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| Looking to make my own leaders for next year using floro. Ok, so I get that I need a crimping tool, crimps and the actual floro (thinking of 100 and 130lb test)...but sizes? I have made my own mono leaders for years, but thinking of graduating to floro. What size crimps, swivels, etc. do most of you use? Thanks! | |
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| NO ONE here builds their own leaders? | |
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Posts: 1060
Location: Palm Coast, FL | I would suggest tying and not crimping on mono or floro. When crimping you are weakening/damaging the construct at that point. | |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | I crimp my own leaders all the time... Sorry, didn't see the thread until now.
I use both Sevenstrand (name brand) nylon-coated 7-strand steel leader in 135# strength, and 100# Seaguar Premiere flourocarbon. They both crimp very nicely. I use #6 Berkley ball-bearing swivels at the line end, but stainless tuna rings at the lure end.
YOU SHOULD USE DOUBLE BARREL CRIMPS (yes, I was shouting...lol), or the tendency is to over-crimp the ends of the collars, and then it weakens the material--as Vince correctly pointed out. You can try oval collars later, but start with the easy method first.
I spent some years working on aircraft cable as an aircraft mechanic, and learned the proper way to crimp collars. If you get the Sevenstrand brand crimping tool (Berkley owns them now, I believe), there is a chamfered area at the edge of the tool, so you do not apply pressure at the edge of the crimp. You don't want to crimp the very edge--as it cuts into the material. Your finished crimp should curve up slightly at each end, again because you have crimped the center of the collar, but not the edges.
For the 135# cable I use 1.3mm double-barrel collars, and I think I use 1.0mm double-barrel collars for the 100# fluoro. (I think the 1.0mm collars *just* fit.) I have tested the fluoro leaders and they NEVER break at the crimps--it's always in the leader itself (when a tensile load is applied). By the way, I always use two crimps at each end. It's just my thing I guess... I don't want to risk any slippage, although this probably isn't a valid concern as when I have tested the leaders, there was never any slippage with two collars. I doubt there would be with one, but the collars are so cheap and an extra one doesn't seem to dissuade the fish in the least!
I will say that I am not making many fluoro leaders anymore, as I use primarily the 135# 7-stranded leaders here in Green Bay. The secchi disk reading is about 1 FOOT...so stealth isn't a real big issue, lol. I did just give a couple fluoro leaders to PointerPride102 to try on his sucker rigs, so you might want to ask him what he thinks of them. I do not make them to sell however, as I don't have a lot of extra time to do that at this point. Maybe this winter I could make a bunch up, but I have no intentions of trying to take work away from guys like John Bette--he makes excellent leaders, but I just like to tinker with my own stuff. I also use some tuna rings with black delrin collars on the business end, because I do not use snaps at all--I split-ring the lures on the leaders. Joe Bucher is my hero in that respect.
Thus far we have caught 5 fish on my leaders this fall--36, 40, 43, 44 & 50 inches. The 44 was on a fluoro leader actually, but all the other fish were on the steel. All leaders were flawless. The guy I buy the stainless rings with black delrin collars from tells me that they catch 200+ pound tuna on them, so I figure that's good enough for old esox. If you want, I will take a couple pictures and post my finished leader. Maybe PP102 would do that for us as well--as I gave him my last two fluoro leaders.
It isn't hard to crimp the leaders--you just have to know the pitfalls to avoid. I was never happy with tying the 100# fluoro I had, so I just started crimping them. You can PM me a number if you want to talk more.
TB
Edited by tcbetka 11/9/2007 12:24 PM
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | Go to www.leadertec.com then go to Tips & Techniques and look for Crimping Techniques. This site will show you how to make the best leaders that you can make yourself. GOOD LUCK | |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | I had forgotten about that site--it's got some useful tips. Check out this page:
http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/crimp_techniques.html
Especially note the picture of the finished crimps; the right way on the left and the wrong way on the right side. I had also forgotten to mention the order of crimping--as indicated on that page.
TB | |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | I just started using fluro for sucker rigs this year, I would highly recommend you NOT! Went 4/5 on fish during the PI weekend, however, the fourth fish we got somehow managed not to cut the leader. However, the leader was cut so severly, that it basically looked like a piece of thread holding it together. Any size fish can cut fluro, however, the catch is, the fish has to have just right to cut the fluro. After catching that fish and seeing what it did to the fluro, I am totally done with fluro on sucker rigs, too risky. That all happened the night after I was talking this over with Nwild and his experience with using fluro on sucker rigs. Your chances of losing a fish aren't the greatest, but like Norm said, it will happen on a big fish. I will not be using fluro anymore!
Now the very next weekend after PI, Pointerpride calls me and says well, are worst nightmare has come true. He lost a 40inch fish or so on a fluro leader because it cut it. If you ask me, it's not worth it. So if your looking for leader material, I would suggest Tyger leader material. Rollie and Helens sells it if your interested. | |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | I use 130lb - 150lb test and I have never had a fish cut my leader. Tyger wire is some very good wire, very flexible and can fuse it or crimp it. | |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Pikemaster, I totally understand. Some people love the fluro, but after seeing how fast that fish cut the fluro, it's just a matter of time before you will eventually lose a fish. The way I look at it, if you can cut the stuff with scissors, then I will not use it. I thought to myself, fish won't cut a fluro leader of such thickness, well I was dead wrong. Just be careful, the time will come! | |
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | If you are tying mono or flouro make sure that you use KY Jelly. Yes, that is right, I did not stutter. Have your wife/girl friend go to the store and pick up some regular KY Jelly. It is a water base so you do not have to worry about it reacting with any line. It wipes right off and you are good to go. It is a fantastic lubricant. When you are tying any mono or flouro there is some friction and the KY virtually eliminates the friction and makes it much easier to assemble the leaders. | |
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Posts: 299
Location: Ontario, California | I think the debate will go on for many years on the positives and negatives of Flourocarbon. I have had good success (for Multiple toothy critters) using flouro. Personally I have not been bit off using Flouro but I have limited Musky experience. My saltwater experiences though have proved that Flouro is right for me. I too build my own leaders and as far as Musky goes... I now build them out of 130# Seaguar Flouro (Started with 100 pound). As in anything... there are good Flourocarbon as well as bad. I strongly suggest using the best quality line not only for it's refractive qualities but also for its hardness.
One other item that I use on the loops of the flouro is a leader spring. You can find these in most saltwater online stores / catalogs.
Here's a picture of the spring as well as a chewed up leader. The fish that did this was a big one that engulfed a Mag Dawg. The leader was sticking out of the Muskies mouth as it was head shaking violently and all that happened was some scraping. I guess until I lose a fish... I'll continue to use them.
As far as using crimps... as long as you have the right size MONO crimps and the correct tool... you can squeeze the tool as hard as you want without damaging the leader material.
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| Merckid - 11/10/2007 6:09 PM
Pikemaster, I totally understand. Some people love the fluro, but after seeing how fast that fish cut the fluro, it's just a matter of time before you will eventually lose a fish. The way I look at it, if you can cut the stuff with scissors, then I will not use it. I thought to myself, fish won't cut a fluro leader of such thickness, well I was dead wrong.Just be careful, the time will come! musky are not able to cut fluro me and all the guys i know have never have any failure.the poor leader are titanium not fluro.and btw musky are not able to use scissors so relax  | |
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Posts: 32884
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Anything I can cut with a sharp edged object I will not use. i know that mono and flouro are tough, but in my opinion steel is tougher.
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| steve just try them for ice fishing when you go for pike,you will see 2 thing your fluro will last all the winter and the tipup+ fluro will caught lot of more fishs than they other whit the steel leader.i know thats just pike but...........give it a try | |
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Posts: 32884
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | What pound test do you use for tip up fishing? I'm using 30# seven strand right now. | |
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Posts: 2024
| I like the way fluoro adds action to baits, especially cranks, gliders, and plastics.
However, I won't chance it on my trip to Canada. Even still, I mainly use bucktails and topwater when I'm up there so extra lure action is not much of a concern. | |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Ron F, hate to say it, but muskies can cut any size diameter fluro they want. You may have a 100 fish on fluro but that doesn't mean the next fish won't cut it. Trust me, it will happen, has happened to me and many others I know. But just wait, it will happen to you sometime if you use fluro for sucker rigs long enough. I can name multiple people who have been bit off on sucker rigs, and on leaders when throwing baits. Like I said, if fluro can be cut by scissors, it can be cut by a muskies mouth. | |
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| for me, there's a real difference between using fluoro on a leader for a lure, and using it on a sucker rig.
the casting leader is designed to prevent break-offs for what is mostly incidental contact with a fish's mouth, gill plates, etc. and it's relatively rare (though obviously not impossible) for a fish to get a casting leader in it's mouth and across it's teeth. i trust fluoro for this use as i really like the convenience of leaders that don't get kinked, etc. i check them often and after every fish or rock, etc. for cuts or scrapes and replace them immediately when it occurs. i've had fish put cuts in them, but never through one. to me, the advantages outweigh the small risk. (i've never had a fluoro leader fail. i have had steel leaders fail. any leader can fail if it's neglected!)
for sucker rigs i only use 7-strand. this is because the sucker rig will be inside the muskie's mouth almost every time. i would never trust fluoro in this application. as long as you're not "over-rigging" your sucker with a gaggle of wire and hooks, there's no advantage to fluoro on sucker rigs, so why risk the downside? i can't even imagine using it for them.
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Posts: 32884
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | ron f,
What pound test are you using for Ice Fishing? I'd like to try it. | |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | That leader spring (to me) seems to be a very good idea. I've wanted to do something like that just to increase the "wear-ability" of the leader at the snap.
I too have been using flouro without any issue, but my hits on baits using flouro seem to be worse. (It's got to be me...my leaders are only 14 inches long at most), Don't know exactly why that is...but now for 3 years running (one year running full steel and the other two running flouro on each side of the "steel year") I have experienced a lower than (my) average hook-up rate.
So...I'll be going back to steel next year again and trying it out one more time....
Steve | |
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