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| Going to start trolling soon..just wondering if theres any websites out there strictly with tips etcccc on the art of trolling maybe a video...growing up in WI and normally bass fishing my entire life, i dont know to much aboouth this...any help would be greatly appericated...thank guys |
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Posts: 688
Location: Northern IL | SVT,
You are on the right track so far! There is a a huge difference between an art, and dragging baits around aimlessly looking for bait fish. There are reasons to troll, trolling teaches us the bottom make up of the lake and teaches where to cast. If your desire is to become a better fishermen then learning to troll properly is your 1st step so you might as well learn from the greatest troller that ever was:
http://buckperry.com/ |
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Posts: 1636
| If that was a joke it made me laugh 
SVT...give me a call. |
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| If that was a joke it made me laugh :)
right...'cause no one ever catches muskies on Spoonplugs.
for you members of Muskies Inc., try a Lunge Log search by lure on "spoonplug".
only 815 muskies caught and registered on that lure, almost all trolling.
that's the kind of joke i want to hear.
a relevant comment by Steve Worrall from a different thread:
Desire to always learn, acceptance one doesn't and never will 'know it all', ability and willingness to adapt to new waters and conditions...
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Posts: 20211
Location: oswego, il | Brandyn, I know Jerry and if you of his succeses, or most any of us for that matter, we might just sell all our musky stuff! I have met other spoonpluggers and, yes it is a different way of thinking and fishing than what we are used to but it is a real eye opener to hear them tell you where they are catching fish, compared to where we may be fishing for them. |
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Posts: 1636
| I didnt say they dont work. Have fun with your spoonplugs :)
Edited by Reelwise 10/9/2007 8:44 PM
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| 2 guys to talk to about trolling for musky; Joel Michel (Tuffy1) and Dennis Radloff (Sterling Guide Service). These guys know their stuff when dealing with these toothy critters in a MAJOR way. Info about Dennis AND Joel can be found at www.sterlingmusky.com. Awesome guys, awesome fishermen and teachers of the art of musky "hunting". |
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Posts: 146
Location: where the fish are... | read something interesting about long line trolling in essox mag. didnt finish the article tho. Ryan see you in the morning bud |
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| Reelwise - 10/9/2007 8:07 PM
If that was a joke it made me laugh
SVT...give me a call.
Ill give you a call man....just never really done it before, well never really done it the right way I guess i sohuld say... |
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| gregg thomas has a video out, "weed fishing" or something like that. covers trolling very well. |
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Posts: 28
| spoon plugs are not the only thing you can troll me and my buddy got out biggest fish (51in) trolling jakes over deep water at 3.0mph |
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Posts: 82
Location: Cottage Grove, Mn |
"Spoonplugging" by Buck Perry |
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Posts: 35
| The 2007 fall issue of Esox Angler magazine is full of trolling articles. |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Gregg Thomas' Blueprints to Musky Success - Weed Fishing
This is a very educational video... Gregg goes in depth with trolling tactics (rod setups, etc), and explains the important relationship between submergent vegitation and muskies.
I do not think you can find a more comprehensive and demonstrative video on the topic than this. Mad Muskie Productions makes it. m |
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Posts: 226
Location: W. PA. | There's a lot more to trolling than most people think. It's much more than just pulling a couple lures while you have lunch. I break trolling into two categories, open water trolling and structure trolling. Whichever you plan to do it all starts with the same thing, a basic knowledge of the water you will be on and good equipment.
You don't want to use your expensive casting gear for trolling. Those $200 graphite rods will snap once it gets cold. Dipsy rods work well out the sides and the orange eagle claw rods or ugly sticks are cheap for out the back. Line counter reels are a must. The Okumas and Diawas both hold up well. You need good rod holders also. Stay away from the plastic ones, get some down easters and you won't have to worry about one breaking and losing a rod.
When structure trolling the most important thing is knowing where your lure is. It's just like pulling your boat, you have to swing wide on the outside turns. If you're trolling up along a point once you get to the end you can't just turn and go down the other side. The lure is still behind you and when the boat starts to turn so does the lure. The lure crashes into the point like your boat trailer would hit the curb. Inside turns are the opposite, you want to go in further than you want the lure to go and then make the turn or the fish hanging on the edge never see the bait.
The other aspect of lure presentation is depth, this is more important when targeting deeper suspended fish. The old adage "better 20' above 'em than 5' under 'em" is absolutely true. Another thing to consider is the baitfish. We never like to run right through the bait, stay above and below them. Running these large lures right through the middle can break up the bait pods and be counter-productive.
The last point I wanted to mention is electronics. Most of the modern gps units can handle 1000 waypoints and icons, use them. When you're trolling along a complex edge or reef mark a waypoint on each turn, hump or whatever. If you miss one turn around and go back over it and mark it. This is a pain but you only have to do it once and it's there forever. Once you have it marked you can run that edge perfect every time, repetition is the key for trolling.
The reservoirs we fish out East are filled with structure, old railroad beds, road beds, stump fields, laydowns, creek channels, you name it. Knowing where the fish are likely to be and staying on them is how you catch fish consistently trolling.
So many times, especially in the fall, we'll fish the bait all day and not see a hook. Then all of the sudden there are arcs everywhere and you catch 2 or 3 fish in a half hour and it shuts down again. You just have to stay with it until the feeding window opens.
Like most guys I'd rather catch a fish casting than trolling but I play the odds. I'll take 2 or 3 trolled fish to a skunked day casting anytime  Hope this helps you somewhat, there are so many little things that can make a difference but you never put them together until you spend time doing it. Read all you can and put it to practice. You'll be trolling up the big girls in no time.
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | I live in Oregon and we troll alot here for Salmon. One thing I have found that dramatically improves my catch is to watch my trolling speed on a GPS. I have a hand-held GPS that I place right beside me while trolling and I watch it all the time! If it's the slightest bit breezy the wind will trick your eyes into thinking you are going slower or faster than what you really are. Learn to use the GPS and once you have the speed dialed in stick with it! Generally troll faster when the water is warm and slower as it cools.
Good luck!
RM |
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| wow thanks alot guys...great help on this site.. |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | How about planing boards? My boards seem to slip off the line pretty often with big muskie lures like Jakes and Ernies. Do I need to lock them on tighter somehow?
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| Mine used to do that all the time as well, so I changed out the original clamps with larger and better-made ones. They should be available anywhere you can buy planer boards. Since the swap out, I haven't had a problem whatsoever! |
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| Here's the link to Cabelas just to show you what I'm talking about . . .
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.j... |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | For $15 a clip, I might as well try to jimmy-rig a tighter spring in there.
That's pretty pricey. I'd rather spend my $$$ on lures. |
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Posts: 272
| Spending that per clip is not necessary. The red ones work just fine. I posed a concern about them, with reference to them burning a groove in the peg, in a different thread (maybe even this one, can't remember)......I'm about 99% sure that I had my spring tension set too light, so the line could slip a little in there. Put new ones on, slid the spring to the tight setting.....golden. Not saying the grooving is gone forever, but it has stopped, or nearly completely stopped for now.
Red ones are approx 9 bux a pair. A friend of a friend found a board floating the other day that had those pads like in the Cabela's link....which means THEY ain't foolproof either.
At least put one red pad in front, or you'll be chasing castaway boards all day, and on EVERY fish you catch. A muskie WILL pull the line through the black pads the yellow OffShore boards come with. I promise. |
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| anyone ever hear of night trolling? and/ or in really dark dirty water?....mono over braided line? ....
Can you start trolling at Ice Out?
Are there any good rod/real combo kits like the ones from Bass Pro with the counters on them, are they any good?
How much line is useally set out? How is the rod for the prop wash bait set up? How far back does it go?...
I know useally you fish the breaks when trolling. How about the shallows come spring? Or even open water?
I have soo many questions when it comes to this. BUT 2008 Im going to be doing it alot. THANKS EVERYONE!!! Im still a young guy trying to learn it all. THANKS!
Edited by SVT 2/25/2008 9:34 PM
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| like these combos?
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/index/index-display.jsp... |
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | SVT, you can definitely troll from ice out to ice up. Sometimes it is easier to locate where the fish are concentrated in spring. When I'm trolling in spring, I tend to run very short lines and work pretty shallow water. You want to keep your baits just above the new weeds for the most part and don't be afraid to go fast.
We troll from 2.5 all the way up to 5mph in the spring. Great way to cover shallow flats. Don't be afraid to fish open water as well though. We get quite a few fish on prop wash baits fished over the basins in early spring. The fish that haven't moved up onto the flats are out there feeding, and not down that far.
When I'm fishing baits in the prop wash, I usually have them from about 3 to 10' out. Most of the time, you see the fish jump before you hear the clicker going out on the short lines. It's pretty cool. I loooove short lining jointed believers in the spring, but SSRs work good as well as shallow raiders.
One big thing about fishing shallow in the spring is you're going to work your butt off. Make sure that your bait is right where you want it. Keep an eye on the tips for weeds that have fouled the bait. It takes 2 seconds to clean the baits when running short lines, so do it. Also, you'll see some pretty cool stuff when you are running baits on short lines. Many times (depending on water clairity) you'll see the fish hit if you're watching the baits.
Lots of stuff to try. Get out there and just do it for a day. Also, those BPS reels aren't so bad. I only have one, but it's been holding up for a while. Also, check out the Okumas. The Magdas are good for a lower price, and the Convectors are great as well, and they are just a little more if I remember correctly, than the BPS reels. Shoot me a pm if you have any trolling questions. I'd be more than happy to help ya. |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | Are "short lines" considered about 30 ft?
Any other lures you like to troll with? bucktails? topraiders? super shads? |
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | Short lines meaning from the lenght of a leader (my shortest for this are about 3' to maybe 15'. When I'm running short lines, that's about all I have out, but depending on the situation, there may or may not be wieght added.
Also, I do run bucktails and spinnerbaits as well, but mostly minnowbaits, cranks and jerkbaits.
Edited by tuffy1 2/26/2008 1:41 PM
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Posts: 1636
| I would like to try trolling spinnerbaits. Anyone have any tips? This is something I have never done. Thanks for all the input on this thread. |
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| tuffy1's post summed it up well. For big pike also, the biggest mistake I see people making is trolling way too shallow and way too slow early on. Our ONT Opener is 3rd Sat in June. Weeds are real good by then most years, and trolling well away from them or any other cover can be very good. I second tuffy1's call on the jntd Beleivers too, they just seem to run at the right depth and have the right moves. Like woodie said too, some real goofy, hot colours can be good on any kind of water. Those baits catch muskies from June to December up here, no question about it. Legend Outkasts, 10" Jakes, Shallow Invaders and DepthRaiders all work too. The Super Shad Rap might be the best of them all some years. We do more and more trolling early with Super Topraiders and stuff every year and haven't connected yet, but I think we will. The water's normally around 60-63/64 degrees. Spinnerbaits work awesome for bird dogging fish out of heavy cabbage. They so much lower maintenance than plugs. They're always close to the boat. To check them, just pop the rod out of the holder (I have 5 S-10 Salties on my boat) and bluge the bait up to look at it. At least once a year you'll get bit doing this, it's wild, even with smaller pike. The Super Shad Rap's dynamite in the weeds. Real tight axis of wobble and only two trebles make it come thru really clean most of the time. Even in filthy water (Moon River Basin, Lake Nippissing) plain old perch is our best colour. Baits like Outkasts wander a little more in the weeds but their action is so hard they clean themselves pretty good after contact with cabbage weeds. We use 80 and 100 pound super braid as well as 63# dacron in the shallow slop. In the shallow stuff, one guy runs the outboard and the other guy works the rods, constantly cleaning, checking or shaking off the smaller pike. Over deeper runs, many of the fish we get never show up on the screen, the reel just squaks and its game on. You know it ain't bottom when it's 40' deep and you're down six or eight. I use the SEalines in the little 27's and larger 47's, they are my favorites for all trolling, but the Accu Depths are decent too. My buddy uses Magdas and Convectors and loves them too. For trolling, all the reel does is hold/retrieve line, the rod and holders do all the work, in my opinion. I wish all the fish I caught casting were hooked as well as the ones caught trolling! Most times they're on there good. We run a lot of wire later in summer and into December too with baits like 10" Hookers, Plows, Perchbaits, Ferris Baits, 13" Believers, 14" Jakes, 13" Grandmas, Hose Baits. Lunge Locker Bubble Shads (anybody who has any of these old babies to off load I'm all ears) even little baits like Ernies, Cisco Kidds and Depthraiders. You can get down and stay down 25'+ easily, even with lots of bottom contact, pauses and inside turns. I think trolling's a lot more work than casting, and if you check the Ont stats the last ten years from big-fish water like Niagara R, French R, Georgian Bay, Ottawa R, LSC or the Larry, a disproportionate number of the mangum fish are caught trolling. If you have the option to do it, definitely give it a shot. Trolling surface lures also really opens your eyes to how lures track and respond to boat direction! |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | Wow. 3-15' is ALOT shorter than I have ever trolled. I guess I assume they won't like the engine noise. Dacron, ever use planing boards? I got a few, but havent' used them a whole lot, cuz they seem like more trouble than they're worth lately. I just haven't gotten a hang of them. I got a few smaller, shallower baits for this spring (6" jake, baby shallowraider, jointed Bomber Long A, 8" jointed believer, super shad) and i plan on trolling them around some shallow 5-10' flats with nice weeds. i'll just run short lines in random S turns until I either run out of gas, or catch somethin. Is it worth it to use planing boards in this situation, or just cast them 10-30 ft off the back of the boat? |
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Posts: 1247
Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | SVT, You may want to look at past threads in archive at my web site message board at www.mostlymuskies.com/reports.htm
You can ask any Trolling question here or on my message board, I will answer it if I can and as soon as I can,I'm gone to Shows a lot this time of the year and can't get to the boards every day. I troll 75% of the time,both at night and day. |
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| There's a guy who catches some enormous fish trolling! In-line boards are way, way easier to set up, pack around and run than mast boards. But you give up speed, spread and can't use as large/hard-pulling of a lure, those are the biggest trade-offs. Little Offshore walleye boards with locking front releases are great for all fish. About the biggest baits we use behind them are 10" Jakes/10" Beleivers. They've perfect for DepthRaiders, Invaders and spinner-style lures. With low speeds and smaller baits like for trout and walleye, you can feed them out laterally over some huge distances. More speed sucks them in tighter to the boat. But even still, an extra 25-30' swath covered out from the boat is pretty nice! We're only allowed 1 line/man up here. If we were allowed two or more, I'd have boards out at all times. At least one. Some of the structure we fish is real sharp and drops fast into deep water so there are lots of turns and cut backs with the boat, making boards a little more work. But over open water or flat spots, the extra coverage they give you is a big plus, I think. They're easy to use, definitely safer to learn on (and cheaper) than say, a downrigger. You will never rip anything off your boat, snag a ball or lose cable. They float, are light weight and a set will last you a lifetime. They're a super investment. Especially if you do other species in the offseason. I have had pike, bass and muskie all smash boards, too. I think they could be deadly towing surface lures in some cases. Most of the spreads we run, the deepest sets are closest to the boat, the further out we go laterally, the shallower the set, usually. Baits 12 to 40 feet behind a board and out laterally a good distance catch fish. A good chop helps get the surging action going. If you blow a board off on a strike, hard turn or by spearing a wave, loop around and pick it up. Nearly everything we get trolling is with the wind, rarely into it. And with the wind, the boards really stall and surge baits along. Braided line and shorter leads helps this affect. I think for row trolling (something I've never done but would love to try) boards would be awesome. Boards are like trolling with a bobber, you see the strike, it's highly visual and there will be no confusion when one its, watching a fish burry the board is a really cool deal. By the time you pick the rod, the fish is on, don't set the hook. If the fish blows off the board, so much the better, in my opinion. Pick it up after. Having a long rod and an extra set of hands helps if/when the releases stay put. And watch for people not paying attention and running over your whole whole set-up. It happens all the time. Low flying geese and gulls have also run thru the line out to the board...talk about a mess! As long as I get my lure back, the bird always wins I got a thirty pound lake trout last April, triggered by a Canada Goose flying thru my line and flailing around with my jointed Rapala 90' behind the chaos. Unwrapped the goose, picked the down off my line ( it was like glue, all wadded up in the guides and reel) took up the slack and a big laker was pulling the other way. The poor goose had a 17' Lund bearing down on it from one end and a fish dragging it around from the other. |
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | Dacron, wire is on my list this year to learn to work for muskies. I've been starting to fish Lake Michigan for the chrome the past few years and have learned a ton trolling out there. I have some good ideas this year to try, but we'll see. They look good on paper at least. LOL
Willis, I wouldn't necessarily just put the lines out 5, and 15' (I know you didn't actually say this, but bear with me). Depending on how high the weeds are to the surface, what types of baits you are running, and how fast you are going would help me dial in how much line. If you can just hit the weeds everyonce in a while, you should be good. If you're just starting out doing it, run 2 rods. In the skinny water at least, you'll be able to adjust those 2 rods faster. If you know there is a weed clump coming up, you can push your rod tip up to bring the bait higher, then push it back down to get it back to where you want it. (I use Down Easters, so it makes it easy to do). But, if you can run more than one rod a person, once you get comfortable, try 2 on really short lines right off the back corner of the boat, then 2 out from there that you can keep moving around the structure you are fishing.
Good to hear some trolling talk. Larry, I'll have to check your board out. I'm always looking to talk (and learn more) about trolling. |
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Posts: 255
Location: MadCity Wisconsin | I used several types of planer boards last year and found the Offshore boards to be most reliable. I had trouble with both the standard adjustable tension line clips in both black or red as the clips frequently pulled off in wave action or speeds up to 5mph. Lambeau gave me good advice on picking up the clamp style OR18's and didnt have a single pull off from waves or speed from that point forward. These clamps are not cheap at 15 bucks apiece but worth the loss of aggravation.
Interesting finding......For every 10 muskie trolled up only 1 one would hit on the planer board. The other 90% hit on straight line or prop wash trolled baits. Didnt make much sense to me, but tell the muskies that!
Row trolling was a different story with 50% of our skis hitting planer board baits. Go figure. |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | Tuffy,
Thanks for the info. I like to troll around 3mph mostly, but for no real reason. trolling in water depths 6-8 ft with weeds coming within 3 feet of the surface. This probably narrows down the lure types I can use. My shallower lures were listed above.
Another question: do you guys attribute much of your success to your line counters? I just haven't come to the point where it is an exact science quite yet. When given the choice, I would rather buy reels that I want to cast and also have the ability to troll. A line counter reel doesn't really give you the option to cast for any given length of time. Is it worth the sacrifice? |
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Posts: 1710
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | I am just starting to troll for muskies but I do spoonplug. If metered line is not available Buck Perry said to count passes of the levelwind. You can measure out in the yard from one end of the reel to the other (on the levelwind) and use this as a general baseline. |
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Posts: 255
Location: MadCity Wisconsin | Willis......I am sure Tuffy 1 will agree, if you are serious about trolling for muskie line counters are a must due to the fact that you need to know exactly how much line you put out and how deep your baits will run. A GPS is also a must-have to mark your trolling runs as close to structure as possible and marking & repeating successful runs.
You can pick up very reliable, durable line counter reels for less than 70 bucks. Daiwas 47LCs or Cabelas Depthmasters hold up well for only 40 bucks a piece. |
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | That's exactly what I was going to say Ryan. Willis, for trolling shallow, a line counter isn't necessary, however when working deeper water and trying to get your baits down deeper, it helps to stay consistent. But again, you can count passes as well. No problems there.
The shallow baits you mentioned will work good for ya too. |
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| Just make sure she's got a clicker and you're all set.
Don't forget! Many, many trolling sets are 50' back and less. We use two foot pulls off the reel. A 'pull' is about two feet. 25 of them and you're back 50. It's not an exact science, but quick, easy to reproduce and it works just fine. Any sets with longer leads, a counter reel works quicker. If you've mostly got less than fifty feet of line out and often as little as 1/2 to 1/4 that, there's no need for a special counter reel in my opinion. Pulls work just fine for those shorter sets. You can use your casting stuff. Shortlining, propwashing etc there's no need for a counter. You're not letting out much line to begin with. 50'+ is a little more time-consuming for pulls, way easier to play out line straight off the reel and just watch the number wheels. A hot set for us with walleye boards is "75:" 25 feet behind the clip, 50 feet out from the rod holder. You can run Jakes etc right up along most of the structure we fish and come through OK and still have a shot at fish over deeper water. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | This might be a silly question, but I don't seem to see it talked about much in trolling discussions. When you are trolling with your rods in holders, how tight do you set your drags? I know that I can set the drag a little tighter when holding the rod because I can quickly freespool or point the rod back when I get snagged or (less often) when a fish hits.
I'm guessing you want the drag to slip when a big fish hits so you aren't dragging 30 pound of fish through the water if a big fish hits, or snap rods or rod holders when you get snagged. How do you trollers go about setting your drags when having the rods in holders?
curleytail |
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Posts: 27
Location: Workin' the deep breaks | what are everyone's favorite trolling rods? I was having this discussion with tuffy1 earlier (thanks by the way) as I need to replenish my trolling arsenal this year and was just wondering what everyone else's opinion was... |
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Posts: 255
Location: MadCity Wisconsin | Trolling Rods....... I was using Cabelas CatMax 7.5' for over a year and most of them held up. Line guides failed on one of them once. The price was right for around 25 bucks. I switched over to Shimano Taloras with stainless steel line guides after watching them in action with Mike Pittiglio on Lake St. Clair. The Taloras are built like tanks. 60 bucks on sale.
Stay away from the Gander Guide series........the line guides are thin, frail and will not hold up. |
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Posts: 2
| I have a few of these removable linecounters and they worked well for me. I tried to find them on another site but I only found them on Cabelas.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=00020...
Edited by Little35 2/26/2008 11:08 PM
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Posts: 1286
Location: WI | For those running jerkbaits, do you put the rod in a holder or are you pumping the rod while trolling? I was thinking that maybe on a short line in the prop wash they might bounce all over on their own. I know I've read an article in MHM about it..just want to know how others do it. |
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | For my drags, I would go a little on the loose side if you're not sure. But as an easy way to test, run your bait back a ways, then rip the rod forward. Your drag should slip when doing this. Not too much, just get a little line slipping. As a general rule, that should get you close. You don't want it so loose that you don't get a good hook into the fish, or too tight that you end up straightening hooks out. You can get away with a little more using mono due to the stretch, but with braid you'll end up loosing more fish if you have too tight of a drag.
As far as jerkbaits go, it depends on what I'm trolling. I haven't run sledges, but I think those you can just put down and let them do their thing. If I'm trolling suicks, then I am pumping the rod. I'm usually going pretty fast with a suick too so it gives you a good workout. If I'm trolling gliders, I use gliders that have their own side to side action (slamer drop bellies shine here). Those I just put in the holders and let the boat (turns, waves etc) give them erratic action in between the normal swimming motion they have. |
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| If your desire is to become a better fishermen then learning to troll properly is your 1st step
AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!  |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | I get what you're saying about the line counter. To know exactly where my bait is for deeper sets, i'll need a counter.
The lake I fish 90% of the time has a very inconsistant bottom. I must use a GPS and follow the contours, and have even marked a 20' line around all the reefs to further detail the bottom. (i'm trying to make a science out of this)
If i'm trolling the 20' break, i'll throw out a 10" jake pretty far (say 70 feet) also a ernie and maybe a believer.
if it is hitting bottom, i'll reel in a few feet. If it's not, i'll let a few out.
This seems lie a pretty crude method, but I can't be that far off. I'll try to measure the line counting passes on the levelwind this spring. At least that will help my confidence of knowing where the lure is. Unfortunately, it won't tell me where the fish are
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | Willis,
Don't be afraid to run it over their heads. 4-10' down over 20' is not a bad bet most times.
S. |
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| SVT, a note on spoon plugs, the larger spoon plugs move water just like a number ten blade would, be open minded.
Ben
Edited by MuskyFix 2/27/2008 12:02 PM
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| I never once said anything about spoon plugs....Id never use them. |
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| Bobbies troll really well too, if you bend down the corner tabs on the widest part of the tail fin 90 degrees, they rumble like a crankbait and hang on over four miles an hour. The faster the better. Just a second tip on your board releases---any rubber pad release, downrigger clips included--when you store them, put a spacer in between the pads for them to close on. They will bond a bit and get gummy, especially when they're all roughed up from line and lots of fishing. The pads will wear faster and I have had them pull off their mounts after they fused together and I went to spread them. It's not needed between trips, but it's a good idea over the winter, say if they'll be sitting for a couple months. Those little plastic bread tie things that come on Wonderbread work just fine (they make a good guitar pick in a pinch too). Use loc-tite on the front clips where they attach to the mounting arm. The little nut will come loose from the bolt. You can spit and duct tape a rear clip to save a day's fishing but that front clip is a lot tougher to rig up if it falls off. You want it on there indefinitely. |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | Do you troll weighted bobbies/suicks, or floating? |
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| Both willis, most of them have a bell sinker up front for depth and sound, even on the weighted models. A few of the patterns I like I can only ever find in unweighted so I weight them. Unweighted without hook rash or teeth holes right outta the box can be tough to keep down for me. Unweighted Sledges are tough too, a 3oz Bead Chain to a 24" leader to the bait works good, Sledges have a real nice high-speed action slicing back and forth, rattles too. I really like the Big Daddies trolling, used them a bit last year, they're like the Bobbie, almost a crankbait wobble. Suicks I hold the rod and pump, Bobbie, Sledge or Big Daddie will run fine in a holder. Straight bach or on a 45 over the transom near the wash is normally where we put them, you might need weight. |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | Thanks Dacron...
Where do you attach the bell sinker on the bait? |
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | You can attach those to the split rings on the hooks Willis. |
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| Yep, on the front split ring. It's tricky, but try to set it up so that the sinker rides tucked in back of the hook shaft. Ideally, it should hang at rest in the space where two bends meet the main shaft. You will have to take it off and put it on a few times to get it right. Most of my Suicks have little holes worn in the belly where the weigt knocks back and hits the wood. You get good sound off this set up, it works even better on Beleivers with the hollow plastic. It doesn't have to be perfect, on a well-tuned Suick it won't change the action much, just try to rig the weight behind the hook or off to one side rather than straight in front. Casting you get longer throws, more hang and more sound, trolling you can keep them down and sound. 10"ers unweighted I use as heavy as 5/8 I think. Solder on the front hook shaft works too, but no sound and you shrink all three hook gaps. I use Mustads 3x Heavy wire hooks on most Suicks, at least the front two any ways. The wire stock is like screw-driver thick but the points really hone down fine and sharp. They're real heavy hooks! Probably 1/3 of all my hard baits don't even use a treble off the tail at all. |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | I'm excited. I bought my first suick last year, and it hasn't performed to my liking. I may have to tune it more, I didn't like how bouyant it is. It rises WAY too fast if you ask me. This will help a great deal with casting, and hopefully I can add another trolling option to my arsenal. |
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| After a few hours of hook rash and some fish, it will take on water and hang down. Try the heavy wire hooks too, a 6/0 under the chin and two 5/0's behind that. That high-bouyancy is exactly what I like in heavy slop cabbage and reeds. They back right out of the weeds and many fish pick them right off the top. The ones I throw on deeper spots and later in the year pretty much suspend, some run as deep as 8 or 9 feet. You will like the real bouyant ones for making short casts in shallow water and heavy cabbage etc, very weed-free. Up around Red Lake ON, surface fishing 10" unweighted Suicks on top is one of the best ways to get big pike early on. The longer you lay it there the better, they'll come get it. Try to belly flop it down feathering the reel so that it hits flat on the belly, I try to do this with Bulldawgs too, it makes a really natural 'smuck' sound. If they don't hit it after a 15 count, pull it under for a few feet, let it rise, and wait again. I fished it pull-pause for three solid days until a 30-year guest at our lodge smoked me surface fishing. I got a laugh watching him fish a Suick sitting down, but I wasn't laughing for long, that's the best way to fish it up there. Any wood bait, the more beat up it gets, the better it will stay down, adding heavy wire hooks will help right away too. Those 3x wire Mustads have a shorter overall shank than the stock hooks, but they still hook very well. Smaller sized help Depthraiders etc run deeper and hang too, if that's what the spot calls for. |
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Posts: 155
| I,d just start with boat rods.Fish are drawn towards motor noise.So having 1 rod on both sides of the boat is one of the best choices to hook one good. |
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| Looking at buying a couple rod/reel combos this weekend. Any ideas guys? I plan on trolling a couple times a week from ice out to ice up....mono or braid? Where can I get 80lb mono? |
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| ryan bass pro in their salt water trolling section has 80lbs mono like 1000 ft for $70, ill prolly buy some anyways soon |
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | See your PM SVT. Also, for line, I don't think you have to go with 80# mono. I would go with either 80# braid, or go with braid on 2 rods and mono (say 30-50#) on 2 rods and go from there. For starters though, you would be okay with all rods having the braid on them. Then as you get more into trolling and are looking for specific presentations, pick up some rods with mono...... then you're sucked in. Next thing you know, you have 20 different trolling rods for different presentations. lol It's a vicious cycle. |
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| For sure, 40# Berkley Big Game is a real tough mono and the stretch can be your friend in lots of cases. Nobody ever talks about Dacron but it's a great middle of the road between superbraid and mono, it has a fair bit of give. 63# Cortland Musky Master is an excellent line for shortline trolling or letting baits further away/out and keeping them high on longer leads. It's very thick with way more stretrch than braid and way less than mono. |
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| Mike Baratta is one of the best trollers I've ever known. Hit him up for some info.
www.muskytrollingsecrets.com
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Posts: 140
| Donnie is way too kind and I still need to kidnap him and his boys to spoil them sometime this fall.
I agree with Tuffy, stick with 1-2 setups and learn how to use them. I usually use 80-100# braid and keep the baits as close to the boat as possible while achieving the desired depth of lure presentation. You have much greater control over your baits location and can follow contours like rocky fingers or renegade weed clumps much better. You don't need that heavy of a pound test for break strength. It's more for abrasion resistance and not getting imbedded into the spool on a nasty snag or decent fish. I've found that in the majority of cases the fish aren't boat shy and at times propwash trolling is the ticket. Using flurocarbon leaders has helped my catches.
Don't be afraid to run a small glider or Super Shad Rap 5 Ft. behind a board up on weed flats. The past couple of Falls rather than just running flatlines off the back and following behind the boat path, I had a surprising number of fish hit a bait run off a board on the open water side of the boat. I run that bait 8-10 feet down.
Lots of good stuff in this thread.
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| Mike, have you tried much with surface baits in the way you described with the boards...Canadian Side of the boat, 5 feet or so behind the clip? I think this could be a real winner, You could run a board+topwater on a short leash along anything from a distance with next to no chance of hanging up. Baits like the Krook could be dynamite here too, I'd think. In the spring, I have caught rainbows to twelve or thirteen pounds literally plowing boards into shoreline sand, skipping them off ice floes, hitting exposed shoals with J-11's back about 48" . The bottom edges of my walleye boards look just like a crankbait lip, all hacked and scuffed from hitting stuff. A surface bait worked like this would be really interesting I think. You'd need very little water to run the combo in. Muskie would probably ignore the bait and hammer the board ha ha. I know striper guys in real clear water will run live herring right up into shoreline deadfalls, wing dams etc. They paint the bottom of the board flat black to hide it better, I guess. You're right, this thread just won't die and is getting pretty awesome. |
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Posts: 140
| I have run prop style topwater off of boards with some success. Some, not alot. I usually catch floating weeds quite readily and get frustrated quickly. So then I prefer to cast after my dad is done peppering the bottom of my boat with poorly discarded sunflower seed shells.
I do find that I get maybe 1 out of every 10 or so hits on the board itself. I know guys who put big trebles off the back of the boards to catch floating weeds actually hook and land a few fish after they hit the board. I know Herbie had a few monsters attack his boards over the years. Ethical, hmmmm.
Like you said about spring cohos and trout, I'd run a J-11 or Storm Thinfin back 5 feet or so from a Big Jon Little Otter board and weave that sucker in and out or rocky breakwall and icebergs. It was reall alot of fun to scale down your tackle and fight those fish on bass gear. |
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| If I am trolling along a weed edge and using a board, I'd recommend running something more snaggless like a spinner bait.
It becomes a pain in the neck having to reset the boards because of weeds, the spinner bait runs pretty clean. |
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| Hoop,
Spinnerbaits on boards are tough to hook fish. Boards with baits behind them seem to need multiple treble hooks. If you were to be trolling at a high rate of speed, and keep the board from popping off, and staying attached to the line, then you have a much better chance of hooking the fish. Regardless, nothing is absolute in muskie fishing, except that "Nothing is absolute in muskie fishing!!"
Trolling weed edges is tough if the weeds are tight to the surface, and you're using a board. We speed troll spinnerbaits with 4-7 feet of line out at 4.5-7 mile per hour, and it is like guerilla warfare...pretty awesome though!!!
Donnie |
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Posts: 10
| You should definitely check out a new DVD video that will soon be released, called "Muskies Live!" It is all about this new Video Trolling method, that is basically sight fishing, while trolling. You use an Aqua-Vu underwater camera to watch muskies follow and strike trolled lures. Unbelievable footage. Saw it playing at the Blaine Minnesota Expo today, and it absolutely blew my mind.
Binkelman |
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Trolling 101