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Posts: 440
| If you take off the original handle on a 7000 and replace it with a Hog Handle does the shorter handle change the amount of line retreived per turn? My thinking is a turn is a turn but maybe I can go around faster with a shorter handle. Someone with some engineering background or good math skills may be able put some numbers to it. |
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| a turn is a turn....but one thing to consider...on a Penn 975 the handle has 2 settings..one is closer and one the handle is farther out...now putting it farther out will make retrieving hard pulling baits easier but it can slow how fast you are bringing them in and take more "work" to burn....on the closer setting it is easier to burn them mainly because the distance your hand has to travel to turn it one revolution is less and it takes less time....my 2 cents...i'm not an engineer tho! ; ) |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | a turn is indeed a turn ... the length of the handle increases or decreases the force required to make the turn ... torque = mass x distance of the lever arm
Edited by jonnysled 9/24/2007 2:32 PM
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Well I'm not an engineer, but here's my explanaton of handle length. A complete revolution of the handle will bring in the same amount of line no matter if the handle is 2 inches or three feet.
With a shorter handle you can turn it quicker, and pick up line faster. BUT! (and this is a big but), when reeling hard to pull baits the limiting factor isn't just how fast you can physically turn your wrist, but how fast you can turn it under a load.
If you have no bait tied to anything, you can crank that reel really fast. Put a hard pulling bait on there and how fast can you turn it? Even though you can turn a reel faster with a short handle with no load, you can probably pick up line faster under a load with a longer handle.
There, I've explained something very simple and made it sound complicated. Clear as mud?
curleytail |
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| I have not put the new handle set up to the double 10 test, it has more than shined in every other aspect. Somehow a simple handle change has made the big fat 7000 "feel" a bit smaller. |
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| What is a Hog Handle? Is that just what we are calling the new version of the Abu power handle? |
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Posts: 440
| Sorry, I guess the real name on the handle is Gator Grip, I always have called them Hog Handles. It is a double paddle handle with good rubber grips. |
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| I think that Gator Grip is going to make your life harder when pulling big baits with a 7000 |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | moving a handle fastest ... different under a load vs. no load ... the force energy comes into play. if you have less resistance by having a lower force when using a longer lever arm technically you could rotate the fulcrum faster ... otherwise you would be exerting more force on the shorter lever arm .... and the result is defined by engineering as = work ...
so, in essence when the load is applied, don't think you can "work" faster with the shorter handle .... not always the case. and you can do the math on all of it if you wanted to. |
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| jonnysled - 9/27/2007 1:28 PM
moving a handle fastest ... different under a load vs. no load ... the force energy comes into play. if you have less resistance by having a lower force when using a longer lever arm technically you could rotate the fulcrum faster ... otherwise you would be exerting more force on the shorter lever arm .... and the result is defined by engineering as = work ...
so, in essence when the load is applied, don't think you can "work" faster with the shorter handle .... not always the case. and you can do the math on all of it if you wanted to.
Right on Sled, but I prefer to leave the engineering at work. Bringing force and work calculations into fishing is just too much...  |
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| Sled, wouldn't that be offset by the fact that you have to move the handle a greater distance to make a single revolution? Seems to me the increase in speed would be most pronounced at the handle edge and not necessarily translate into a greater line pick up speed...
But then college physics was many moons ago.
I say
1. Put the handle on it and FISH!
Edited by esoxaddict 9/27/2007 1:43 PM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | but, but, but Baldy .... we could take this all the way to the bait and determine variable load levels created by the other variables and their interactions ... ie: vectors from rod tip to the bait to optimize where you hold your rod during the retreive and steepness or flatness of the retrieve angles, the energy either absorbed or spent at the tip, variable rod lever length and really determine the best overall setup including rod length, action, stiffness and position for optimized retrieves ... jonesi is saying that the rod makes as big or bigger difference and when you think about the physics it makes sense ...
it's fishing ergophysics at it's best ... |
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| jonnysled - 9/27/2007 1:45 PM
but, but, but Baldy .... we could take this all the way to the bait and determine variable load levels created by the other variables and their interactions ... ie: vectors from rod tip to the bait to optimize where you hold your rod during the retreive and steepness or flatness of the retrieve angles, the energy either absorbed or spent at the tip, variable rod lever length and really determine the best overall setup including rod length, action, stiffness and position for optimized retrieves ... jonesi is saying that the rod makes as big or bigger difference and when you think about the physics it makes sense ...
it's fishing ergophysics at it's best ...
we sure could Sled, but my office is the place for that kind of talk
too much thought being put into catching these stupid buzzards sometimes...LOL |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | EA
that's going to require a horsepower calculation and i need to understand the input force capable by the guy ... but, again not necessarily so ... and can be calculated in the lab. |
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| For some real world experience...
I put a Super Heavy duty power handle (longer, with increased leverage) on one of my 7000's, and I guarantee you that you cannot reel a double 10 faster than I can with that setup...and it's easy as pie to reel that sucker in
Edited by BALDY 9/27/2007 1:52 PM
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Location: minocqua, wi. | ok ... now, that being said ... can you take it the next step and put it on two different rods and optimize further from there? ... mathematically of course ... are two 9' rods the same with different action? is a 9' "faster" than an 8'6" ... based on the net reduction of the overall load force? ... or is the load force constant? ...
sounds like a great college engineering project that would need a lot of "field work" ... |
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| jonnysled - 9/27/2007 2:01 PM
ok ... now, that being said ... can you take it the next step and put it on two different rods and optimize further from there? ... mathematically of course ... are two 9' rods the same with different action? is a 9' "faster" than an 8'6" ... based on the net reduction of the overall load force? ... or is the load force constant? ...
sounds like a great college engineering project that would need a lot of "field work" ...
Will one rod be faster than the other? I doubt it, but one rod may cause more or less fatigue over the course of day of throwing these things.
Maximum speed likely will not be effected, but average speed may be increased by allowing you maintain a higher speed for a longer amount of time.
I'd sign up to be on that project team in a heartbeat. |
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| It also depends on the resistance (weight) of the lure. A greater resistance from that end will cause increased internal friction in the reel, thus limiting your speed and increasing the force required to turn the handle.
I can say this for sure:
a 975 with the handle in the "long" setting is perfectly capable of retrieving cowgirls at a rate of speed that causes them to break the surface, with the added benefit of eliminating angler fatigue, which to me is way more important than an extra bit of retrieve speed. |
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Location: Stevens Point, Wi. | Let's not forget the friction coefficience of the various brands of line, line diameter, and guide types. |
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Location: Hayward, WI | ghoti - 9/27/2007 2:53 PM
Let's not forget the friction coefficience of the various brands of line, line diameter, and guide types. :)
Not to mention whether the angler had a bowl of Wheaties or a Twinkie for breakfast.
curleytail |
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| now now now fellas..i agree putting the handle farther out / longer will make it "easier" to bring in, i have tried such experiment with the 975 which I have been telling all you clowns to buy for 3 years and some are finally listening..anyway, it does make it "easier" to bring in but I am 100% sure i can reel it faster on the other setting...your hand has to travel a much larger distance around to make one crank on the outer setting..so, i tried it, felt it was too much to really burn, went back to the inner setting and voila....good to go again...baldy, i'd like to take that bet....double 10 vs double 10..i bet i can make mine go faster!
; )
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Location: Hayward, WI | In all seriousness, I bet some of this long/short handle debate depends on the angler. Somebody that fishes every day and burns double 10's all day might have the wrist/forearm strength and endurance to burn them all day on a standard length handle. If they have the power and endurance to do it, they can probably burn a bait faster with a shorter handle.
If you are looking at a guy that fishes 6 or 8 times a year, and doesn't usually use hard pulling baits, a short handle will probably wear him out in a hurry, and will slow him down pretty quick.
That's just my opinion.
curleytail |
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| bn - 9/27/2007 6:07 PM
now now now fellas..i agree putting the handle farther out / longer will make it "easier" to bring in, i have tried such experiment with the 975 which I have been telling all you clowns to buy for 3 years and some are finally listening..anyway, it does make it "easier" to bring in but I am 100% sure i can reel it faster on the other setting...your hand has to travel a much larger distance around to make one crank on the outer setting..so, i tried it, felt it was too much to really burn, went back to the inner setting and voila....good to go again...baldy, i'd like to take that bet....double 10 vs double 10..i bet i can make mine go faster!
; )
i'll smoke ya... |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | ROFLMAO- I'm surprised no one brought up Kirchhoff's Laws or Maxwell's equations. However since Sled dropped in this seems to be leaning toward that other Maxwell, i.e., Maxwell Smart!
Al |
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| Baldy have you seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen my pipes???!!! 
yer goin dowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | awwwweeeee maaaaaaaannnnnn, tell me you're not gonna post a picture of your pipes .....
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| the file would be too big! ahahahahaahahahhaaaa |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | touche' |
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Location: Nebraska | As far as the handle and the 7000, I don't have a problem with the retrieve on a double 10, is the large, fast figure 8 that I try to do that kicks my hiney. |
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Posts: 440
| Well the Gator Grip on the 7000i was a touch harder to crank double 10's but much more comfortable "to me". After an hour or so the thought of being harder totally left my mind and forearm. I think the benifits of having the shorter double paddle handle are going to way outrun the short falls and make a very versatile reel out of a one trick pony. At least for me.
Gonna be hard to outrun that 975, one mean ole reel there. LOL
Please post the video after contest is over. Thank you. |
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Handle types....Engineer type ?