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Posts: 156
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | This is a mixed bag of questions but similar in the musky technique.
Has anybody found out about the plastic being used on the newer dawgs? And newer Suzy Suckers? Is the same plastic being used on all the different sizes? I love these baits as do most of us but the quality was down. I think from other posts "Made in China" that is or was a whole other debate which I don't want to get into. Just wondering about the plastic? Any better? I did see the forum on suzy with the made in USA logo, but all the sizes?
Secondly I do not have a big bait rod for 08, and I mean gigantic bait rod. This season I used my st. croix classic cat rod, and maina big bait rod for the large stuff but hook sets were tough. Lost some big fish boat side on the 13" suzy this fall and all the fish t boned the bait. Just couldn't embedd the hooks right. I like fig rigs the best (have a couple) and noticed a web page was selling a new xxx tooth tamer rod from fig rig, anybody have it, used it? Have held the xxxx st. croix premier but it is a pool cue in my mind, and heavy. The bulldawg rods are fantastic especially the blank on the 4-16 oz 8 footer (held at a store this weekend), but I hate the long foregrip! I never hold my rod there while retrieving or fighting a fish. Plus I can't afford a custom rod this time of year. The dream rod would be the 8' classic cat/premier handle(cork size-length) with the bulldawg rod blank! SWEET!
Please help the shows will start soon!!! and I need some advice because a musky show is not time on the water.
Edited by needa70lber 12/4/2007 10:02 PM
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Posts: 1636
| I used an 8'6 MI Bulldawg rod and I fell in love. Forget about getting tired reeling in double 10's, because that rod mades them feel like a beetle spin. |
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Posts: 2112
Location: The Sportsman, home, or out on the water | I spoke with Brad from Musky Innovations at a recent retailers show. He is WELL aware that the plastic was too soft in last years batch. He is working with the molders every day, to try and come up with an exact formula.
Problem is, is that Soft equals more action, harder equals less action, in any soft plastic bait.
On thing you need to do, is to check every soft plastic bait you threw after every day. Small tears will continue to tear, if not repaired, no matter the brand. Melt or Superglue imperfections. If you do not keep up on maintenance, your bait will fail.
All soft plastics by every MFG have their time and place.
As far as rod selection, with the exceptions of the 6" suzy or a spring dawg, I will not throw any soft plastic, unless it is with my Trophy Technologies Super Mag rod.
Untill you have thrown a soft plastic (or Double ten lure, Like Gerry Carroll's "Gerry's Girls"), you have no idea how effortless these baits are to cast (Gerry's Girls are to retrieve). I understand that St. Croix is also coming out with their answer to this rod.
Soft plastics are by far, the most versitle lure in your box, no matter the MFG. Paddle tail, Curly, whatever. Slow-crawl on reef tops, jig off the bottom, or Smoke them in over weeds at a blistering pace, plastics should always be part of your trip.
If you have any other questions, please feel free to e-mail me at:
[email protected]
Pm me, or call me at:920-843-1744
Take care,
Edited by muskynightmare 12/4/2007 11:19 PM
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Posts: 156
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | How is the balance with that long foregrip, I just don't like it, or would use it. Nice rod when I held it at the store. Last year at the shows I never gave'em a look because of the foregrip, and didn't think the quality would be good also too many people in the area. Can't really feel how good a rod is at the shows. Been fishing st. croix and figs, hard to beat for the money, the new shimano compre's are good too. I also like a longer handle. I guess I may get one but real curious about the new fig rig xxx. Thanks for the insight reelwise. |
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Posts: 1636
| It felt a little strange at first, but I got use to it. Why not give the 8'6' Maina rod a try. I think i may get one. I with Shimano had an 8'6 with the Compre line. Those are my favorite rods.
"I spoke with Brad from Musky Innovations at a recent retailers show. He is WELL aware that the plastic was too soft in last years batch. He is working with the molders every day, to try and come up with an exact formula."
Arent Bulldawgs made in China? |
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Posts: 156
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Concerning dawgs of today, if I buy a couple in Janurary at Harper college will the plastic be similar to the first mag dawg I bought which has two single hooks and 2 treble hooks, can't remember how long ago you made them that way, but in all honesty that bait has not ripped once nor the weight has not come out of the nose. I almost want to retire her because of that fact. but still want to use it for that fact, because all the new ones get lit up just from casting not even from a fish being caught. |
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Posts: 156
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | The 8'6" maina is too soft, similar to the classic cat and big bait rod. MI and fig rig will certainly be at top of my list. |
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Posts: 156
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | not sure off hand. Throw 10" hughey's, shakers, smuttleys with 6'10" model no problem. unless cold conditions go to classic cat or maina because of mixed blank. Problem is large dawgs and suzy because they really sink their teeth in em, hard to set hook.
Edited by needa70lber 12/5/2007 12:06 AM
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Posts: 358
Location: London, England | What about the st croix 7'9" xxxxxh? Heard a lot about it last show season, but not much since. Has it been a hit or a miss? |
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Posts: 2112
Location: The Sportsman, home, or out on the water | Yes, Dawgs are being molded in China.
The balance on the Trophy Tech rods is good.
We had one returned to the shop that "Broke on the cast"(we hear that excuse alot, with every brand). We decided to torture test the rest of the rod. We stepped on the tip, and bent the rod to 90 degrees before it snapped. I propped the rod up on a steel bar a foot off of the floor and stomped HARD on the rod near the first eye closest to the handle, 3 times before it broke. Unbelievably tough rod! |
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Posts: 267
Location: Ft. Wayne, Indiana | I bought one of the bulldawg rods this fall and i will not throw mid size to large plastics on antything else, I also used this rod for double cowgirls as well. My grandpa has the XXXH St. Croix, and I really thought it was way to stiff. |
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| nightmare, I call bs on your theory that soft plastics have more action than hard...seems to me my curly sue's are quite a bit harder than the dawgs of today with just as much action and my old dawgs that are harder have every bit of action and fish enticing ability of new dawgs...and it wasn't just "last years batch" of dawgs...anyone who has been buying dawgs knows it wasn't just last years batch ...try about the last 3...I hope Brad fixes it...this has been hashed out in another thread on here months ago...
As for rods to throw the big baits..friends of mine really like the Tica 8'6" ex heavy...
also Keith at Pro Edge can make you a great rod to throw the big stuff as well...
If you aren't throwing pounders or 13" curly sue's I highly recommend the 9' custom diamondback from Keith at Pro Edge. |
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | The ONLY exception to the hard soft rule is the crap injected molded dawgs they did for a while. These were very hard, but what made them worse was that they took away the end of the tail, that big hunk of rubber at the end of the tail that helps give it movement even at VERY slow speeds (like on the pause and dropping). These very hard, crappy tail baits do have a lot less action.
With that said, like BN said, you can still go a LOT harder on the plastic and still have the same action on the dawgs.
Cory |
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| yah the dawgs with that circular tail and not the "thumper" type tail realllllly sucked...good thing they didn't last long.... |
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Posts: 2089
| Frank from Frank's Custom Rods built me a Big Rubber Rod from a Saltwater blank. Plenty of flex in the tip and then.....POW! Very powerful, but a soft enough tip to load the rod. His e-mail is [email protected]. Great guy building great sticks.He has a few other options as well. Steve |
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Posts: 1088
Location: Hayward, WI | I got one of the Fig Rig XXXH rods this fall and I really do not care for it. IMO it is way out of balance, I put 3oz of weight on the butt and it is still front heavy. I think that it needs a longer butt also, it just seems short. Not sure what I am going to try for next year.... |
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Posts: 697
Location: Minnetonka | Suzy Suckers are using a different, more rigid plastic. I'm a big fan... the tails don't cast off, you can melt them back successfully when they get ripped up... and they put more fish in the boat than Dawgs for me this year. I'll use 'em until Musky Innovations "gets their formula right"... they're worth the extra couple bucks.
Big bait rod: ExHvy 9' St. Croix Tournament Series A.K.A. "The Big Dog"
Go big or go home. |
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Posts: 156
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | kjgmh - 12/5/2007 12:57 PM
I got one of the Fig Rig XXXH rods this fall and I really do not care for it. IMO it is way out of balance, I put 3oz of weight on the butt and it is still front heavy. I think that it needs a longer butt also, it just seems short. Not sure what I am going to try for next year....
Tooth tamer? fuji components? |
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| Tica X heavy 8'6" Nothing else, with a 7000 a breeze.
Welf |
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | At the PI outing, I threw some big stuff w/ lambeau's Okuma 8'6" telescoping XH. It seemed to handle it quite well. It's a tremendous value too.
S. |
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Posts: 1088
Location: Hayward, WI | needa70lber - 12/5/2007 6:23 PM
kjgmh - 12/5/2007 12:57 PM
I got one of the Fig Rig XXXH rods this fall and I really do not care for it. IMO it is way out of balance, I put 3oz of weight on the butt and it is still front heavy. I think that it needs a longer butt also, it just seems short. Not sure what I am going to try for next year....
Tooth tamer? fuji components?
I am not sure all it says on it is Fig Rig xxxh Line wt 100lb lure weight 6-20oz. |
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Posts: 156
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | reel seat, where the cap goes over reel it should say fuji, the guides on the back side attached to the rod should say fuji, very small print. a tooth tamer logo should be on there too.
you may have their heavy trolling glass rod? which I think is an extreme not tooth tamer.
Edited by needa70lber 12/6/2007 7:54 PM
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Posts: 156
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Will Tica and Okuma, sounds like "The Lion King" intro, be at Harper College and have rods to buy, not just look at, how about a pool demo with a 50" Remote Control Submarine Robotic Musky so I can see the hook sets with these rods on a 13" suzy sucker. |
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Posts: 299
Location: Ontario, California | As of right now... the only Musky show Okuma will have a booth at will be the Milwaukee Musky Expo February 8-10. |
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Posts: 1237
Location: South Portsmouth, KY | I have an 8'6 Musky Innovations Super Mag rod and its ok. It seems a little bit heavy and stiff when you get some weight on the end. Its made for throwing the pounder but the pounder actually seems a little to heavy for this rod and difficult to cast. The 8 foot version of this rod might have better balance than my 8'6 cause mine seems kinda of end heavy due to the length. |
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Location: The Sportsman, home, or out on the water | bn - 12/5/2007 8:41 AM
nightmare, I call bs on your theory that soft plastics have more action than hard...seems to me my curly sue's are quite a bit harder than the dawgs of today with just as much action and my old dawgs that are harder have every bit of action and fish enticing ability of new dawgs...and it wasn't just "last years batch" of dawgs...anyone who has been buying dawgs knows it wasn't just last years batch ...try about the last 3...I hope Brad fixes it...this has been hashed out in another thread on here months ago...
As for rods to throw the big baits..friends of mine really like the Tica 8'6" ex heavy...
also Keith at Pro Edge can make you a great rod to throw the big stuff as well...
If you aren't throwing pounders or 13" curly sue's I highly recommend the 9' custom diamondback from Keith at Pro Edge.
BN,
Do not call "BS" on anyone, unless you are a registered member, or post your real name.
Paddle tails catch more water than a curly tail.
It may have been a few years on MI. Who's counting? if you do, your more @n@l then some.
Here is a quote from the Best Plastic guy in the biz:
"Unfortunately the plastic on some of these baits was a little too hard and this is what the problem is. It’s a fine line between making soft plastic baits with lots of action that will last. I have softened the plastic just a tiny bit now to make sure this sort of thing does not happen. You can either send the baits back to me for replacement of if you take a craft knife and trim the tail root on both sides (make it thinner for about an inch+ from the paddle tail.) this will solve the problem.
Sorry about this.
Andy"
Before you jump on anyone, please contact me, Andy, and or Brad directly, so that we can contact you directly.
Soft plastic's biggest abuser,
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Posts: 2378
| I think we all know who BN is, he just wasn't logged in |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | I do not like my 8'6' Tica for throwing double 10's, the tip is to soft which leads to fatigue. After hearing good things about these rods I was very disappointed in it.
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| on the really heavy stuff i've been using both an Okuma 8'6" Ex Hvy and an 8'4" Edge series XHvy from Professional Edge.
both rods have the power to throw 13" plastics, but they're different rods from an application point of view.
the Okuma has what i'd describe as "moderate" action, it loads up through more of the rod and if you're a bit more patient when you're casting this means less fatigue over time when throwing the big stuff. you're tossing the lure with this rod, not whipping it, and i find that this allowed me to make longer casts. the action of the rod is idea for swimbaits such as the Suzy Sucker, and also provides a nice softer touch when working pull baits such as 10" suicks or crankbaits.
http://www.okumafishingteam.com/rods/conventional/evxspecialty.html
Okuma will have a booth at the Milwaukee Expo, and i'm sure the rods will be available at all the shows through the major retail stores.
the Edge series rod by Professional Edge is a very strong power rod with a pretty fast action to the tip. this rod is great for casting and ripping heavy plastics such as the Curly Sue. the stiffness of the rod meant slightly shorter casts for me, but you can really lay into even very heavy baits when working them back to the boat, and powering baits through the figure-8 at boatside is a breeze. i've got a Pro Edge XHvy Diamondback as well, and find that the Edge series XHvy actually handles the 13" plastics more easily.
http://www.proedgefishing.com/rods_edge_m.asp
Keith will have a booth at the Chicago show, and quite possibly at the Madison Expo.
both of these rods come in at reasonable prices ($109 for the Okuma, $169 for a custom built Edge). when throwing baits that are as heavy as the big plastics get, especially in the fall, i'd rather be using one of these rods than worry about one of my expensive custom Diamondbacks getting overloaded. they do the job nicely for a price that most people can afford.
as for the Musky Innovations Bulldawg rods? you won't see one in my boat because they're manufactured by Trophy Technologies. Trophy Tech's business practices have been questionable and their in-your-face sales approach really annoyed many people at the winter shows. ask yourself why you won't be seeing their booth at many major muskie shows this winter (although other retailers may have the Bulldawg rods available), and why they lost some of their lure contracts.
i encourage everyone to buy from someone who makes a good product, practices good business ethics, stands behind their work, and supports all the visitors to MuskieFirst.
Keith Terlinden (Professional Edge) is accessible here on MuskieFirst every day.
Mark Rogers (California_Muskie) is available here on the site every day as well.
both Okuma and Pro Edge have been great supporters of the M1st community.
good people providing good equipment.
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Posts: 663
| I have one of the Fig Rig XXX rods. Frankly I don't throw the heavy stuff very much but when I did there was no problem. Yes, it's heavier than a traditional Tooth Tamer and other rods but I think you could throw a cement block with that rod. Not sure that rod weight is a real concern when you're throwing those big baits. Sort of comes with the territory doesn't it? |
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Posts: 1716
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | 8'6" MI rod is my personal favorite. i throw 10 oz swimbaits on it all day as well as the lighter baits. the double 10's caused no problems on this rod. although i rarely agree with reelwise, i do agree about this rod. a must buy! |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Nightmare says:
BN, Do not call "BS" on anyone, unless you are a registered member, or post your real name.
Sorry, I wasn't logged in but I did use my real initials...
I don't want to start a p*ssing match with you [moderator hand slap edit].
Dawgs and Curly Sue's are great baits...and how do I know dawgs have been soft for more than a year..um because I actually buy them, use them and I catch fish on them...A LOT of fish...[moderator hand slap edit]
ok slap my hand moderators...
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | slap |
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Location: Hayward, WI | lambeau - 12/8/2007 9:10 AM
the Edge series rod by Professional Edge is a very strong power rod with a pretty fast action to the tip. this rod is great for casting and ripping heavy plastics such as the Curly Sue. the stiffness of the rod meant slightly shorter casts for me, but you can really lay into even very heavy baits when working them back to the boat, and powering baits through the figure-8 at boatside is a breeze. i've got a Pro Edge XHvy Diamondback as well, and find that the Edge series XHvy actually handles the 13" plastics more easily.
http://www.proedgefishing.com/rods_edge_m.asp
Keith will have a booth at the Chicago show, and quite possibly at the Madison Expo.
I went to that link and the only rods listed were the "all purpose" action rated for 3-6 ounce baits. I'm guessing this isn't the rod action (power) you are talking about. Are the Xheavy 8' rods selling for $169 also, or do those cost more? Also, how would the Xheavy handle things like casting and ripping 10 inch Jakes and Cowgirls?
I'm trying to find a rod that can throw and work anything from bigger bucktails and cranks up to Pounders or 13" Sues and Suckers. Not sure if there is a rod that can throw baits in that wide of a range or not, but I've heard about people throwing a LOT of different types of baits on Keith's rods.
curleytail |
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Posts: 156
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Well guys thanks for the advice and after holding every rod for this application the Fig Rig jawbreaker 8 footer was my choice. max 48 oz lure weight. The pic shows a St. Croix Classic Cat next to the new Fig. I like the handle configuration. Tied on a 13" suzy when home and the balance was incredible, can't wait to cast her!! By the way watched the new musky madness video this past weekend and saw what muskies are doing to the pounders. They catch fish like the nine dollar bass except thirty dollar musky. Wow!
Edited by needa70lber 1/15/2008 12:06 AM
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