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Location: Racine, Wi | So the way my GPS is rigged now, is through a switch on the boat. Apparently one of the wires that they hooked this up with (I think the negative, as the positive is running to the battery direct I think) keeps coming off I think. (the GPS is currently not functioning and it's a wire problem, not a problem with the unit.
My question is, if I run the negative straight to the starting battery, is that going to cause any problems with the unit? Do I have to ground any of the wires? Do I need a fuse in the mix? (I think there is already an inline fuse running to the positive wire).
Thanks guys. I have to get it back up and running quick again and I don't want to mess with the dealer any more. |
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Posts: 395
Location: NW WI | Find any ground, whether it's to the battery or off the radio or any other electrical item and you'll be fine. As long as your + is fused you will be safe.
I had my GPS going right to the battery because I didn't want it going on and off with the key. |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | No! Hook it direct as long as it has an inline fuse to protect the wires.... Usually the fuse is in the positive lead (+) . LOL- when folks talk about ground in boats.... It's like ground in a automobile- not really there-just an old urban legend term. Many old cars had a positive ground!
It's not really good to connect it to just any old place, i.e., at other devices other than the battery itself.
Just don't forget to turn it off or disconnect it when you're done fishing. If not you'll find out why, i.e., you will have A VERY dead battery!
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 9/21/2007 6:45 PM
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| Run the wire directly to the battery. If the Pos(+)/Red lead has an inline fuse, you are good to go. This is for the head unit, right? Network power to the GPS should be switched, and can also run to the battery. |
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Posts: 395
Location: NW WI | ESOX Maniac - 9/21/2007 6:39 PM
No! Hook it direct as long as it has an inline fuse to protect the wires.... Usually the fuse is in the positive lead (+) . LOL- when folks talk about ground in boats.... It's like ground in a automobile- not really there-just an old urban legend term. Many old cars had a positive ground!
It's not really good to connect it to just any old place, i.e., at other devices other than the battery itself.
Just don't forget to turn it off or disconnect it when you're done fishing. If not you'll find out why, i.e., you will have A VERY dead battery!
Have fun!
Al
I said that he should have an inline fuse to protect the positive (+) wire. Are you saying you should run wires all the way from the GPS unit to the battery? If so, that's ludicrous.
Under dash there should be a terminal block(s) that have always on and switched power. Hooking there is more than enough...again...use an inline fuse. Find any negative and you'll be fine.
If you're having trouble finding a block...a GPS pulls so little power that tapping into an existing hot wire will be OK....use an inline fuse.
But what do I know...I used to do this stuff for a living....... |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | No, I was answering his question, not your's. I didn't say he should hook it direct without a fuse! " No! Hook it direct as long as it has an inline fuse to protect the wires" . I stand by what I said about tapping into another circuit. Why? Because, I have yet to meet an electrical engineer or a psuedo electrical engineer that could prove Gustav Kirchhoff wrong! I still do this for a living and have been doing so for ~ 40 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_Kirchhoff
The problem peculiar to tapping into an existing electrical circuit is that there is already a current flow and a corresponding voltage drop associated with the existing load in the loop impedance, i.e., because of the total circuit impedance.
F. ex. the battery may be at 12.7VDC. Yet at the point of the tap it could be much lower, or even a pulsing DC. This all depends on the physics of the circuit and the other load's/loads time-current characteristics. It's probably why he's having a problem now! Then guy's wonder why they get interference in their high tech equipment? Go figure! Believe me- cascaded circuits, i.e., what you are advocating don't work well with powering modern electronic equipment. That is equally true of either AC or DC circuits.
Al
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Location: Racine, Wi | Sheesh, I think I lost you guys. I'm definitely not an electrical engineer. I'm just a dad, wannabe part time fishing guide  and well, I'm sure a few other things my wife calls me.
Right now I think the positive goes back to the battery with an inline fuse. (from what I can tell). The negative comes from a switch on the console (crestliner fish hawk) and runs to a fuse type box under the console. For some reason, it won't turn on. I know the fuse is okay, and when I looked at the wires, it appeared that everything was connected okay, so I'm not sure what the issue is. Perhaps the positive wire has some crust on it so it's not getting any juice? I have monkeyed with the battery connection to no avail, but maybe I should try again. Otherwise I may try to run it right back to the battery. I'll read through your responses again when I get home and can look at it to see if that helps, but it's killing me not having a GPS right now and I don't have the time to take it to the shop. DOH! |
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| Ifishskis - 9/27/2007 4:19 PM
I said that he should have an inline fuse to protect the positive (+) wire. Are you saying you should run wires all the way from the GPS unit to the battery? If so, that's ludicrous.
Under dash there should be a terminal block(s) that have always on and switched power. Hooking there is more than enough...again...use an inline fuse. Find any negative and you'll be fine.
If you're having trouble finding a block...a GPS pulls so little power that tapping into an existing hot wire will be OK....use an inline fuse.
But what do I know...I used to do this stuff for a living.......
Calling what Al and I both suggest ludicrous is probably why you "Used" to do this stuff for a living. Somebody is having a problem, we try to help, and you call our suggestions ludicrous?
Connecting direct to the battery has been, and will continue to be, the recommended way to power your sonar and GPS head units. Mostly to prevent interference from accesories like livewell pumps, bilge pumps, stereo's and marine radioes, but also to ensure you have the most voltage available from the battery. A voltage drop of .5 volts can cause issues. It is acceptable to power the NMEA2000 Network from a switched power source from the console.
I'm an electrical Engineer, and have been since 1982. I stand by what I say.
Joel, you going to be in the area or on the way up north one of these days? Stop by, and we'll get that thing fixed up.
Edited by Shep 9/28/2007 8:44 AM
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Tuffy- Here's a SWAG for you! Usually a fused terminal block is at + battery potential. If the red lead (+) is connected directly to the positive battery (+) and the negative lead is connected to the fused terminal block they are both most likely at the same potential, i.e., there is no voltage going to the GPS unit.
To simplify this a bit- it's the same as connecting both leads directly to the positive battery terminal. It shouldn't have damaged anything- you just don't get any voltage or power.
Carefully disconnect both leads, wherever they go. Is there a inline fuse in the positive lead? If so, connect the positive lead (+) directly to the positive battery terminal (+) and the negative lead (-) directly to the negative battery terminal (-). Now turn it on!
If you're going to the Presque Isle outing at the end of the month, I'll take a shot at fixing it so it's switched if that's what you want.
Edited by ESOX Maniac 9/28/2007 9:03 AM
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Joel, grab one of the cheap 12 v tester pens at your local auto parts store, ground the clip part to a known ground (test it to be sure by touching the pen part to the + battery terminal) then touch it to your positive wire. It should light up. If not, your + wire is at fault.
If that tests OK, clip the negative clip on the pen to your "ground" wire and touch the pen part to your + battery teminal. If it does not light up, then your ground is defective. Should be about 5 bucks for the pen, a great investment for later projects like trailer lights. good luck, m |
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Location: NW WI | Shep - 9/28/2007 8:43 AM
Ifishskis - 9/27/2007 4:19 PM
I said that he should have an inline fuse to protect the positive (+) wire. Are you saying you should run wires all the way from the GPS unit to the battery? If so, that's ludicrous.
Under dash there should be a terminal block(s) that have always on and switched power. Hooking there is more than enough...again...use an inline fuse. Find any negative and you'll be fine.
If you're having trouble finding a block...a GPS pulls so little power that tapping into an existing hot wire will be OK....use an inline fuse.
But what do I know...I used to do this stuff for a living.......
Calling what Al and I both suggest ludicrous is probably why you "Used" to do this stuff for a living. Somebody is having a problem, we try to help, and you call our suggestions ludicrous?
Connecting direct to the battery has been, and will continue to be, the recommended way to power your sonar and GPS head units. Mostly to prevent interference from accesories like livewell pumps, bilge pumps, stereo's and marine radioes, but also to ensure you have the most voltage available from the battery. A voltage drop of .5 volts can cause issues. It is acceptable to power the NMEA2000 Network from a switched power source from the console.
I'm an electrical Engineer, and have been since 1982. I stand by what I say.
Joel, you going to be in the area or on the way up north one of these days? Stop by, and we'll get that thing fixed up.
I won't digress like you did Shep...you're just another "internet expert" and a current electrical engineer, so I'll sign off of this one. Go design some industrial power grids will ya?
And I stand by what I said. |
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| Oooh, you got me on that one. |
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Location: Madtown, WI | I am not an eletrician, but I play one on TV.
Just a note....if you have one of the newer Lowrances you have two power sources going to your unit. The main power and the network power that runs the GPS puck. Just a side note on the GPS puck/network power. Lowrance suggests you switch that power source since the puck will continuiously pull juice and could drain your batteries if you store it for a while that way....I know Shep touched on this before but not as to WHY to switch it.
sounds like its your main power your having problems with.
Cory |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Cory- Shep not to up on the Lowrance stuff. But I just don't get why the GPS antenna would always draw power. Maybe we can talk aboout that one over a brew? Anyhow!
Hey Tuffy- If what I suggested previously works, i.e., hooking direct to the battery.. Try hooking the negative lead directly to the battery negative terminal and connecting the positive lead to the switch, i.e., where the negative lead was previously attached. Now you should be able to use the switch to disconnect the power.
Good luck.
Al |
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Location: Racine, Wi | Thanks again for all the help guys. Gonna try to fix 'er tonight. |
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Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | Joel, just suck on the power cord that connects to the unit. If YOUR unit sticks straight out, there is power. LOL
I have an external antennae on my 3300C with a switch to turn off the power to the puck. Unit works great as long as I remember to flip the puck switch.
Wire the sucker straight back to the battery and bypass all of the potential trouble. If it then does not work, sell the boat and buy a new one.
I am sure that your wife has a bunch of names for you Joel. In a month or two it will be "Stud Muffin" again.
Chuck |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Joel- What happened? Are you back in the world of those w/ a operational GPS? |
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Location: Racine, Wi | Al, Jim offered to help me via phone, but I've been reeeeaaallly busy the past weekend into this week. (guiding and baby on the way), so the project is on hold. I have a shopping list and am working from home next week, so I'll have a lot more time (so I think) to do this. I think it should be easy to just run new wires from the unit to the battery. Stay tuned. |
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Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | Hey Stud Muffin, did you suck on the power cord to check on the power?
That is on the order of sticking a 9v to your tongue, but amplified just a bit. |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Yeah Joel- Chuck has it right- who needs a freakin' voltage tester. To ensure 100% accurate response, preceed the test with a shot of Jose' followed by lime & salt.
Al |
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Location: Racine, Wi | LOL, you know, I'd be likely to do that.
I did find a voltage tester at home. The battery I found out, does have power. heh heh heh. Now trying to figure out how to check the negative connection that goes from the GPS to the switch on the console. Neeeeed Mooooore Tiiiimeeeee. |
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Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | Al, don't let the Muffin Man kid you. Did you ever see the movie "Down Periscope" with Kelsey Grammer. There is a guy on there holding wires together with his toes and licked fingers to get a conection for a radio. That is what I see Joel doing. LOL
I don't know if he is man enough to do it though. Then again, he will be a dad again in a couple days so he has to have some kind of man thing going.
Heck, he needs to get a tatoo like Lt Commander Dodge from the movie. It says "Welcome Aboard" on a certain part of the male anatomy. I think I am going to get one. LOL
CONGRATULATIONS EARLY MAN!!!! I am VERY HAPPY for you and your family. I know you are one proud papa. |
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Location: Racine, Wi | Good news kids. I just got done rewiring my GPS and it WORKED!!!! It took all of about 5 mins to do. I rigged it up and attached it to the battery and all is good. Now I just have to run the wires under everything back to the battery. That is going to be a pain.
Thanks for all the help, and Jim, thanks for the list of stuff to get. Made it simple as can be. Ahhh, now I can breath again. It was wierd having to fish without a GPS after using it for so long. |
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| I did my own, and I'm electrically dumb. I just hooked it up to the Johnny Ray mounts that I have on one of my trolling motor batteries. All my locators have an in-line fuse on the positive, and nothing on the negative and they attach to the Johnny Ray with small screws. I had one extra switch on the dash of my boat where the aerator, bildge....etc are wired, but I woulld have had to pull out a lot of stuff that I wasn't comfortable dealing with, so I fished the wires out of my electronics compartment...I have a tiller....and 2 screws did it all.
I read the directions first.....now a big beer can fell on me! |
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Wiring GPS directly to starting battery