09 AM
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Location: Yahara River Chain | Big Ones - 1/2/2008 1:54 AM
Like I said 99% of those muskies will be dead of natural causes before they reach 50 inches, (
I'd like to know what study was done to determine this? It just sounds to me like you are pulling these numbers out of thin air. I may understand that 1/2 the population might not reach 50 (meaning the males), but I think a few may. Most of the females should reach the 50 inch mark if not harvested prior to reaching that.
So Big Ones please cite where you got this information for me please. If you are indeed correct then I am against the 54" size rule as well. If you can't, then I suggest you change your handle to Fast Ones. | |
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Posts: 272
| Thanks, Tom. Please keep us all posted and let everyone know what we can do, where to be and how we can help.
Maybe MIst and/or Titletown can get some sort of a link or an anchored post going with contact names, numbers and what "our" message is and the proper PR angle to take...the right words/phrases to use, etc. I think getting the message out and letting our voices be heard is of the utmost importance....but 1000 messengers with different messages being delivered maybe isn't the best????
I know names and numbers have been posted about a few things, but the post itself tends to get buried in the thread....and then eventually the thread gets buried, making that info hard to dig up again. My dad worked about 30' from Kevin Kapuscinski (sp?) before Kevin left. Dad has since retired, but I know several of the folks in that office and I guess I can start with some conversations there.
On a different note.....will somebody please nuke "big ones?" He/She is just going to get us all bickering amongst ourselves and have everyone venting on off-topic items. This is a person just trying to stir the pot, or they'd have started a new thread.
Thanks,
Eric Young
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Thanks Eric,
A few people have emailed about seeing a copy of the presentation, but I know that Steve was having a bit of trouble getting it uploaded in the correct form. So I burned a copy to PDF and posted it here:
EDIT: LINK REMOVED--SEE BELOW
...until Steve can get it uploaded to this site. Please have a look at it, and advise me whether or not the font looks OK on your screen. The font I chose worked well for the live presentation, but it may need to be changed again for an internet presentation. This can be easily done if need be. So have a look and post back here if you would.
Thanks!
TB
EDIT: I should warn you in advance that it's just over 3MB in size--so be careful if you have a dial-up modem. But I just verified the link and it does work...it simply takes a bit of time to download it.
Edited by tcbetka 1/2/2008 5:34 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Let's keep in mind folks like Big Ones may actually not understand muskie management in even a rudimentary form, and allow a voice (within reason) to those who might disagree. Big Ones needs to pay a little more attention to the word 'reason', but let's answer concerns and questions with facts and data.
Tom, we hope to have the article up today, Zach is very busy. it's on the list, sir.
Big Ones:
1) You are addressing a very large core group of Muskie anglers when you post here. First and foremost, we have strict posting permissions. No more rude rhetoric, please.
2) '99% of the muskies won't reach 50"' is a pretty broad statement. If that were true in a strict sense, no one would be catching ANY fish 50" or larger. Study what happens to a year class from inception to 15 years of age and what numbers are left, and perhaps you will get a clearer picture of what these folks are trying to do.
3) If a 50" or 54" limit ' prices most anglers out of fishing Muskie, why is it the resorts and campgrounds on the Trophy lakes of Ontario are packed with Muskie anglers, and many of those from Wisconsin? In actual fact, data shows that when a 50" limit or more is placed on a body of water, muskie fishermen pay MORE attention to that water, not less. Ontario set the bar in managing muskie waters with true trophy potential as they do, this proposal asks that our WIDNR and the anglers and sportsmen and women in this State look at the huge overall success Ontario has had with the 54" regulations.
3) Unfriendly comments will not work here. High School sports has nothing to do with the debate. Offer facts and data to argue your point; rude and immaterial commentary like that will get you nowhere. This is not a QDM Deer Management issue either; you cannot compare the two in even an oblique manner.
4) Trolling for many species of fish on the Great Lakes is a tradition that the Sportsmen and Women in this state value deeply. It isn't at all likely or remotely reasonable to expect that trolling would be banned. I think you offer that argument because you have no other, show me I am incorrect.
5) 50" might be a fish of a lifetime for many anglers, but in the world of Muskie angling, many feel that considering the low density of muskies present, and the even lower density of large muskies, that quality fish can and should be released so ANOTHER angler can CPR her. A Reproduction can be created of that fish and hung on the wall, so the memory and bragging rights are intact. You can't seriously encourage anyone eat a Muskie that old out of that water, the negative impact on one's health alone would dissuade most from even thinking about it.
6) Did you watch that video I asked you to take a look at?
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Location: Green Bay, WI | No problem Steve... I will take that link out as soon as it's on this site, as it's better hosted here anyway. We appreciate all that you (and MF) have done to help in this matter.
By the way--please have a look at the copy I posted and let me know if you think the font should be changed. I could do that today and email you a new copy of the presentation, so Zac would only have to post it once.
Thanks!
TB
Edited by tcbetka 1/2/2008 8:55 AM
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| Big Ones - 1/2/2008 1:54 AM
Like I said 99% of those muskies will be dead of natural causes before they reach 50 inches, and they want to raise the size limit to 54".....it is BS. Just a bunch of guys who could not make the H.S sports team and want to turn fishing into a competition.
Then this nonsense about protecting the resource....pure rubbish. How are you protecting anything? Please explain the reproductive difference between a 50" muskie and a 54" muskie. You want to protect the resource then make motor trolling for muskie illegal. Then a guy will have to work for his fish, but you will never see it happen . Guys don't want to get all the gear to fish musky and then they can only keep a 54" fish.
You price the average Joe out of even trying to fish musky. You guys are as bad as those TQM deer hunting guys....let it go so it can grow nonsense........it will be dead before it is trophy size.
Not to mention 50" is the fish of a lifetime to 99,9% of the guys on the water. :(
You just illustrated perfectly why a 54" size limit would help protect the fishery, do you realize that? If it's really only 1% that survive to 50", doesn't it make sense to protect those fish from harvest? You are right, a 50" fish is a fish of a lifetime to most anglers. All the more reason why you should release it, don't you think? So someone ELSE can catch a fish of a lifetime, too?
And this:
"Guys don't want to get all the gear to fish musky and then they can only keep a 54" fish. "
That's why nobody ever fishes for muskies on those lakes that have high size limits, right? Like Eagle Lake for example, nobody wants to fish it now because they have a 54" size limit?
If that's really true, than why is there ANY support for this proposal? | |
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| Why is the DNR not stocking because of VHS when they have their own brood stock? | |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | OK, the PDF of the entire presentation is up and archived on the OutdoorsFIRST Server. Look here for the complete document:
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/articles/01.02.2008/1277/Green.Bay....
Guest,
I'm not sure what you mean by that question.
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Location: Yahara River Chain | Guest - 1/2/2008 1:09 PM
Why is the DNR not stocking because of VHS when they have their own brood stock?
Currently the WDNR only has Fox River/Green Bay muskies as brood stock and that area has been found to have VHS earlier this year. The WDNR does not want to take a chance of contaminating any of the hatcheries with VHS. If that happens the hatchery will not be able to be use until it is disinfected and that could take two years to get it all and have it deemed safe.
Long Lake is not longer a brood stock lake as there are very few if any left in there.
Edited by muskie! nut 1/2/2008 4:29 PM
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Thanks Steve and Zach... It looks great!
I removed the link to the copy I posted. And on behalf of the GBMC, thanks again to MuskieFIRST for all the support in the recent weeks!
TB
Wow...the hypertext link even works. Zach is a magician!
Edited by tcbetka 1/2/2008 6:06 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Tom,
We should be able to get the audio track from the meeting up very soon, which will allow interested parties to follow using the PDF. I think that should work great, thanks to Justin Gaiche's hard work to get the recording and the Badfish Boys' Mr. Sloan's expertise. | |
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| This is great, people get the info, nobody sees my horrible camera work. Just picked up a new tripod, I'm ready for the next meeting. Big thanks to Jason for working on the production part. I know it was time consuming for him with his bad back and sick computer. | |
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| Shane,
What is the difference between someone posting a large fish on the internet verses someone else saying they know of a person who caugth a 57" fish. Maybe you should respect there decision to keep it private. | |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | This thread was WAAAAY back in the archived pages from December, W. You brought it forward to argue that saying that one knows of a large fish caught is the same as posting the picture and the name of the fortunate angler?
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