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Posts: 65
Location: De Pere Wisconsin | I have been looking to get into a new boat for a year now, and currently have an Esox mag, which I absolutely love, but would really like to fish Green Bay, Door County more often and not just when conditions are perfect. I typically go up north to Eagle River most weekends. I had been almost 100% convinced I would be buying a 1760 but am struggling between the tiller and console and preferred dealers not having the motor choices I would like etc etc. I MUCH prefer a tiller boat, and really want a Yamaha with the vts tiller feature.
So Sunday my wife says while I am babbling to myself while we're fishing " what about a Ranger?" - What! , no way... I couldn't, I mean they are way overpriced and I don't have one of those shirts ;-).
So we stopped and looked at a 618 tiller which I have happened across a few times online in a moment of weakness, but had not touched one yet. Always thought they looked just about right size wise etc.
I was BLOWN away by so many things on that boat - fit and finish being the top thing. My wife made several comments about many things, which she doesn't usually notice and was pretty excited also.
I am mainly wondering from owners or those who have fished in these boats how they launch and load in crappy landing conditions common in area's like Vilas county etc. I am pretty confident in the hulls rough water abilities on the big waters, but just wanted to hear about there ease of use on those rough landings. |
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| Well, I wont sign in for this one cause I dont want to get Steve or Zach mad at me. Myself and family member have two boats, 07' Ranger 619vs and an 06' 2060 Osprey. As a Tuffy owner since 1989 I have to say the Rangers are really something. Both great boats but amenities, storage, finish, electrical system, hull strengths in the Ranger are worth the extra for me. Not one complaint about the Tuffy in rough water though. It parallels the Ranger. Ranger seems to want a little bit more water to unload I think cause of additional weight but centers much better on the trailer so loads a lot better regardless of water depth and speed entering trailer. I like the price point on the Tuffy, love the additional quality of the Ranger. I think Tuffy seems younger in the multi species market and getting better cause every few years I see leaps and bounds as to the minor tweak of a Ranger every once and while. Cant go wrong either way and dont spend the extra if it is for once/twice annually. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I am running a 690 Tiller(a bit deeper than the 618 tiller I believe), and was surprised at the overall ease of on-off at some of the landings I use. Granted, with the shallow nature of alot of the landings this year, my old flat bottom(poor mans esox mag) has been the choice, but by and large, most places that I get it on and off, I can also get the Ranger in/out. Just becareful when and if power loading in some of these areas. Your motor will be considerably deeper now.
Edited by Reef Hawg 9/7/2007 8:20 PM
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| Tuffy X190 - to be unveiled at the Tuffy shindig in 2 weeks, rumored to be the ultimate muskie boat. |
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Posts: 65
Location: De Pere Wisconsin | davidd - 9/7/2007 1:54 PM
I am mainly wondering from owners or those who have fished in these boats how they launch and load in crappy landing conditions common in area's like Vilas county etc. I am pretty confident in the hulls rough water abilities on the big waters, but just wanted to hear about there ease of use on those rough landings.
Please don't hi-jack the thread as I am really interested in some good info - Thanks! |
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| not hijacking, just passing along some info I heard from someone today that I thought you might want to research, from the sound of it it may fit what you are looking for as some others have done here. As far as the 1760, I fished in a friend's 1760 dc a couple times and it seemed to launch pretty well on the crappy landing we used, and handles the waves great as you mentioned, it had an older 150 johnson on it. Never fished in a 618. I believe the 1760 is a little shorter, a bit deeper and a little wider. Layouts are completely different hope this helps. |
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Posts: 32935
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The electrical system in the Tuffy is digital, and every wire is labeled. The Ranger electrical isn't as advanced. The laminate schedule on a Tuffy Deep V is just as strong if not stronger. Tuffy made big strides in '07 and 08 with new consoles, electrical, seats, interior amenities, and more, so compare, ride, look at everything, and enjoy which ever rig you decide on. No one here is 'mad' at anyone for talking about the boats they want to compare, it's what MuskieFIRST is for.
Compare the room in an 1890 T and the 618T. The 1760 is a smaller boat, and has the same interior room, so compare the 18' ranger to the 18' Tuffy.
Ranger always has built a nice boat. Compare the amenities in the new '08 Tuffy and decide.
X190, eh? Hmmmmmm....
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Posts: 65
Location: De Pere Wisconsin | I am on my second Tuffy - love the boat. For me it has been difficult to be able to compare apples to apples quite honestly. There are so many things included in the "pricing" of the Ranger that are options on the Tuffy. Also comparing brand to brand is just hard no matter what business it is....I tell you what I like - you tell me what's better about your brand.
I really like the Tuffy 1760 tiller (REALLY like it). The 618 is at the max of my comfort range size wise - the 1890 while a beauty, is just a hair big for me. I really like the Yamaha motors with the vts - and find the merc tiller handle a little archaic ( I know there is a new tiller handle coming - I have seen a pic, but it is a ways out it seems). A dealer being able to sell me what I want is either 45 minutes away and I would be waiting a while (mercury tiller) or 2 plus hours away to get a yammy....so the 5 minute drive to the Ranger place is also part of the equation.
Bottom line is that it really isn't about a few dollars here or there - if I was a tightwad I would be looking at something a little cheaper...like shore fishing 
Anybody else got any feedback on the 618 and its trailering and launching manners? (thanks for your input Reef). |
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| I bought a 618t 2 years ago with a shallow launch trailer works great for those shallow accesses |
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| hey dave,
i launched my 1760 tiller last fall on a landing where my partner was standing next to the boat in rubber boots that only came up to his mid-calf. my understanding is that the hull is slightly deeper than the 618, so i doubt you'd have any trouble with that boat either.
that being said, after talking to you a number of times over the past year, my advice would be to be patient. you've talked about how much you've liked your last two Tuffy boats and that you wish you'd bought mine last fall. if what you really want is a 1760 tiller, it's worth the little bit of an extra drive (2 hours is not very far) to get one with the Yammy.
also, i had the same thoughts you did about the 1890 being a "big" boat. after running it this year it's a great combo of big water safety (you do live on Green Bay) and still being pretty nimble. don't overlook the 1890 GT. Jeff Hanson has one down here in Madison and that's one cool boat.
give me a call when you get a chance, i've got one other idea to float your way.
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| Having owned both Tuffy's and Ranger's, (currently in a 618vs and lovin' it) I think you can make Red Apples to Green Apples comparisons on them. Yes...I think today's Tuffy's are that close in many ways.
That being said... for Musky fishing I prefer the side tank style of boats. I.e. the pre-2005 Tuffy's and the current 618'T and VS. If I were to choose a tiller model I would try to find a clean used 1760 with the side-tank layout.
1760 hull launches super easy in shallow water, will handle all of the water you mentioned with safety and smooth ride and has more than adequate storage. And... it won't break the bank. You could probably find a good clean 1760 in that style for less than $14k.
Only thing I don't care for in the current 618t's is the lack of rear deck or being able to fabricate one with ease. Nice rig...huge storage compartments but for me I like front and rear casting decks. That is something you get with Tuffy's current or past layouts.
Keep an eye on MuskieFIRST and Walleye Central Classifieds and you'll find nice deals on clean, used, affordable tillers.
best,
Mark
Musky Adventures |
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Location: Contrarian Island | with the "shallow launch" feature on the trailer you should be able to get into just about any sketchy landings in vilas area imo....
618t's are a great overall boat...ranger could build that in a console and have a much better boat for just about all situations than the current 618 console |
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Posts: 65
Location: De Pere Wisconsin | Mike, just got home from the "weekend", will give you a shout this week.
Thanks for the responses everyone. I did see a 1700 not that long ago on this site with the tanks like the Esox Mag's have, and I have to agree that the older design is more appealing to me, I love the interior layout in the mag. I would have no issues with the current design however and fished out of Lambeau's boat for a morning this spring and fished from the back the way that I prefer and it worked very well. |
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Brad they do build the 618 in a multi it is 1860 angler, I really hadn't seen the boat till last weekend at herbies. Pretty simple clean fishing machine, he has had no complaints with it, running it on eagle everyday you know she will handle the big water. He said they ride was extremely dry. Has peeked my interest.
Troyz |
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Location: Contrarian Island | the 1860 hull is not the same as the 618 tiller hull..(I looked at them quite a bit when I was in the market last year) ..the 1860 Angler hull is the same as the Reatta...at 18'6" x 98"...the 618 tiller hull is 18'4" x 90"
I know boat builders have been building boats wider and wider the last few years but why the need for a beam at almost 100" wide...? sure they are stable but imo a wider boat catches more of the waves in the rough stuff and can make cutting thru waves harder...maybe not..if Ranger built an updated 690 I bet they'd get some takers...they still have the mold!! build it or put a console set back in the 618 tiller hull with a 150 and that would be a sweet ride...imo
I agree though...an 1860 with a 175 would be a nice ride...I just think the hulls of an 07 619 would cut thru waves a bit better...but for the money an 1860 Angler would be a nice rig..with a tandem trailer..not sure why they show it on the website with single axle for boat that big with that motor...but anyway
Edited by MSKY HNR 9/12/2007 3:01 PM
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| MSKY HNR makes a great point about a lot of boats out there being too wide...
Also, Tuffy's 1890 is exactly half-way between the 618T and the 619 in length (18'4", 18'11", and 19'6", respectively). You really can't compare the three boats because each of the hulls is quite different.
Hard to argue that the fit and finish of the Ranger isn't the best out there. But there are a lot of good boats, too. Consider the style of fishing you do first and foremost. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | One beef with the Ranger Tiller boats is that there is no rear casting deck. I usedf to complain to deaf ears, and finally realized if I wanted my 'perfect' rig I'd have to to build one myself(pain in the butt), and it seems best of both worlds now.
Edited by Reef Hawg 9/13/2007 5:07 PM
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Posts: 65
Location: De Pere Wisconsin | Very cool. Everytime I hear people complain about decks I wonder why they don't do what you did. I have some friends who are handy and I am not at all leary of the 618's lack of rear deck, for just the reason your pics show. The boat's are a little different but essentially the idea is the same.
I figured if I buy a 618 I would possibly put a 1-1.5' "extension" along side the port side running along the livewell for 2-3 feet, making the side tank much more appealing to stand on.
Dude, those are some serious speakers! |
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Posts: 65
Location: De Pere Wisconsin | O.K. Whats an X190....
I am getting very close to making a decision (lowered interest rates this week with a promotion).
If I should look at this boat (X190) it would be nice if the specs and a photo or two were posted ....right now it seems only exist on this post as some sort of mythical wonder
lenght?
beam?
tiller and console available?
HP ratings?
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| 19'0" length
90" beam
200 HP Console 90 hp Tiller
DS, C and T versions
This is all I can show you right now, can post some more images this weekend.
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Location: Contrarian Island | 90 on a 19 foot glass boat? neat, another underpowered Tuffy.... 
teasin...zap....
Go with the Ranger DavidD....you won't regret it...
Edited by MSKY HNR 9/13/2007 9:38 PM
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| It will outrun and outperform the 618 with the same horsepower. Boats under 20 feet in length are subject to a little something called horsepower ratings. Which Tuffy Boat in particular are you claiming to be underpowered ?
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| For comparison purposes, the 90 HP Optimax-powered 1890T planed out and running beautifully. Heavier, deeper, and wider than the X190; propping, lift and hull design all play an important role in how a boat runs within certain HP ranges. Rangers, Tritons, Tuffys, etc, the best bet is always to get in these boats and run them if you have the opportunity.
BTW, no offense whatsoever taken to your previous post MSKY HNR, evreyone has the right to be proud of their brand, and give good natured ribbing to the others, all in good fun.
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Posts: 32935
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Looking forward to putting the new X190 through her paces. I've been looking very much forward to this boat design from Tuffy; this is going to be the perfect boat for my use on big water and small. I'll be powering mine with a buck and a half.
Look for much more on this rig over the next few days. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Hey Reefer...I think we need to add some 8" subs to our systems...that is a sweet back deck....
nice work..
690s rule. |
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Posts: 24
| Hey Dave, Give me a call, I have seen the new boat. Lets talk.
Denny
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Location: Contrarian Island | David, also something to consider is how long you plan to keep the boat ... Rangers sure seem to hold their value over many other glass boats and seem to sell quite a bit faster when a good clean one comes up for sale over the other glass boats...I've watched the classifieds on many boards for a few years now...Rangers seem to sell fast, others have to lower their asking price at times to sell by even a few thousand dollars...a recent 2000 Ranger 690 with zero electronics just sold for 20k even...what would another manufacturers 7 yr old boat sell for? Sure the price of a new boat is something to look at but also how much will you get for it down the road when you do sell it...my 2 cents... |
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| The resale myth is another tactic many Ranger owners use to justify their purchase. No boat takes a greater hit over the first several years than Ranger. I can quote similar instances to the one you just referenced for any other brand, an uninformed buyer getting hosed on a used boat doesn't equal good resale. Truth is, well cared-for used boats bring a good dollar, regardless of brand, and the market isn't literally flooded with them. Some just cost a whole lot more to begin with. |
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Posts: 65
Location: De Pere Wisconsin | Hey Denny, I will give you a call when no one is around (the wife ). It seems as though I am working when I sit so diligently at my computer!
Brad - I hear ya, I am hoping that after trying several types and styles of boats myself and having ridden in a good many others as well I realize that I need to realistically be in a good all around boat. I like the lower hp motors from a cost and consumption standpoint, I don't fish tournaments and love tiller boats generally.
I also fish water in size ranges from as little as 200 acres to the Great Lakes...that is a tall order. I hope to keep the next boat until I no longer feel that it is reliable...10-15 years perhaps. I want to be close to retirement when the next rig is being shopped for. While cost is always an issue, I have for the reasons you stated (resale) and the actual "value" been impressed with the Rangers. Nice boats for the money...which if you chew on for a while probably pertains to almost everything out there. You get what you pay for. Got a soft spot for the Tuffy's too though, we'll see.... |
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Posts: 32935
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Resale on the Tuffy brand is excellent and has been. I know a fellow who sold his 1979 Marauder last year for more than it sold for new. So it's up to the buyer to look for value, I'd say. Lund, Tuffy, Ranger, Alumacraft, etc...all have good resale.
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Posts: 24
| When it comes down to it, Really, if you are buying a boat based on its resale value, you are buying a boat for all the wrong reasons. You need to buy the boat that best suits you, your style, your likes, your family needs, and beyond all others, it has to make you say, everytime you get in it, MAN, I AM THE LUCKIEST GUY ON EARTH!! I just love fishing from this boat and I did not even think about work while I was out in it today. If it does that for you, it will do it for the next guy as well and your RESALE VALUE WILL BE REALIZED!! Just think about that. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | that may be Stacker but what about say someone who buys a used boat and knows they are gonna sell it in a year or 2...even if they LOVE it don't you think one thing to consider is how easy it will be to sell in a years time? maybe some think that way, some don't...but it is something to consider...anyone who has ever tried to sell a boat or other toy only having to drop the price a ton to sell it probably doesn't remember all those days they were in la la land but how much they had to bite the bullet when it came time to sell...i recently sold a ski boat that I bought 6 yrs ago and only "lost" 2500 from when I bought it...happiest days in a boat owners life are the day they buy it and the day they sell it...
Edited by MSKY HNR 9/14/2007 12:18 PM
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Posts: 65
Location: De Pere Wisconsin | What many people fail to realize is that depreciation eventually becomes the reverse if a product is held onto long enough and taken care of. A 30% hit when you tow the boat off the lot and then 10% a year after is about what I see when I look at boats...plus the loss on electronics.
Anything almost 30 years old will sell for more than new is my guess if it is still operating and in better than could be expected condition for it's age.
The average retail paying boat buyer (me) is crazy to sell a new boat after 1-3 years...but I have done it. Looking at what boats are selling for when they are 3-8 years old seems to be a real judge of what the value retention is. I can't say I have been really watching any one brand in that age range...I have been shocked at how high the price was on some older 680/681/690 Ranger's that sold ....but there isn't anywhere near the number of Tuffy's to compare it too.
So at one year a 20k boat is worth - 14000 cost of 6000 per year
two years -12600 cost of 3700 per year
3 years -11340 cost of 2886 per year
4 years -10340 cost of 2415 per year
5 years -9306 cost of 2138 per year
10 years -5495 cost of 1450 per year,
I don't think a well taken care of 10 year Tuffy or Ranger would sell that low after 10 years, so the cost per year will be much lower....this is why I want to buy the right boat and hold onto it. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Brad, take a look at the resale on Rangers over at the "other walleye website" and tell me how great Ranger is compared to other boats. A new 620 with the trimmings is around 55k. A one year old one is around $40. That's about the same % as other mfg's. Take a Triton 202 where the retail is around $42k and the resale is around $35k. The Ranger depreciated around 25% and the Triton around 16%. Granted you can play around with the "deal" you paid, but the depreciation line is pretty constant for every boat. Now when you figure in how much more some other brands cost (new) you also have to figure additional costs for increased sales tax, interest and insurance. The price isn't always the price.
As far as your 690 goes, you already bought towards the bottom of the depreciation bell curve. It's 3-4 body styles out and it was popular among certain circles. Ranger also doubled their price for a new rig too which also helps in the old used boat market.
I'm not taking anything away from your rig or Rangers in general. I'm just sick of people spouting the company line without using their heads and doing the math. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | no I agree Treats they all depreciate about the same...the hit on new boats the first year is huge...that is a fact..
maybe there is just more interest/desire to own a Ranger because it sure seems to me that Rangers sell way faster on used boat sites (including this one) than other glass boats...but you are right...they all depreciate roughly the same...I still say Ranger boats are the best fishing boat (though I did take a good look at the Tritons) made and I would have said the exact same thing 2 yrs ago when I had a Lund and dreamed of being in a Ranger...all boats are nice, just pick the one you like the most...and that can fit in your garage!
Edited by MSKY HNR 9/14/2007 12:44 PM
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Posts: 32935
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'Seems to me' all the brands of used glass boats sell pretty well on this site and others; I haven't seen any one brand that does or doesn't sell well overall. Some models of some brands are tougher to sell than others even of the same brand, because of where the model fits out there in the world of the muskie/walleye/multispecie/panfish whatever angler.
One thing for sure, used boat sales in general are down from past years for ALL brands. |
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| Lots of good info here.
Remember there is only one "Ranger Family" and you need to have a Ranger to get in. LOL
I have both an Older Ranger (1998) and a older Tuffy (1990) both still great boats. Ride them all, buy the one you like and can afford. You are paying for it not all of us guys telling you what to buy.
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | and then there is Champion .... LOL, i'd rather have one of them than anything, a shame the leader of the company that made the best boat was a crook ... who knows what boats would be today with that company still in the game. they defined fit and finish ... |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Thanks Brad but main thing is the dude in back likes it(often me..). Like it even more with grey on the back now too.
Edited by Reef Hawg 9/14/2007 9:42 PM
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | DUDE, YOU'RE FISHING IN THE FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH!!!!!!
Let me guess, only fingerlings in that lake... |
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